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Old 10-27-2008, 02:09 PM   #61

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 26

Splatrat wrote:


2 piece bonus rocks, no touchie unless you move it to a single piece as focus...

4 piece bonus is a useless bunch of junk. A focus on Distortion or Absolution in line with the wizard equivalent might be worth looking into?

6 piece bonus isn't even considered since 1) most encounters don't live long enough for it to be useful 2) even if point 1 wouldn't be, the gain from it ain't big enough to cover the loss from using pieces from the set instead of better armour pieces. For some reason I don't believe that you'll be able to come up with something that is worth dropping enough other pieces for...

Robe focus is weak and the reuse bonus does not make it worth using for anything but appearance slot.

Leggings focus would be nice if there had been enough AE-content. But as the word goes, I guess it could stay for TSO. However, the hate reduction is quite... meh... We have a hate position decreaser on our mythical, we get a new hate pos. decreasing spell in the aa-lines, and are close enough to cap with just a troub and if needed, you could always get a hatedecreaser from a coercer to cap it. Something useful like +crit dmg, cast haste or maybe a free pizza every 10:th order would be cool...

Oh, and last but not the least... Don't leave us with a crappy piece where a legendary drop from a soloable mob - at least for some classes - is the best option (i.e. Warlock Shoulders vs. Symbol of the Eaten in RoK).



 I'd have to agree with every single thing said by Splat -- he's right on the money.

In summary


2 piece set bonus, Leg Focus (although it is painful to loose 125 spell damage from fatalis leggings), Helm stats, Booties stats,

Not so good

lava sleeves > vp set sleeves,

4 piece bonus maybe switch to making netherbeast an actual beast! SMILEY, add traks gaze to SPlat's list, like to see a bump to acid SMILEY or even cat for true blue.,

if there was one thing to pick, I'd pick the robe, reuse time doesn't have a huge impact to dps compared to even jarsath robe.  Spell haste is huge, or some cool hostile spell triggered proc damage. Dark Power really blows this robe out of the water, haste is huge to us, it would be nice to see that kind of bonus on the vp chest for us,

shoulder stats, love to see some compeditive spell dmg/crit on them so we would bump out symbol of the eaten,

6 piece set bonus would be nice to see a bump to gift of bert or netherrealm (timer length, trigger length, damage, anything)

also having + disruption on all pieces would be nice.  Having a focus bonus on a vp set considering the mob damage is tough to see benefit from.  We are dead most of the times we have the mobs attention, or even then, under the circumstance of being able to finish a spell, that finish is usually no where near an outcome changer of a fight based on our role (DoT/DD).


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Old 10-27-2008, 02:21 PM   #62

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Mahgnus wrote:

Paladin set

The good

2 set bonusA reduction on the recast time to our large single target nuke that is usually around 3-5 % of our zw is a great 2 set bonus. This spell in the x-pac will go from number 6 on Paladins spell/ca efficiency chart to number 1. I cannot stress enough how great of a 2 set this is and I hope to see on our new set gear.

4 set bonus This is a fantastic set bonus and it insures all Paladins will wear there 4 set bonus. Finally a step in the right direction to adress our reliance on multiple crits/da's.

The bad

6 set bonusJust as most classes don't wear there 6 set bonus b/c it simply doesnt make up the lost stats (IE crit/da etc). 30 seconds off of Holy Ground is very meh to beguin with, not to mention If we where to get some sort of aa's to reduce it in the future this would be 100% useless =p. the only time a Paladin would even want to wear this would be on extreme mem wipe mobs. Even then most do not wear it for Avatar of Justice (thats about as extreme as you can get) b/c it simply just isnt worth the amount of stats you lose.

A SuggestionMake the set bonus somethin that makes you say woe! An effect that isnt normally buffed by regualr gear. Somethin along the lines of say base auto attack damage by 10-15% or When all 6 pieces you gain a small Stoneskin proc (5% chance) and chance to proc a reactive heal. Maybe even somethin along the lines of Makes Caster immune to Fear, Stun and Stifle effects while 6 pieces are worn. This prehaps? When 6 pieces are worn  it grants 25% increase to base damage of Call of Redemption and also adds a secondary effect of 20% increased damage to all procs in the Paladins group with 10% reuse to the group.  Sure some of those suggested are over powered as hell but in order for any classes to wear all 6 Pieces, the effect has to be pretty darn nice to make up for the lost effects of other gear.

