Will the beatings from Dev's ever end? - Page 2

LygerT · 10-12-2007, 08:10 PM

[email protected] wrote:
actually my beef is mainly with the players not our class, my server has very few talented zerkers and with that goes the overwhelming mentality that guards are the only true tank and people often forget that we are mirrored classes. zerks and guards tank equally as well with slight variances to each class.
lyger,
there's a big difference in a guardian and a zerker... and a previous poster has stated a few of the reasons, and those same reasons are making the beserker class fall short these days..
even our achievements are [Removed for Content] compared to the guardians, makes me almost want to go back down the wisdom line to get stance mastery, if i didnt have to waste so many damned points on the other useless bullcrap in that line, i would do it!!!

point out a few examples then, they have bulking for abilities where we have recast reductions and duration enhancements, only a few examples like tower of stone and block set us apart where we can escape the death effects of UW. the main one to note is the lack of stamina/health and the lack of a self buff to attack skill so our defensive DPS takes a hige hit. the changes to their tree were to bring up their DPS to reverse the effects of the nerf on scout aggro transfers which they really needed.

sure we need some work and i would love to see some of these changes reversed or corrected but you still can't deny we can do the job and do it almost equally as well.

the main issue i see if it continues is zerks will no longer be a desirable class for raids, none of us want to see that happen.

Aull · 10-12-2007, 08:22 PM

Sorry for all my gripes, but Zeuhl you are correct in saying maybe the person playing to the toon has much to do with this all. After I noticed a drop in my dps (soloing) I think my depression is carrying over to my play style. My zerk still does some damage but I guess it is the fact that I notice this more in my solo play, and since I am not as excited as I once was about playing my zerk I am just lethargic somewhat. I am still raiding and trying to get those fabled weapons which should help immensely in my dps not to mention the lack of some master ca's.

I will press on, just hoping that I can get a great roll on a great one hander and masters.

ChopStix · 10-13-2007, 07:19 PM

the changes to their tree were to bring up their DPS to reverse the effects of the nerf on scout aggro transfers which they really needed.

ok lyger,

then why did our dps go down?

i dont want to be almost as good as a guardian... our dps should be alot better than a guardian, as thier defensive skills are better than ours.. but now the guardians offense is as good or better than the beserkers offense and the beserkers defense is falling short.. i just wish the developers could get something right for once without screwing up an entire class... seems like they do it everytime combat adjustments come around... they mess up rather quick then it takes them a year to fix thier screwups...

which in my book ,is crap!

Hardain · 10-14-2007, 04:52 AM

Well if they won't add more AA routes, i think there could be atleast EoF tree revamp, they did speak of it happening by end of the year.

LygerT · 10-15-2007, 05:03 AM

this place is like a [Removed for Content] rollercoaster ride, some people still love the class and others whine and complain day after day. personally the only thing i hate is the stereotyping that we can't tank from our server's players. honestly, i don't care what anyone thinks so long as i parse in the top 5 and am still offtanking mobs or MTing them i could care less.

the few and far between times when a crusader beats me on the parse i shrug it off, the 0 times a guardian has beat me on the parse, well duh... there's just too many "the glass is half empty" people around here. yup, the nerfs are [Removed for Content] annoying and seemingly will never end but you know how it goes, from top to the bottom is how the nerfs go in online games so we are just paying for the fun times we once had.

