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Old 02-09-2008, 10:30 PM   #31
BtilTheMage

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Want to know some impressions from Non-Illusionists?  I linked the weapon to my guild today and the only responses I received were from an Assassin and Berserker.  "That's a [Removed for Content] weapon."  and "Ouch"  respectively.
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:48 PM   #32
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The weapon demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the Illusionist class. We may be in charge of power, but that is not a problem for any people in our group. The only thing this proc will serve to do is screw us when we are attempting to maintain our power below 30%. So essentially this weapon will not be of ANY use to us. For raids, well, there arent any off hand that my groups have any issue with power whatsoever, hell, even in Venril the problem is often too much power. Our weapon needs some form of damage proc to be at least equal to the Soulfire Staff. If not that, it could use some kind of base power proc like Dark Orb of the Mind or the Wand of Crystallized Plasma, preferably higher than 10%. Our dps, and thus functional role, is derived highly from procs. This is fin, this is what we do and most illusionists derive a certain amount of pleasure from this (at least I do). This wand does not represent our purpose. Suggestion??How about you change the pet buff from the Conjuror epic to some kind of group power thing (your choice, it doesn't really matter as long as its not a power drain ON us), but keep that same damage proc and crit chance. There you go, easy as freaking pie. If you need any serious ideas go to www.eq2flames.com and visit the illusionist section, there is a great post detailing several unique and fair ideas for effects. I suggest you read them. What you gave us is poor design at its best.
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:59 PM   #33
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I would be surprised if you could find one Illusionist who likes this weapon. That should tell you something.
We have so many ways of increasing group power or helping them maintain their power proactively. If this proc could be reviewed by the dev team, it would be most appreciated because right now, I won't be wearing my epic weapon.
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:15 PM   #34
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Ok i take offense to the post that our Epic will help our group out, Ok fine it will but you know what, This is not my Groups epic, its not Illusioniests group epic quest this is MY epic quest and i want MY epic to be for ME. The power proc buff is nice for sure, but where is the damage part of it? Most epics i have seen have had 2 effects on them, Where is the dammage part, Either spell haste, Or a DD proc 100% crits for 10 seconds something anything that provides a damage componant to the weapon. Personaly i think it needs a DD proc to make it even close to something Illys will use, I held off on doing SOD on this toon cause of the epics and have been using Grizzs wand, You know, what i will still be using Grizzs after i get my Epic, What does that tell you guys, I will use a quested weapon from 2 expansions ago over the most anticipated weapon and feature of this expansion.

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Old 02-09-2008, 11:25 PM   #35
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Aeralik wrote:
The wording on the proc is a bit confusing but that is a group power proc.  When you trigger the proc it puts a buff on each member of the group.  Each member then has their own temp buff with 2 triggers for power.  You guys might not have power issues but it will definitely help out your groupmates im sure which is a major role of the illusionist.

Thanks for clearing that up Aeralik.

Text on the weapon..

"9% chance to cast Soothing Mind on caster" and "On successful attack will cast Soothing Mind on caster"

No mention of groups anywhere so you can see our confusion.

I still wouldn't go near this epic with a barge pole, but at least the proc for those who want it (?!?!) is more useful.

And as others have said, no group I have been in since ROK came out have any power issues and I have no group pwer proc items. I just have my class abilities and power rarely drops below 80% and dropping below 30% for us is hard enough / annoying enough to maintain without this. Exceptions to this would be mana drain on that name in VoES when people dont joust it properly. Another would be coa if you dont know what your doing. But once you get it down the curse doesnt ever hit except for the names, even if you get adds. After that I struggle to think of another zone or name that power is an issue with in groups. And it is still GROUPS we are talking about because this is the group reward.

Furthermore I do not see providing mana as a major role of an illusionist. For me it is most definately a minor role:

1. DPS 2. Agro Management / Crowd Control (same thing really)3. Providing buffs4. Providing mana

Helping our groupmates is a major role of an illusionist as it is for any class, if that was your meaning of major role, and as such it would help our groups far more to have anything other than a power proc.

As to constructive criticism.. well...  reading the forum chat when the dev's asked what people whould like to see on these epics we replied that we did not want a power proc at all. It was the last thing we wanted. There are plenty of other ideas that have been bandied about, you didn't listen to the community then but I'll give it another go... 

Personally I would have liked any of : a DD proc, a spell haste / reuse / recovery proc , a deagro proc, an increased tandem trigger proc, short group time compression proc, a short group Illusory Arm proc....