BP FocusAt the moment it's 2 mins off of lay on hands. Now say if for w/e reason yall decided to make lower the recast from 15 mins to 5 mins, 2 mins off wouldnt be bad at all considering it nearly caps out the recast. However thats only if you guys where to make it a 5 min recast =p. As it stand now 2 mins off a 15 second ability is just a slap in the face. Somethin on the order of 30 seconds off of Holy Strike or 30% increase damage to Refusal of Conviction would be much more fitting or even 25% increase to the heal amount of Lay on Hands.

Legs FocusAtm 6% increase chance to proc Call of Redemption. This spell proc is so small it nets less then 1% of my and group members zone wide. This is a terrible effect to place on a Leg/BP item. A Suggestion increase the damage of the proc by 50% or give it some small added bonus (5% reuse or somethin along those lines) if your hell bent on keepin this a focus being it has been used on both EoF and RoK Paladins set bonuses. Another focus that could go on either Legs or BP is 25% increase to the amount Prayer.

Also somethin I forgot to mention is the gear itself needs int on it , not just wisdom.

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Old 10-27-2008, 04:47 PM   #63

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Monk Set Bonuses:


(2) Dragonfire boost.  This is a good (2) bonus since monks have very little AOE damage, and this increases our best source of AE damage (minus crane flock).  At the same time it is not remotely overpowered and hence a decent effect for (2). 

Dislike (Wholly Unuseful):

(4) Increased haste and melee skills in offensive stance.  Both of these bonuses are underwhelming, particularly because *they apply only in offensive stance, which is when they are the least needed*.  Monks are beyond capped in haste now, so any piece of monk armor with +haste is wholly unuseful.  Melee skills are pretty much capped unless in *defensive* stance, so again added melee skills for offensive stance is not good.  In short, any set bonus for offensive stance should add something monks do need, which would be DPS, crit, double attack, % melee accuracy (ala warden/dirge set effects), or +base CA dmg.  Also, when assigning a specific bonus amount to offensive stance, the amount should be larger than comparable effects that apply in any stance. 

(6) Bonus dmg and tick speed to rising dragon.  No single damage CA of a monk is damaging enough to be used as (4) or (6) bonus.  Most of our dps is from autoattack, and the rest is from the combined spamming of many different weak dmg CA.  Moreover, none of our damage CAs can even remotely be described as "class defining", and as such should never be the subject of these many-piece bonuses.  Dragonfire for (2) is the only damage CA that I would not mind seeing on our future set effects, if not as a focus effect on a specific piece. 


In my opinion, the (4) and (6) should either give general character mods (%dodge, mitigation, dps, crit, double attk, base CA) or affect class defining monk abilities, which in my opinion are: tsunami, mindful, peel, heal, external calm, iron stance, body like mountain, crane flock, altruism, and unknown beta ability #5. 

I will outline some ideas for boosting specific monk-defining abilities below.

Enhance Tsunami - Increases duration by 8 seconds and grants immunity to strikethrough while in effect. 

Enhance External Calm - increases ward amount and applies ward to the monk's entire group, or if this is deemed too powerful, applies ward to the monk's target of tranquil vision in addition to the monk. 

Enhance Heal - Reduces recast and adds 25-50% power heal component (monks master both body and mind after all).  Perhaps additionally give increased casting range to heal.

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Old 10-28-2008, 06:37 AM   #64

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SK VP Amor:

2 Set Bonus : ups proc chance on group buff dam/lifetap  -> BAD cause it didnt stacs with SK AA cause you can only double proc chance due to generell mechanism.

4 Set Bonus:  Fix  +value to siphon vitae (175) -> Bad for a 4 Set Bonus.

6 Set Bonus: +1 Bloodletter Trigger -> Good but if it dosnt stays after Amor is changed wearing 6 Pieces to get it is way to much. Highend SK needs this trigger to stay alive and handle hard situations but also need to be able to equip better amor pieces from contested. Other SK will also benefit if they can get it sooner.


