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Old 03-08-2006, 01:11 AM   #1
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I included some balance changes (read: nerfs) to Conjurors and Necromancers in the update notes for last night's Test push. I was just informed that these changes actually did not make it to Test, and were reverted before leaving internal servers. So, nothing to see here. Sorry if I caused any panic for those of you who read the notes about Conjuror and Necromancer pet changes.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:22 AM   #2
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Well now this is confusing with the "Sorry if I caused panic..." comment.
 
Does this mean they are going in at a later date or you all are not putting them in?
 
 
If they are going in on a later patch, people can still panic I guess is all i am saying...not that I saw many necros minding so far.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:22 AM   #3
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Will these changes still be going in soon then (as in the next LU)? And if so, can you give us any idea on how much of a reduction in damage to our DPS pets this will actually cause?Also, any chance at possible increasing the power pools of all of the various pets? Currently if a group is chain pulling the pets will quickly run out of power forcing us to resummon them. The scout line isn't so bad, but the current tank and mage line is amazingly bad about it.Small changes like that would go a long way to help alleviate some of the pain of loosing any DPS at all.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:23 AM   #4
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had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:24 AM   #5
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So, are they EVER going to go in, or just delayed and not going in NOW?And if they are going in, why? We've received no DPS buffs at all since LU13, just nerfs (the most prominent being the Lich nerf). Why is the nerf needed at all? We only APPROACH T1 DPS when all the stars are aligned, and the sorcs/preds get lazy.If there needs to be a DPS gap, then it's already there. Don't make it into a DPS Chasm.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:27 AM   #6
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Chabisu wrote:Will these changes still be going in soon then (as in the next LU)? And if so, can you give us any idea on how much of a reduction in damage to our DPS pets this will actually cause?Also, any chance at possible increasing the power pools of all of the various pets? Currently if a group is chain pulling the pets will quickly run out of power forcing us to resummon them. The scout line isn't so bad, but the current tank and mage line is amazingly bad about it.
Kind of like how players have to med between pulls too?
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:29 AM   #7
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ChaosUndivided wrote:

Chabisu wrote:Will these changes still be going in soon then (as in the next LU)? And if so, can you give us any idea on how much of a reduction in damage to our DPS pets this will actually cause?Also, any chance at possible increasing the power pools of all of the various pets? Currently if a group is chain pulling the pets will quickly run out of power forcing us to resummon them. The scout line isn't so bad, but the current tank and mage line is amazingly bad about it.
Kind of like how players have to med between pulls too?
But players have the option of using food/drink to regen health/power.  And they can also get power and health regen totems/equipment/potions that pets do not.  So your argument is invalid.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:32 AM   #8
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Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

Cry more, the devs may hear you.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:34 AM   #9
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KBern wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

Cry more, the devs may hear you.
check the patch notes buddy.. they did hear the Rangers.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:35 AM   #10
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Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

You do know that the whole game does not revolve rangers right ?
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:36 AM   #11
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Ail wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

You do know that the whole game does not revolve rangers right ?
That'd be why I play 10 different classes on live, and have 6 characters on test.  I dont play the Ranger much anymore, focused more on the Guardian these days.
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:37 AM   #12
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Sirlutt wrote:

KBern wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

Cry more, the devs may hear you.
check the patch notes buddy.. they did hear the Rangers.

WOW thank cpt obvious...imagine that is what this thread is about!

Again go cry some more.

It must be a class thing....rangers get a deserved nerf and cry like little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es....necros get one and just ask when.

So what is your point here again but to cry more or what?

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Old 03-08-2006, 01:39 AM   #13
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KBern wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:

KBern wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

Cry more, the devs may hear you.
check the patch notes buddy.. they did hear the Rangers.

WOW thank cpt obvious...imagine that is what this thread is about!

Again go cry some more.

It must be a class thing....rangers get a deserved nerf and cry like little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es....necros get one and just ask when.

So what is your point here again but to cry more or what?


Couldn't agree more, the way the ranger community reacted to the latest changes makes me sick and ashamed to be a ranger....( well that and the number of BS posts that were made by rangers either lying outright about the current state of things or highly understating how unbalanced we were before LU 20..)

 

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Old 03-08-2006, 02:02 AM   #14
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KBern wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:

KBern wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

Cry more, the devs may hear you.
check the patch notes buddy.. they did hear the Rangers.

