necros need love - Page 2

The Ban · 09-08-2006, 07:01 AM

EQ2Playa432 wrote:

stgninja wrote:

EQ2Playa432 wrote:
What server do you play on Stgninja?

I'm on Crushbone.

Ah, ok. I'm not. Thought I read that bio somewhere else though. :smileytongue:

You have, I play on the nagafen server and have definately read that somewhere before.

The Ban · 09-08-2006, 07:04 AM

backyard wrote:
These days if you a necro and you come in #1 or 2 then your scouts and wizzards need some serious spell and combat arts upgrades.

Lol or you just don't know how to play the class.

Necros are still really good DMG. Yes wizards are better in certain fights when they have all their spells up and don't die, but necros always win on the zone parse.

Ephemeroptera does better DPS in the long run wheras Ohhm will generally see higher parses.

Well played necros are capable of 1900 zone wide parses. Show me a wizard even doing a 1700 zone wide parse. It will be very very hard to find.

stgninja · 09-08-2006, 08:02 AM

The Banff wrote:
EQ2Playa432 wrote:
stgninja wrote:
EQ2Playa432 wrote:
What server do you play on Stgninja?
I'm on Crushbone.
Ah, ok. I'm not. Thought I read that bio somewhere else though. :smileytongue:
You have, I play on the nagafen server and have definately read that somewhere before.

So I wonder who this person is that has been copying my bio :smileyvery-happy: For those of you who might be interested this is the entire picture which I posted in this thread. I'd really like to see a screenshot of that person's bio and make sure he didn't leave anything out.

Athoras · 09-08-2006, 08:44 PM

Shammi 25028 | 13.82 - Mystic

I have no problems with my dps. It's all about using your spells in a good order to keep your dots on at all times and I don't use Blighted Horde very often since it tends to lower my dps. Now I just need to get a master of my mage pet and we'll see how I do then SMILEY

Message Edited by Athoras on 09-08-2006 10:04 AM

armus5 · 09-09-2006, 12:47 AM

I'm in a raid guild and we've been killing the top stuff for months and months. Everyone's got all masters and all fabled gear. Granted I'm short master arch lich and nightshade. Sure I'm high on some posts, even the assins and wizards slack some times. But in an all-out race, we have a wizard that does insane dps and there's usually an assassin or two above me. I'm coming in more like fourth or fifth on a regular basis, and first or second maybe once a night. Granted too, I'm not using undead tide. Why would I? 15 minute recasts suck. And it also means I have constantly to use Consume usually just to break 1200 dps.

Oddly enough, I'm trading my necro I think for a tank. no dps to speak of so it's not a problem if i'm not on the parse list. And you can't slack off unlike a caster can. Tanks have to be on their toes and it's pretty fun.

The Ban · 09-09-2006, 05:58 AM

armus550 wrote:

I'm in a raid guild and we've been killing the top stuff for months and months. Everyone's got all masters and all fabled gear. Granted I'm short master arch lich and nightshade. Sure I'm high on some posts, even the assins and wizards slack some times. But in an all-out race, we have a wizard that does insane dps and there's usually an assassin or two above me. I'm coming in more like fourth or fifth on a regular basis, and first or second maybe once a night. Granted too, I'm not using undead tide. Why would I? 15 minute recasts suck. And it also means I have constantly to use Consume usually just to break 1200 dps.

Oddly enough, I'm trading my necro I think for a tank. no dps to speak of so it's not a problem if i'm not on the parse list. And you can't slack off unlike a caster can. Tanks have to be on their toes and it's pretty fun.

Only 1200 as a necro. You definately need be using undead tide as much as it is up.

I would say average DPS for a necro is like 1600-2000 with all masters. Have seen 1900 zone wide parses. Show me any other class that can do that (besides conjuror) and you might have an argument.

Necros are a very good class at the moment. Insane DPS every 15 mins, really good dps in between that. Overall I would say that necros/conjs are still the top 2 DPS classes in the game atm. Sure on some nameds when everything works out right the assassins and wizards will beat you, but when it comes time to post the zone parse you should be ashamed if you get beat by anything other than a conjuror. It's a matter of knowing which skills to use and when. Don't be afraid to use undead tide.

Raids are good for undead tide. Ask you raid leader to pull to one spot and not loot the bodies. When you get 8 or 9 of those it's insane (it actually becomes a challenge to see grey numbers over the mobs). Can see 2500+ parses on single targets.

kenji · 09-09-2006, 07:13 AM

Ephemerotera

..........i really dun wanna get nerfed again, can u place those cookies back into your pants? SMILEY

The Ban · 09-10-2006, 01:33 AM

kenjiso wrote:
Ephemerotera
..........i really dun wanna get nerfed again, can u place those cookies back into your pants?

Lol, im confused

say what now?

Scyros · 09-11-2006, 06:48 PM

The DPS nerf was long over due. I hate to say it but we were doing way too much after LU13 and it took the devs some time to get things in oderer. Was it fun having all that DPS. Sure it was. But it's not what we were suppoed to have. I still parse around 1400-2000 on raids no problem. Just need to work on casting order a bit.Before all the nerfs I think too many Necros and Conj relies on there pets to do all the dmg while they kick back. Well, it's time to earn you title as top dps on a raid and not just have it given to you by pet_001.I did enjoy the steath nerf that halfed our pets HP latly. That was total BS imo but oh well, more jousting SMILEY

vinterskugge · 09-14-2006, 04:59 AM

After playing a troubador for so long, my necro is a refreshing change. Only 66 so far, so the only raids I've done have been T6 ones, but I've been hitting up to 1500 on lots of encounters, and even broken 2k when Undead Tide is up. Not bad for an alt four levels off the cap and with no masters.