(mostly defensive cause Damage should come from other sources)

2 Set Bonus: Give "Devious Evasion" a Shield block for the caster 10-40%  (will work due the nature of the Spell be an enhance for the caster and the target)

4 Set Bonus: +1 Bloodletter trigger

6 Set Bonus: should be a good but not necessary bonus on % base, to have room for alternative equip. 

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Old 10-28-2008, 10:14 AM   #65

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 just have one thing to add please do not give any bonus like the 4 set one for tandem if it will drop the buff if it gets disarmed or taken off by mob

  would suck if you lost a spell like tandem for a fight because of the aoe or what ever takeing away the spell every 30 sec

  or had to change gear just to keep from loseing the buff

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Old 10-28-2008, 11:46 AM   #66

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Shadow Knight - VP Armor:

Set Bonuses:2 Set Bonus: bad Relentless Hunger is based off melee and ranged attacks so as a group spell this can be situational, and not useful if placed in mage group.Suggestion - Reconsider RH proc'ing off any successful attack4 Set Bonus: horrible - for a 4th set bonus, adding a mere 175 damage to our life tap is just plain weak. Suggestion - completely rethink this one. Shield Block, reduction to spell timers or some way to increase DPS (like increasing base spell damage) would be nice. Also look at the Pally's 4th set to get a decent idea (10% to MC and DA)6 Set Bonus: nice - SK's avoidance is a weak spot, Bloodletter helps make up for it and the additional charge is icing on the cake.Suggestion - none

Armor Breakdown: Fyreflyte, most of these comments will revolve around the already known issue of Crusaders needing more stats to be equally effective / competitive. Helm: decent - Should have an additional stat, either AGI or INT to tailor to Crusaders Chest: good - Reduction to HT timer is niceLegs: bad - Need to look at changing the special effect. Most SKs already have this close to capped out (100% base value) from spell version plus SK AA tree, making this almost a pointless effect.Gaunts: decent - I would consider bumping up the DPS to +10 and also add either STAM or AGIShoulders: decent - tired of seeing so much +spell and combat art damage, change this with +shield block to go with the defense.Wrists: decent - tired of seeing so much +spell and combat art damage but leave this one as isBoots: decent - tired of seeing so much +spell and combat art damage so maybe switch it out with +spell crit or +DA. Also needs STAM or AGI

Mallec D'Armaego - 80 SK

Serovth - 80 Troub

Zilas - 80 Dirge
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:29 PM   #67

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My input = BlueDajaan wrote:

1. Troubador Set

as we all know the troubador is mostly a supportive class, but being a scout you still have the potential of doing some dps. while dpsing is more fun then hitting the jesters and perfection of the maestro buttons all the time, the setpieces could need a little boost to help doing so - especially there is no spell crit at the moment.

imho the overall stats like str, int, hp, resists etc. are ok, so i will focus on the special stats.

head / coif of magnetism / +7 double attack OK  (Yeah ok, but Manipulator's hood from PR is better overall)

shoulders / mantle of magnetism / +100 spell and combat art damage NO  (Change this to 125 for both, also look at suggestion for chest)

forearms / bracers of magnetism / +7 melee crit OK

hands / gloves of magnetism / +5 attack speed +75 spell and combat art damage NO   (RE2 gloves win)

feet / boots of magnetism / +10 damage per second OK  (Decent, but Trooper Scale boots beat this. Crazy Idea.. Spell Double Attack?)

legs / leggings of magnetism / +7 double attack OK / focus: increase of allegretto +8 NO  (Agreed, haste is pretty much useless, Enhance Fortissimo or Harmonization in some way would be better)

chest / coat of magnetism / +125 spell and combat art damage NO   (Spell crit if I must say so)

/ focus: +9% trigger chance of aria of magic OK   (Yeah, decent enough)

1.1 Set Focus

(2) Removes the concentration cost of Alin's Serene Serenade OK  (Like what was mentioned earlier, Aria would be a better option)

(4) Increases the damage of Perfection of the Maestro by 175 OK  (Yeak ok, but could be upped)

(6) Reduces recast time of Countersoung by 120 seconds NO  (I have NEVER used Countersong once.. Complete waste of time and for a 6 piece bonus? I must say.. shame on you)

the 6 piece bonus should be something really cool, to make wearing 6 pieces worthwhile. while on paper the 2 minute recast reduction of countersoung sounds good, it's completely useless on actual raids, because every mob gets a 10 minute immunity to countersong, once cast. so if you would really need it twice on an encounter (meaning the fight would last > 10 min) you still have the other troubador in the raid doing it because a typical raid setup contains at least 2 troubadors.