WOW thank cpt obvious...imagine that is what this thread is about!

Again go cry some more.

It must be a class thing....rangers get a deserved nerf and cry like little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es....necros get one and just ask when.

So what is your point here again but to cry more or what?


I think the point is most summoners (conjuers especially) know damm well they are going to get nerfed and are somewhere way ahead of where they should be.Rangers are supposed to be t1 dps and were expecting other classes to be given a boost rather than themselves getting nerfed.I wouldnt worry about any nerf anyway, I honestly think summoners will still be ahead of everyone even after changes. Rarely do SoE completely gut a class like they did with rangers, and I still firmly believe that had more to do with PvP balance than anything else.Why would SoE care if summoners were doing a extra 500DPS more than a t1 dps class, it's hardly game breaking in terms of PvE.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:07 AM   #15
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Ail wrote:

KBern wrote:

WOW thank cpt obvious...imagine that is what this thread is about!

Again go cry some more.

It must be a class thing....rangers get a deserved nerf and cry like little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es....necros get one and just ask when.

So what is your point here again but to cry more or what?


Couldn't agree more, the way the ranger community reacted to the latest changes makes me sick and ashamed to be a ranger....( well that and the number of BS posts that were made by rangers either lying outright about the current state of things or highly understating how unbalanced we were before LU 20..)


so reroll something else  .. Rangers didnt get a "deserved nerf" they got a solid whacking with the nerf stick several times.. mechanics were changed which  had a MUCH larger effect than desired.. anyone playing a Ranger with half a brain can see that and many many people playing classes other than the Ranger can see that.. many Rangers (including myself) stated over and over damage needed to be reduced,, the issue arose in HOW it was reduced.  The fact that Rangers are getting fixes is a clear indication that their damage was reduced too much.Rangers were vocal because the changes dropped their DPS to the basement ... summoners on the other hand are getting a few tweaks in comparison .. I dont see any summoners owning up saying their DPS is too high.. they seem to think that they deserve to be Tier 1 .. not Tier 2... right now their pets put them FAR above the Tier 1 in quite a number of situations..Typically 95% of what I post on here is half hearted crap and not to be taken seriously... and this is no exception.. your ashamed of the way Rangers acted.. LOL.. oh.. my..god .. get a grip.. swivel your chair around and take a look at whats on either side of the computer screen for a little while.Just like the Ranger changes these wouldnt be happening if the people making the game didnt see a desparity.. not me, nor anyone else posting on the forums can enact a change like this.  Sony has probably terrabytes of collected data with which to validate that summoners are doing more damage than intended.. and Rangers less than intended... changes go in to fix that... its pretty simple really.and Ali, i bet if you searched you'll find the out cry by the Rangers you dislike so much is because the nerf went too far, NOT because they were nerf'd.. 90% of the posts I have read agree with a reduction in Ranger damage.Adjustments are gonna happen.. adapt to it.. most Rangers have adapted by now.. some changed their play style.. some moved on to something more fun in other classes.. and besides.. these changes to summoners are minor really. their play style wont be that affected, the little yellow numbers will just be a bit less.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:22 AM   #16
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I love watching my conjuror guild mates in PPTR just resummon there pet after each huge hp trash encounter to have a pet with full power for each wave, where as I am stuck to try and regen power before the next fight and they are unaffected not to mention with the new summoner AAs its getting a little out of hand with criticals, I have parsed there attacks, 50-70% of them now being crits, is this intended for a class to be able to crit this much, in a duel they get me down in the red before I can even cast one .5 sec attack.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:23 AM   #17
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the high crit chance is a BUG with that AA and is already fixed on test, just needs to be pushed to live servers. lol

cause yes, the crit chance the bugged AA gives at the moment is just slightly insane. lol

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Old 03-08-2006, 02:31 AM   #18
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Silly me the notes has been edited too.I don't care about DPS nerf, but i'll loose my loved stoneskin, too ubber for PvP purpose i'm sure, it even protects me from HT.