Mishkel · 09-14-2006, 06:09 AM

I think the OP would have to be more clear in their issue.

The issue I see in this thread is almost every response is from someone who raids in a raiding guild...

I've never felt my necro had a dps problem. My necro was my first character at launch. I didn't play it for a long time but I did craft (I was a sage at launch as well).

I played my Warden more and that pretty much felt like god mode compared to my necro then. Before DoF launched and the combat changes etc.. extra "groups of adds" I called bonus xp.

Anyway..

What I've noticed since I came back (was out of country a few months) is when I'm solo its seems my pet has lost mitigation or some other form of defense. It just seems to take a lot more damage. When I'm grouped up I really just don't have issues.. its mostly solo.

/shrug

I think if you were trying to level solo it might be something you'd notice more.

Scyros · 09-14-2006, 09:46 AM

No pet Mit and avd are the same, but with half the health they take more dmg in relation to their max HP pool. And even still there is no reason you shouldn't be able to solo just fine. Even some heroics are doable with just ad3 pets. I will say this, master 1 pets do make a big difference. Mage master is a huge increase over ad3. You just have to learn how to joust your pet on raids or AE's will 1 shot it ever time.

Colossaltitan · 09-14-2006, 11:36 AM

Necromancers need a nerf, not love. Cry somewhere else, like on the Warden forums, they need PVE love.

Message Edited by Colossaltitan on 09-14-2006 03:37 AM

KBern · 09-14-2006, 04:23 PM

Colossaltitan wrote:

Necromancers need a nerf, not love. Cry somewhere else, like on the Warden forums, they need PVE love.

Message Edited by Colossaltitan on 09-14-200603:37 AM

We are just about fine where we are right now. No love needed, and definately no more nerfs.

There are few more classes who need nerfs well before we do if SOE decides to go down that slippery slope again.

Colossaltitan · 09-15-2006, 01:27 AM

We have an extraordinary ammount of utility and we are T1 DPS.

Scyros · 09-15-2006, 02:28 AM

No way, T2 DPS. I play both Necro and assassin and there is no way my necro can consistently parse as high as my assassin. The only exception would be AE of course. Does my necro parse in the T1 dps range on ooccasion? Sure, but he's also my best gears and mastered toon. Devs have said, that player skill and gear will determin where some T2 classes end up. If you are beating out T1 DPS then something isn't right on your raids. I know Rangers have a harder time getting higher DPS but it can be done. Wizzy/Warlock have plenty of DPS but I'd argue that they need to have their agro looked at. You fix their agro or give them some more deagro and they will easiler out parse anyone.And yeah I know there are some necros that claim to have parsed 3k+ I don't know what they are doing but I'm sure thier gear is not what you would call average. There will always be an elite few that can greaty surpass that of an average player. That doesn't mean all necros perform the same.

vinterskugge · 09-15-2006, 03:16 AM

If you can't outdps a ranger or sorcerer as a necro then something's definitely wrong. When played properly, no-one can touch the DPS of a necro, conj or assassin, and the summoners can usually beat the assassins too.

Za · 09-15-2006, 03:40 AM

backyard wrote:Most of the poeple who sit back and let SOE have their way with a class typicaly dont solo or deal with pickup groups alot. In the case of necromancers, which i am a lvl70 i find my self doing little or no dps during a raid. Instead im the one handing out those sickning hearts the intire raid. You would think our nerfed pets could do damage but instead they get taken out by any AOE and almost every dot, yes you could use the tank pet, but he just last 2 hits, not one. Being usefull in a raid has noting to do with hearts when wizzards and warlocks can transfer mana and not to mention flowing thought armor, any priest and half the other classes can rez and heal. Soe stuck a dagger in the one thing that defined our class and that was our pets raw power. I feel like a delivery boy at a raid more so than a necro, constantly spammed by tells about give me give me give me. Its annoying. They would be better off making a class with only 4 spells. Heal, a pet, mana shards and a rez. theres the easy necromancer, would save sOE alot of money and time instead of trying to "fix" a class.

Then you need help from people that know how to actually play the class. Stop blaming SoE. If you're not doing good DPS as well as helping manage the raid power then you suck at what you do and are a liability to your raid. Learn to play the class. You should be top tier DPS, and be the primary class healing and rezing the non tanks, and be passing out hearts, and be managing your pets so they don't die or mess up agro. If you can't do all that please don't blame the class or SoE. The problem with the necro class is that if you actually play it to its fullest, its an extremely powerful class, if you don't, then its a very weak and apparently limited class. Let me follow you on a raid and you follow me on one. I'd like to see what your idea of useless is, and what the heck you're doing to make yourself feel that way.

Za · 09-15-2006, 03:46 AM

vinterskugge wrote:
If you can't outdps a ranger or sorcerer as a necro then something's definitely wrong. When played properly, no-one can touch the DPS of a necro, conj or assassin, and the summoners can usually beat the assassins too.

Well this is true every 15 minutes... but a well played wiz/Ranger/Warlock... etc... in situation that fits their strengths will still out DPS us... as it should be.

