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Old 10-19-2012, 09:01 PM   #1
Ulrichvon

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Finally getting rid of the group XP penalty, but at the same time they're making it so you get 0 xp unless you are on the hate list.

Maybe they've never mentored down below level 50, but its almost impossible not to one-shot encounters at that level, so good luck getting on the hate list before a mentored toon destroys the mob.

All I can say is I'm glad I have all 24 classes leveled already, cause I don't want to ever go back and do another after these changes they proposed today are in.

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Old 10-19-2012, 09:15 PM   #2
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Hmm.  I often group with my son's paladin, with me on my inquisitor.  I heal him when needed, cure status ailments and such.  And often do not generate hate before he takes out many mobs.  Am I supposed to attack all the mobs before he does so I get XP as well?  Guess I can do an aoe swing, and almost die before he gets them all off me, eh? 

Sigh...

And what happens if I am with my merc, who is the tank/melee while I am the squishy leather clad warden?  Do I lose all XP when my merc takes out mobs too fast?

EDIT - Oi!  What about the classes that have the skills that remove them from the hate list?  Are those skills now a very bad thing?

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Old 10-19-2012, 09:24 PM   #3
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Quite cunning. So a mentored down level 92 with a string of toons parked in a safe corner (or on auto follow) is no longer viable?

Those parked toons will now need to try and hit the mob with something at least once. I expect the PL'er will now have to hold agro and not one shot kill the mob. (Oh crap. This is a group with the PL'er as the tank). I guess we'll have to group again with other players.

This won't affect clever boxers. They'll just make some sort of macro to make every parked toon hit the mob one time with a ranged CA or spell.

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Old 10-19-2012, 09:32 PM   #4
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Hmm.  What about chests?  My son was unable to collect an exquisite chest from a mob that his merc defeated today.  Will group members that did not generate hate be able to collect from chests?

Darn!  There are so many skills that many classes need to use that remove hate in some way.  What will happen to these classes after this?

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Old 10-19-2012, 09:42 PM   #5
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Wow, so they are making it near-impossible for a mentored character to help level a lowbie...

This is probably the worst change they have made in many years...

Many times the low toon CAN'T get an attack off on a mob before it dies, so way to kill mentoring SOE.

I REALLY hope that they undo this change.

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:04 PM   #6
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Solution: Don't make mentored toons so darn powerful. 

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:15 PM   #7
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Eh? What's going on? I was PLing my bruiser earlier and as long as he wasn't FD then he got xp.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:28 PM   #8
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One question though, any links to where this statement came from?

Not saying it isn't true, as many times dev/gm/community relations posts are hidden on random pages of long threads, making it hard to link to.

Just woondering were this information orginates from.

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:34 PM   #9
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http://eq2wire.com/2012/10/19/eq2-m...ics-panel-live/

* Adjustment to Mentor Experience * Group XP Penalty is gone – must be on hate list

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:36 PM   #10
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Finally getting rid of the group XP penalty, but at the same time they're making it so you get 0 xp unless you are on the hate list.

Maybe they've never mentored down below level 50, but its almost impossible not to one-shot encounters at that level, so good luck getting on the hate list before a mentored toon destroys the mob.

All I can say is I'm glad I have all 24 classes leveled already, cause I don't want to ever go back and do another after these changes they proposed today are in.

THANK YOU SOE!!!!!!

This made my day.  My week.  My month.

I"m sick to death of carrying level 90 idiots who don't know the first thing about playing their class because someone else carried them 1-90.  Maybe now people will actually WORK for their levels.  It's not like it's hard.

Oh and by the way there are not 24 classes.  There are 25.  You missed one

I have nothing against you, but the way people powerlevel is based on obvious exploits.  They closed the worst.  It's probably still possiible to exploit, but every loophole closed is a good thing.

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:49 PM   #11
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I really don't think this is going to have the end-of-the-world effect on powerleveling that's being woried about.