Schmalex23 · 10-15-2007, 05:24 AM

Well here is my take on the new AA, not just for berserkers but as a balance to the whole game. There are ALOT of classes that gain very little, and alot that gain a ton. Take rangers vs assasssin for example. Rangers have very little benefit from gaining more AA's in the KOS tree while assassins get AE auto attack. Summoners gain almost nothing in the KoS tree while mages gain a drastic DPS boost. Warriors, unfortunatly, are in the same boat. Guardians are going to get a substantial boost in DPS(addition of agi line) while berserkers will gain very little by going deeper in the current builds or expanding to agi or wis. Im sure some of you will argue otherwise but my DPS with time compression saw very little improvement, which was expected because the majority of my damage come from auto attack. Final Int line will yield about half the benefit of TC.This change will draw the DPS between the warrior class even smaller while they are left with greater tanking tools and we have... slightly more AE dps? Yes, we tank well, i am proof and possibly one of the bigest advocates for zerker MT's. But with this comming AA change i see little advantage to being a zerker over a guard. Maybe im just having a case of grass is greener, but i may be a resident in the guardian boards with this expansio n.

einar4 · 10-15-2007, 01:07 PM

What I am personally hoping, and yes it may be a bit of a pie in the sky thing, but that the CA upgrades from 71-80 actually add meaningful DPS, regardless of the AA boosts. That might help to balance out the fact that AA increases will mean so little. I know the beta NDA prevents any valid discussion of the numbers publicly. Hopefully they are talking about such things on the beta forums.

LygerT · 10-15-2007, 06:35 PM

i would hope so, the spell upgrades are the only thing i am really praying for in repairing what we have lost. i just hope there is some knowledgable zerkers getting into beta and giving some good feedback to the devs in setting things straight.

LygerT · 10-16-2007, 07:48 PM

a few simple quotes from the original book that the game came with and the original design origin for each of our classes:

Berserker: "Berserkers are chatotic warriors who inflict heavy damage with all manner of weapons. They protect themselves by wearing heavy platemail armor. Their furious attacks overwhelm their opponents, to whom they show no mercy."

Guardian: "Guardians can don the heaviest of armors to protect themselves in combat and aid in the defense of their allies. They stand firm against any threat and bear the brunt of attacks while felling opponents with any of a variety of weapons."

Schmalex23 · 10-16-2007, 09:43 PM

ah, back when vanguard and plate were different

Jake_The_Lettuce · 10-17-2007, 06:18 AM

[email protected] wrote:

ah, back when vanguard and plate were different

and when rampage owned

Necodem · 10-17-2007, 01:18 PM

What we need is utilities, and I don't mean only aggro tools when saying this. ( ie : an ability to be immune to crowd control )

And for now our EoF AA tree is a pure joke.

Kiyalin · 10-17-2007, 02:20 PM

I'm not raiding top end so I don't feel like a 3rd arm yet compared to guardians, but I'm hopeful that RoK will do more to boost our DPS above them. On the other hand I have heard some feedback on other forums for folks who are in beta, and things may be grim. Guess we are going to have to wait a month to see where we end up.

Zeuhl · 10-17-2007, 07:38 PM

[email protected] wrote:

What we need is utilities, and I don't mean only aggro tools when saying this. ( ie : an ability to be immune to crowd control )
And for now our EoF AA tree is a pure joke.

I agree. Personally would love to see something like immunity to stun/stifle or mez when berserk. I mean seriously I'm a rampaging beast that ignores being hit when I'm berserk, but I can get smacked and be stunned?

LygerT · 10-17-2007, 08:31 PM

we get gut roar, which works on about 2% of the mobs in the game... lol

Zeuhl · 10-18-2007, 06:58 PM

2% FTW!!! lol

LygerT · 10-19-2007, 04:32 AM

i even tried it on the mobs in the new SoF instance, what in the hell were they thinking? or maybe: what the hell was i thinking taking the ability and thinking it might possibly be useful?

i've truly given up hoping and just try to be oblivious to the changes and just do what i can to adapt even when i see other classes getting/having abilities that really make me wonder what real abilities i should have instead of the pure and utter crap our trees give us.

i truly believe there is no dev out there who has actually played a zerker for any amount of time with the recent patches to notice our lack of attention.

i hate continuing on with this bitshfest as much as anyone but when you talk to other classes and see what they have to offer you start to get the glass is half empty approach to most things.

hakedu · 10-19-2007, 07:06 AM

is gut roar really that useless now ? i tested it some time ago, and it worked on most mobs. usually it blocked some crap spell, but at least it blocked something.