IA~CHAOS · 09-15-2006, 08:03 AM

I have no problems with my dps. It's all about using your spells in a good order to keep your dots on at all times and I don't use Blighted Horde very often since it tends to lower my dps. Now I just need to get a master of my mage pet and we'll see how I do then

Message Edited by Athoras on 09-08-2006 10:04 AM

Haha that made my day. Anyways yes we are T1 dps, gotta think of things with hit points. Labs trash or even most named? nah their hp is nothing. Stick a assassin,wizard and necro on a single target (named) for 4 minutes with all specials up...if you think we would lose, your wrong SMILEY

But yes, often often the wizards and assassins beat me in dps, but I still think we are T1.

Scyros · 09-15-2006, 08:38 AM

I didn't say I can't beat T1 dps classes, simply that I don't and shouldn't always beat them. In my last guild I was the top DPS on most raids. But my necro has just about everything mastered and decent gear. An equally geared and mastered assassin should out do pretty much anyone. Hell same goes for brigands in some cases. This all assumes the perfect situation for both classes on a raid. Now if you are in a raid where the scouts don't have any debuffers or hate redux, then yes a necro will top every single fight period. And in that situation we are T1 relative to the make up of the raid. But you turn the tables and give those favorable aspects of this example to the scouts and thing will be very different.I don't consider myself the best necro out there by far. Hell I'm learning to tricks all the time. But I've play a necro since day one so I'm also not new to the class. My best non Undead Tide parse was Lyceum trash with a 2165.A note also about the "hassle" some feel with the other roles we have on a raid. Well, thats why we are there. Hearts are what, 2-3 sec of time spent giving one out. Res same thing. Thats hardly going to kill your DPS lol. And if it keeps the healers healing and the MT taunting then it keeps you DPSing. I'm pretty sure if the MT died because healers ran OOP your DPS would come to a pretty abrupt end. Everyone has a role to play on a raid. I wouldn't want my wizzy's spending time feeding unless it was an emergency. If people are getting that low on power something in your raid dynamic isn't working right.I'd also be curious what some of the other necro's are parsing out there. I've always been the only necro in my guild so I don't have any basis for comparison.

KBern · 09-15-2006, 04:24 PM

Colossaltitan wrote:

We have an extraordinary ammount of utility and we are T1 DPS.

Three words:

Swashbuckler, Brigand, Bezerker

I don't think I have to go into more detail if you are in a raiding guild that knows how to set up groups.

As long as these three classes remain as they are, they don't need to touch necros or conj's.

Sic Boy · 09-15-2006, 04:46 PM

I just wanted to jump on the side of us kicking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] still. I've played a Necro on Nagafen since they opened the server and am currently in the most succesful raiding guild on the server. If I'm paying attention and doing what I am supposed to be doing the only person that consistently beats me on the parse is our top Assassin and he has some sick gear (I hate you Faabio SMILEY ). My gear isn't even all that twinked out yet really and I'm still getting between 1.5-1.7k on most fights. Obviously a bit higher with UT up and a bit lower on mobs you have to Joust.

I guess my only point is that nobody likes to get nerfed, but sometimes a class really is overpowered. If we have this many Necros still hitting the top of Parses then who cares what we were like before, we still currently have kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] DPS and more utility then most other classes. I for one am quite happy with my choice to go Necro and will be sticking with it for a long time to come.

Jhonas

70 Necromancer

Havoc, Nagafen Server

Message Edited by Sic Boy on 09-15-2006 05:48 AM

ShadowDragon32 · 09-15-2006, 08:31 PM

Im very happy with the Necro in the PVE realm. Scouts still do more DPS quite often, but its cool.

ShadowDragon32 · 09-15-2006, 08:35 PM

Yeah Havoc is a pretty good guild. Im supprised how your guys seem pretty dedicated, Im curious how things are gonna pan out in the long run. Seems like The Kraken is going to be a major hitter as well as DH.

IA~CHAOS · 09-15-2006, 09:07 PM

KBern wrote:

Colossaltitan wrote:
We have an extraordinary ammount of utility and we are T1 DPS.

Three words:

Swashbuckler, Brigand, Bezerker

I don't think I have to go into more detail if you are in a raiding guild that knows how to set up groups.

As long as these three classes remain as they are, they don't need to touch necros or conj's.

Well we do have about 10x their utitlity SMILEY

But yes I see your point.

KBern · 09-15-2006, 09:32 PM

IA~CHAOS wrote:

KBern wrote:

Colossaltitan wrote:

We have an extraordinary ammount of utility and we are T1 DPS.

Three words:

Swashbuckler, Brigand, Bezerker

I don't think I have to go into more detail if you are in a raiding guild that knows how to set up groups.

As long as these three classes remain as they are, they don't need to touch necros or conj's.

Well we do have about 10x their utitlity But yes I see your point.

Have you ever looked at the utility a rogue or brigand bring to the table with their debuffs? It is incredible and much more useful to any raid than our rez, hearts, or buffs we can give.

Zerkers being a plate wearing tank that does t2, and sometimes even t1 DPS are crazy themselves, plus they have some very nice buffs that add DPS to the groups they are in.

And don't take this as a whine that necros are useless, or these classes need nerfs, but I dislike when I see people spouting off about our T1 dps, when there are other T2 classes (rogues) with great utility doing T1 DPS, and a plate wearing tank doing DPS greater than many mage classes and scouts.