I could go on and as I said before anything would have been better than a power proc.

Also if this is supposed to be similar to the coercer wand, then where is our 2nd activatable effect?

P.s. still bummed out that it has no moving parts. An on e other thing most epics got +4crit from what i saw, why did swashies get +5crit?

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Old 02-09-2008, 11:46 PM   #36
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Aeralik wrote:
The wording on the proc is a bit confusing but that is a group power proc.  When you trigger the proc it puts a buff on each member of the group.  Each member then has their own temp buff with 2 triggers for power.  You guys might not have power issues but it will definitely help out your groupmates im sure which is a major role of the illusionist.
Our groupmates can use soulsiphon gear to maintain power, there is plenty of it.  Add to the fact that more than likely some sort of bard will be in the group - they won't need power.I can almost guarantee nobody will be using this weapon as it stands, so it won't be helping out our groupmates anytime soon.  I really doubt you'll see one positive post from any illusionist worldwide.Just look at your WW parses, you won't see "Soothing Mind" showing up anytime soon. Whats the point in creating an epic weapon that nobody will use?  I hate to say it, but the only thing epic about our epic weapon is epic fail SMILEYagressiv
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Old 02-10-2008, 12:32 AM   #37
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A few regular heroic quest weapons in KoS are better than this epic.  Luckily, for those who may have to beg to get into raids to do some high end content, don't have to waste time with this questline.  Was a single high level illusionist in test even vocal about this?  Or maybe they didn't test these.  Developers, please note that illusionists have Mana Cloak, Mana Flow, Mana Burn, Savant, and a group diverting mob-mana stealing spell to give us power, on top of having two in-combat mana buffs.  We don't need clothing or weapons that do the same thing!  Especially when the goal is to stay below 30% power to utilize our AA intelligently.-A Saddened 74 Illusionist (Main)
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Old 02-10-2008, 01:27 AM   #38
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Echgar wrote:
Phew!  SMILEYClearly from some of the posts I have seen here, some of you are just a tiny bit upset.  As a reminder though, feedback on the official forums must be constructive and courteous.  The developers appreciate your feedback, both good as well as bad, but if you are unable to be civil the nice moderators will have to do some not so pleasant things.

I am just glad someone from SoE noticed some of the posts....maybe they can understand how messed up a few of the epics are...come on member the days of EQ1 epics....those good old days are long gone and they just can't get that magic back...

All 3 of my posts got removed lol....soo ill sum it up in a nice way...

Most of which has already been said

1. Our epic is horrid

2. T7 raid gear is better (heck even grizzels fizzel stick is better)

3. Pointless proc (note warlock)

4. SoE doesnt get the role of an illusionist

Have a nice day.

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Old 02-10-2008, 01:46 AM   #39
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What can I say.  I started off excited, lost alot of sleep, worked with people to figure this thing out, and put alot of time in.

 I WW and server disco'd a fair amount of items and was fairly happy with how the Illusionist community worked together.  I found it to be a unique experience.

I wanna thank those that truly participated in this.  Well done and gratz on your efforts.  Those that waited for walk-thru really missed out.

With all that said, the grand feeling, drive, and motivation have left me.  I'm just tired and [Removed for Content] off.

The most frustrating thing for me was knowing I was ahead, but not being able to capitalize on it.  Not because we were stuck, but because of a couple mobs not spawning.  It was complete and utter [I cannot control my vocabulary] that SOE did not get on top of this quickly.  24 hours later a petition response saying keep an eye out for updates.

The worst feeling for me was when the illusionist heroic epic was linked.  Not just because I had not disco'd it, but because it was a complete pile.

At that point I had seen so many cool epics and expected the illusionist one would be something I would use.  If it was even remotely close to the others I would be happy.  It was not even in the same ball park.  The others had 2-3 effects plus the crit.  We get a slap in the face for our efforts. 

I feel very bad for those that can't complete the raid zone version.  You got screwed the most.  Hell, if this is an example of what we get, we all are getting screwed.

Anyways, I still have 2 masks to go and no motivation to do them.  I have toons parked in both zones, but I went from watching the spawn spots for 4hrs straight with barely a break in between, to checking them every 4-6 hours.  See ya server disco.  I'm gonna get some sleep.  My bank is in no rush to have another unused item.

 Thanks SOE.

