Beastlord changes

10-31-2016, 07:58 AM

Read on discord the other day that beastlord is getting nerfed in KA. Any chance we could get some details on this?

10-31-2016, 05:31 PM

Really?

Errrorr · 10-31-2016, 05:57 PM

If its said in Discord, it must 100% be true.

10-31-2016, 06:38 PM

Nerf #1: BL won't ever get Jcapped again.

Nerf #2: ???

10-31-2016, 09:44 PM

We feel you - Summoners

10-31-2016, 09:49 PM

Jcap proc dps should be attributed to the troub just like prismatic chaos is attributed to the illy. That will end the cries of lost dps from everyone and make the troubs happy to cast jcap on the predators and sorcerers

11-01-2016, 12:13 AM

Why would they nerf BL's? Most ppl cant play them anyway.

11-01-2016, 01:34 AM

Yep. It's one of the harder classes to play well and push to its DPS potential.

However, due to their class mechanics (e.g. nearly all of their damage potential being wrapped up in the six primals, chain-castable within a few seconds), Beastlords got a relatively larger boost from Ire-dread's proc compared to other DPS classes. People got frustrated when they saw extremely well geared/infused Beastlord's solidly taking the #1 slot on the parse. Sad pandas abounded. An uninformed forum whine campaign ensued.

So, what's probably going to happen is:
1) They're going to nerf the class by affecting the only thing that matters to its DPS potential: feral primals.
2) For the first few months of the xpac, while Ire-dread is still viable, Beastlord's will be back in line with other T1s on the parse. (Those without Ire-dread are going to be sad.)
3) The new Epic weapons will start entering the game. They will be Greater Relics. Ire-dread quietly goes into obsolescence.
4) All Beastlords will now be sad.
5) Beastlords will main switch to Predator or Sorcerer, and resent every day of the Ascension grind to get back to AL5 so they can get their Epic on their new main.
6) The cycle of MMO Life continues.

Orrrr... DBG can just wait until the xpac's release day and nerf* the stupid overpowered hammer that caused so many class balance issues in the first place (far beyond just BLs), and be done with it in a straightforward manner, letting people naturally replace it in the near future. This would require a development team to have the courage to implicitly admit that they made a terrible itemization choice in the past and then let it slide for an entire xpac, so, yeah, you can give me some odds on that happening and we'll take bets.

(*My recommendation: reduce it to 30-50 fervor and increase the internal cooldown by at least 50%.)

11-01-2016, 04:47 AM

Was said by kander, but please continue.

11-01-2016, 04:49 AM

This is true, but that isnt what determines balance changes unfortunately.

11-01-2016, 04:56 AM

Entropy said: ↑

“Yep. It's one of the harder classes to play well and push to its DPS potential.

However, due to their class mechanics (e.g. nearly all of their damage potential being wrapped up in the six primals, chain-castable within a few seconds), Beastlords got a relatively larger boost from Ire-dread's proc compared to other DPS classes. People got frustrated when they saw extremely well geared/infused Beastlord's solidly taking the #1 slot on the parse. Sad pandas abounded. An uninformed forum whine campaign ensued.

So, what's probably going to happen is:
1) They're going to nerf the class by affecting the only thing that matters to its DPS potential: feral primals.
2) For the first few months of the xpac, while Ire-dread is still viable, Beastlord's will be back in line with other T1s on the parse. (Those without Ire-dread are going to be sad.)
3) The new Epic weapons will start entering the game. They will be Greater Relics. Ire-dread quietly goes into obsolescence.
4) All Beastlords will now be sad.
5) Beastlords will main switch to Predator or Sorcerer, and resent every day of the Ascension grind to get back to AL5 so they can get their Epic on their new main.
6) The cycle of MMO Life continues.

Orrrr... DBG can just wait until the xpac's release day and nerf* the stupid overpowered hammer that caused so many class balance issues in the first place (far beyond just BLs), and be done with it in a straightforward manner, letting people naturally replace it in the near future. This would require a development team to have the courage to implicitly admit that they made a terrible itemization choice in the past and then let it slide for an entire xpac, so, yeah, you can give me some odds on that happening and we'll take bets.

(*My recommendation: reduce it to 30-50 fervor and increase the internal cooldown by at least 50%.)”

Honestly i dont care what they do, i would just like to know before KA launches cause main changing is gonna be a terrible process at this point not even including ascension lvl. If i have to wait months till ascension lvl 5 only to find out my class sucks it might just be it for me.