LygerT · 10-19-2007, 04:45 PM

pretty much, it is seemingly useless on most trash non epic mobs and utterly and completely useless on any EoF epic fight.

armus5 · 10-21-2007, 10:24 PM

I've heard of the new lvl80 spells and zerkers seem to do better in that than guards. It seems the new AAs would give zerkers a chance to add their increased tanking skills while it gives guards the ability to add to their dps skills.

LygerT · 10-22-2007, 04:15 AM

hearing that makes me sad if it is true, because knowing SoE they will totally botch it and we will be even further down the food chain.

ZerkerDwarf · 10-22-2007, 08:58 PM

Once more I vote for immunity to stiffle, stun, root, fear and charm while in berserk mode.

DasanW · 10-23-2007, 11:41 AM

armus550 wrote:

I've heard of the new lvl80 spells and zerkers seem to do better in that than guards. It seems the new AAs would give zerkers a chance to add their increased tanking skills while it gives guards the ability to add to their dps skills.

Not sure of the new spells/CA's, and I am holding hope for them, but the AA's seem to provide us with very little benefit while giving Guardians a lot more via DPS. Zerkers already have the AOE ability with CA's in openwounds, Bezerker Onslaught, Bloodbath etc... while Guardians have one and then add the AGI line, whereas a zerker does not gain the survialability or agro 'snap', or tanking skill, that a guardian does with any choice.

Again, maybe we will gain some tanking abilities with the new 70-80 CA's but from what I have heard, I dont think holding our breath is a good idea.

Zeuhl · 10-23-2007, 03:52 PM

ZerkerDwarf wrote:

Once more I vote for immunity to stiffle, stun, root, fear and charm while in berserk mode.

QFE

Dimgl · 10-23-2007, 05:47 PM

ZerkerDwarf wrote:

Once more I vote for immunity to stiffle, stun, root, fear and charm while in berserk mode.

Overpowered.Change it so that when we immune the ability it consumes our berserk and attach it to the end of the Perseverance or Bulking tree and you're talking.IE berserker procs berserk, enemy attempts to stun, berserk wears off, stun has no effect. Next CC that lands will effect the berserker if they don't regain berserking status.Edit: Also it makes more sense that we get "stunned" out of our Berserker rage, and taken down a notch to normal. Powerful stun makes us shake the cobwebs out, and breaks the madness for a moment, then we either get hit again and truly dazed, or we build back our momentum into a frenzy again.

Zeuhl · 10-23-2007, 10:20 PM

I think you're on to something there Kemt. Breaking our berserk and not getting stunned on the first hit seems a little more reasonable and with the clicky berserk this shouldn't be a problem to counteract.

-edited for spelling

LygerT · 10-24-2007, 03:58 PM

if i were to ask for any single thing to be changed with our class it would be to fix the range enahncement AA in conjunction with insolent gibe. i find with cyclones it makes gibe almost completely unusable, without cyclones then your AE attacks do not hit everything in range unless you pack the mobs in tight.

pal4266124 · 10-29-2007, 02:00 PM

[email protected] wrote:

Change it so that when we immune the ability it consumes our berserk and attach it to the end of the Perseverance or Bulking tree and you're talking.IE berserker procs berserk, enemy attempts to stun, berserk wears off, stun has no effect. Next CC that lands will effect the berserker if they don't regain berserking status.

yeah, that's a cool idea. it fits fine in both berserkers "image" and his actual role in most raids (OT).

Ashefire · 10-30-2007, 02:42 PM

Very cool idea Kemt.

