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Old 12-28-2006, 08:20 PM   #1
Sir_Halbarad

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Hi all SMILEYNot exactly a brand new encounter but maybe some of the experienced Raid Tanks can help me with the problems we face...Lyceum has become a breeze for us (except the chaos that Gnorbl creates) and Vilucidae is doable as well, but we face insane damage and aggro bouncing in the window between 10-15% health.- I don't attack because of the 50% riposte chance- We kick all flowers- I use everything I have when he enters the Stance of Thule at 25% to help the damage spike when he clears all debuffs (Rescue -to get a bit more aggro for the last part -, Command, Wall of Force, Plant, Tower of Stone, Block)- Debuffs are applied again over time (high resists as you know) and we slowly chuck off his hp- When he gets around/below 15% he seems to go crazy again... My health jumps from green to red and with all the priests outside MT grp healing me it looks like my health bar is bouncing up and down...Eventually around 10% I lose aggro - normally to a rogue... then he turns around and kills all the melee SMILEYThis happened in 3 tries on him... Any input would be very welcome.MT Grp: Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Warden, Swashbuckler, DirgeThanks in advance!
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Old 12-28-2006, 08:21 PM   #2
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The Dirge doesnt have the "Mob faces target" AA yet btw...
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Old 12-28-2006, 08:55 PM   #3
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I have never had any notable hate issues during the Stance of Thule, and we use exactly the same MT group as you do, except we sometimes exchange the templar for an inquisitor when we don't need the stone skin procs from Vigilant Benediction (not vs Vilucidae, though; a templar is a must in that fight.)
 
Based on my own experiences with Vilucidae:
 
o Don't stop attacking until you suffer a damage spike.  At that point, stop attacking until you are back to full HP, then carry on as before.  Your damage output constitutes a substantial amount of hate, especially when amplified by the dirge's hate gain buff, so you really don't want to do without it.
 
o Use a tower shield.  You can't parry or dodge Viludicae's attacks, but you can block them.
 
o Use a weapon with as high a delay as possible.  The lower the delay, the more ripostes you will incur.  Two good weapons are Vilucidae's Sword of Shielding (dropped by Vilucidae himself, of course) and the Cudgel of Pain (drops in Halls of the Seeing off Pain.)
 
o Don't blow everything when Vilucidae enters the Stance of Thule.  Put up Wall of Force and perhaps Plant, then wait for the first damage spike to hit.
 
o Whenever a damage spike occurs, use one of the following, in this order: Block, ToS, Plant, Stone Sphere.  If you aren't being healed back to full quickly enough, you may have to use another one of the abilities.
 
o Don't use Rescue until you lose aggro.
 
o Have those of your healers who use direct heals use "interrupt healing".  That is to say, they should start casting their direct heals even when you are at full HP; then, when a heal is about to go off, the priest in question should cancel it if you are still at full HP; otherwise, the priest should let it go off.  If all your healers stick to those simple rules, the impact of damage spikes can be reduced significantly.
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:28 PM   #4
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Good ideas, thanks for the tips SMILEY
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:42 PM   #5
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I always go full burn on the last 10-15% this means i use hearts , shards and the the guild lvl 50 power regen item plus potions throughout the fight to keep my power up.
 
By full burn I mean i attack as hard as I possibly can all ca's, switching between buckler and tower depending on the current state of my health SMILEY
 
Oh and I try to have dirge coercer and assasin if i possibly can SMILEY
 
Certainy there are better options than swashbuckler unless its all you have, dunno about you but our assasins rule dps on this fight.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:47 PM   #6
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One more thing seriously If you are not having big hate issues, shove a crusader in there , defensive stance with a tower or kite shield with poa and his avoidance buff on you, parse the differance on your incoming damage and lets see if your standard MT group stays the same. 

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Old 12-29-2006, 05:11 AM   #7
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Domiuk wrote:

One more thing seriously If you are not having big hate issues, shove a crusader in there , defensive stance with a tower or kite shield with poa and his avoidance buff on you, parse the differance on your incoming damage and lets see if your standard MT group stays the same. 


Yeah, thought about that too but we didnt try it yet... will give it a go next time I guess...Thanks for the advice! SMILEYEdit:So, following your advice... We will try the following on our next run:1. Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Warden, Assassin, Dirge2. Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Coercer, Assassin, Dirge3. Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Paladin, Assassin, DirgeLet's see... will keep you informed.... SMILEY

Message Edited by Sir_Halbarad on 12-28-2006 04:32 PM

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Old 12-29-2006, 02:05 PM   #8
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Sir_Halbarad wrote:


Domiuk wrote:

One more thing seriously If you are not having big hate issues, shove a crusader in there , defensive stance with a tower or kite shield with poa and his avoidance buff on you, parse the differance on your incoming damage and lets see if your standard MT group stays the same. 



Yeah, thought about that too but we didnt try it yet... will give it a go next time I guess...

