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Old 06-14-2006, 11:33 PM   #1
Cabose

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Today has and will continue to be a terrible day. I was going into today hoping for about a 10% reduction in DPS... well, it appears to be much worse than that. Below are some spells before and after LU24. Enjoy SMILEY
 
Spell:Before:AfterSMILEYercentage:Notes
 
Elemental Vestment: 247x2x30seconds: 171x2x30seconds: -31% DPS: This is used almost every fight for me. SMILEY
Seismic Tremor: 495-1484: 473-1418: -5%: Used Much less but still vital
Shattered Terrain:432-528: 331-404: -24%: Conjurors bread and butter. Used a couple times a fight and accounts for about 40% of our pre-LU24 DPS
__________________________________________________ ___
(Scout Pet)
W. Blade: 572-954: 501-835: -13%
Galestorm: 916-1527: 744-1241: -19%: Increased recast timer +15 seconds
Furystorm: 375-596x4: 280-465x4: -16%
A. Whip:214-500+90x3seconds: 214-357+75x3seconds: -29%
Storm Surge:344-573: 370-620: +7%: I suppose this is supposed to make things all better
T. Attack:382-637: 333-555: -13%
__________________________________________________ ___
Fortunately, the mage pet has been left alone for now. However, taking into account ALL the spells being changed, I am looking at a 20% DPS decrease in my 3 primary spells, 28% less DPS in my scout pet (42% if you count the 14% decrease in group buffs), 14% less dps on my swarm pets and overall. I figure this will equate to about a 25-30% reduction in my overall DPS due to the spells affected, and how frequently I use them in raid. Using a mage pet could reduce this 10-15% MAYBE, but thats completely situational now. I still wish I could fathom how SOE thinks nerfing me will make warlocks/wizzies easier to play...?
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:09 AM   #2
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Cabose wrote:
Today has and will continue to be a terrible day. I was going into today hoping for about a 10% reduction in DPS... well, it appears to be much worse than that. Below are some spells before and after LU24. Enjoy SMILEY
 
Spell:Before:AfterSMILEYercentage:Notes
 
Elemental Vestment: 247x2x30seconds: 171x2x30seconds: -31% DPS: This is used almost every fight for me. SMILEY
Seismic Tremor: 495-1484: 473-1418: -5%: Used Much less but still vital
Shattered Terrain:432-528: 331-404: -24%: Conjurors bread and butter. Used a couple times a fight and accounts for about 40% of our pre-LU24 DPS
__________________________________________________ ___
(Scout Pet)
W. Blade: 572-954: 501-835: -13%
Galestorm: 916-1527: 744-1241: -19%: Increased recast timer +15 seconds
Furystorm: 375-596x4: 280-465x4: -16%
A. Whip:214-500+90x3seconds: 214-357+75x3seconds: -29%
Storm Surge:344-573: 370-620: +7%: I suppose this is supposed to make things all better
T. Attack:382-637: 333-555: -13%
__________________________________________________ ___
Fortunately, the mage pet has been left alone for now. However, taking into account ALL the spells being changed, I am looking at a 20% DPS decrease in my 3 primary spells, 28% less DPS in my scout pet (42% if you count the 14% decrease in group buffs), 14% less dps on my swarm pets and overall. I figure this will equate to about a 25-30% reduction in my overall DPS due to the spells affected, and how frequently I use them in raid. Using a mage pet could reduce this 10-15% MAYBE, but thats completely situational now. I still wish I could fathom how SOE thinks nerfing me will make warlocks/wizzies easier to play...?


It's so hard not to laugh.....Your class was simply put to where it should be.  :'(

Try playing a sorcerer if you want to try underpowered.  It's not a matter of making them easier to play it's a matter of giving them a purpose, we had no purpose other than our DPS, which summoners were head and shoulders above us in.


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Old 06-15-2006, 12:14 AM   #3
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In the spirit of "tuning down, never tuning up" -- they have succeed.
 
In the spirit of "let's not cause people to cancel" -- they have failed.
 
(keep in mind some of these things have been in effect, and operating this way, for almost 2 years.....)
 