Scyros · 09-15-2006, 10:24 PM

Well, most raiding guilds on my server wouldn't think of raiding without a brigand, swash, troub. But they probably would raid without a necro. So who's utility if greater? Personally i don't care. Each class has things it's good at. So as a necro I try to be the very best DPS I can as well as, the best res'r, heart push, extra healer and so on. Now grant it I don't get to raid with my necro much these days. But I have raided with him since the last nerf and yse ther are T2, T3, even T4 classes that can hit T1.BTW this Tiering of DPS was about the stupidest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SoE ever did. I think too many people read the dps tiering like it's gospel and forget that player skill really makes the biggest difference in your dmg. Followed by spell quality. I've seen some necro's with all fabled drops, having like 15 procing items parse 3k+ DPS. Well thats not a class balance issue, thats an item balacne issue. Same goes for scouts. Ask some of the scouts in raiding guilds how much thier DPS went up when they equipped the Ginning Dirk of Horror. You can't measure all of a class based on what a select few can do.

IA~CHAOS · 09-15-2006, 11:41 PM

KBern wrote:

Three words:

Swashbuckler, Brigand, Bezerker

I don't think I have to go into more detail if you are in a raiding guild that knows how to set up groups.

As long as these three classes remain as they are, they don't need to touch necros or conj's.

Well we do have about 10x their utitlity But yes I see your point.

Have you ever looked at the utility a rogue or brigand bring to the table with their debuffs? It is incredible and much more useful to any raid than our rez, hearts, or buffs we can give.

Zerkers being a plate wearing tank that does t2, and sometimes even t1 DPS are crazy themselves, plus they have some very nice buffs that add DPS to the groups they are in.

And don't take this as a whine that necros are useless, or these classes need nerfs, but I dislike when I see people spouting off about our T1 dps, when there are other T2 classes (rogues) with great utility doing T1 DPS, and a plate wearing tank doing DPS greater than many mage classes and scouts.

Very very true. but utility in EQ is something your class has, that not every class is capable of. Almost every class can bebuff, yes a brig can do a hell lot more, but thats not utility, that puts them way up in the debuffing class ranks, Yay they win that one. Honestly I dont scream nerf for my own class, I think we are finally about right where we need to be, zerkers arent SMILEY

but swash/brig/nec/conj are finally hitting the sweet spot. Those four classes I would argue are some of the all around best classes.

Well, most raiding guilds on my server wouldn't think of raiding without a brigand, swash, troub. But they probably would raid without a necro. So who's utility if greater? Personally i don't care. Each class has things it's good at. So as a necro I try to be the very best DPS I can as well as, the best res'r, heart push, extra healer and so on. Now grant it I don't get to raid with my necro much these days. But I have raided with him since the last nerf and yse ther are T2, T3, even T4 classes that can hit T1.

What your introducing here is bebuffing and buffing classes, yes the swash and brig do really good dps but you pointing them out here as being crucial for their buffs or debuffs. Necros are not those so there is no comparison for utility. Wiz/War/Nec/Conj/Assas/Rang if you were missing one would you not raid? Basically I think because we can do as much damage as any other class we as summoners win the Utility, swash/brig win the debuff trophy. If anything up the damage of the pred and soerc and leave us alone I guess.

Message Edited by IA~CHAOS on 09-15-2006 12:51 PM

Za · 09-16-2006, 12:58 AM

Yeah, some of the criteria here is twisted.Necros have more utility hands down... But our overall prowess in any one area is less..Its kinda like saying would you rather have a:- Swiss Army Knife- Katana- Screwdriver- or toothpick.Without knowing the situation the SAK is by far the most useful, albeit if I told you that you'd need to engage in melee combat you'd be better off with the katana. But try picking your teeth or unscrewing something with a Katana!Utility is about overall usefullness in any given situation. Necros have it above all other classes. But in Raids the general belief is that all you need is a bunch of Katanas ... thus why saying Necros aren't "needed" in raids does hold some water... But honestly... necro DPS is high enough that we don't have to be anything more than a low T1 DPS with a bunch of other uses as needed. If your Guild doesn't have at least a few Necros, then they'll suffer in cases where you need a pet puller, or someone to help manage power, or another FD/Rez class... etc... SoE can do alot with their raid level designs to make those skills MUCH more desirable, but then people would whine that you NEEDED those classes to suceed. Damned if they do, damned if they don't kinda.

09-08-2006, 07:01 AM	#31
The Ban Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 113	EQ2Playa432 wrote: stgninja wrote: EQ2Playa432 wrote: What server do you play on Stgninja? I'm on Crushbone. Ah, ok. I'm not. Thought I read that bio somewhere else though. :smileytongue: You have, I play on the nagafen server and have definately read that somewhere before. __________________ Drop your pants and release your fudge cookie... Ephemerotera 70 Necro Ohhm 70 Wizard ETERNUM

09-08-2006, 07:04 AM	#32
The Ban Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 113	backyard wrote: These days if you a necro and you come in #1 or 2 then your scouts and wizzards need some serious spell and combat arts upgrades. Lol or you just don't know how to play the class. Necros are still really good DMG. Yes wizards are better in certain fights when they have all their spells up and don't die, but necros always win on the zone parse. Ephemeroptera does better DPS in the long run wheras Ohhm will generally see higher parses. Well played necros are capable of 1900 zone wide parses. Show me a wizard even doing a 1700 zone wide parse. It will be very very hard to find. __________________ Drop your pants and release your fudge cookie... Ephemerotera 70 Necro Ohhm 70 Wizard ETERNUM