10-12-2007, 08:10 PM	#31
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	[email protected] wrote: [email protected] wrote: actually my beef is mainly with the players not our class, my server has very few talented zerkers and with that goes the overwhelming mentality that guards are the only true tank and people often forget that we are mirrored classes. zerks and guards tank equally as well with slight variances to each class. lyger, there's a big difference in a guardian and a zerker... and a previous poster has stated a few of the reasons, and those same reasons are making the beserker class fall short these days.. even our achievements are [Removed for Content] compared to the guardians, makes me almost want to go back down the wisdom line to get stance mastery, if i didnt have to waste so many damned points on the other useless bullcrap in that line, i would do it!!! point out a few examples then, they have bulking for abilities where we have recast reductions and duration enhancements, only a few examples like tower of stone and block set us apart where we can escape the death effects of UW. the main one to note is the lack of stamina/health and the lack of a self buff to attack skill so our defensive DPS takes a hige hit. the changes to their tree were to bring up their DPS to reverse the effects of the nerf on scout aggro transfers which they really needed. sure we need some work and i would love to see some of these changes reversed or corrected but you still can't deny we can do the job and do it almost equally as well. the main issue i see if it continues is zerks will no longer be a desirable class for raids, none of us want to see that happen.

10-15-2007, 05:24 AM	#36
Schmalex23 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 761	Well here is my take on the new AA, not just for berserkers but as a balance to the whole game. There are ALOT of classes that gain very little, and alot that gain a ton. Take rangers vs assasssin for example. Rangers have very little benefit from gaining more AA's in the KOS tree while assassins get AE auto attack. Summoners gain almost nothing in the KoS tree while mages gain a drastic DPS boost. Warriors, unfortunatly, are in the same boat. Guardians are going to get a substantial boost in DPS(addition of agi line) while berserkers will gain very little by going deeper in the current builds or expanding to agi or wis. Im sure some of you will argue otherwise but my DPS with time compression saw very little improvement, which was expected because the majority of my damage come from auto attack. Final Int line will yield about half the benefit of TC.This change will draw the DPS between the warrior class even smaller while they are left with greater tanking tools and we have... slightly more AE dps? Yes, we tank well, i am proof and possibly one of the bigest advocates for zerker MT's. But with this comming AA change i see little advantage to being a zerker over a guard. Maybe im just having a case of grass is greener, but i may be a resident in the guardian boards with this expansio n. __________________

10-15-2007, 01:07 PM	#37
einar4 General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 496	What I am personally hoping, and yes it may be a bit of a pie in the sky thing, but that the CA upgrades from 71-80 actually add meaningful DPS, regardless of the AA boosts. That might help to balance out the fact that AA increases will mean so little. I know the beta NDA prevents any valid discussion of the numbers publicly. Hopefully they are talking about such things on the beta forums. __________________ Pagris, Jhervais etc. "Sage, did I err?" Groo the Wanderer.

10-16-2007, 09:43 PM	#40
Schmalex23 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 761	ah, back when vanguard and plate were different __________________

10-17-2007, 06:18 AM	#41
Jake_The_Lettuce Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 49	[email protected] wrote: ah, back when vanguard and plate were different and when rampage owned __________________

10-12-2007, 08:22 PM	#32
Aull Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,429	Sorry for all my gripes, but Zeuhl you are correct in saying maybe the person playing to the toon has much to do with this all. After I noticed a drop in my dps (soloing) I think my depression is carrying over to my play style. My zerk still does some damage but I guess it is the fact that I notice this more in my solo play, and since I am not as excited as I once was about playing my zerk I am just lethargic somewhat. I am still raiding and trying to get those fabled weapons which should help immensely in my dps not to mention the lack of some master ca's. I will press on, just hoping that I can get a great roll on a great one hander and masters.

10-13-2007, 07:19 PM	#33
ChopStix Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 263	the changes to their tree were to bring up their DPS to reverse the effects of the nerf on scout aggro transfers which they really needed. ok lyger, then why did our dps go down? i dont want to be almost as good as a guardian... our dps should be alot better than a guardian, as thier defensive skills are better than ours.. but now the guardians offense is as good or better than the beserkers offense and the beserkers defense is falling short.. i just wish the developers could get something right for once without screwing up an entire class... seems like they do it everytime combat adjustments come around... they mess up rather quick then it takes them a year to fix thier screwups... which in my book ,is crap!

