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Old 01-21-2006, 03:47 AM   #1
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I was thinking about making one, if there gonna get nerfed will they still be worth playing?
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Old 01-21-2006, 04:41 AM   #2
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they are getting nerfed.
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Old 01-21-2006, 04:41 AM   #3
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Our swarm/dumbfire pets will now take AE damage.  Thats the only major change that I can think of that affects us directly.
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Old 01-21-2006, 04:43 AM   #4
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Which is a minor change, and not really worth considering if you want a necro.They'll still be a great class, same with Conjurors.
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Old 01-21-2006, 05:05 AM   #5
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Magus` wrote:Which is a minor change, and not really worth considering if you want a necro.They'll still be a great class, same with Conjurors.

Minor change?
 
I'm sitting at 60 Necro and I'm looking at a 8-10% reduction in DPS, but SPECIFICALLY against epic and high lvl end game mobs (IE  the only f'ing ones I fight at this lvl).
 
Minor?  Yep... just like the 15% reduction we took in Lich last patch... but it adds up.
 
 
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Old 01-21-2006, 05:23 AM   #6
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so hmm, is that 15% really that much :smileytongue:
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Old 01-21-2006, 05:46 AM   #7
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Well Lich was hella' powerful, and we could get into T1 DPS in normal fights if fully upgraded (adept3+), so they got rid of that.  Which was warrented, but they said at the time that we were then were they wanted us to be.
 
These days only under IDEAL circumstances (long espically power-hugnry fights -- named, epic, heroic, etc) can we ever get close to T1 and the new patch is going to remove that, previously class defining, chararcteristic. (just like other classes do better against groups VS solo mobs)
 
And the kicker is that the whole thing is actually removing a fix they put in 2 patches ago for a bug they introduced 4 patches ago.
 
 
 
Anyway, Necros are still fun, they have become alot more commonplace since the combat revamp.  If you haven't played a summoner, or caster yet in EQ2 I'd still recommend it.  Its just that personally I picked the class exactly because they were supposed to have traded power against 'everyday' mobs that you'd fight millions of.  Mobs that wizzys burst dmg, or a warlocks AoE dmg are better suited for.  Necros were masters of the long fight.  The named epic, less common, group stuff.  We had better power regen and lifetaps, combined with single target DoTs made us better the longer the fight would last, and single target best.  Other's DPS would wane and we'd match the T1 DPS classes since they would average down as power is used up while we stayed consistant and increased as we stacked mroe DoT's.
 
So this patch hurts me.. it directly targets THE THING about necros that I picked.  Since like others said, we can try to position pets behind non-named mobs and avoid this nerf to our dumbfire pets, but epics and end-game have 360 degree AoEs going off on 30s timers and the pets have NO hp and give us their accumulated aggro when they die, so we are just plain nerfed without recourse there.
 
Anyway, make one, they are fun.. just LESS fun when you cap, after this change.
 
 
 
 

Message Edited by Gargamel on 01-20-200607:58 PM

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Old 01-21-2006, 07:59 AM   #8
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Agree 100% Gargamel. Accepted all other nerfs but this ones gonna hurt. Enjoyed and had fun playing my necro but now hes lvl60 and raiding full time and in his prime kinda makes me sad that this nerf is happening with no justification.

Well i have a Monk lvl50 and lvl54 fury to fall back on but got to admit the necro was hardest to bring up through the lvls but favorite, just hope i dont have to retire him.:smileysad:

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Old 01-21-2006, 12:17 PM   #9
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yeah, they have never made any nerf that is really all that bad but when you add them up we are getting the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] beat out of us by the nerf stick.  [Removed for Content] are they doing this to our DPS when rangers do like 400 DPS more than us on raids?  is T1 to T2 supposed to be more than 400 DPs nextS?  it just aggravates me they can take this away from us when rangers do such sickeningly high DPS and not to mention that they never have a mob they can't do DPS too all they need to do is switch out arrow types (granted it's a pain but still have the option) while we do 400 less DPS on regular mobs and ones that are disease immune we do [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near 0 DPS like on captain graul in FoL that is disease and pierce immune we just can't do anything hardly.  i will admit however we do do really nice DPS normally it isn't out of line with most other classes DPS.what is up with this they need to atleast give us something to make up for this like group buffs effecting them, anything at all to try to keep this from totally screwing us.  i know this won't ruin the class but you know that if we don't complain now next thing we know they will roll out yet another necro nerf cause this trend just does not seem to be changing any time soon.  i agree that some classes need more DPS but we DO NOT need a nerf.-15% last time-8% this timewhat is next?(hope there won't be a next time but let's be honest if SOE gives you something it is only a matter of time before they decide to try to micromanage instead of addressing much larger problems with the game and ruining it so thoroughly it requires a total revamp)i hate to rant but it feels like they are slowly trying to nerf our DPS into nothing patch by patch.
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Old 01-21-2006, 01:08 PM   #10
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im not entirely sure its going to make as much difference as people think - sure the pets will all die when the aoe goes on, but on a majority of the boss mobs we are raiding (Gates, Court, Poets:R) I see 'rotting packhound hit xxx but failed to inflict any damage' over and over again in my combat window.  only time will tell i guess as there doesn't seem to be any hint of this nerf to a fix to a problem being reversed.
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Old 01-21-2006, 10:12 PM   #11
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Tinantier wrote:im not entirely sure its going to make as much difference as people think - sure the pets will all die when the aoe goes on, but on a majority of the boss mobs we are raiding (Gates, Court, Poets:R) I see 'rotting packhound hit xxx but failed to inflict any damage' over and over again in my combat window.  only time will tell i guess as there doesn't seem to be any hint of this nerf to a fix to a problem being reversed.

Thats because the mob you're fighting is crush immune. One of the fundamental parts of getting a very high dps is  knowing what type of damage the mob is immune to. If it is immune to crush, don't waste time casting dogs. If it is immune to poison, don't use the scout or warlock pet. If its immune to pierce, use the warlock. etc etc etc

 

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Old 01-23-2006, 03:25 PM   #12
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Tinantier wrote:im not entirely sure its going to make as much difference as people think - sure the pets will all die when the aoe goes on, but on a majority of the boss mobs we are raiding (Gates, Court, Poets:R) I see 'rotting packhound hit xxx but failed to inflict any damage' over and over again in my combat window.  only time will tell i guess as there doesn't seem to be any hint of this nerf to a fix to a problem being reversed.


What i find important as well is the aggro which will really add up when those dogs have to be cast multiple times during a fight.

The fact that we can't take hits from epics is a minor detail compared to the terrible things that a turning epic can do.

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Old 01-23-2006, 07:24 PM   #13
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Im not so sure that the swarm pets dying to AE will have any impact on our aggro - other than lowering it since they are doing less damage. 

As it is now, the dogs poof every 60s and give 60s worth of thier hate to us.  After the changes, they will most likely be killed after thirty seconds and will only transfer that hate to us.  All in all, they will only be up about half as much and in turn give us less damage and hate.

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Old 01-23-2006, 07:39 PM   #14
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disagree.
In 60s time we will have 2 packs of dogs' hate transferred to us.
I don't think the duration of the dogs will make much difference here.  (off course i could be wrong)
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Old 01-23-2006, 07:48 PM   #15
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Hmm - the recast on the dogs is 45 secs, so you will only get the dogs out for the first 30 secs, then you can recast them after the 45s recast is up and use them for about 10-15 secs before the next AE or hold them until after that next AE to get the most use out of them.  So in long fights you will actually just want to cast them one time every minute (with the exception being the end of the fight on occasion).

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Old 01-23-2006, 09:06 PM   #16
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Gargamel wrote:
Minor change?
 
I'm sitting at 60 Necro and I'm looking at a 8-10% reduction in DPS, but SPECIFICALLY against epic and high lvl end game mobs (IE  the only f'ing ones I fight at this lvl).

You're done with ALL of your quests?? You only pull your necro out for raids? 
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:58 PM   #17
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I really don't mind the change.  Yes its a minor hit to dps but in all honesty its going to make raiding a little more challenging and with that, more fun overall.  I enjoy the game most when I have to strategize during a fight and decide when to cast what, etc. etc. So, I'm jousting with the pet and now I'm going to be timing the dogs on the "Melee In" call... neato.  It bores me to tears to just sit back and rot dot with no thought involved.

I do think that it ought to apply to all classes though but its not a game killer for me and I certainly wouldn't advise someone not to play the class because of it.

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Old 01-24-2006, 12:00 AM   #18
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How does whether or not he/she has completed all his quests have anything to do with the topic? The fact remains that at any level the best way to get the best stuff is from raiding or buying loot fromn the vendorr that came from raids. I dont know how your server works but ours goes soomething like this....the most active players are mostly in raid guilds or want to be in raid guilds or have joined alliances with other guilds to raid.....(with teh exception of a few crafter or quest guilds that eventaully dissolve from ppl leaving to raid guilds or from dissinterest).
 