11-01-2016, 07:33 AM

idk why anyone would say bl is hard to play... but anyway, the hammer was a mistake

11-01-2016, 10:46 AM

the problem is that the proc in its nature affects certain classes more than others so its just no bueno

11-01-2016, 04:09 PM

very good idea. would solve a lot of problems.

11-01-2016, 04:37 PM

if dirges had something similar sure, the damage from their heal is **** compared to jcap

11-01-2016, 08:28 PM

Entropy said: ↑

“Yep. It's one of the harder classes to play well and push to its DPS potential.

However, due to their class mechanics (e.g. nearly all of their damage potential being wrapped up in the six primals, chain-castable within a few seconds), Beastlords got a relatively larger boost from Ire-dread's proc compared to other DPS classes. People got frustrated when they saw extremely well geared/infused Beastlord's solidly taking the #1 slot on the parse. Sad pandas abounded. An uninformed forum whine campaign ensued.

So, what's probably going to happen is:
1) They're going to nerf the class by affecting the only thing that matters to its DPS potential: feral primals.
2) For the first few months of the xpac, while Ire-dread is still viable, Beastlord's will be back in line with other T1s on the parse. (Those without Ire-dread are going to be sad.)
3) The new Epic weapons will start entering the game. They will be Greater Relics. Ire-dread quietly goes into obsolescence.
4) All Beastlords will now be sad.
5) Beastlords will main switch to Predator or Sorcerer, and resent every day of the Ascension grind to get back to AL5 so they can get their Epic on their new main.
6) The cycle of MMO Life continues.

Orrrr... DBG can just wait until the xpac's release day and nerf* the stupid overpowered hammer that caused so many class balance issues in the first place (far beyond just BLs), and be done with it in a straightforward manner, letting people naturally replace it in the near future. This would require a development team to have the courage to implicitly admit that they made a terrible itemization choice in the past and then let it slide for an entire xpac, so, yeah, you can give me some odds on that happening and we'll take bets.

(*My recommendation: reduce it to 30-50 fervor and increase the internal cooldown by at least 50%.)”

Having the ire dread proc given to every one from there new myth weapon would be cool every one would be happy and there would be no weapons better then other classes be best in slot for 2 years then.

11-01-2016, 10:05 PM

their primals and feral rending are really the only thing that does dps for them... other then dagger storm... their actual combat arts are trash

11-01-2016, 10:16 PM

Yeah, all the 150 mill dps say that.

11-01-2016, 10:28 PM

In recent times, before Ire-dread, beastlords were not great DPS. They were ok. Certainly not contenders for T1 status.

...and then we all got access to ethereal reset/fervor procs, and that helped beastlords a bit more than it helped other classes, and beastlord damage potential improved a bit, but they still weren't a "wow" class.

...and then we all got the chance to get Ire-dread, and for the few that were lucky enough to win it, combined with ethereal reset/fervor procs, put some beastlords over the top and made them hard to beat on a parse (assuming all other factors such as gear, infusing, and player skill are equal).

The vast majority of the beastlord parse is wrapped up in primals. If you directly nerf the damage of primals by 30%, you will immediately and absolutely destroy the class for everyone who doesn't have Ire-dread. When Epics replace Ire-dread, you'll destroy it for those few remaining BLs who were lucky enough to loot their way into an imbalanced situation and got to use it in early KA.

The solution in this case isn't to nerf the abilities; it's to (through various means) get rid of the offending items that are causing imbalance. Get rid of Ire-dread. Marginalize ethereal adorns if you need to. You should never, ever balance classes around the assumption that they have an incredibly rare raid-dropped item. That's amateurish game design, and I hope we never see that level of ridiculousness make its way to live... for any class.

11-01-2016, 11:24 PM

lol.....

11-01-2016, 11:27 PM

IF the supposed reason BL's do broken dps is soley due to the hammer proc and their primals....then perhaps the primals shouldnt be reset by the hammer allowing the primals to be fired off 100% of the time with 130+ fervor

11-01-2016, 11:59 PM

Any T-1 with a hammer and a little skill does insane dps, dumping this on only BL is beyond ********.

11-02-2016, 12:39 AM

Entropy said: ↑

“In recent times, before Ire-dread, beastlords were not great DPS. They were ok. Certainly not contenders for T1 status.

...and then we all got access to ethereal reset/fervor procs, and that helped beastlords a bit more than it helped other classes, and beastlord damage potential improved a bit, but they still weren't a "wow" class.