10-14-2007, 04:52 AM	#34
Hardain Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 565	Well if they won't add more AA routes, i think there could be atleast EoF tree revamp, they did speak of it happening by end of the year.

10-15-2007, 05:03 AM	#35
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	this place is like a [Removed for Content] rollercoaster ride, some people still love the class and others whine and complain day after day. personally the only thing i hate is the stereotyping that we can't tank from our server's players. honestly, i don't care what anyone thinks so long as i parse in the top 5 and am still offtanking mobs or MTing them i could care less. the few and far between times when a crusader beats me on the parse i shrug it off, the 0 times a guardian has beat me on the parse, well duh... there's just too many "the glass is half empty" people around here. yup, the nerfs are [Removed for Content] annoying and seemingly will never end but you know how it goes, from top to the bottom is how the nerfs go in online games so we are just paying for the fun times we once had.

10-15-2007, 06:35 PM	#38
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	i would hope so, the spell upgrades are the only thing i am really praying for in repairing what we have lost. i just hope there is some knowledgable zerkers getting into beta and giving some good feedback to the devs in setting things straight.

10-16-2007, 07:48 PM	#39
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	a few simple quotes from the original book that the game came with and the original design origin for each of our classes: Berserker: "Berserkers are chatotic warriors who inflict heavy damage with all manner of weapons. They protect themselves by wearing heavy platemail armor. Their furious attacks overwhelm their opponents, to whom they show no mercy." Guardian: "Guardians can don the heaviest of armors to protect themselves in combat and aid in the defense of their allies. They stand firm against any threat and bear the brunt of attacks while felling opponents with any of a variety of weapons."

10-17-2007, 01:18 PM	#42
Necodem General Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 325	What we need is utilities, and I don't mean only aggro tools when saying this. ( ie : an ability to be immune to crowd control ) And for now our EoF AA tree is a pure joke.

10-17-2007, 02:20 PM	#43
Kiyalin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 67	I'm not raiding top end so I don't feel like a 3rd arm yet compared to guardians, but I'm hopeful that RoK will do more to boost our DPS above them. On the other hand I have heard some feedback on other forums for folks who are in beta, and things may be grim. Guess we are going to have to wait a month to see where we end up. __________________ Kiyalin Corpsebinder, 78 Necromancer / 35 Tailor of Mistmoore Rethlyr Jax , 73 Berserker / 65 Alchemist of Mistmoore

10-17-2007, 07:38 PM	#44
Zeuhl Server: Mistmoore Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 367	[email protected] wrote: What we need is utilities, and I don't mean only aggro tools when saying this. ( ie : an ability to be immune to crowd control ) And for now our EoF AA tree is a pure joke. I agree. Personally would love to see something like immunity to stun/stifle or mez when berserk. I mean seriously I'm a rampaging beast that ignores being hit when I'm berserk, but I can get smacked and be stunned?

10-17-2007, 08:31 PM	#45
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	we get gut roar, which works on about 2% of the mobs in the game... lol

10-18-2007, 06:58 PM	#46
Zeuhl Server: Mistmoore Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 367	2% FTW!!! lol

10-19-2007, 04:32 AM	#47
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	i even tried it on the mobs in the new SoF instance, what in the hell were they thinking? or maybe: what the hell was i thinking taking the ability and thinking it might possibly be useful? i've truly given up hoping and just try to be oblivious to the changes and just do what i can to adapt even when i see other classes getting/having abilities that really make me wonder what real abilities i should have instead of the pure and utter crap our trees give us. i truly believe there is no dev out there who has actually played a zerker for any amount of time with the recent patches to notice our lack of attention. i hate continuing on with this bitshfest as much as anyone but when you talk to other classes and see what they have to offer you start to get the glass is half empty approach to most things.

