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Old 10-04-2011, 11:56 PM   #1
Lcneed

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Are the recipes going to be turned into something else?  Just to save a few plats?  But you have to pay the crafter anyway...

I guess you don't have to do the faction.

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Old 10-05-2011, 12:10 AM   #2
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I am waiting for them to go back and make TSO and SF no longer require marks and shards. Just some plat and faction. Heck, when november rolls around, lets put launch EM on a vendor like those private MMO servers do. Go farm X amount of plat, have free raid gear. Then, we do plat for AA tokens. Say 5p:1aa. Now the new players can be caught up in no time! Only issue I see with this plan is we continuously hemorrhage current people, not gain them. So what new players does this appeal to? My 6th alt will appreciate the effectively free armor since I have the recipes and stacks of gems.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:24 AM   #3
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good argument if they are going to lift the shard requirements lets do it game wide...  i'd love ot have appearace from previous content and i've muted that gear long ago...

overall though TBO i dislike the removal of shard requirments for gear... but whatever at this point things are changing so fast I just roll with it...

would love to see HM gear get some lovin still...

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Old 10-05-2011, 01:14 AM   #4
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If this is going through for RyGorr can we please look at the mark cost for the mark gear from SF?  It is still 75-150 marks a piece for that for the t2 from Moonfield Hamlet in Stonebrunt. 

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Old 10-05-2011, 01:45 AM   #5
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I... What...  Why... The heck???

Well... We don't call SoE the Masters of Overcompensation for nothing.....

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Old 10-05-2011, 01:46 AM   #6
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So what exactly are the primal velium shards going to be used for now?  A few yellow adornments then what?  I'm not exactly saying this is a bad idea but something useful to spend the shards on would be nice, otherwise my motivation (gearing alts in shard armor) for running heroic zones is gone.

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Old 10-05-2011, 01:51 AM   #7
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I really hope they re-think this and this change doesn't go live. The heroic DoV dungeons are still current content, and the Ry'gorr armour is what you work up to for group zones. Not everyone raids, and if this change is meant to give everyone a free set of basic raid gear, then what was the point of grinding all those shards - which some of us didn't speed through a month after launch.

This is just one more big giant easy button. Haven't we had enough of those the past couple years? If you want super-easy, go play WoW. But I don't think that's what the EQ2 player base wants, and making it more like WoW isn't going to get WoW players to suddenly transfer to another 6-year-old game.

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Old 10-05-2011, 02:06 AM   #8
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Good change.

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Old 10-05-2011, 02:15 AM   #9
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Good change.

Big, very big, change.  I'm sleeping on it. 

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Old 10-05-2011, 02:33 AM   #10
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Good change.

How is this in any way good, other than making it easy?

SOE might as well just start people with a full set of T2 gear and level 90, as easy as this game's become.

It's no wonder people are bored with this game. They're able to rush through everything in a month, and then complain that there's nothing to do. And then they leave.

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Old 10-05-2011, 02:40 AM   #11
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When the last couple of expansions came out, I ended up with hundreds of unused and mostly unusable shards, marks, and the like.

I think the whole system of shards should be looked at if they are going to make that change.

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Old 10-05-2011, 02:46 AM   #12
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If the shards are removed they should increase how much they cost. around 100-300p per item.

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Old 10-05-2011, 03:33 AM   #13
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I really hope they re-think this and this change doesn't go live. The heroic DoV dungeons are still current content, and the Ry'gorr armour is what you work up to for group zones. Not everyone raids, and if this change is meant to give everyone a free set of basic raid gear, then what was the point of grinding all those shards - which some of us didn't speed through a month after launch.

This is just one more big giant easy button. Haven't we had enough of those the past couple years? If you want super-easy, go play WoW. But I don't think that's what the EQ2 player base wants, and making it more like WoW isn't going to get WoW players to suddenly transfer to another 6-year-old game.

+1

People need a target to be able to work to, and earning tokens to get Rhy'gorr has been the major motivator in running dungeons. Without that motivation then a lot of people will have no reason to run dungeons at all, especially on their 2nd / 3rd alts.

I like StarTrek Online (a guilty pleasure at times) but stopped playing as it was so easy to gain end-game gear. It looks like EQ is going the same way and I hate it.