Thanks for the advice! SMILEY

Edit:

So, following your advice... We will try the following on our next run:

1. Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Warden, Assassin, Dirge
2. Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Coercer, Assassin, Dirge
3. Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Paladin, Assassin, Dirge

Let's see... will keep you informed.... SMILEY

Message Edited by Sir_Halbarad on 12-28-2006 04:32 PM


Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Paladin, Coercer/Assassin , Warden

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Old 12-31-2006, 06:16 AM   #9
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Sir_Halbarad wrote:
Hi all SMILEY

Not exactly a brand new encounter but maybe some of the experienced Raid Tanks can help me with the problems we face...

Lyceum has become a breeze for us (except the chaos that Gnorbl creates) and Vilucidae is doable as well, but we face insane damage and aggro bouncing in the window between 10-15% health.

- I don't attack because of the 50% riposte chance
- We kick all flowers
- I use everything I have when he enters the Stance of Thule at 25% to help the damage spike when he clears all debuffs (Rescue -to get a bit more aggro for the last part -, Command, Wall of Force, Plant, Tower of Stone, Block)
- Debuffs are applied again over time (high resists as you know) and we slowly chuck off his hp
- When he gets around/below 15% he seems to go crazy again... My health jumps from green to red and with all the priests outside MT grp healing me it looks like my health bar is bouncing up and down...

Eventually around 10% I lose aggro - normally to a rogue... then he turns around and kills all the melee SMILEY

This happened in 3 tries on him... Any input would be very welcome.

MT Grp: Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Warden, Swashbuckler, Dirge

Thanks in advance!


If you debuff him or hit him with DoTs at 25% to 0% it will cause him to enrage.

We use Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Fury, Conjurer, Coercer


 

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Old 12-31-2006, 06:47 AM   #10
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Sir_Halbarad wrote:Hi all SMILEYNot exactly a brand new encounter but maybe some of the experienced Raid Tanks can help me with the problems we face...Lyceum has become a breeze for us (except the chaos that Gnorbl creates) and Vilucidae is doable as well, but we face insane damage and aggro bouncing in the window between 10-15% health.- I don't attack because of the 50% riposte chance- We kick all flowers- I use everything I have when he enters the Stance of Thule at 25% to help the damage spike when he clears all debuffs (Rescue -to get a bit more aggro for the last part -, Command, Wall of Force, Plant, Tower of Stone, Block)- Debuffs are applied again over time (high resists as you know) and we slowly chuck off his hp- When he gets around/below 15% he seems to go crazy again... My health jumps from green to red and with all the priests outside MT grp healing me it looks like my health bar is bouncing up and down...Eventually around 10% I lose aggro - normally to a rogue... then he turns around and kills all the melee SMILEYThis happened in 3 tries on him... Any input would be very welcome.MT Grp: Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Warden, Swashbuckler, DirgeThanks in advance!

Something that might help ya'll, is not messing with those stupid freaking flowers. Its a waste of 3 or 4 people. Just pull him to the top of the big stairs that go down into his room, with your back to the statue thing (he doesn't have knockback) and put your healers in one hallway and your caster dps in the other hallway with the melee, and then once he's in postion the melee just run around to his back and go at it. Viola, no more flowers. At about 15% health he usually does go crazy, and its hard to hold him. Doesn't really matter what you do, its gonna be a lot of work. Our Mt grp is usually Guard, Temp, Def/Mystic, Fury, coercer, and dirge. Have done it with an assassin isntead of the dirge when our dirge wasn't on, didn't make much diff in holding aggro during the last 15% and the loss of stoneskin proc hurts.
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Old 12-31-2006, 03:47 PM   #11
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Defiler/Warden/Templar/Guardian/Assassin/Dirge
 
Two forms of stoneskin helps a ton. Make sure the debuffs land after 25%, at that point, you can auto-attack. Only stop auto-attack when your life dips below full. Apart from that, it really comes down to endurance and power management.
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Old 01-02-2007, 08:51 AM   #12
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We use: Guardian/Defiler/Templar/Dirge/Coercer and Warden.

This is what I have done to make things alot better for the last remainding 15%. I go all out with taunt HO whenever it is available during whole fight from 100%-25% Health on Velucidae. At 25% my DPS knows to slow their damage a little and work their De-Agro as much as possible(Scouts should have De-Agro poisons on their weapons). I took the Guard line that gives 35% less Ripostle damage to myself, so I will use a Debuff CA then turn off Auto-Attack. Constantly hitting Tilda(`) between CAs. The agro you generated from 100% to 15% coupled with your constant taunting/Hate generators from group members should be plenty to hold agro till the end.

It is a little slower burn at the end. Make sure they save their best DPS spells till 5%. If someone spikes aftern 15% there is the chance to lose agro. But as long as they moderate, then you should be fine.

We also have members with tinkered items for memwipes and our chanters are ready with memwipes all the time.