10-19-2007, 07:06 AM	#48
hakedu Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 39	is gut roar really that useless now ? i tested it some time ago, and it worked on most mobs. usually it blocked some crap spell, but at least it blocked something.

10-19-2007, 04:45 PM	#49
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	pretty much, it is seemingly useless on most trash non epic mobs and utterly and completely useless on any EoF epic fight.

10-21-2007, 10:24 PM	#50
armus5 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 116	I've heard of the new lvl80 spells and zerkers seem to do better in that than guards. It seems the new AAs would give zerkers a chance to add their increased tanking skills while it gives guards the ability to add to their dps skills.

10-22-2007, 04:15 AM	#51
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	hearing that makes me sad if it is true, because knowing SoE they will totally botch it and we will be even further down the food chain.

10-22-2007, 08:58 PM	#52
ZerkerDwarf Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 602	Once more I vote for immunity to stiffle, stun, root, fear and charm while in berserk mode.

10-23-2007, 11:41 AM	#53
DasanW Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 78	armus550 wrote: I've heard of the new lvl80 spells and zerkers seem to do better in that than guards. It seems the new AAs would give zerkers a chance to add their increased tanking skills while it gives guards the ability to add to their dps skills. Not sure of the new spells/CA's, and I am holding hope for them, but the AA's seem to provide us with very little benefit while giving Guardians a lot more via DPS. Zerkers already have the AOE ability with CA's in openwounds, Bezerker Onslaught, Bloodbath etc... while Guardians have one and then add the AGI line, whereas a zerker does not gain the survialability or agro 'snap', or tanking skill, that a guardian does with any choice. Again, maybe we will gain some tanking abilities with the new 70-80 CA's but from what I have heard, I dont think holding our breath is a good idea. __________________

10-23-2007, 03:52 PM	#54
Zeuhl Server: Mistmoore Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 367	ZerkerDwarf wrote: Once more I vote for immunity to stiffle, stun, root, fear and charm while in berserk mode. QFE

10-23-2007, 05:47 PM	#55
Dimgl General Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 381	ZerkerDwarf wrote: Once more I vote for immunity to stiffle, stun, root, fear and charm while in berserk mode. Overpowered.Change it so that when we immune the ability it consumes our berserk and attach it to the end of the Perseverance or Bulking tree and you're talking.IE berserker procs berserk, enemy attempts to stun, berserk wears off, stun has no effect. Next CC that lands will effect the berserker if they don't regain berserking status.Edit: Also it makes more sense that we get "stunned" out of our Berserker rage, and taken down a notch to normal. Powerful stun makes us shake the cobwebs out, and breaks the madness for a moment, then we either get hit again and truly dazed, or we build back our momentum into a frenzy again.

10-23-2007, 10:20 PM	#56
Zeuhl Server: Mistmoore Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 367	I think you're on to something there Kemt. Breaking our berserk and not getting stunned on the first hit seems a little more reasonable and with the clicky berserk this shouldn't be a problem to counteract. -edited for spelling

10-24-2007, 03:58 PM	#57
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	if i were to ask for any single thing to be changed with our class it would be to fix the range enahncement AA in conjunction with insolent gibe. i find with cyclones it makes gibe almost completely unusable, without cyclones then your AE attacks do not hit everything in range unless you pack the mobs in tight.

10-29-2007, 02:00 PM	#58
pal4266124 Hero Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3	[email protected] wrote: Change it so that when we immune the ability it consumes our berserk and attach it to the end of the Perseverance or Bulking tree and you're talking.IE berserker procs berserk, enemy attempts to stun, berserk wears off, stun has no effect. Next CC that lands will effect the berserker if they don't regain berserking status. yeah, that's a cool idea. it fits fine in both berserkers "image" and his actual role in most raids (OT).

10-30-2007, 02:42 PM	#59
Ashefire Guardian Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4	Very cool idea Kemt.