All you have to do is throw one spell, one reactive, one heal, one debuff, one sword swing, one arrow, one... anything into the encounter and you're on the hate list.  Dehates don't remove you from the hate list.  Positionals don't remove you from the hate list. Even if they put you at negative hate. 

The only thing this hurts is AFK powerlevel-ees. And situations so imbalanced the Powerlevel-er is oneshotting every single mob.  And in exchange legitimate PLing is many times faster.

I'm ok with that...

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:02 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

I really don't think this is going to have the end-of-the-world effect on powerleveling that's being woried about.

All you have to do is throw one spell, one reactive, one heal, one debuff, one sword swing, one arrow, one... anything into the encounter and you're on the hate list.  Dehates don't remove you from the hate list.  Positionals don't remove you from the hate list. Even if they put you at negative hate. 

The only thing this hurts is AFK powerlevel-ees. And situations so imbalanced the Powerlevel-er is oneshotting every single mob.  And in exchange legitimate PLing is many times faster.

I'm ok with that...

This is how I read it as well. Sounds like all in all a good thing to me. Wonder if it applies to the afk pet/merc levelers too?

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:33 PM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

I really don't think this is going to have the end-of-the-world effect on powerleveling that's being woried about.

All you have to do is throw one spell, one reactive, one heal, one debuff, one sword swing, one arrow, one... anything into the encounter and you're on the hate list.  Dehates don't remove you from the hate list.  Positionals don't remove you from the hate list. Even if they put you at negative hate.

I read this from, the article then lol'd "280 AA reward with the expansion"

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:57 PM   #14
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General_Info wrote:

I read this from, the article then lol'd "280 AA reward with the expansion"

I saw that, I don't know exactly what it means.  I have a guess, but that's kinda WTFish...  I mean, it can't just be, poof, 280AA? That's just not right....

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Old 10-20-2012, 12:13 AM   #15
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Finally getting rid of the group XP penalty, but at the same time they're making it so you get 0 xp unless you are on the hate list.

Maybe they've never mentored down below level 50, but its almost impossible not to one-shot encounters at that level, so good luck getting on the hate list before a mentored toon destroys the mob.

All I can say is I'm glad I have all 24 classes leveled already, cause I don't want to ever go back and do another after these changes they proposed today are in.

First off...when you know you've hit maximum nerd level....

Secondly, I believe this is more directed at stopping AFK merc leveling moreso than powerleveling.

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Old 10-20-2012, 12:25 AM   #16
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This is disappointing, extremely disappointing. My husband has always helped me to level my toons, for 6 years+ years now. I can tell you with authority that non-healers would have a VERY hard time getting on the hate list of a mob being killed by a mentored conjuror. I know, I've tried. PLEASE reconsider this, SOE. I don't understand the purpose =(

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Old 10-20-2012, 12:26 AM   #17
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I really don't know why people have such a problem with the already old thread issue with mercs here while over at EQ 1 it is expressly allowed.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:10 AM   #18
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I two box on a daily basis. It's almost always to run my alts thru quests or level them. Thats the whole point of the second account. Should this go live and I have to switch screens, dps, switch screen, kill mob, I'll leave this game and never return.

What about ranged weapons while mentored? We one shot everything. So no AA or EXP?

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Old 10-20-2012, 01:48 AM   #19
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Mohee wrote:

Solution: Don't make mentored toons so darn powerful. 

What about how often half an encounter gets one-shot even not mentored?

This isn't a really good change, or as to say, its not the right fix for the problem they're trying to resolve.  Innactive players not getting XP is fine, but they've got to find a better way of determining inactivity.

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Old 10-20-2012, 02:04 AM   #20
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Or only implement this change if its a player and their merc.

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Old 10-20-2012, 02:09 AM   #21
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salty21db wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

All I can say is I'm glad I have all 24 classes leveled already, cause I don't want to ever go back and do another after these changes they proposed today are in.

First off...when you know you've hit maximum nerd level....