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Old 10-05-2011, 03:34 AM   #14
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I will edit with exact numbers from Guk, but gems if you buy them from the broker will range from 1p-100p, depending (citrine/jaundice last time I looked were still expensive). So is the armor expensive? Not really. I leveled a toon through the SF questline, vendor selling armor as I got replacements/useless items. On average when I ran toons through that series, I made around 200p. Between buying experts, and then gems, you wont have enough for the armor. Oh wait! There is another xpack of quests to do for another 100-200p worth of vendored armor + quest rewards. Now go buy your gems, ask the 20-30 people on your server who have the recipe who wants to make it, offer then 30-40p for the combines, and you are now ready for anything.

Prices:

Black Marble: 2-30g

Emerald: 33-60g

Citrine: 70-80p

Jaundice: 80-90p

Diamond: 80-90p

Lava Ruby: 80-90p

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Old 10-05-2011, 04:02 AM   #15
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Good change.

How is this in any way good, other than making it easy?

SOE might as well just start people with a full set of T2 gear and level 90, as easy as this game's become.

It's no wonder people are bored with this game. They're able to rush through everything in a month, and then complain that there's nothing to do. And then they leave.

It makes raiders' alts easier to gear because they don't want to run the shard zones for a week or so to get the 120 shards you need to get a full set.

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Old 10-05-2011, 04:04 AM   #16
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Kruschev2086 wrote:

I will edit with exact numbers from Guk, but gems if you buy them from the broker will range from 1p-100p, depending (citrine/jaundice last time I looked were still expensive). So is the armor expensive? Not really. I leveled a toon through the SF questline, vendor selling armor as I got replacements/useless items. On average when I ran toons through that series, I made around 200p. Between buying experts, and then gems, you wont have enough for the armor. Oh wait! There is another xpack of quests to do for another 100-200p worth of vendored armor + quest rewards. Now go buy your gems, ask the 20-30 people on your server who have the recipe who wants to make it, offer then 30-40p for the combines, and you are now ready for anything.

Prices:

Black Marble: 2-30g

Emerald: 33-60g

Citrine: 70-80p

Jaundice: 80-90p

Diamond: 80-90p

Lava Ruby: 80-90p

Over here on Crushbone you can pay over 100p for the lava ruby and diamond. Jaundice, just sold a few of those for 80ish and a citrine for about 60sh.

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Old 10-05-2011, 04:26 AM   #17
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On AB, the black marble and the emerald re sub-plat, the citrine and the diamond range from 40-80, and the jaundice gem and lava ruby are around 100 plat.

Predictions:

  1. PQ's will die, followed by;
  2. The price of gems will skyrocket, followed by;
  3. Kael contested will be solidly camped, 24/7. Plat farmers especially will be packed in there.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:39 AM   #18
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

On AB, the black marble and the emerald re sub-plat, the citrine and the diamond range from 40-80, and the jaundice gem and lava ruby are around 100 plat.

Predictions:

  1. PQ's will die, followed by;
  2. The price of gems will skyrocket, followed by;
  3. Kael contested will be solidly camped, 24/7. Plat farmers especially will be packed in there.

Agreed. Why do PQ's when you can just buy the Rhy'gorr?

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Old 10-05-2011, 06:19 AM   #19
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I'm willing to bet it's due to the Dungeon Finder for this change.

Far easier for those who are getting into L90 content, as either first time or alt, to gear up.

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Old 10-05-2011, 06:35 AM   #20
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This doesn't need to be changed. The Drunder armour does.

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Old 10-05-2011, 06:53 AM   #21
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This is such a disappointing change.  As others have mentioned, the Ry'Gorr armor should be something that's earned.  It's going to have a negative effect on groups, a negative effect on the price of gems, and turn Great Divide and EW into a complete wasteland.

It was already disappointing enough to have the CritMit requirements eliminated on all the Great Divide and EW mobs, along with all the Great Divide and early EW instances.  This is just another example of eliminating any sort of challenge from this game, including the hard work (and practice) involved in earning the shards.