They're painting with a wide brush, when targeting specific issues would have been enough.
 
 
It's not enough to reduce the dmg output on the swarm pets, they also increased recast
It's not enought to reduce the duration on a stun, they also increased recast
It's not enough to reduce, YET AGAIN, the duration on the stifle line, they increased recast
It's not enough to reduce the base auto-attack damage, they reduced special attacks, AND nerfed the entire offensive stance.
 
ALL pets got whacked. Tank pet had specific abilities reduced, mage pet got hit with offensive stance change (33% INT reduction), scout pet got carved up significiantly, and swarm pets got taken down multiple notches.
 
I don't understand why the correct response wasn't to tune UP sorcerer classes...... which would have made ALL sides happy.
 
Last bit, and then I'm done...
 
It's SERIOUSLY frustrating to have problems at the VERY TOP SCALE, namely epic raiding 70's with fabled, being used as examples of why the ENTIRE system needed to be changed. The changes made hurt all the way down to the level 12 guy trying to solo (which is SOE endorsed viable method of playing the game).
 
 
 
 
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:14 AM   #4
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That's not too bad. I was expecting a lot worse (and even that wasn't a big deal).
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:23 AM   #5
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This has SOOOOO been beaten to death.

Summoners with Scout-type pets in particular were overpowered. Personally I appreciate these changes, as I will now be able to get into a pick-up group and not have to hold back to prevent my Scout pet from gaining aggro every fight. As ego-inflating as that was, it wasn't right. And they took the time with this change to avoid a repeat of the Ranger debacle. They targeted only the problem areas, and they got it right.

Sorcerer utility vs. Summoner utility has also been bludgeoned repeatedly. Sorcerer's have plenty, Summoner's have plenty. Just let it go. Can't we all just get along? :smileytongue:

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Old 06-15-2006, 12:46 AM   #6
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Although I vote no, I do accept the changes.

Summoners, when played right, are just uber! I have played both a necro and conjurer and will have to say I love, or rather lovED, it. I have not gone in yet to see the difference but I expect I will no longer be able to take on +2^ or +1 heroics. I know my Pally and Guradian have a tough time with even cons, so i expect the same to be with my conjurer now.

I have often loved the solo harvesting, while my pet is spanking the Mob. I do hope this does not go away, but I will keep him in view while he fights now.

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Old 06-15-2006, 12:59 AM   #7
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I play both a 70 conj and 70 ranger and have to say compared to the nerf my ranger took this is a slap on the wrist.
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Old 06-15-2006, 05:35 AM   #8
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foulplay2 wrote:

It's so hard not to laugh.....Your class was simply put to where it should be.  :'(

Try playing a sorcerer if you want to try underpowered.  It's not a matter of making them easier to play it's a matter of giving them a purpose, we had no purpose other than our DPS, which summoners were head and shoulders above us in.





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Old 06-15-2006, 06:55 AM   #9
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:34 PM   #10
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Oh man, i'm sorry, they nerfed ur "godmode" conjuror....U see, even with that nerf ur are still the ubest class of the game....and u will probably always be
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:37 PM   #11
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It wasnt that bad at all.
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Old 06-15-2006, 04:32 PM   #12
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Necros and Conjurors should get nerfed more.
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Old 06-15-2006, 05:11 PM   #13
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Played my Conj last night.  Slightly different tactics are needed but it's still a fun class.  No complaints solo(just takes a bit longer). Haven't tried grouping yet but i would assume we are right online with the scout pet.
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Old 06-16-2006, 02:35 PM   #14
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To be honest, I was very woried about this LU.. But now that i have seen the changes first hand.. I have to agree.. it isn't that bad.. The most noticable difference for me was the nerf to the AE Daze but I get Shattered Terrain next level so that will be a nice boost.

I tried the scout pet and he still takes them down pretty fast. Have not used the mage pet yet but will give it a go tonite.. The Scout pet still has a 10% damage bonus so that was an unexpected suprise..  

The Stun reuse timer wasn't much of a factor and the and neither is the 30 second root. I still enjoy playing my conjuror and am thanking the lord it wasnt as bad as I thought it was gonna be.