 -Gerrod, Illusionist of Butcherblock

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Old 02-10-2008, 02:22 AM   #40
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I didn't get to "participate" in the discovery, as my Illusionist is only level 70 atm, but I was in the WWIllusionist channel while it was all happenning.

It was exciting, nonetheless, and you were very involved Gerrod. Thank you, for that experience from the sidelines.

It is sad.

Our Epic is not only shunned by the Illusionist community, but by all players in the game.They are treating it like it's a joke.

About every 5 minutes somebody asks to see the link to the Illusionist epic, and get a constant stirr of the same responses:"you don't want to see it""It's junk""Don't call it an Epic"et cetera. . .

(most of the time they never get a link.)

This doesn't make me feel proud to play an illusionist.

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Old 02-10-2008, 02:25 AM   #41
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The thing about our epic that is so strange is.

 In order for us to do decent/good dps we depend on procs and skillful spell clicking basically.

 This weapon is an udder joke....

Honestly, when looking at nearly every other quested heroic epic weapon. Then looking at ours. It is really hard to understand

how you guys finished designing this weapon and said "Yes! now that is a winner for the illy's, they awt to love this one".

It is insulting to ur fan base and players to put a weapon like this in the game after all of the hard work that we put in to constantly try and

tweak our LIMITED abilities as they are.

P.S. NO GROUP NEEDS OUR EPIC TO HELP THEM GET POWER

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Old 02-10-2008, 02:59 AM   #42
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Both enchanter epics have procs which are of negligible value. This is a large problem because procs of other items (and not raid items either, say, level 70 heroic items) trump it to such an absurd degree.

 All they need to do is change the coercer epic to increase spell/CA damage by 10% rather than reduce power costs, and make ours add a large damaging proc with two triggers to the group rather than that stupid mana gain proc. Yeah, it would make the coercer epic than ours, but I'd cheerfully throw them a bone. At least if it was a group damage increaser there'd be a strong argument to use it over wand of crystalized plasma for us poor schmucks who don't have dark orb of the mind or whatever.

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Old 02-10-2008, 03:33 AM   #43
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Aeralik wrote:
The wording on the proc is a bit confusing but that is a group power proc.  When you trigger the proc it puts a buff on each member of the group.  Each member then has their own temp buff with 2 triggers for power.  You guys might not have power issues but it will definitely help out your groupmates im sure which is a major role of the illusionist.
THANKS, NO ONE WILL STILL USE ITI'm surprised groups in saints of norrath have that poor power usage.Fact is, utility is great, but for this item to be better than any other group item we could get right now it needs to add some kind of damage for the illusionist or for his/her group.  This will be more evident when you notice that no illusionist will ever use theirs, a casual grouper who likes to do instances won't need the power, savante and gazes can keep the power up for a group even in coa with constant pulling.  Plus they have better options like the quested two hander at 80, grizzfazzles from level 65, the unrest wand from level 70, and SOD at level 70.  Raiders are definitely not going to use it, even people who just raid protectors realm are going to add more raid dps using the 4% recast baton than our current group form epic.Bards are utility classes also, now why is it they got damage procs or effects that increase their dps, and we got a group effect that our group doesn't care about
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Old 02-10-2008, 04:04 AM   #44
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I also don't participate much in threads such as these, but since Bouncer Prud simply isn't spawning, I'm keeping myself entertained with the forums.  I'm not going to waste my time finishing this quest if it isn't changed.  I'd rather spend my time farming for praetor's guard, arm guard of the farseer, and such and using my T7 soulfire.  I know the community can seem to be whiny on certain issues...but I have not seen anyone have anything good to say about that weapon.  And I'm not talking about just illusionists, I mean ANYONE.  I feel like we're at the butt end of a joke here.
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Old 02-10-2008, 04:21 AM   #45
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Same boat as coercers guys.

Power regen stuff.....like we need it as is?  *sigh

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Old 02-10-2008, 04:56 AM   #46
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Imo - if developers think that we must have manaregen proc - ok, but made it better. Thats my variant

on a succesful hostile spell this spell has 9% chance to cast Soothing Mind  on target

Deals 800 damage and split 800 mana to group (8006 = 133, (3) for each member of group&nbspSMILEY. It will have group utility, raid utility and be ok comparing to other mage weapons.

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Old 02-10-2008, 06:22 AM   #47
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Heres an image...its just sad... 

also it will only be usefull for classes that actually ATTACK. You healers is oom ? Tell him to nuke the mob ? Get real !