...and then we all got the chance to get Ire-dread, and for the few that were lucky enough to win it, combined with ethereal reset/fervor procs, put some beastlords over the top and made them hard to beat on a parse (assuming all other factors such as gear, infusing, and player skill are equal).

The vast majority of the beastlord parse is wrapped up in primals. If you directly nerf the damage of primals by 30%, you will immediately and absolutely destroy the class for everyone who doesn't have Ire-dread. When Epics replace Ire-dread, you'll destroy it for those few remaining BLs who were lucky enough to loot their way into an imbalanced situation and got to use it in early KA.

The solution in this case isn't to nerf the abilities; it's to (through various means) get rid of the offending items that are causing imbalance. Get rid of Ire-dread. Marginalize ethereal adorns if you need to. You should never, ever balance classes around the assumption that they have an incredibly rare raid-dropped item. That's amateurish game design, and I hope we never see that level of ridiculousness make its way to live... for any class.”

But the thing is, it's not just hammer beastlords that are on the top of the parse. In some cases, it's non-hammer beastlords as well. In KA beastlords will have a mage-like conversion, this conversion will put beastlords in the same place summoners were at a couple months ago, and nobody wants that. Toning down the primals will help keep beastlords balanced with the other T1's.

11-02-2016, 01:57 AM

What non-hammer beastlords are consistently topping your raid parse, and can you please link me the profiles of your other T1s so we can see why this might be happening?

11-02-2016, 01:59 AM

Yep, that's one solution. It'd make hammer nearly useless for BLs (I'd switch to a KA dmg proc weapon immediately if they did that), but it'd fix the problem.

The other solution is to just nerf the hammer into the dirt when KA releases, as I proposed earlier. We had our one xpac of ridiculousness; time to let that fade into memory. At that point, they could start to reasonably tweak class balance on a common playing field.

11-02-2016, 08:42 AM

Here's my suggestion on making beastlords on par with other classes: Scale primals down 20-30% in total damage. It's not too hard to do, and when they were bad, they were given a sheer 30% upgrade to total damage on all abilities along with the other scouts. Beastlords may seem op, but it's really just the hammer honestly. But that's probably not gonna stop them from getting hit with the nerf bat and I think 20-30% on JUST the primals would be fair to keep them at the t1 position.

Giving beastlords the conversions mages have is going to net them more than losing 30% damage on primals. Also, make fervor not apply to wards on the beastlord. Being able to hit 40 mil wards on a basically 2 second recast ward is pretty crazy.

11-02-2016, 10:04 AM

I consistently top our raid parse and do not have a hammer. But! I am the only t1 with Trak charms so I have 2k ish more pot than the majority of our raid. Without that id probably be right in line with the others.

11-02-2016, 01:18 PM

Yep. And this is why the devs stated that they do not use flawed circumstantial evidence (parses) to balance classes. Unless you can adjust everyone to the same stat and buff baseline, you can't even begin to do proper class balance.

Doesn't stop most people from enraging in ignorant forum whinefests though. Smile

11-02-2016, 02:01 PM

Id be interested in seeing what they use to determine when a class is op or not then, I can't help but disagree when you say devs dont use this type of data. Look a few months back at mimicry. One player brings up a concern for the spells stupid high damage hits and its lack of player skill needed and a few people link a parse and boom nerf bat. It seemed to completely bypass the whole point of the tread which was to bring up the fact that the majority of a chanters parse is solely based on someone else's ability to press buttons and the enchanters ability to press one button fast enough. If they dont look at circumstantial evidence mimicry would have a higher multiplier and be based on the enchanters abilities and gear. Also look at VC. I'm not trying to argue that those abilities were not op just that both had big hits after parses were posted showing a small handful of player with best in slot gear hitting mega numbers.

I agree with you Entropy, I think that stupid hammer that I want so bad is the biggest issue with unbalance but I'm really worried we are gonna go the way of the mimic/VC and end up as a quick "fix" nerf victim that is so so, unless we are so far past the competition in gear and stats we overpower by pure math.