Secondly, I believe this is more directed at stopping AFK merc leveling moreso than powerleveling.

If you've been here since launch, having all classes leveled isn't much to brag about, particularly these days.

However, this does stop powerleveling. 

It was my last thread on powerleveling that brought dev attention and I think was atleast partially responsible for this change.  To recap, I PL'd my son on the last doulble weekend and I upset many players cause I couldn't invite them along.  So I posted the story and my arguement for why the current group xp system is bad.

Now, with this change live, I wouldn't have been able to PL my son.  He was playing, but realisticaly, he was maybe hitting 1 of 4 mobs that died, cause ED would go off and kill 5 mobs when it proc'd.  Or, AE auto would hit 4 mobs and they'd all die from one swing, etc.  He wasn't tagging on autofollow, we were playing together, but with this new system, it wouldn't have worked.

Lastly, this change results in the droping of many subs.  I can't tell you how many people I know who have a 2nd account just so the can PL with it.  They were very upset to hear about this change and the general response was.  "I'm not carrying this extra account anymore, and when I get bored of my current toon, I'm not leveling one up in the new system, I'm just going to leave the game".

Thats the truth of it.  PLing has been in for so long, so many players only play end-game and have no interest in 'the journey' cause they've done it so many times its not interesting anymore.  So presenting them with level up slowly or don't level up, they'll chose to not play this game.

They need to spend a few more cycles thinking about what they're trying to do with this one, and comming up with an overall system that makes more sense.  I have ideas on what that should be, but there are many other possible sollution that wont penalize players the same way the current proposed one will.

....

Other games are smarter and are setup such that if a player doesn't push a button every so often they get tagged as idle and stop getting rewards.  That for example is much better than 'on the agro list'.  Particularly in a DPS heavy game like eq2.  Even in current tier, unmentored, a top end group kills things so fast not every player hits every mob or makes the agro list on every one before it dies.

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Old 10-20-2012, 02:21 AM   #22
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Most likely they will end up rethinking this idea and backing off.  It's really a horrid idea.  From a PL'n perspective, I could get around this. 

Now consider the actual real life group.  It's going to encourage a lot of bad behaviors.  You are going to get players that just blindly AE to make sure they get full credit for any xp.  It's going to be a change in game style that I really think the devs haven't even thought through.  And it's not just about one shotting the mobs.  If you have a full group that is pulling armies of mobs, they can go down very quick.  And you're going to have single target, healers, support classes that end up with "holes" in their xp because they didn't get on the hate list quick enough.

They tried to do something similar for PQs.  Lots of legitimate players got screwed over and I don't think they ever completely fixed it.  PQs just died as the game moved on.

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Old 10-20-2012, 03:05 AM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

General_Info wrote:

I read this from, the article then lol'd "280 AA reward with the expansion"

I saw that, I don't know exactly what it means.  I have a guess, but that's kinda WTFish...  I mean, it can't just be, poof, 280AA? That's just not right....

Two claims per account.  Claim it on a level 90 character and indeed, poof, 280 AA.

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Old 10-20-2012, 03:08 AM   #24
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This is one of those issues that some people here are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Any participating group member in any completely non trivial content will always end up on a mobs hate list just by playing normally. Second, even from a power leveling standpoint, there are lots of ways of getting around this. For example just aggroing mobs and then casting a group buff would get you on a hate list. In fact anything you do that would get a mob to attack you if the person who pulled them evaced and you didn't is getting on the hate list. The only thing this effectively stops is completely AFK power leveling toons from sharing XP. That isn't even to go into other details, such as the fact that xpac is coming with a "potion" you get that you can use to give a toon 280aa from zero. It also doesn't take into account that with a fresh account without outside help if you know what your doing, with one SC card to sell for plat, and about 20 to 30 hours of playtime you can take any toon from scratch to 92 320 right now.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:22 AM   #25
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Goodness so much ado about nothing. 

Stop worrying about the other guy.

If someone doesn't know how to play their toon and it bothers you don't group with them.