Now your telling these ppl who are Sonies biggest fans/critics cause they are on everyday for hours upon hours raiding that their dps is cut by15% for the very thing they log in for? that is why its a problem. Im not saying Im here to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about what is being done cause I gave up on complaining to sony but I will say I know very few ppl who play this game to "finish all the quest" and those that we do know that do this are considered weird by many other. More like freaks.
 
So while I can be wrong on everything I posted I am not wrong by saying questing and reducing 15% damage on raid mobs have absolutely nothing to do with the other .......................................
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Old 01-24-2006, 01:00 AM   #19
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Oh yeah forgot my opinion.....

 

These limit'd pets our are effectively our stongest dots. Becase they have a graphical form of animals allows sony to dissolve them? Seems wrong when viewed from that point. I could be wrong but does any other class have a dot that can be taken off the mob their attacking by any sort of aoe damage? From my knowedge I would say no. I mean imagine if the dogs and rats and whatever didnt have physical appreances and were just 30-60 second DOTs (which they are) and you just casted them on the Mob and becuase he did an AOE they disappeared? That would be wrong.

Lets look at this from another angle. Say we are eqauting the destruction of the pets in a similiar way as a Wizzie or Warlock getting Their Nukes resisted.... Well as someone earlier posted about our pets, even though they are up,.. the pets are also getting resisted on certain instances so in this part we are just like other classes but now they add AOE damage as a factor on our DOT. Kinda like saying a if a wizzie casted a nuke within ten seconds before or after Epic AOE that it would be limit'd damge.. Seems pretty wrong ...right.? Well essentially they are doing just that to us.... Taking away a DOT's efectiveness due to Epic AOE..... doesnt jive with all other classes having anything similiar penalty wise.

So again sony is doing something completely absurd and I know why ..its cuase all those Parsers during raids and the T1 DPS classes are tweaking out. They want the best DPS in short bursts and in long durations as well  now I guess.

All in all though correct me if Im wrong. Does any other class have a spell cut up to pieces cause of an Epics AOE? I dont think so. Does it seem fair that only a couple classes should have their spells affected by AOE? I dont think so. Now I know some may be thinking about when they get stifled or interupted by mobs AOEs but we do get that too..except now our DOTs are getting hosed by the Mob too... Imagine if your ranger had his spells reduced by15% because he was fighting an Epic...no one would stand for that....

Completey poor thinking by Sony on this one. Unfortunately I'd almost like top leave it as is cause if Sony actaully reads this and agrees with this ...they'll think to themselves "This guy is right...lets just get rid of the Epic AOE affect cause it is unfair and lets just nerf the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of their overall DPS so it affects them on non raid mobs too".....

Sometimes the alternative is just too scary to consider and you have to leave well enough alone>

Message Edited by Nosnema on 01-23-200612:10 PM

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Old 01-24-2006, 01:56 AM   #20
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WooTastic wrote:

Gargamel wrote:
Minor change?
 
I'm sitting at 60 Necro and I'm looking at a 8-10% reduction in DPS, but SPECIFICALLY against epic and high lvl end game mobs (IE  the only f'ing ones I fight at this lvl).

You're done with ALL of your quests?? You only pull your necro out for raids? 

Basically.... Find me a quest that will upgrade my gear or give me some kind of cool item. I have all my arena champs... I have my prismatic 2.0.. I just need another godking run for my super[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty vessel.. There is no quest currently in game that rewards me with anything useful other than saying I've completed my 447th quest.
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Old 01-24-2006, 03:35 AM   #21
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Tinantier wrote:im not entirely sure its going to make as much difference as people think - sure the pets will all die when the aoe goes on, but on a majority of the boss mobs we are raiding (Gates, Court, Poets:R) I see 'rotting packhound hit xxx but failed to inflict any damage' over and over again in my combat window.  only time will tell i guess as there doesn't seem to be any hint of this nerf to a fix to a problem being reversed.

I'm lvl 60 fully loaded with adept3's but master 2 dogs and master1 consumption from lvl 52 training.

I've been running the parser alot lately in Poets, Mesa, etc and I'm fiding my dogs doing anywhere from 8-18% of my DPS depending on how early I get them off, if I use consumption, if I cast my debuffs, resistances of mob to disease, etc.