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Old 02-10-2008, 07:58 AM   #48
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Here is the thing, devs need to understand the illusionist becuase obviously they dont.

 Any group that runs out of power, especially now in ROK is a horrible group, any raid that runs out of power is a horrible raid.  An illusionist by him/herself will never run out of power even without proc gear, and even IF there was some strange encounter where they would, they can pop on crystal gift and bam no power problems at all. 

 So now lets look at the weapon again,

The proc is HORRIBLE, nobody in there right mind would ever use this.  Lets face it grizzlefazzles is a much better weapon then this.  Given the fact that most of RoK gear was done pretty badly and dosn't fit an illusionist at all I kind of half expeted this thing not to be "awsome" but come on.  Lets analize shall we.

 SOD > epic

grizzlefazzle > epic

godking staff > epic (we are talking t5 content here its grey and its twice the staff this epic is)

Now I have faith in the devs I am just very concerned, when every illusy during suggestions said absolutely no power proc whey did we end up with a power proc?  This is the VP fabled set all over again (do devs really think we want the full set for its "awsome" bonus lol.  I just would really like it if a dev or someone came to talk to us about this and fixed this thing, we are not looking for something that lets us beat all other classes, we are just looking to actually change our weapons.  Unless the raid version just is absolutely amazing (would need to have a proc that does more then 8% of our dps to replace WoCP), then nobody is even going to bother ever wearing this thing.  A quote from SOE said that epics were to be the end all weapons of eq2, ie the best of the best, and at level 60 my illusy had better gear then this.

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Old 02-10-2008, 10:39 AM   #49
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Yeah, I don't have the words to describe how disappointed I was when I saw our epic linked for the first time. First one I saw linked was the Coercer one, and I thought, ok, it's pretty nice, and 6 hours of questing. Thinking that the difficulty of the quests has to be proportionate to the reward, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the useless thing they call our epic.It's truly become a joke. When you want to say "Oh, that's utter crap", you can say instead "Oh, that's utter illu epic". Being the only illu in my guild my guildies symphatised with me, saying how sorry they feel for me. So even the non-illus can see how bad the proc is.Honestly, please think about it. We have been given an epic weapon that at least 99% of us will never use (we already have much better ones). Not even for looks. It's just a stick, not much better looking than some crafted wands... I'm not going to whine too much about that, but after seeing some of the epics like the bruiser one and being amazed how great they looked with their animations...The quest itself is very nice and entertaining, minus the bugs.
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:30 AM   #50
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I wonder what the devs are thinking....are they reading these? Do they even care what players think.....

Lets go back to the post where devs asked us what we wanted??? Does anyone see anything about a power proc in there?? I hope that this was a mistake and they didn't intend to put that proc on there, because if they ment to have that they should /reroll Dev Team....

Clearly SOE does not have knowledge about what classes to in raids....paladins got screwed too, SoE has lost their talent from EQ1, what a shame to see the magic go!

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Old 02-10-2008, 11:31 AM   #51
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I for one wont use the epic,  Theres better Treasured items i could get more a use from than that lame excuse for a weapon.

its going to cause even more use of the sprint button in combat just to try and stay under 30% power for DPS.

Theres no T8 Carpenters on Nagafen that still play so cant complete the quest anyway!!!!!!

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Old 02-10-2008, 12:34 PM   #52
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Reminds me of Prismatic 1.0.

Very very sad pos Illusionist Epic

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Old 02-10-2008, 01:26 PM   #53
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Had to log in and add my name to the growing list of Illusionists that think our epic is useless. We do NOT have problems keeping our groups power up as we are Illusionists and that is a job we already do very well. With our group power buff, Savante, Devitalizing Gazes, and Mana Cloak, we do NOT need a piece of gear to improve that part of our job as we are already excellent at it without it. Give us something that matters to us!
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Old 02-10-2008, 05:40 PM   #54
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Well. the stats are fine I guess. And I don't mind the +4 spell crit chance. I still doubt that I will go so far as to actually bother equipping it though. Which, when you think of it is kind of sad.