11-02-2016, 02:46 PM

maybe everyone should just ask for a magic win button to push lol please people stop the whinning about nerfing classes

10-31-2016, 09:49 PM	#6
kluxor Active Member Posts: n/a	Entropy said: ↑ “Nerf #1: BL won't ever get Jcapped again. Nerf #2: ???” Jcap proc dps should be attributed to the troub just like prismatic chaos is attributed to the illy. That will end the cries of lost dps from everyone and make the troubs happy to cast jcap on the predators and sorcerers

11-01-2016, 01:34 AM	#8
Entropy Active Member Posts: n/a	Rageki said: ↑ “Why would they nerf BL's? Most ppl cant play them anyway.” Yep. It's one of the harder classes to play well and push to its DPS potential. However, due to their class mechanics (e.g. nearly all of their damage potential being wrapped up in the six primals, chain-castable within a few seconds), Beastlords got a relatively larger boost from Ire-dread's proc compared to other DPS classes. People got frustrated when they saw extremely well geared/infused Beastlord's solidly taking the #1 slot on the parse. Sad pandas abounded. An uninformed forum whine campaign ensued. So, what's probably going to happen is: 1) They're going to nerf the class by affecting the only thing that matters to its DPS potential: feral primals. 2) For the first few months of the xpac, while Ire-dread is still viable, Beastlord's will be back in line with other T1s on the parse. (Those without Ire-dread are going to be sad.) 3) The new Epic weapons will start entering the game. They will be Greater Relics. Ire-dread quietly goes into obsolescence. 4) All Beastlords will now be sad. 5) Beastlords will main switch to Predator or Sorcerer, and resent every day of the Ascension grind to get back to AL5 so they can get their Epic on their new main. 6) The cycle of MMO Life continues. Orrrr... DBG can just wait until the xpac's release day and nerf* the stupid overpowered hammer that caused so many class balance issues in the first place (far beyond just BLs), and be done with it in a straightforward manner, letting people naturally replace it in the near future. This would require a development team to have the courage to implicitly admit that they made a terrible itemization choice in the past and then let it slide for an entire xpac, so, yeah, you can give me some odds on that happening and we'll take bets. (*My recommendation: reduce it to 30-50 fervor and increase the internal cooldown by at least 50%.)

11-01-2016, 04:47 AM	#9
Brightlyz Active Member Posts: n/a	Errrorr said: ↑ “If its said in Discord, it must 100% be true.” Was said by kander, but please continue.

11-01-2016, 04:49 AM	#10
Brightlyz Active Member Posts: n/a	Rageki said: ↑ “Why would they nerf BL's? Most ppl cant play them anyway.” This is true, but that isnt what determines balance changes unfortunately.

11-01-2016, 04:56 AM	#11
Brightlyz Active Member Posts: n/a	Entropy said: ↑ “Yep. It's one of the harder classes to play well and push to its DPS potential. However, due to their class mechanics (e.g. nearly all of their damage potential being wrapped up in the six primals, chain-castable within a few seconds), Beastlords got a relatively larger boost from Ire-dread's proc compared to other DPS classes. People got frustrated when they saw extremely well geared/infused Beastlord's solidly taking the #1 slot on the parse. Sad pandas abounded. An uninformed forum whine campaign ensued. So, what's probably going to happen is: 1) They're going to nerf the class by affecting the only thing that matters to its DPS potential: feral primals. 2) For the first few months of the xpac, while Ire-dread is still viable, Beastlord's will be back in line with other T1s on the parse. (Those without Ire-dread are going to be sad.) 3) The new Epic weapons will start entering the game. They will be Greater Relics. Ire-dread quietly goes into obsolescence. 4) All Beastlords will now be sad. 5) Beastlords will main switch to Predator or Sorcerer, and resent every day of the Ascension grind to get back to AL5 so they can get their Epic on their new main. 6) The cycle of MMO Life continues. Orrrr... DBG can just wait until the xpac's release day and nerf* the stupid overpowered hammer that caused so many class balance issues in the first place (far beyond just BLs), and be done with it in a straightforward manner, letting people naturally replace it in the near future. This would require a development team to have the courage to implicitly admit that they made a terrible itemization choice in the past and then let it slide for an entire xpac, so, yeah, you can give me some odds on that happening and we'll take bets. (*My recommendation: reduce it to 30-50 fervor and increase the internal cooldown by at least 50%.)” Honestly i dont care what they do, i would just like to know before KA launches cause main changing is gonna be a terrible process at this point not even including ascension lvl. If i have to wait months till ascension lvl 5 only to find out my class sucks it might just be it for me.

10-31-2016, 07:58 AM	#1
Brightlyz Active Member Posts: n/a	Read on discord the other day that beastlord is getting nerfed in KA. Any chance we could get some details on this?

10-31-2016, 05:31 PM	#2
Tajar Active Member Posts: n/a	Really?