Yea we took a significant cut in DPS but I have always felt we were doing too much damage. I was not expecting this much of a damage reduction but like I said.. It seems ok.. The sky is not falling SMILEY

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Old 06-16-2006, 05:24 PM   #15
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please talk for yourself and not others. thank you.

ditto

no big change here, still plowing on as ever.

and i'm kinda glad they nerfed the scout pet, in raids if the MT ever died, my pet died shortly after and then me, even with a paly's hate transfer on i was still way high on the hate list SMILEY

 

 

Message Edited by Purgle on 06-16-2006 06:25 AM

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Old 06-16-2006, 11:39 PM   #16
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As someone who plays a conjuror since launch (and a magician in EQ for years), I don't "vote no" on LU#24.  Sure, I'd prefer to keep the pre LU#24 pets and DPS summoners had, but the changes to my class are ok, and in the case of the scout pet, a little overdue.  (It was nice to have such insane DPS from a single pet, but it was, in all honesty, a bit out of balance.)  Summoners are still respected DPS machines.

It's a game, folks.  If you aren't having fun playing the game, no one is stopping you from rolling another class or doing something more productive with your free time.

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Old 06-17-2006, 12:09 AM   #17
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Hey...I voted yes on prop 614..........

 

 

oh...wait sorry, I am in the wrong council meeting.

My Fault folks....but remember...vote yes on 614! 

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Old 06-17-2006, 12:40 AM   #18
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Hey, if this means my friends Necro is no longer  playing like 3 characters then I'm going to be happy...He would out damage ANYONE we would group with.Oh, and keeping agro from his pet with my Berserker...  full taunting all the time, and HOPE I kept agro through 80% of the fight...  Almost every fight I would lose agro when the mob was down to 10% or 20% of its health.
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Old 06-17-2006, 12:56 AM   #19
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:smileysurprised: They nerfed conjurors?  I can't believe it...Get real.  Did you even read the Directors letter before you showed your utter assenine stupidity?   He mentioned therein that groups of Conjurors or Necros will still have the top tier DPS.  Plus they added the ability to put take on Epics with your abilities!  As far as I know no other classes were given this ability.  Sure did not give it to fighters, wizards, or scouts.So I guess I am now more confused...  You are still tier-1 DPS, can mez/stun/stifle epics, and are still pretty much the most powerful in the game.  What is the problem?  They nerfed my Zerker, SK, and Assassin's stuns/stifles as well as further nerf Wiz's and Inquisitors roots/stifles yet nothing was given in return.  So you can no longer drop into a group of ^^^ heroics nameds and take them down without taking any damage.  I see no problem.  I know of very few other classes that can pop in with light armor and drop ^^^ white nameds without healer.  Now neither can you SMILEY
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Old 06-17-2006, 01:14 AM   #20
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there was anotherissue with the summoners pre lu 24, one that was a result of the uber solo capabilities, the real bad reputation, summoners often got yelled at as anti social and what else, i really hope the nerf that brought them a bit closer back to the rest of the classes helps with that issue.

also i hope that people stop ripping of summoners by charging them far more than other classes for master spells.

Not every summoner was a bad guy that did nothing else than soloing white con heroic mobs and make tons of plats that way.

i really hope the nerf of the summoners will help them get a better average reputation in the long term.

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Old 06-17-2006, 01:30 AM   #21
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DeathRider69 wrote:
:smileysurprised: They nerfed conjurors?  I can't believe it...

Get real.  Did you even read the Directors letter before you showed your utter assenine stupidity?   He mentioned therein that groups of Conjurors or Necros will still have the top tier DPS.  Plus they added the ability to put take on Epics with your abilities!  As far as I know no other classes were given this ability.  Sure did not give it to fighters, wizards, or scouts.

So I guess I am now more confused...  You are still tier-1 DPS, can mez/stun/stifle epics, and are still pretty much the most powerful in the game.  What is the problem? 

They nerfed my Zerker, SK, and Assassin's stuns/stifles as well as further nerf Wiz's and Inquisitors roots/stifles yet nothing was given in return. 