Message Edited by Master71 on 03-07-200610:38 PM

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Old 03-08-2006, 02:34 AM   #19
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Geothe wrote:

the high crit chance is a BUG with that AA and is already fixed on test, just needs to be pushed to live servers. lol

cause yes, the crit chance the bugged AA gives at the moment is just slightly insane. lol


Good to know =p
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:34 AM   #20
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At this time, those changes aren't ever going live, at least not in the way that they were mentioned in the update notes. I'm not sure what Lockeye is planning on changing, if anything, in upcoming updates at this point.
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:50 AM   #21
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Hey BG, how about telling us what you and Lockeye are thinking about. What's the overall objective?I think most summoners would be happy to hear what you're planning and give early feedback. Yeah some people don't want the class touched at all, and they'll even complain summoners are under power, hehe! But from my experience in the forumns, there are alot of reasonable people that recognize that we're deeling with a small bit of real imbalance, and a HUGE amount of perceived imbalance. I'd like to see the class.Do you two agree or disagree that over time, summoners are designed to be a top DPS class? Not burst nukers, if not, what role do you see summoners playing?
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Old 03-08-2006, 02:58 AM   #22
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People need to get this notion of Burst and Sustained DPS out of there heads. It's a Myth.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:01 AM   #23
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Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

You're an idiot.  You show me where it says rangers are supposed to do the best damage period and I'll agree to being nerfed.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:02 AM   #24
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Blackguard wrote:At this time, those changes aren't ever going live, at least not in the way that they were mentioned in the update notes. I'm not sure what Lockeye is planning on changing, if anything, in upcoming updates at this point.

My guess is there are about 100,000 accounts with a necro on it and even though they are completly over powered on raids sony wont touch them because Necros and Conjurors are the "we suck at gaming class" so when a skilled player plays one it is over powered, but when your normal run of the mill eq2 player plays them they are just average.

My vote /stealth nerf dumbfire pets

 

Message Edited by Modean on 03-07-200602:05 PM

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Old 03-08-2006, 03:02 AM   #25
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Why?Whats mythical about it?5 + 5 = 102 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 10.Two ways of getting to the same number in different ways.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:18 AM   #26
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Zald wrote:Why?Whats mythical about it?5 + 5 = 102 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 10.Two ways of getting to the same number in different ways.
Because as Asterra once posted, their is no Magical Moment where a Wizard fires 5 Icecomets ate once, nor is their some time when a ranger shoots a 100 arrows.
 
Sure some CA have more damage than others, but over long fights DPS output is pretty steady for any class.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:20 AM   #27
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"Sure some CA have more damage than others, but over long fights DPS output is pretty steady for any class"

 

Which are a fraction of a fraction of the encounters in the ENTIRE GAME.

 

Message Edited by Geothe on 03-07-200602:20 PM

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Old 03-08-2006, 03:34 AM   #28
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ChaosUndivided wrote:

Zald wrote:Why?Whats mythical about it?5 + 5 = 102 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 10.Two ways of getting to the same number in different ways.
Because as Asterra once posted, their is no Magical Moment where a Wizard fires 5 Icecomets ate once, nor is their some time when a ranger shoots a 100 arrows.
 
Sure some CA have more damage than others, but over long fights DPS output is pretty steady for any class.

So what 1 IC is twice the damage any 1 summoner attack can do. The point is that the tier trees were never meant to say that only Rangers and wizard can damage a mob, it wasn't even to say that in every situation they would dominate every other class.Specificaly, summoners are a DPS class, they just do it in a different way, AND have the potential to drop down in class and perform a different role.I've seen complete BS posts that say necros are out DPSing wizards without pets. Thats complete BS unless the necro is using a bugged ability. All necro spells are WOEFULLY less powerful that a same level. The necro spell set take nibbles out of the mob, where as wizards take big fat man sized bites. And when played well and including pets, our little nibbles compare well with other classes big bites.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:41 AM   #29
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Nainitsuj wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

You're an idiot.  You show me where it says rangers are supposed to do the best damage period and I'll agree to being nerfed.
You no read so well, eh?
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:47 AM   #30
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Sirlutt wrote:

KBern wrote:

Sirlutt wrote:had me excited for a minute.. here i was thinking you guys were actually aware that summoners are doing fantastic damage.. silly me.I expect it'll make it to the test server and then live soon enough so summoners can be back to being where they are supposed to be in the DPS tree instead of far above everyone else. ala Rangers...ballance on ..

Cry more, the devs may hear you.
check the patch notes buddy.. they did hear the Rangers.

Has anyone ever noticed a distinct lack of maturity in say, oh 90%, of the ranger posts in any forum? Maybe it's just me.
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