09-08-2006, 08:02 AM	#33
stgninja Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: I'm in your ____, ____ing your ____. Posts: 541	The Banff wrote: EQ2Playa432 wrote: stgninja wrote: EQ2Playa432 wrote: What server do you play on Stgninja? I'm on Crushbone. Ah, ok. I'm not. Thought I read that bio somewhere else though. :smileytongue: You have, I play on the nagafen server and have definately read that somewhere before. So I wonder who this person is that has been copying my bio :smileyvery-happy: For those of you who might be interested this is the entire picture which I posted in this thread. I'd really like to see a screenshot of that person's bio and make sure he didn't leave anything out. __________________

09-08-2006, 08:44 PM	#34
Athoras Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	Lyceum - 9/3 - EXT DPS - Trash Only Allies: (30:11) 30793305 \| 17003.48 [Preynar-Fusion-28652] Zabuza 2686299 \| 1483.32 - Assassin Athieren 2568538 \| 1418.30 - Me Necromancer Ceriaton 2510271 \| 1386.12 - Swashy Rhasa 2496583 \| 1378.57 - Conj Staraya 2267680 \| 1252.17 - Conj Preynar 1977971 \| 1092.20 - Wizard Kall 1913694 \| 1056.71 - Dirge Darkimus 1759092 \| 971.34 - SK Jonwa 1691684 \| 934.12 - Monk Remy 1641167 \| 906.22 - Coercer Frozn 1634620 \| 902.61 - Bruiser Cyberhawk 1625382 \| 897.51 - Brigand Vylia 1560152 \| 861.49 - Illusionist Keno 1088953 \| 601.30 - Coercer Dujoaki 907717 \| 501.22 - Pally Vina 656476 \| 362.49 - Troub Raago 543690 \| 300.22 - Fury Nermal 448686 \| 247.76 - Inquisitor Tophu 342711 \| 189.24 - Defiler Larconzor 148893 \| 82.22 - Mystic Rapack 139120 \| 76.82 - Templar Thornja 97038 \| 53.58 - Warden Onehitwonder 27202 \| 15.02 - Mystic pet Shammi 25028 \| 13.82 - Mystic I have no problems with my dps. It's all about using your spells in a good order to keep your dots on at all times and I don't use Blighted Horde very often since it tends to lower my dps. Now I just need to get a master of my mage pet and we'll see how I do then Message Edited by Athoras on 09-08-2006 10:04 AM

09-09-2006, 05:58 AM	#36
The Ban Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 113	armus550 wrote: I'm in a raid guild and we've been killing the top stuff for months and months. Everyone's got all masters and all fabled gear. Granted I'm short master arch lich and nightshade. Sure I'm high on some posts, even the assins and wizards slack some times. But in an all-out race, we have a wizard that does insane dps and there's usually an assassin or two above me. I'm coming in more like fourth or fifth on a regular basis, and first or second maybe once a night. Granted too, I'm not using undead tide. Why would I? 15 minute recasts suck. And it also means I have constantly to use Consume usually just to break 1200 dps. Oddly enough, I'm trading my necro I think for a tank. no dps to speak of so it's not a problem if i'm not on the parse list. And you can't slack off unlike a caster can. Tanks have to be on their toes and it's pretty fun. Only 1200 as a necro. You definately need be using undead tide as much as it is up. I would say average DPS for a necro is like 1600-2000 with all masters. Have seen 1900 zone wide parses. Show me any other class that can do that (besides conjuror) and you might have an argument. Necros are a very good class at the moment. Insane DPS every 15 mins, really good dps in between that. Overall I would say that necros/conjs are still the top 2 DPS classes in the game atm. Sure on some nameds when everything works out right the assassins and wizards will beat you, but when it comes time to post the zone parse you should be ashamed if you get beat by anything other than a conjuror. It's a matter of knowing which skills to use and when. Don't be afraid to use undead tide. Raids are good for undead tide. Ask you raid leader to pull to one spot and not loot the bodies. When you get 8 or 9 of those it's insane (it actually becomes a challenge to see grey numbers over the mobs). Can see 2500+ parses on single targets. __________________ Drop your pants and release your fudge cookie... Ephemerotera 70 Necro Ohhm 70 Wizard ETERNUM

09-09-2006, 12:47 AM	#35
armus5 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 116	I'm in a raid guild and we've been killing the top stuff for months and months. Everyone's got all masters and all fabled gear. Granted I'm short master arch lich and nightshade. Sure I'm high on some posts, even the assins and wizards slack some times. But in an all-out race, we have a wizard that does insane dps and there's usually an assassin or two above me. I'm coming in more like fourth or fifth on a regular basis, and first or second maybe once a night. Granted too, I'm not using undead tide. Why would I? 15 minute recasts suck. And it also means I have constantly to use Consume usually just to break 1200 dps. Oddly enough, I'm trading my necro I think for a tank. no dps to speak of so it's not a problem if i'm not on the parse list. And you can't slack off unlike a caster can. Tanks have to be on their toes and it's pretty fun.

09-09-2006, 07:13 AM	#37
kenji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 718	Ephemerotera ..........i really dun wanna get nerfed again, can u place those cookies back into your pants?