So you can no longer drop into a group of ^^^ heroics nameds and take them down without taking any damage.  I see no problem.  I know of very few other classes that can pop in with light armor and drop ^^^ white nameds without healer.  Now neither can you SMILEY



yay  you get gold  star  for haveing only have  a clue  what you are  talking  about. let me know when  i can stun epics.o and  we have no stifle  wouldnt land  on a  epic even if  we had it.and umm yeah ill just go and mez  a   mob cause yeah im a  conj lol.deffinetly a  good  read preety funny.

and  what is this  abilty as you say... to put take on epics must  be a  new  one.oh yeah and  we  got hit  with root changes  all classes did  and  umm we  wear very light armor.good job on makeing 10 pct of your  post make  any sense  tho.

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Old 06-17-2006, 04:11 AM   #22
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DeathRider69 wrote::smileysurprised: They nerfed conjurors?  I can't believe it...Get real.  Did you even read the Directors letter before you showed your utter assenine stupidity?   He mentioned therein that groups of Conjurors or Necros will still have the top tier DPS.  Plus they added the ability to put take on Epics with your abilities!  As far as I know no other classes were given this ability.  Sure did not give it to fighters, wizards, or scouts.So I guess I am now more confused...  You are still tier-1 DPS, can mez/stun/stifle epics, and are still pretty much the most powerful in the game.  What is the problem?  They nerfed my Zerker, SK, and Assassin's stuns/stifles as well as further nerf Wiz's and Inquisitors roots/stifles yet nothing was given in return.  So you can no longer drop into a group of ^^^ heroics nameds and take them down without taking any damage.  I see no problem.  I know of very few other classes that can pop in with light armor and drop ^^^ white nameds without healer.  Now neither can you SMILEY

HAHAHAHAH Hmmm well, I read the PRODUCER'S letter. We are not solid teir 1 dps any longer, but Wizards aren't any better so I get a little giggle when I realize that.What abilities can I take on epics with? Hmmm I think my Mez spell is broken, I can't get it to cast. My stun that exclusively says Does not affect Epic mobs doesn't work either. Well, maybe its my Stifle. Hmmm can't find that one either, all I can find is where my Stifle USED to be, but now it says Daze...which means the mob can still use CAs, so its inefficient, AND does not affect Epic mobs. Hmmmm what else do I have in there.Well, lets see. Ummm EVERYONE'S stifles got ganked. EVERYONE'S roots got ganked. And As far as I am concerned, I watch WAY more Wizards solo nameds in T7 than Conjurors....and I believe Wizards have light armor too, bt I'm not positive.In fact, they took away our ONLY form of Epic anything, and that was our knockback on Seism line. It not does not affect Epics either.But, I in fact rather enjoyed your story of a fictitious class. In fact, I think the DEVS actually believe your story too.
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Old 06-17-2006, 07:08 AM   #23
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necros are with ya, rabble rabble rabble rabble
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Old 06-17-2006, 10:41 AM   #24
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I'm sorry ... i could really give a hoot less whether or not I"m T1 dps... at low 50's my husband's wizzie still out dps's me like crazy. Of course we duo a lot and i use my tank pet a lot. But my tank pet is going down like a really drunk person at prom... it's ridiculous.  I have ad3 pet and master 2 tank pet buff... there is NO WAY my pet should be getting hit as much as he is. I am not complaining about anything else. I can live with that... but my tank pet should never have been hit as hard as he was getting hit. It's ridiculous.
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Old 06-18-2006, 10:19 AM   #25
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I give a rat's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about the scout pet changes.

I do however dislike the nerf to dumbfires.  I suggest just making them short duration - weak dots and get it over with.

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Old 06-19-2006, 02:53 AM   #26
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OMG! Do you people who claim we were godlike and are still the uberest class even play this game. I cant help think you are either on some mind altering substance or basically talking out of your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

 

I have played conj since release, I am lvl 70 and I can honestly say we havent been fine tuned we have been destroyed in terms of dps, hell I am even out damaged by a fury now and I have masters and fabled gear. I dont think I can be such a crap player to have gone from top 3 dps on raids to like 7th or 8th without there being a major reason for this.