1.2 Recommendation


shoulders: addition of +7 spell crit

hands: replace +5 attack speed with +7 melee crit

legs: focus: enhance Fortissimo +5% double attack or enhance Harmonization by +5% or enhance Resonance range +5

chest: additon of +7 spell crit

Troubadors need both spell and melee crit due to having spells as well as combat arts, so it would be good to increase both. the focus on the legs of increase allegretto is pretty useless because 1) in a raidsetup a troubador is typically grouped with an illusionist so the group is virtually always beyond the +200 haste cap 2) the +8 gain is way to small compared to the gain from various other items - increasing it won't help though because of 1)

1.3 Bard Epic Weapons (both Troubador and Dirge)

just one thing: 4.0s delay instead of the 3.5s for obvious reasons please!  Meh.. would be nice, but Marrow's Song, Incandescent Blade are still decent enough.


i hope my post will be at least partially helpful to you guys! balancing and itemization is always a hard job to do, and its pretty easy to feel discouraged by being shouted at all the time, but you gotta keep going. you are doing your job pretty well imho, especially compared to other mmos out there! 

Yeah, you are doing Great! Don't take these comments too deep. Carry on plodding onwards and make this game even better than it is.


Edit - colours changed when posted.. =/

Edit 2 - Can I get my forum name changed to n3wt0n00  ? =/
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:02 PM   #68

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Comments in red.

Sarka wrote:


BP, Hands, Hat and Shoulder are bad for a VP Set. For this 4 pieces there are better replacements in lower tiers.The BP is not bad at all, but you are correct about that pieces from lower tiers are better.

2 Set: not bad, but not really good .......Agree, it's nothing more than okey, could really use an upgrade. 

4 Set: it would be nice when there where more (raid) group encounterYes, agree. And as far as I know, there will be more multiple mob encounters in TSO, including raiding.

6 Set: it would be good if it was on 2 Set, on 6 Set its not really good (to have in mind that you must replace 3 pieces that are better as the VP pieces)In my opinion, it's fine as a 6 Set Bonus in RoK, but to be a 6 Set Bonus in TSO, it need to be tuned slightly. 

Honestly the Set itself is nice, but its bad for a VP Set

As the other posters has said: The Sets must have bonus thats make you Wow. The single pieces could be equal (or a bit worser) as others, but the bonus should overshine everything.

Things that would be nice (or uber if you like):

- Debuff increase (on fokus one style, as a set-bonus all styles) In my opinion, not that useful, considering that our debuffs are not that great.

- Debuff duration increase (on fokus one style, as a set-bonus all styles)It wouldn't really be useful considering we have nothing like Dispatch and duration timer is same as reuse, and in some cases, duration is longer than reuse.

- Poison dmg increaseAgree, even though it's better to have on an AA tree.

- Increased Trigger chance for all Triggers (poison, procs ect)Not bad at all, as long the % Base Trigger is high enough.

- Double Attack on all styles (5% maybe)As far as I understand, basically the same as the current 6 Set Bonus.

- Aoe Chance for styles (20% maybe)Pretty cool idea, actually.

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Old 10-28-2008, 08:48 PM   #69

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[email protected] wrote:

Emlar_from_Halas wrote:

2 elts is really nice since it serves our primary purpose (keep aggro) without requiring additional dps increase, that makes assassins and wizzies happy.

You can lower reinforcement to 1min30seconds in your guardian AA tree, no reason to have it on your set pieces. Only thing your set pieces do is save you 3 - 4 AA's, in an already meaningless AA tree.