If someone leveled sitting in a corner while someone else did the work, so what.

If you want to earn your levels in a particular way  then earn them that way.

There is always going to be someone looking for and finding a work around or exploit or cheat  or ezbutton, stop penalizing the regular players in an attempt to squelch something that means nothing at all.

Encourage grouping by eliminating any penalty for grouping, period. 

edit spelling error

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Old 10-20-2012, 04:13 AM   #26
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Brigh wrote:

I really don't know why people have such a problem with the already old thread issue with mercs here while over at EQ 1 it is expressly allowed.

People still sitting in eq1 after all these years obviously have no issue taking their time to complete whatever they need to, hell, some of the nameds have week long spawn times. (most)People in eq2 have much lower patience and do not wish to take 4-8 months to lvl a single toon to 92. Power leveling has been a part of this game for years now, to remove it(at this point) would do far more harm than good. You can't force people that have grown so accustomed to solo play to start stringing together groups of lvl 20s to lvl again like we were back in jolly old 2006. There simply isnt enough people lvling toons from scratch these days, PLing is required to keep people's interest in leveling new toons at all, and if they removed that element of the game or made it a total pain to do so, I for one would quit leveling new toons and probably eventually stop playing alltogether(no new toons, no new interest, period.

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Old 10-20-2012, 08:05 AM   #27
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With SOE trying to improve recruitment options (including the thread by Windstalker about RAF + Returning Player incentives), I do not forsee this remaining as stated, for long.Too many mobs die in one swing, from a decently geared character. This is amplified when mentoring and mercenaries are involved. We may see this go live as "planned", but SOE will quickly learn they need to revise the stance on this.I am also curious, exactly what does SOE mean when they say that the grouping XP penalty is being removed?Considering this is the same SOE who thought that we were already getting a "bonus" when grouping, I desire actual details, over vague one-liners. I am likely to view things differently (as a player of EQ2), compared to a member of the SOE team that is looking at a "spreadsheet", because I factor things like mob density, kill rates, respawn rates, transport speeds, etc.

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Old 10-20-2012, 09:22 AM   #28
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General_Info wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I really don't think this is going to have the end-of-the-world effect on powerleveling that's being woried about.

All you have to do is throw one spell, one reactive, one heal, one debuff, one sword swing, one arrow, one... anything into the encounter and you're on the hate list.  Dehates don't remove you from the hate list.  Positionals don't remove you from the hate list. Even if they put you at negative hate.

I read this from, the article then lol'd "280 AA reward with the expansion"

This, also from the Wire:

"So for those folks behind on AAs, if you buy Chains of Eternity, you get an item you can claim 2 per account (not 1 per character) that if you are level 90 it dings you to 280AAs."

So let's dump it done some more cause getting to 280 is just two hard but at the same time lets punish so many of you with mulitple accounts that you allow you to pay for bringing along mulitple charachters.  Every day for the last year (at least)  I remember it being less anoying before then SOE keeps coming up with stuff to make the game less enjoyable.

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Old 10-20-2012, 09:25 AM   #29
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Or only implement this change if its a player and their merc.

So punish thoses that don't want to group with the friendly folks of EQ2?  hmmmm, seems ironic coming from the source.  SOE has been trying to encourage people with promises that you can solo or two man with the help of mercs.  We are already losing status to them and you want to pile it on. 

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Old 10-20-2012, 09:26 AM   #30
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Cloudrat wrote:

Goodness so much ado about nothing. 

Stop worrying about the other guy.

If someone doesn't know how to play their toon and it bothers you don't group with them.

If someone leveled sitting in a corner while someone else did the work, so what.

If you want to earn your levels in a particular way  then earn them that way.

There is always going to be someone looking for and finding a work around or exploit or cheat  or ezbutton, stop penalizing the regular players in an attempt to squelch something that means nothing at all.

Encourage grouping by eliminating any penalty for grouping, period. 

edit spelling error

This.

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