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Old 02-10-2008, 06:00 PM   #55
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I normally do not post, so this is one of my first. I cannot begin to state how disappointed I am in our epic. The proc is useless, I will not use. Nor do I even consider the design even worthwhile... as a 80 woodworker the wands I make look very similar. Lots of hype, big let down. Please, look up the term Epic. Explain how treasured items have more use than this "Epic". It's obvious the person or team who designed this has absolutely no idea about what an Illusionist does, I'd even go close to saying they may never even have played a toon past lvl 20.Please, do your research before giving us junk and calling it "Epic".Thanks.
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:38 PM   #56
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   I have to agree. A power proc is very dissapointing.  I see a lot of people posting for damage proc, which woiuld be nice. However, i would actually love to see something that is one of a kind, original, and not on other items we (or anyone else) can get. 

   What made EQ1 epics so nice, was the effects. (at least they were, when the epics came out then).  Example: Enchanters in eq1 were known for thier haste, and thier mana regen.  They got a great haste on that epic.

   Personaaly i would love to see an illusion type proc. You know, a 30 second dps pet that is a mirror of the mob your fighting.

    Just for god's sake do not put any trivial effects on it, that can be found on another item!

   

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Old 02-10-2008, 09:12 PM   #57
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Just adding my voice as politely as possible.  I do appreciate the fact that a dev wrote to clarify the effect, and just maybe my raid group would be more thrilled about having power regen than I am.  But I doubt it.

The only reason I am continuing with this epic, is in the hope that the raid version will have something useful on it.

I don't think I will actually equip this item (unless they give us an appearance slot for weapons...).

And for people in non-raid guilds, sadly the group version of the epic would be a big waste of time.  In which case, seems a bit pointless having group versions of epics...

You really need some constructive input from high level Illusionist mains.  To be fair, a lot of the posts here that complain aren't offering constructive suggestions.

What would be nice in its place?  Dunno.  Proccing a group buff isn't itself a bad idea.  Just something more useful than this, maybe based on some of our other abilities...

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Old 02-10-2008, 10:30 PM   #58
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Belizarius wrote:

Just adding my voice as politely as possible.  I do appreciate the fact that a dev wrote to clarify the effect, and just maybe my raid group would be more thrilled about having power regen than I am.  But I doubt it.

The only reason I am continuing with this epic, is in the hope that the raid version will have something useful on it.

I don't think I will actually equip this item (unless they give us an appearance slot for weapons...).

And for people in non-raid guilds, sadly the group version of the epic would be a big waste of time.  In which case, seems a bit pointless having group versions of epics...

You really need some constructive input from high level Illusionist mains.  To be fair, a lot of the posts here that complain aren't offering constructive suggestions.

What would be nice in its place?  Dunno.  Proccing a group buff isn't itself a bad idea.  Just something more useful than this, maybe based on some of our other abilities...

Well lets consider what your raid group wants.  My raid group never has a problem with mana, so if I put this on they will see no mana difference in the item AND my dps will go down roughly 8%+.  I think my group/raid force is going to throw a fit when my dps goes down that much just so they can have power they don't need. 
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Old 02-10-2008, 10:50 PM   #59
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Very discouraged..I won't be using it..no point really..i never run out of pwoer..and neither does anyone I group with. I already have many ways of regaining our power..i don't need a weapon to add yet another way. Besides which there are some fights(raid) where regaining a whole lot of power is a bad thing. I'll stick it in the bank..sigh and pray they change it to something actually useful..like say +10% to base damage of all spells..with a nice 1k mental damage proc, or reduce threat priority of all non-fighters in group by 2 positions along with a nice damage proc or increase to base damage of spells. There are so many ways they could have gone..and instead they think enchanter..well lets give them more power..*roll eyes* We don't need more power regen..we need more dps..or utility that's useful.

Majika 80 Illusionist, Crushbone

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Old 02-11-2008, 12:46 AM   #60
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Funny, looks like they removed my post completely....well it stayed on here for a total of 2 hours....[Removed for Content]Either that or I just can't see my own post for some reason. Well, least it lets me know that somebody IS watching this forum, even if they don't give a reason for removing posts and/or a reason for this weapon proc and the comaring of it's graphics to the graphics of Soulfire (which is better imo).Update: apologies for the post on "firing" somebody. I'll attempt not to use such "inappropriate" language in the future. Guess I was hoping that it would help push just how upset most players are with this weapon.......guess not SMILEY Either way, thank you for sending me mail as to why my post was "inappropriate" and thank you for letting me know the post is watched (or is it just me? LOL) I'll try to keep my future "constructive criticism" within the boundaries next time and not step on anybody's feet SMILEY Thank you again for replying to me SMILEY
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