09-10-2006, 01:33 AM	#38
The Ban Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 113	kenjiso wrote: Ephemerotera ..........i really dun wanna get nerfed again, can u place those cookies back into your pants? Lol, im confused say what now? __________________ Drop your pants and release your fudge cookie... Ephemerotera 70 Necro Ohhm 70 Wizard ETERNUM

09-11-2006, 06:48 PM	#39
Scyros Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	The DPS nerf was long over due. I hate to say it but we were doing way too much after LU13 and it took the devs some time to get things in oderer. Was it fun having all that DPS. Sure it was. But it's not what we were suppoed to have. I still parse around 1400-2000 on raids no problem. Just need to work on casting order a bit.Before all the nerfs I think too many Necros and Conj relies on there pets to do all the dmg while they kick back. Well, it's time to earn you title as top dps on a raid and not just have it given to you by pet_001.I did enjoy the steath nerf that halfed our pets HP latly. That was total BS imo but oh well, more jousting __________________

09-14-2006, 04:59 AM	#40
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	After playing a troubador for so long, my necro is a refreshing change. Only 66 so far, so the only raids I've done have been T6 ones, but I've been hitting up to 1500 on lots of encounters, and even broken 2k when Undead Tide is up. Not bad for an alt four levels off the cap and with no masters.

09-14-2006, 06:09 AM	#41
Mishkel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 79	I think the OP would have to be more clear in their issue. The issue I see in this thread is almost every response is from someone who raids in a raiding guild... I've never felt my necro had a dps problem. My necro was my first character at launch. I didn't play it for a long time but I did craft (I was a sage at launch as well). I played my Warden more and that pretty much felt like god mode compared to my necro then. Before DoF launched and the combat changes etc.. extra "groups of adds" I called bonus xp. Anyway.. What I've noticed since I came back (was out of country a few months) is when I'm solo its seems my pet has lost mitigation or some other form of defense. It just seems to take a lot more damage. When I'm grouped up I really just don't have issues.. its mostly solo. /shrug I think if you were trying to level solo it might be something you'd notice more.

09-14-2006, 09:46 AM	#42
Scyros Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	No pet Mit and avd are the same, but with half the health they take more dmg in relation to their max HP pool. And even still there is no reason you shouldn't be able to solo just fine. Even some heroics are doable with just ad3 pets. I will say this, master 1 pets do make a big difference. Mage master is a huge increase over ad3. You just have to learn how to joust your pet on raids or AE's will 1 shot it ever time. __________________

09-14-2006, 11:36 AM	#43
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792	Necromancers need a nerf, not love. Cry somewhere else, like on the Warden forums, they need PVE love. Message Edited by Colossaltitan on 09-14-2006 03:37 AM

09-14-2006, 04:23 PM	#44
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	Colossaltitan wrote: Necromancers need a nerf, not love. Cry somewhere else, like on the Warden forums, they need PVE love. Message Edited by Colossaltitan on 09-14-200603:37 AM We are just about fine where we are right now. No love needed, and definately no more nerfs. There are few more classes who need nerfs well before we do if SOE decides to go down that slippery slope again. __________________

09-15-2006, 01:27 AM	#45
Colossaltitan Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,792	We have an extraordinary ammount of utility and we are T1 DPS.

09-15-2006, 02:28 AM	#46
Scyros Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	No way, T2 DPS. I play both Necro and assassin and there is no way my necro can consistently parse as high as my assassin. The only exception would be AE of course. Does my necro parse in the T1 dps range on ooccasion? Sure, but he's also my best gears and mastered toon. Devs have said, that player skill and gear will determin where some T2 classes end up. If you are beating out T1 DPS then something isn't right on your raids. I know Rangers have a harder time getting higher DPS but it can be done. Wizzy/Warlock have plenty of DPS but I'd argue that they need to have their agro looked at. You fix their agro or give them some more deagro and they will easiler out parse anyone.And yeah I know there are some necros that claim to have parsed 3k+ I don't know what they are doing but I'm sure thier gear is not what you would call average. There will always be an elite few that can greaty surpass that of an average player. That doesn't mean all necros perform the same. __________________

09-15-2006, 03:16 AM	#47
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	If you can't outdps a ranger or sorcerer as a necro then something's definitely wrong. When played properly, no-one can touch the DPS of a necro, conj or assassin, and the summoners can usually beat the assassins too.

09-15-2006, 03:40 AM	#48
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	backyard wrote:Most of the poeple who sit back and let SOE have their way with a class typicaly dont solo or deal with pickup groups alot. In the case of necromancers, which i am a lvl70 i find my self doing little or no dps during a raid. Instead im the one handing out those sickning hearts the intire raid. You would think our nerfed pets could do damage but instead they get taken out by any AOE and almost every dot, yes you could use the tank pet, but he just last 2 hits, not one. Being usefull in a raid has noting to do with hearts when wizzards and warlocks can transfer mana and not to mention flowing thought armor, any priest and half the other classes can rez and heal. Soe stuck a dagger in the one thing that defined our class and that was our pets raw power. I feel like a delivery boy at a raid more so than a necro, constantly spammed by tells about give me give me give me. Its annoying. They would be better off making a class with only 4 spells. Heal, a pet, mana shards and a rez. theres the easy necromancer, would save sOE alot of money and time instead of trying to "fix" a class. Then you need help from people that know how to actually play the class. Stop blaming SoE. If you're not doing good DPS as well as helping manage the raid power then you suck at what you do and are a liability to your raid. Learn to play the class. You should be top tier DPS, and be the primary class healing and rezing the non tanks, and be passing out hearts, and be managing your pets so they don't die or mess up agro. If you can't do all that please don't blame the class or SoE. The problem with the necro class is that if you actually play it to its fullest, its an extremely powerful class, if you don't, then its a very weak and apparently limited class. Let me follow you on a raid and you follow me on one. I'd like to see what your idea of useless is, and what the heck you're doing to make yourself feel that way.