Last I checked the AAs alone didn't cap the reuse on reinforcement. Admittedly a lot of the 2-set bonus is wasted if you do have the AAs in Enhance: Reinforcement, but if you take the AAs from that and rescue it's a total of 8AAs to put into improved CA damage. In short I think this effect is reasonable, but would maybe be better as the 6 set (giving you the option of wearing more set pieces on fights you need reinforcement's reuse time capped).

The problem with asking people what's bad/good about the sets is it's hard to point out what's underpowered/overpowered without knowing the design goals for the sets. Is every piece meant to be desirable and better than T1/2 drops? Or is each set meant to have 2-3 useless pieces (as is currently the case)?

If the set is indeed supposed to be relatively good in every slot, then the DPS mod pieces (shoulders, boots) need changing, because 7 dps mod is awful compared to 7 crits. The helm as any guard will point out is junk as long as the T1 set helm has +5 block, and the T1 arms have +3 parry. With the upcoming changes to block chance and shield effectiveness it might make sense to have the shoulders, boots, and helm all have +5 shield effectiveness (not block chance) in addition to existing effects.

The set legs proc nobody has mentioned, is either broken or poorly designed. It's +125 damage to Seperate, that only applies on the initial hit, so it's 125 damage every 20 seconds. This is worthless. It would be much better to have it reduce the reuse time of Separate like the old KoS set, letting you debuff 2 mobs at once.

The chest effect is fine and a welcome hp bonus for the group. I should point out that it's currently possible to exploit and proc the bp then swap it out, partly because I want to be as unbiased as possible in this feedback, and partly because I don't think this is gonna be read by anyone that matters.

The 4-set (5% trigger chance to Hold the Aggression) is worthless as other people have pointed out. We don't get hit enough for this ability to generate much aggro. If its intent was to help AE aggro a bit, then my obvious preference would be 10% AE autoattack, which would stand comparable to the Paladin 4-set and others, and be situationally desirable. This would be better than enhancing Goading Assault or Siege because both these AEs aren't often used (Goading because of the cast time, and Siege because of the Lay Waste alternative through AA).

The 6-set which presumably is supposed to help single target aggro is very weak. A nice option would be a strikethrough bonus to help with hit rate infront of orange cons, and I think it should be swapped with the 2-set. So really my suggestions for changes would be:

- Helm +5 shield effectiveness in addition to current stats

- Boots +5 shield effectiveness in addition to current stats

- Arms +5 shield effectiveness in addition to current stats

- Leg focus: Separate - reduces the reuse time of Separate by 10 seconds

- 2 set: 15% chance to strikethrough a successful avoidance check

- 4 set: 10% AE autoattack

- 6 set: Reinforcement (as per current 2 set)

Note this wouldn't be a real increase in avoidance since +5 shield effectiveness is a lot less than +5 block chance, but it will mean after block chance is nerfed, the set helm is equivalent to the wrathbringer helm and the shoulders slightly better than the Wrathbringer ones. The boots will still be worse than trampler's boots for dps, but better for avoidance.

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Old 10-28-2008, 08:50 PM   #70

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6 Set: it would be good if it was on 2 Set, on 6 Set its not really good (to have in mind that you must replace 3 pieces that are better as the VP pieces) This Set Bonus is what makes wearing 6 set pieces the second best gear option out there (RoK). Putting this on 2 Set Pieces would be OP. If you want to copy/paste it to TSO, it need to be upgraded slightly.

- Double Attack on all styles (5% maybe) No thanks.

When i understand you right, you saying 6Set (CA Upgrade + 10% DA for 1 style) is good and DA for all styles not good ?

Well ........ the BP is in my opinion bad for the circumstances that it drops from Trakanon. The BP from Kpul D'Vngur is far better and far easier to get. To sum this up with the other 3 pieces, the 6Set bonus is to bad to compensate the loss.

We are debuffer, so why not increase the debuffs (and i mean high increase, not only 5 or 10%) ? The problem is, we are always gets a bit from this, a bit from that. I wouldn't have a problem to make less damage, when i can better debuff. And for better understandig : I'm more the person, who would take Debuff over Reach (when Debuff were good enough to take).

To the wow-effect, i want to have. I had not said that I have the patent to the problem. This was more something, that came first through my mind. This post is for opinions and thoughts for the defs, not to scold other posters, when they have another opinion. Just my 2 cents.