 

I know you think conj are just whining cause they are mad at losing their dps but we have a genuine greivance here, besides whining seems to work for wizards so maybe it will help us.

You only have to compare our present dps with what we were doing to see this change goes way beyond balancing. I can quite understand people cancelling their accounts when they have put so much time and effort into a character only to have it destroyed overnight.

SOE, think about what you have done, you destroyed Galaxies dont let the same thing happen here.

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Old 06-19-2006, 12:37 PM   #27
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Gotta say I'm not a happy Conj anymore either.

Did we need DPS nerfing, some I would say, but not as much as we have been given.

Every aspect of our DPS got nerfed one way or another, longer recast times, less damage done.

Mage pet now runs into mob almost straight away thereby cutting our dps down even further by having to recall pet or recast pet because it got whacked by an AE or AOE. I always seem to be casting this MOF in raids as it runs in to fast.

Scout pet damage seems not to bad.

Tank pet seems to taunt less. AE and singularly wise. Less hps, seems to get hit harder now as well.

Pets will not attack in some places, like on stairs, gotta run up close to mob then press attack button or pet just stands there looking confused.

Overall I would say the nerf was a little to heavy handed and has spoilt the enjoyment of the game for me.

[Removed for Content] I also have a Warlock, now I must play him soon to see what improvements thay have made to that class.

 

 

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Old 06-19-2006, 05:27 PM   #28
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Our scout pet needed a nerf no doubt. But to nerf our dumbfires and even our heals is a bit much. I went from being the save someone at the last second when the healer was busy person...to oops not enough heal sorry (with a master heal). I went from top 10 dps in raids me and my pet seperate to neither being there...a dang SK out dps'd me. So much for even tier2 now.  But dont worry my monk is still top dps...lab raid all 4 of the brawlers with made top 10 for mages only the wizzie and warlock was up there as well.

I picked Necro before it became FotM..but this nerf really was a bit overboard. Guess Xxia can look forward to lots of harvesting and crafting from now on. I am not upset I am not godlike...I never wanted that..but nerfing every single aspect of my class is a bit devastating. I was a necro who liked our diversity but by cutting down on it all it pretty much sucks any enjoyment out of the class.

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Old 06-19-2006, 06:04 PM   #29
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have played conj since release, I am lvl 70 and I can honestly say we havent been fine tuned we have been destroyed in terms of dps, hell I am even out damaged by a fury now and I have masters and fabled gear. I dont think I can be such a crap player to have gone from top 3 dps on raids to like 7th or 8th without there being a major reason for this.

exaggerate much?  I am a 70 Fury with capped WIS and INT and I am maxing the INT AA tree.  My spells are AD III at worst.  When I really, really try I can put out some decent DPS.  It is purely situational.  Given the right set of circumstances, I can be top DPS.  I cannot consistently top the chart. 

I know you think conj are just whining cause they are mad at losing their dps but we have a genuine greivance here, besides whining seems to work for wizards so maybe it will help us.

When did that happen? 

You only have to compare our present dps with what we were doing to see this change goes way beyond balancing. I can quite understand people cancelling their accounts when they have put so much time and effort into a character only to have it destroyed overnight.

The changes had to happen.  Personally, I could care less who tops whatever charts.  I am a healer that can play several roles and I am very, very happy with my character and my game.  If I were to be purely selfish, I would want a god-like character or two.  That way, more people would roll those which would leave less Fury's.  Nonetheless, for the long term health of the game, changes needed to be made.  No class should be able to consistently do things that should not be possible like solo group content.  For that matter, no mob should be chain stunned/mezzed out of the encounter.

SOE, think about what you have done, you destroyed Galaxies dont let the same thing happen here.

I am so tired of this simile.


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Old 06-20-2006, 01:55 AM   #30
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I have nothing further to add except to the previous poster, do you even know what a simile is?

I guess not as your use of that word is quite inappropriate.

Elektra34 is offline   Reply With Quote
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