09-15-2006, 03:46 AM	#49
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	vinterskugge wrote: If you can't outdps a ranger or sorcerer as a necro then something's definitely wrong. When played properly, no-one can touch the DPS of a necro, conj or assassin, and the summoners can usually beat the assassins too. Well this is true every 15 minutes... but a well played wiz/Ranger/Warlock... etc... in situation that fits their strengths will still out DPS us... as it should be.

09-15-2006, 08:03 AM	#50
IA~CHAOS Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 92	I have no problems with my dps. It's all about using your spells in a good order to keep your dots on at all times and I don't use Blighted Horde very often since it tends to lower my dps. Now I just need to get a master of my mage pet and we'll see how I do then Message Edited by Athoras on 09-08-2006 10:04 AM Haha that made my day. Anyways yes we are T1 dps, gotta think of things with hit points. Labs trash or even most named? nah their hp is nothing. Stick a assassin,wizard and necro on a single target (named) for 4 minutes with all specials up...if you think we would lose, your wrong But yes, often often the wizards and assassins beat me in dps, but I still think we are T1. __________________ www.vindicateguild.org

09-15-2006, 08:38 AM	#51
Scyros Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	I didn't say I can't beat T1 dps classes, simply that I don't and shouldn't always beat them. In my last guild I was the top DPS on most raids. But my necro has just about everything mastered and decent gear. An equally geared and mastered assassin should out do pretty much anyone. Hell same goes for brigands in some cases. This all assumes the perfect situation for both classes on a raid. Now if you are in a raid where the scouts don't have any debuffers or hate redux, then yes a necro will top every single fight period. And in that situation we are T1 relative to the make up of the raid. But you turn the tables and give those favorable aspects of this example to the scouts and thing will be very different.I don't consider myself the best necro out there by far. Hell I'm learning to tricks all the time. But I've play a necro since day one so I'm also not new to the class. My best non Undead Tide parse was Lyceum trash with a 2165.A note also about the "hassle" some feel with the other roles we have on a raid. Well, thats why we are there. Hearts are what, 2-3 sec of time spent giving one out. Res same thing. Thats hardly going to kill your DPS lol. And if it keeps the healers healing and the MT taunting then it keeps you DPSing. I'm pretty sure if the MT died because healers ran OOP your DPS would come to a pretty abrupt end. Everyone has a role to play on a raid. I wouldn't want my wizzy's spending time feeding unless it was an emergency. If people are getting that low on power something in your raid dynamic isn't working right.I'd also be curious what some of the other necro's are parsing out there. I've always been the only necro in my guild so I don't have any basis for comparison. __________________

09-15-2006, 04:24 PM	#52
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	Colossaltitan wrote: We have an extraordinary ammount of utility and we are T1 DPS. Three words: Swashbuckler, Brigand, Bezerker I don't think I have to go into more detail if you are in a raiding guild that knows how to set up groups. As long as these three classes remain as they are, they don't need to touch necros or conj's. __________________

09-15-2006, 04:46 PM	#53
Sic Boy Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 19	I just wanted to jump on the side of us kicking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] still. I've played a Necro on Nagafen since they opened the server and am currently in the most succesful raiding guild on the server. If I'm paying attention and doing what I am supposed to be doing the only person that consistently beats me on the parse is our top Assassin and he has some sick gear (I hate you Faabio ). My gear isn't even all that twinked out yet really and I'm still getting between 1.5-1.7k on most fights. Obviously a bit higher with UT up and a bit lower on mobs you have to Joust. I guess my only point is that nobody likes to get nerfed, but sometimes a class really is overpowered. If we have this many Necros still hitting the top of Parses then who cares what we were like before, we still currently have kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] DPS and more utility then most other classes. I for one am quite happy with my choice to go Necro and will be sticking with it for a long time to come. Jhonas 70 Necromancer Havoc, Nagafen Server Message Edited by Sic Boy on 09-15-2006 05:48 AM

09-15-2006, 08:31 PM	#54
ShadowDragon32 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 98	Im very happy with the Necro in the PVE realm. Scouts still do more DPS quite often, but its cool. __________________

09-15-2006, 08:35 PM	#55
ShadowDragon32 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 98	Yeah Havoc is a pretty good guild. Im supprised how your guys seem pretty dedicated, Im curious how things are gonna pan out in the long run. Seems like The Kraken is going to be a major hitter as well as DH. __________________

09-15-2006, 09:07 PM	#56
IA~CHAOS Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 92	KBern wrote: Colossaltitan wrote: We have an extraordinary ammount of utility and we are T1 DPS. Three words: Swashbuckler, Brigand, Bezerker I don't think I have to go into more detail if you are in a raiding guild that knows how to set up groups. As long as these three classes remain as they are, they don't need to touch necros or conj's. Well we do have about 10x their utitlity But yes I see your point. __________________ www.vindicateguild.org