I am also spec'd for avoidance/parry. I have +2% to block on bracelets, 2% ripostle on weapon. I avoid/block/parry a ton his incoming attacks.

Message Edited by Kreagan De'Unerro on 01-01-2007 08:54 PM

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Old 01-04-2007, 08:43 PM   #13
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Kreagan De'Unerro wrote:

We use: Guardian/Defiler/Templar/Dirge/Coercer and Warden.

This is what I have done to make things alot better for the last remainding 15%. I go all out with taunt HO whenever it is available during whole fight from 100%-25% Health on Velucidae. At 25% my DPS knows to slow their damage a little and work their De-Agro as much as possible(Scouts should have De-Agro poisons on their weapons). I took the Guard line that gives 35% less Ripostle damage to myself, so I will use a Debuff CA then turn off Auto-Attack. Constantly hitting Tilda(`) between CAs. The agro you generated from 100% to 15% coupled with your constant taunting/Hate generators from group members should be plenty to hold agro till the end.

It is a little slower burn at the end. Make sure they save their best DPS spells till 5%. If someone spikes aftern 15% there is the chance to lose agro. But as long as they moderate, then you should be fine.

We also have members with tinkered items for memwipes and our chanters are ready with memwipes all the time.

I am also spec'd for avoidance/parry. I have +2% to block on bracelets, 2% ripostle on weapon. I avoid/block/parry a ton his incoming attacks.

Message Edited by Kreagan De'Unerro on 01-01-2007 08:54 PM



swap warden with assasin or swashy (if swashy is really good only) the avoidance really doesnt help much vs viladucea or however the heck its called!
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Old 01-05-2007, 06:36 PM   #14
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I read this post a while back but hadn't done Lyceum since EoF launch so decided not to comment - we used to clear lyceum without a wipe pre-EoF and wanted to make sure i knew what i was talking about rather than going "blah, it's easy"

We went and killed him last night so now i can comment properly, and yeah, it does seem a bit harder, we only had 3 groups (went to lyceum simply because we had a v poor turn-out due to ppl still on holiday), but the "harder" part seemed to be the amount of damage i was taking, and we did have most of our healers present (though both dirges, our defiler and corercer were absent which probably didn't help lol) so i believe he is indeed harder, not just a result of doing it with 18 ppl.

So I'll add my 2c's worth now that i've done it again post EoF and i know the same tactics still work SMILEY

We did it with Guard (me of course), paly, mystic, templar, assassin, illusionist, but like i said we were having ppl trouble yesterday.

Normally i'd go with Guard, coercer, paly, dirge, defiler, templar (maybe swap the paly for assassin, but i don't normally have hate issued with dirge + corercer and i'm a big fan of having a paly in the MT group).

Anyways....

Make sure your healers know what's coming in the last 25%, make sure they're saving as much power as they can for this point and then go nuts on the healing as soon as he hits 25%.  Call it out on ventrillo / TS for them so they know they need to start healing their [Removed for Content] off so they don't get taken by surprise by the first spike and end up playing catch-up.  If your health is bouncing that much sounds like your warders weren't ready for it...

Get your wizies to feed power to the healers as often as they can thoughout the fight - they'll need lots of power for the end and make sure your scouts have mana poison so they're at full power at the end to burn it down quick as possible.

Pesonally I don't stop attacking for the repost.  yes it hurts a bit, but it's waaaay to easy to loose agro and wipe the raid if you do - i only tried that tactic once and regretted it.

Don't pile up ToS / block / stonesphere / command / Wall of Force together - it can take a long time to get from 25% - 0%.  Use them one at a time to keep it smoother (saving ToS for emergancies) rather than have 30 seconds of "wow, this is easy" followed by "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]" + dead.

I did find i was having agro issues on this mob last night and that's a new one for me on this mob.  I'm not sure if that was the loss of dirge and coercer from MT group or a change to the mob, but a few times he turned round and killed a scout - once it was the assn in my group giving me 26% hate (!).

One important point to note about loosing agro on this mob: make sure the person taking agro turns the mob round to you asap.  As we've never really struggled on this before last night i've never bothered reading the parse to find out if it's a frontal AoE or just the repost (think it's just the repost), but you REALLY don't want him facing the raid, as you've seen!   Either have everyone target the mob or call it out on ventrillo (or both).  By the sounds of it this is where you're going wrong.  I lost agro at least twice during his last stance and i think 3 or 4 times overall during the fight last night but it wasn't an issue because the offending scout instantly ran round to me and turning the mob away form the raid (i have them well trained :smileywink: ).  Doing this changes it from a raid-wipe situation to a simple matter of just rezing the dead scout and carrying on (mana poison helps here too to get the scout back up to full power in no time).

Hope that helps a bit.  He's not uber if ya do it like that, but i have mentally upgraded him from "easy" to "pain in the butt" status as of last night.

 

Message Edited by WolfShark on 01-05-2007 05:06 PM

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