Ps: Sorry for the bad spelling, to think in the own language and translate it into another, is sometimes not so easy SMILEY

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Old 10-28-2008, 09:47 PM   #71

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Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you.

I don't see any difference between 6 Set Bonus and your suggestion, since you would not be able to stack up on those +5 DA's. Just a higher chance to have the effect up, I guess. I am sorry if I didn't understand you correct on this.

Yes, but it's still good, even though there are better ones out there, you can't deny that.

Like I said, in my opinion, most of our debuffs are not so good, and I don't think a major enhancement to them would make a noticeable difference. Giving us a new kind of debuff (enhancement to a CA?) is probably a good idea, though.

I am sorry if I was a bit harsh, and of course we can have different opinions.I have given my 2 cents already, and decided to comment on your suggestions, that's not a bad thing, in my opinion. A few others in this thread have done that already, anyway. The more feedback, the better, right?

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Old 10-29-2008, 01:29 PM   #72

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General, make all pieces with them have equal str and int and equal plus to nuke and ca. We were given a choice to melee with the druid/warden aa's and the gear should support it also. Especially the premium gear sets.

Warden 2 set bonus: Gives plus 8% to spores but cancels out the plus 4% from the warden AA line.

Spores is more useful in solo/grouping then raiding. Change the 2 set bonus to make Purity tick every 5 seconds instead of every 15 secs so that it is useful in raiding.

4 Set bonus: Plus 225 to small heal. Looks okay but not sure how useful it will be since it is the small heal. I dont have it yet so someone who has it will have to comment on how useful it actually is

6 set bonus: Plus DA and I think crit (at work so cant look at them right now) for instinct. A little underwhelming. Make it that with group wide instinct and it would be a much more appropriate set bonus.

Warden mythical: Stat are on par with the other healers but str should be equal to int on it. Clicky is pretty useless due to what it is and made even more useless due to length of cast time.

3 hits in up to 12 seconds stoneskin is simply useless unless its an instant clicky to put on the MT when he/she takes some bad spike damage to buy a few seconds for heals to land to bring the tanks health up. Also it cant be used on ourselves to make sure we lived through an aoe that the rest of the group might survive or in an emergancy situation like an add attacking us.

Not sure what to change it to though. Maybe just make the DS part of it last longer to help a tank get aggro on a pull possibly. Right now our tank does not take more damage then the stoneskin, wardes, reactives, bolster, ect from other group/raid members can handle for about the first 15 to 20 seconds of a pull meaning it has to reason to be used on a pull at all and its too slow casting to be used for an emergancy stoneskin.

Its like the death prevention spells. Actually used one out of every 40 times cast which is why it should be changed. All the other healers clickys are used everytime they are clicked.


I examined the spell icon for the 3 hit stoneshield. It has a 90 percent chance to absorb a hit.

Are the other healers mythicals like that too? Do the inquisitors have a 90 percent chance to cast the group version of of the wardens purity spell or is it 100. If so, thats another reason to make the clicky something more useful.

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Old 10-30-2008, 04:50 AM   #73
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[email protected] wrote:

Mystic Soothsayer Set.Like:1. Reuse reduction on group ward2. Heal crit3. Plus double attack4. Plus healDislike:1. No bonuses to cast time reduction2. Power regen on shoulders3. No combos of plus heal and CA (should be heal, spell and CA for mystics)4. Poor distribution of resists (MC sets typically result in better overall distributions)

I agree with this.

I was pretty surprised whan I realised there is no +CA on our set. Mystics are melee specced healers and we rarely use spells.

It would be also great to see some casting time reduction on our set. Power regen bonus on Soothsayer's shoulders is just useless. Personally I prefer shoulders from Traverno.


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Old 12-01-2008, 01:44 PM   #74

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Wizard set bonus 2 and 4 are solid. The 6 set bonus is just stupid due to the casting mechanics.

Also, the BP bonuses has to be the worst thing ever. This robe is suppose to be the best (prior to Ava robe) robe for Wizards in game. Instead, it rots in my bank since there are probably 4-5 robes better than that.

Can you even redo that robe plz? Give it something like spell damage crit or a decent proc? Anything. Why Blip? Why more power?

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