Perhaps you are using an app verison of hounds on orange mobs?  (My master pets hit regularly even on lvl 64^^^ named mobs in poets)

 

 

 

Message Edited by Gargamel on 01-23-200605:38 PM

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Old 01-24-2006, 06:04 AM   #22
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The problem is when they nerf the Necro DPS, it is all the class has when you think about it. This class has very little utility imho ( partly because roots/stuns/fear are soo nerfed ) so when you reduce the class to be a lower tier dps you goto ask yourself why? cause it isnt fair that a dps class gets all the other... err wait there isnt much of any other stuff for the class.....
 
Break it down this class is literally dps and that is it, why shouldnt a necro be in the top tier of dps? because we can buff disease and poisen resists? hahah!  Or maybe because a class that can fear a mob for 1 sec if your lucky shouldnt have dps! 1 sec fear is way uber! ( if you can even fear since all epic immu8ne )...
 
So ya sorry any loss of dps really hurts a necro we dont offer up much more than dps imho, is my biggest disspointment in the class they really gutted  most of the utility.
 
The class could really use an undead mez ( i know we got charm ), it could really use some debuffs ( i know we got the one pitiful sta /wis debuff ), and it could use a little more group utility like the fact they made all invis equal, as opposed to having invis undead, or floating like eq1 had for necro, even the way mana transfer abilites are very much inconsequntial now.
 
Pen and paper it out and you will be shocked to find how many classes offer up far more group utility than necros do.
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:20 AM   #23
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Do you know what really grinds my gears?

They give us the crappiest utility in the world and expect us to just take these dps nerfs because of it. What do we have we have a stun/root/fear all of which do not work on epic mobs. A pitiful debuff in comparison to a lot of debuffs out there. We get a feign death that has a 15 min recast timer. Would it be that over powering to bring it down to 5 min? The answer is no it wouldn't it would make up for the lich nerf they pulled on us. Oh and the highlight of necro utility our REZ! oh wait no that sucks too, because of a stupid [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] spell they gave all priests so that any class can rez a healer. Well there goes our class defining utility spell. Sorry, I forgot one more we can pass out hearts, but with all the crazy mana regen on items now and just the fact that epic encounters just don't last that long, mana regen from hearts is not as good as it was. You know I really wouldn't care about our lich/dumbfire nerfs if they would just give us better utility. Those Rez tokens are a joke and SOE still hasn't realized that. Lets give every class a rez.....great idea. IDIOTS! I remember when our superior mana regen use to actually mean something and bring something to raid.

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Old 01-24-2006, 11:43 AM   #24
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Whiners.... for the most partYeah i think it sucks that the dogs are re-nerfed back to taking AOE damage. Yes i agree it will affect necros greatly on epic mobs.I just can't stand to hear people say necros have no utility. Why do you care so much how you compare to other classes? Shouldn't you care more about how you are improving yourself? So Sony takes "8-18%" of your DPS. Make it up somewhere. Can't cast the dogs? Try something else. Try timing your dogs with the AE. Try using a diff dot cycle. Try healing that stupid ranger that just pulled agro cuz he doesn't know how to control his dps. Try doing anything that makes YOU a better player.In the end, it doesn't matter what Sony does to my classes, I will find a way to be the best I can possibly be at that class. I dont' care if a ranger can do more dps, a priest can heal better, or a guardian tank better, in the end, if I am improving myself, then I am progressing.
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:43 AM   #25
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Gargamel wrote:

Magus` wrote:Which is a minor change, and not really worth considering if you want a necro.They'll still be a great class, same with Conjurors.

Minor change?
 
I'm sitting at 60 Necro and I'm looking at a 8-10% reduction in DPS, but SPECIFICALLY against epic and high lvl end game mobs (IE  the only f'ing ones I fight at this lvl).
 
Minor?  Yep... just like the 15% reduction we took in Lich last patch... but it adds up.
 
 

No you aren't. You're only loosing that 8-10% AFTER the dumbfires die.So in non epic encounters, they're rarely if ever die more frequently than they do now. Most non epics don't do that much AoE.Yeah vs epics, this will mean a loss, but not the full 8 - 10%. It all depends on the situation and our ability to keep the dogs alive. Which will vary from encounter to encounter.
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Old 01-25-2006, 01:19 AM   #26
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bezerker_01 wrote:
The problem is when they nerf the Necro DPS, it is all the class has when you think about it. This class has very little utility imho ( partly because roots/stuns/fear are soo nerfed ) so when you reduce the class to be a lower tier dps you goto ask yourself why? cause it isnt fair that a dps class gets all the other... err wait there isnt much of any other stuff for the class.....
 