09-15-2006, 09:32 PM	#57
KBern Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,372	IA~CHAOS wrote: KBern wrote: Colossaltitan wrote: We have an extraordinary ammount of utility and we are T1 DPS. Three words: Swashbuckler, Brigand, Bezerker I don't think I have to go into more detail if you are in a raiding guild that knows how to set up groups. As long as these three classes remain as they are, they don't need to touch necros or conj's. Well we do have about 10x their utitlity But yes I see your point. Have you ever looked at the utility a rogue or brigand bring to the table with their debuffs? It is incredible and much more useful to any raid than our rez, hearts, or buffs we can give. Zerkers being a plate wearing tank that does t2, and sometimes even t1 DPS are crazy themselves, plus they have some very nice buffs that add DPS to the groups they are in. And don't take this as a whine that necros are useless, or these classes need nerfs, but I dislike when I see people spouting off about our T1 dps, when there are other T2 classes (rogues) with great utility doing T1 DPS, and a plate wearing tank doing DPS greater than many mage classes and scouts. __________________

09-15-2006, 10:24 PM	#58
Scyros Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	Well, most raiding guilds on my server wouldn't think of raiding without a brigand, swash, troub. But they probably would raid without a necro. So who's utility if greater? Personally i don't care. Each class has things it's good at. So as a necro I try to be the very best DPS I can as well as, the best res'r, heart push, extra healer and so on. Now grant it I don't get to raid with my necro much these days. But I have raided with him since the last nerf and yse ther are T2, T3, even T4 classes that can hit T1.BTW this Tiering of DPS was about the stupidest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SoE ever did. I think too many people read the dps tiering like it's gospel and forget that player skill really makes the biggest difference in your dmg. Followed by spell quality. I've seen some necro's with all fabled drops, having like 15 procing items parse 3k+ DPS. Well thats not a class balance issue, thats an item balacne issue. Same goes for scouts. Ask some of the scouts in raiding guilds how much thier DPS went up when they equipped the Ginning Dirk of Horror. You can't measure all of a class based on what a select few can do. __________________

09-15-2006, 11:41 PM	#59
IA~CHAOS Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 92	KBern wrote: Three words: Swashbuckler, Brigand, Bezerker I don't think I have to go into more detail if you are in a raiding guild that knows how to set up groups. As long as these three classes remain as they are, they don't need to touch necros or conj's. Well we do have about 10x their utitlity But yes I see your point. Have you ever looked at the utility a rogue or brigand bring to the table with their debuffs? It is incredible and much more useful to any raid than our rez, hearts, or buffs we can give. Zerkers being a plate wearing tank that does t2, and sometimes even t1 DPS are crazy themselves, plus they have some very nice buffs that add DPS to the groups they are in. And don't take this as a whine that necros are useless, or these classes need nerfs, but I dislike when I see people spouting off about our T1 dps, when there are other T2 classes (rogues) with great utility doing T1 DPS, and a plate wearing tank doing DPS greater than many mage classes and scouts. Very very true. but utility in EQ is something your class has, that not every class is capable of. Almost every class can bebuff, yes a brig can do a hell lot more, but thats not utility, that puts them way up in the debuffing class ranks, Yay they win that one. Honestly I dont scream nerf for my own class, I think we are finally about right where we need to be, zerkers arent but swash/brig/nec/conj are finally hitting the sweet spot. Those four classes I would argue are some of the all around best classes. Well, most raiding guilds on my server wouldn't think of raiding without a brigand, swash, troub. But they probably would raid without a necro. So who's utility if greater? Personally i don't care. Each class has things it's good at. So as a necro I try to be the very best DPS I can as well as, the best res'r, heart push, extra healer and so on. Now grant it I don't get to raid with my necro much these days. But I have raided with him since the last nerf and yse ther are T2, T3, even T4 classes that can hit T1. What your introducing here is bebuffing and buffing classes, yes the swash and brig do really good dps but you pointing them out here as being crucial for their buffs or debuffs. Necros are not those so there is no comparison for utility. Wiz/War/Nec/Conj/Assas/Rang if you were missing one would you not raid? Basically I think because we can do as much damage as any other class we as summoners win the Utility, swash/brig win the debuff trophy. If anything up the damage of the pred and soerc and leave us alone I guess. Message Edited by IA~CHAOS on 09-15-2006 12:51 PM __________________ www.vindicateguild.org

09-16-2006, 12:58 AM	#60
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Yeah, some of the criteria here is twisted.Necros have more utility hands down... But our overall prowess in any one area is less..Its kinda like saying would you rather have a:- Swiss Army Knife- Katana- Screwdriver- or toothpick.Without knowing the situation the SAK is by far the most useful, albeit if I told you that you'd need to engage in melee combat you'd be better off with the katana. But try picking your teeth or unscrewing something with a Katana!Utility is about overall usefullness in any given situation. Necros have it above all other classes. But in Raids the general belief is that all you need is a bunch of Katanas ... thus why saying Necros aren't "needed" in raids does hold some water... But honestly... necro DPS is high enough that we don't have to be anything more than a low T1 DPS with a bunch of other uses as needed. If your Guild doesn't have at least a few Necros, then they'll suffer in cases where you need a pet puller, or someone to help manage power, or another FD/Rez class... etc... SoE can do alot with their raid level designs to make those skills MUCH more desirable, but then people would whine that you NEEDED those classes to suceed. Damned if they do, damned if they don't kinda.