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Old 03-09-2010, 07:07 AM   #1
Araktir

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I don't know if anyone else has run into Hate issues, but it has only gotten worse for me with SF.

I would pull it a decent amount prior to SF, but now.. it seems to be most every fight. 

I even had a Pally throw Amends on me the other night, and I was still ripping it. :  I can throw up all of my deagro's, and it barely stays below 80%, if i'm lucky.

I even threw a hate decrease adorn on my gloves.  I run nothing but Ignorant Bliss.

Anyone else have similar issues?

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Old 03-09-2010, 06:34 PM   #2
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One of the new red adornments adds a 10% hate reduction onto Befuddle.Another adds a 5% hate transfer onto thieves guild (LOL!)You can get 15% hate reduction from the Int line in KoS tree.And 2 slots (I think? 1 for sure) where you can put a 5% deagro white adornment.

And, btw, if you are ripping agro from a pally when they have amends on you, then that must be the worst pally in existance.

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Old 03-10-2010, 03:26 PM   #3
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I dunno if they are the worst pally in existence, I think something has changed with amends or hate in this expansion.  With my assassin I'm ripping aggro from my pally buddy regularly now.  It used to be next to impossible.  In the near future I'm going to try to get him to go out somewhere with me solo and see if its really a change to one of us, or if there was an unknown group dynamic at play.  But all through SF if I had amends, it was rare my threat meter would get above 50%

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Old 04-27-2010, 04:19 AM   #4
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For once I'll agree with Arthmael here, Brigand's were always at a disadvantage, not sure where i read it but they do produce the most agro out of all 4 main DPS scouts. Yeah Evasive Maneuvers and Shadow Slip will knock you down a few levels but they are only up so often. Really the class needs more in the way of dehate, Swashies and Assassins get transfers and Ranger gets a good reduction, the Brigand's reactive dehate is really not enough.

Raid wise It's not too bad in my opinion but we're fortunate enough to have good tanks, group wise you really do have to throttle off with any tank other than a good Pally and the right Amends target, short named spikes, there is no way the tank can hold it when you force 20-30k DPS in a small amount of time.

If you're ripping with Amends then that's the tanks fault not yours.

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Old 04-27-2010, 01:06 PM   #5
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I rarely have trouble with agro. Between using Evasive Maneuvers, Evade, and Shadow Slip, and a hate reduc poison if needed, I can do all the damage I can and not have to worry about grabbing agro. However, It largely depends on the tank, too. For example, I used to group with this one tank that couldnt hold agro for the life of him, but I have also grouped with tanks that I havent had to use my deagros with.

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Old 04-28-2010, 02:51 AM   #6
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Also depends on how much DPS you can produce

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Old 04-28-2010, 11:07 AM   #7
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stevenbanks wrote:

I rarely have trouble with agro. Between using Evasive Maneuvers, Evade, and Shadow Slip, and a hate reduc poison if needed, I can do all the damage I can and not have to worry about grabbing agro. However, It largely depends on the tank, too. For example, I used to group with this one tank that couldnt hold agro for the life of him, but I have also grouped with tanks that I havent had to use my deagros with.

If the above is true, you must not know how to DPS, heh.

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Old 04-28-2010, 07:10 PM   #8
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Geothe wrote:

stevenbanks wrote:

I rarely have trouble with agro. Between using Evasive Maneuvers, Evade, and Shadow Slip, and a hate reduc poison if needed, I can do all the damage I can and not have to worry about grabbing agro. However, It largely depends on the tank, too. For example, I used to group with this one tank that couldnt hold agro for the life of him, but I have also grouped with tanks that I havent had to use my deagros with.

If the above is true, you must not know how to DPS, heh.

What I know how to do is control my agro. So many people think they are 1337sauce when they can rip agro off the tank in 5 seconds, but quite frankly, it's annoying as heck. You get the mob turning/running, if you have crap gear you will possibly die, and essentially make a group more of a chore. I can rip agro from a lot of tanks. I chose not to, though, because there's no point. If someone can state one solid reason that a brig should want to grab agro from the tank (besides stuff like the tank almost being dead or whatnot) then kudos to you. I chose to take .5 seconds and just hit my evade when it pops up. In my opinion, if you cant control agro, you are just a burden and a bad dpser

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Old 04-28-2010, 08:42 PM   #9
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stevenbanks wrote:

Geothe wrote:

stevenbanks wrote:

I rarely have trouble with agro. Between using Evasive Maneuvers, Evade, and Shadow Slip, and a hate reduc poison if needed, I can do all the damage I can and not have to worry about grabbing agro. However, It largely depends on the tank, too. For example, I used to group with this one tank that couldnt hold agro for the life of him, but I have also grouped with tanks that I havent had to use my deagros with.

If the above is true, you must not know how to DPS, heh.

What I know how to do is control my agro. So many people think they are 1337sauce when they can rip agro off the tank in 5 seconds, but quite frankly, it's annoying as heck. You get the mob turning/running, if you have crap gear you will possibly die, and essentially make a group more of a chore. I can rip agro from a lot of tanks. I chose not to, though, because there's no point. If someone can state one solid reason that a brig should want to grab agro from the tank (besides stuff like the tank almost being dead or whatnot) then kudos to you. I chose to take .5 seconds and just hit my evade when it pops up. In my opinion, if you cant control agro, you are just a burden and a bad dpser

Well the one reason would be for surprise attack lol.