Break it down this class is literally dps and that is it, why shouldnt a necro be in the top tier of dps? because we can buff disease and poisen resists? hahah!  Or maybe because a class that can fear a mob for 1 sec if your lucky shouldnt have dps! 1 sec fear is way uber! ( if you can even fear since all epic immu8ne )...
 
So ya sorry any loss of dps really hurts a necro we dont offer up much more than dps imho, is my biggest disspointment in the class they really gutted  most of the utility.
 
The class could really use an undead mez ( i know we got charm ), it could really use some debuffs ( i know we got the one pitiful sta /wis debuff ), and it could use a little more group utility like the fact they made all invis equal, as opposed to having invis undead, or floating like eq1 had for necro, even the way mana transfer abilites are very much inconsequntial now.
 
Pen and paper it out and you will be shocked to find how many classes offer up far more group utility than necros do.

In addition to the sta/wis debuff, at 52 (or 53) you'll get Drawing of Souls which is a Str/Int debuff... both of which proc with lich. I never start a hard fight without casting these. 

Being able to FD and rez without having a feather supplied is not too shabby.  No one has a long distance rez like ours and its been quite useful with group members being flung all over the place by the repulser sentinels (or whatever their called) in Silent City.  During raids, sacrificial hearts are a must for long fights... not to mention the fact that we can also supply the healer with needed health to cast their manastone and heart.

Our root is a full minute and while it doesn't work on epics its a "ghetto mez" in a pinch for mobs like The Keeper and Cazel.

Lastly, our Master 2 Teachings of the Shadows buffs Int and Sta by 69 which can be quite useful for the MT.

All of these above things (and I'm sure I've missed some) are in addition to our dps so clearly we have many roles.   

Necro is really a great class and I honestly feel we are always an asset to any group or raid.

Message Edited by Azreaelle on 01-24-200612:20 PM

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Old 01-25-2006, 03:44 AM   #27
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Wow, someone that says necs have no utility really ONLY plays to raid or is completely clueless!Necros have more utility than almost any other class and are probably 2nd-3rd best crowd control in the game, only falling behind the enchanters subs in that category.Really disturbing to see such crap information spread.
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:57 PM   #28
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I think necros have great utility - if you all dont, name some classes you think do?
 
Let's see we can:
 
-FD
-Rez
-Heal
-Stun
-Root
-Fear
-Charm
-Invis
-Pet Pull
-Sac Hearts
 
Umm so we cant evac or mez and dont have a runspeed buff
 
Plus we have great DPS (and it will still be good after the nerf - I will go from say 800dps on a raid mob to 730, I dont want to lose that dps but I will still love my necro), the versatility of using 3 different pets, and some decent debuffs and a nice 30s +hp +mit buff that we can use occasionally.

Message Edited by Eirgorn on 01-25-200609:05 AM

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Old 01-25-2006, 07:29 PM   #29
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Eirgorn we DO have a self evac.

 

Its under the command   /kill

 

 

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Old 01-25-2006, 11:26 PM   #30
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Little Utility??? I usually group with 2 other folks, a swashy and a conj. My pet tanks b/c im a little higher lvl than the conj. I heal my pet and group members when trouble arises. I have CC with fear and root. I can heal myself if i get adds to agro on me. In case of trouble can always FD and rez. In a group at around lvl 50 in CT my pet has ben the MT many times and when we do get a tank in the group, the group then usually perfers to go back to using my pet b/c alot of tanks to AoE taunt and such. When we do let the MT tank on harder stuff i keep him alive with my heals. If he does fall i normally get my rez off on him before the healers can rez and then i heal him for 800 as soon as he is back standing. Can off tank, back up heal. MT with my tanker pet, CC, Rez, DPS, be the main healer if we have a good tank, with FD save a complete wipe and rez healer. Is other things you can do to save and amaze the group. If you cant find utility in this class, you are not trying. Plus 48+ our pets look GREAT!! SMILEY
 
*yeah there is spelling mistakes,,,, im at work and in a hurry not to get caught on the forums*

Message Edited by majin3110 on 01-25-200610:28 AM

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