If they wanted to make Great Divide easier to walk into, then the Mark of Manaar armor should have had it's mark requirement lowered or eliminated.  Same deal for Void Shard armor, to be honest.  But really, nerfing all of the current content, and now nerfing the cost of the gear, is just leaving the existing player base (the biggest fans, and the most vocal supporters) with a bad taste in their mouth.  Whoever is making business decisions at SOE needs to stop.  They obviously don't realize that short-term gains often do not translate into long-term success.  Making EQ2 into a WoW clone, where everything is handed to you, will not save this game.  Making intelligent decisions will.  And these nerfs and changes are far from intelligent.

I agree with another point from earlier in this thread, these changes will destroy PQ participation, will cause the gem prices on the broker to skyrocket, and fill the contested zones with farmers, ruining the average person/group's chance of getting anything useful.  It will raise the bar of "average" gear, increase the quantity of players with that gear, and severely lower the quality of players with that gear.  It's going to be VERY hard to find good groups anymore, and the Dungeon Finder is likely to flop shortly after launch, because no one will know whether they're going to get a group of decent folks, or a group of complete newbies.  Pick-up groups of any sort will likely become a thing of the past, and you'll need to be in a guild in order to get anything heroic accomplished.

Bad change, SOE.  Please make sure this change never leaves test, and gets reverted as soon as possible.  This is yet another nail in EQ2's coffin for me and many, many other loyal players.

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Old 10-05-2011, 07:38 AM   #22
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2 thumbs up!

This is a great change.

I raid with my main, and have around 20 level 90 alts. Half the fun for me in this game is alts, as apart from raiding, I don;t play my main too much as there is realyl nothing he could benefit from from doing ANY heroic content.

However, the thought of grinding through 2400 shards for alts just to be slightly effective is a chilling thought, and therefore this change, for me, is awesome.

I am sure there are many many people with at least 4 level 90 alts - but faced with the prospect of going through redundant content time and time again on shard farms see their play time dwindle to the point they just say to themselves, why should I bother, and quit.

Adding this change frees people up to actually choose what to play, rather than being funneled into a WoW-esque faction/shard grind over and over.

And don't bother coming back with 'sense of achievement' as there is ZERO sense of achievement for repetitively doing instancesa just to obtain a piece of armor for tokens.

Eliminating the faction grind on all toons for rygorr and thurg was a good start, reducing the shard cost from 40 to 20 was a good start - devs, don;t listen to a small but vocal minority threatening to quit over this change - many more will eventually bleed out of the game due to the endless necessity of shard farming.

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Old 10-05-2011, 09:05 AM   #23
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Cratoh wrote:

Eliminating the faction grind on all toons for rygorr and thurg was a good start, reducing the shard cost from 40 to 20 was a good start - devs, don;t listen to a small but vocal minority threatening to quit over this change - many more will eventually bleed out of the game due to the endless necessity of shard farming.

But Shard farming is a good reason to run instances, it's what keeps better equipped characters playing (farming shards for alts).

If the need for shards is removed then people will ignore those dungeons that drop the worst gear (all pre-Kael ones) totally. That is 6 discaded zones to start. Then they will pour into Kael, often fresh from soloing up to 90, and will struggle as those with the better gear will have moved on to the harder KD zones or Drunder. People will see IK as the new entry level instance, and peole wil be very wary of getting more clueless people in their PUG and resort more and more to Guild only groups, or just grouping with those on their Friends list.

I see this as a massive disincentive to group, not a good move at all.

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Old 10-05-2011, 09:08 AM   #24
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Personally speaking as one of those who have a million alts, I like going thru the zones and earning my shards therefor earning my armour, I don't see where the necessity is in removing this aspect. None of the other shard armour in previous expansions got nerfed to this point so why this time??

@ Cratoh you say this is a great change as you have around 20 lvl 90's and half the fun is your alts in this game, my question is wheres the fun in having your armour just handed to you? You are running those zones for fun anyways so hows it actually hurt you to have those shards, they will still drop etc so instead of using your shards for your armour and adorns your gonna have a crapload of shards going to waste instead!!