No, that's not true. when you're pushing 15 - 20k dps not spikes those 2 threat position drops, the crappy buff we get, evade, dehate poisons it's really hard to not rip, doable but hard. I am pulling back on DPS, if I don't I spike 30k when I unload and pull agro, Dance of Metal is really more of a taunt than anything.

When you're 90, self buffing 100%+ Crit and DA, 50%+ Potency and Crit bonus you will have agro problems, if you don't then yeah, you're not doing your job properly of debuffing and still producing respectable DPS.

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Old 05-09-2010, 02:33 AM   #10
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stevenbanks wrote:

Geothe wrote:

stevenbanks wrote:

I rarely have trouble with agro. Between using Evasive Maneuvers, Evade, and Shadow Slip, and a hate reduc poison if needed, I can do all the damage I can and not have to worry about grabbing agro. However, It largely depends on the tank, too. For example, I used to group with this one tank that couldnt hold agro for the life of him, but I have also grouped with tanks that I havent had to use my deagros with.

If the above is true, you must not know how to DPS, heh.

What I know how to do is control my agro. So many people think they are 1337sauce when they can rip agro off the tank in 5 seconds, but quite frankly, it's annoying as heck. You get the mob turning/running, if you have crap gear you will possibly die, and essentially make a group more of a chore. I can rip agro from a lot of tanks. I chose not to, though, because there's no point. If someone can state one solid reason that a brig should want to grab agro from the tank (besides stuff like the tank almost being dead or whatnot) then kudos to you. I chose to take .5 seconds and just hit my evade when it pops up. In my opinion, if you cant control agro, you are just a burden and a bad dpser

I have to agree with the OP of the thread in that our aggro control has gotten much worse this expansion -- knowing how to control your aggro does not = dropping your dps in the toilet. If you cannot dps, as a scout, then you are a bad dpser, by default. Contrary to what you seem to believe, no one has come in here claiming to be "1337sauce" for being able to rip aggro off the tank (and no one has said that a brig "should want to grab aggro", either) -- he has come here because of how much more difficult it has become this expansion to avoid that happening, when fulfilling our role (mainly in groups, raids tend to be much less of an aggro issue).

I constantly run the specialist ignorant bliss, as well, have several hate reduction adorns on gear and ran max INT line reductions for a while as well (I respecced out of all but Boot Dagger after finding the rest of the line to be ineffectual despite how the reductions appeared on paper) -- the only tank I have no aggro issues with at all is the paladin, if Amends is put upon me. Even SKs, which last expansion had no trouble at all holding aggro against me going full out, have trouble now, even if I am moderating my dps. I know, and likely the other brigs who have mentioned aggro trouble in this thread do as well, how to control my aggro; the point is that we now hover on the high end of the aggro meter all the time now when fulfilling our role properly, without any means to efficiently transfer any of the aggro away from us.

As mentioned, I had tried the INT line maxxed out in the hate decreases and it had no noticeable effect at all compared to when not specced in it. An actual hate transfer would be very helpful, imo (and not the 5% on Thieves guild adorn =/ )

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Old 05-10-2010, 03:12 PM   #11
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Considering how utterly useless thieves guild is it would be nice if they turned it into a hate transfer without the adorn.

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Old 05-16-2010, 02:27 PM   #12
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You know what, I agree that we should have a hate transfer. Why the hell not? Swashy gets hate transfer, aoe auto attack, sweet temp buffs. Brigs get dispatch, and um well.....**cricket noise** **cricket noise**.

Why not throw us a bone and give us a hate transfer?

But, I don't think we should get a hate transfer for the reason that most suggest. "we have no hate control" "I pull aggro all the time". Hate control is the job of the player, (and tank to certain degree), we do have the tools to control our hate.

I think that we should get it soley because it will from that point forward justify a spot for us in the mt or ot groups in any given raid. That is it. Period. I don't know if you guys notice, but the mt and ot groups are never shorted in the buff department. Just imagine if you had a tasty hate buff and was fully allowed to have a coveted mt or ot group spot because of this hate transfer like the swashies and sin's inherently have over us? This is another major reason why we see so many "swashies are punking me out on the parse!!!" threads in our forums. They have a hate transfer and we don't. Because of this, they automatically get a spot in the buff friendly groups and we don't. This one change would drastically change the dynamic of raids, and would greatly reduce the parse b*tch threads.

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Old 05-16-2010, 02:35 PM   #13
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Remember whey they said that they wanted to equalize the rogues and give both the ability to debuff effectively ect....

Well, if the day comes where that actually becomes a reality, they better give us an f'in hate transfer. This raid essential ability should belong to both rogues, if their goal is to allow any given raid to be effective with just one rogue.

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Old 05-27-2010, 10:27 AM   #14
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I haven't noticed it too much on raids versus our MT.....occasionally I will creep above 90% hate with our off-tank.  This is once I started running IB.

However, in instances, I've successfully ripped aggro from every tank class out there.  I used to run turgur's non-stop, but now, I'm having to run IB instead. 

I'm not sure how I do it, I know my dps isn't top tier by any means.

Which brings me to another question.    Can someone point me to or post one here...I need a reliable CA order.  I know part of my problem is gear and lack of masters, but I feel my casting order could use some help as well.

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