2 thumbs down, this is taking away AGAIN the fact that alot of us worked our cute little behinds off to get our armour and now anyone can come along and just get it easily BAH this game is getting so dumbed down my dog could play it soon,instead of facerolling now playing our toons we can have paw petting keyboard ftw

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Old 10-05-2011, 10:06 AM   #25
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So this update introduces dungeon finder to make finding heroic instance pickup groups easier and simultaneously removes the primary reason for running those instances in the first place?
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:27 AM   #26
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DonnyOddlegs wrote:

So this update introduces dungeon finder to make finding heroic instance pickup groups easier and simultaneously removes the primary reason for running those instances in the first place?

Apparently so.

Very well stated, I'll just second that because my real opinion of it can not be expressed w/o violating the forum rules.

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Old 10-05-2011, 10:40 AM   #27
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Zylara wrote:

@ Cratoh you say this is a great change as you have around 20 lvl 90's and half the fun is your alts in this game, my question is wheres the fun in having your armour just handed to you? You are running those zones for fun anyways so hows it actually hurt you to have those shards, they will still drop etc so instead of using your shards for your armour and adorns your gonna have a crapload of shards going to waste instead!!

Shards I can use for adorns. I would be far more inclined to use some of those alts doing those same zones but going for rare drops from rare mobs, while wearing decent armor.

2 thumbs down, this is taking away AGAIN the fact that alot of us worked our cute little behinds off to get our armour and now anyone can come along and just get it easily BAH this game is getting so dumbed down my dog could play it soon,instead of facerolling now playing our toons we can have paw petting keyboard ftw

It's been a very simple game ever since they introduced chests dropping rares, and the introduction of legendary tier and common fabled drops, instances dropping fabled, instanced raid zones - adding a timesink in the form of shards does not make for interesting or challenging gameplay. Repeating content over and over to get tokens to buy gear is not a challenge at all and therefore this is my reasoning for the 2 thumbs UP SMILEY

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Old 10-05-2011, 10:44 AM   #28
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This is a fail. Changing the fundamental reward mechanisms for current tier content is ridiculous.   Doing so with no community discussion is absurd.  How can a player plan what they will do to progress their character when every 3 days a core aspect of the progression is modified?

It is definately not fun to log in to see items progression nerfed, or become pointless ie (TORZ/Spire BP).   Thurgadin armor was always usless.

It is not fun to have the pleasure of having finaly prepared to surmount some particular challenge, to have it nerfed so that it is no longer the challenge prepared for. 

It's like preparing for summit ascent of Everest, planning, gathering supplies, and training for a year, then upon reaching base camp finding someone removed the mountain and placed a few stairs up to a slightly elevated patio one day.  When waking up the next morning to make the best of it and planning to have a barbque with the kids on the patio and finding a sign with an arrow pointing at a small muddy pond that says "Hey look! You can fish here now!"  Err....um...derp....

How about they just get rid of gear, make all characters autogrouped into Drunder, with a bunch of mob corpses and chests in the zone?  Ya, that sounds great.

Honestly, I'm not sure I can muster up the motivation to even log in anymore.  All I keep thinking about is what will be screwed up next.

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Old 10-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #29
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I'm trying to see the point of this change. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I just don't understand how this could been well intended. I see a few different rationales.

1 - This was done for raider alts. Which would tell me, as a predominately heroic and x2 player, that I am not wanted as a customer.

2 - They intended to "fix" their error with Thurgadin (which everyone skips anyways) and Ry'gorr armor not scaling right between the PQ and Drunder armor by pretending it doesn't exist. By making it so common everyone ignores it the problem is "solved". Granted the problem wasn't and still isn't with those two armor sets but with Drunder as a zone. This tells me they are just going to continue to sweep itemization under the rug and pretty much leave it in this horrible condition - remember it isn't just broken at 90, but all the way down the teens.

3 - They are doing this on TEST in hopes that people will come over and test drunder because they are planning to finally address it and they want a specific gear set for the tests. Unpresidented and totally a pipe dream, but dammit I can dream. If this has a remote chance of being true, it would tell me they are actually planning to try to use test to test unstead of testing on live.

Some rationale from a redname would be another great wish come true on this.

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Old 10-05-2011, 11:24 AM   #30
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This will likely be live with some exceptionally brilliant bugs before a red name posts.

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