10-31-2016, 05:57 PM	#3
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	If its said in Discord, it must 100% be true.

10-31-2016, 06:38 PM	#4
Entropy Active Member Posts: n/a	Nerf #1: BL won't ever get Jcapped again. Nerf #2: ???

10-31-2016, 09:44 PM	#5
Stimps Member Posts: n/a	We feel you - Summoners

11-01-2016, 12:13 AM	#7
Rageki New Member Posts: n/a	Why would they nerf BL's? Most ppl cant play them anyway.

11-01-2016, 07:33 AM	#12
Zelox Member Posts: n/a	idk why anyone would say bl is hard to play... but anyway, the hammer was a mistake

11-01-2016, 10:46 AM	#13
Zelox Member Posts: n/a	the problem is that the proc in its nature affects certain classes more than others so its just no bueno

11-01-2016, 04:09 PM	#14
Eufelia New Member Posts: n/a	kluxor said: ↑ “Jcap proc dps should be attributed to the troub just like prismatic chaos is attributed to the illy. That will end the cries of lost dps from everyone and make the troubs happy to cast jcap on the predators and sorcerers” very good idea. would solve a lot of problems.

11-01-2016, 04:37 PM	#15
Alway New Member Posts: n/a	kluxor said: ↑ “Jcap proc dps should be attributed to the troub just like prismatic chaos is attributed to the illy. That will end the cries of lost dps from everyone and make the troubs happy to cast jcap on the predators and sorcerers” if dirges had something similar sure, the damage from their heal is **** compared to jcap

11-01-2016, 08:28 PM	#16
Ashandra Active Member Posts: n/a	Entropy said: ↑ “Yep. It's one of the harder classes to play well and push to its DPS potential. However, due to their class mechanics (e.g. nearly all of their damage potential being wrapped up in the six primals, chain-castable within a few seconds), Beastlords got a relatively larger boost from Ire-dread's proc compared to other DPS classes. People got frustrated when they saw extremely well geared/infused Beastlord's solidly taking the #1 slot on the parse. Sad pandas abounded. An uninformed forum whine campaign ensued. So, what's probably going to happen is: 1) They're going to nerf the class by affecting the only thing that matters to its DPS potential: feral primals. 2) For the first few months of the xpac, while Ire-dread is still viable, Beastlord's will be back in line with other T1s on the parse. (Those without Ire-dread are going to be sad.) 3) The new Epic weapons will start entering the game. They will be Greater Relics. Ire-dread quietly goes into obsolescence. 4) All Beastlords will now be sad. 5) Beastlords will main switch to Predator or Sorcerer, and resent every day of the Ascension grind to get back to AL5 so they can get their Epic on their new main. 6) The cycle of MMO Life continues. Orrrr... DBG can just wait until the xpac's release day and nerf* the stupid overpowered hammer that caused so many class balance issues in the first place (far beyond just BLs), and be done with it in a straightforward manner, letting people naturally replace it in the near future. This would require a development team to have the courage to implicitly admit that they made a terrible itemization choice in the past and then let it slide for an entire xpac, so, yeah, you can give me some odds on that happening and we'll take bets. (*My recommendation: reduce it to 30-50 fervor and increase the internal cooldown by at least 50%.)” Having the ire dread proc given to every one from there new myth weapon would be cool every one would be happy and there would be no weapons better then other classes be best in slot for 2 years then.

11-01-2016, 10:05 PM	#17
Alway New Member Posts: n/a	their primals and feral rending are really the only thing that does dps for them... other then dagger storm... their actual combat arts are trash

11-01-2016, 10:16 PM	#18
Brightlyz Active Member Posts: n/a	Zelox said: ↑ “idk why anyone would say bl is hard to play... but anyway, the hammer was a mistake” Yeah, all the 150 mill dps say that.

11-01-2016, 10:28 PM	#19
Entropy Active Member Posts: n/a	Safirah said: ↑ “Here's my suggestion on making beastlords on par with other classes: Scale primals down 20-30% in total damage. It's not too hard to do, and when they were bad, they were given a sheer 30% upgrade to total damage on all abilities along with the other scouts. Beastlords may seem op, but it's really just the hammer honestly. But that's probably not gonna stop them from getting hit with the nerf bat and I think 20-30% on JUST the primals would be fair to keep them at the t1 position. Giving beastlords the conversions mages have is going to net them more than losing 30% damage on primals. Also, make fervor not apply to wards on the beastlord. Being able to hit 40 mil wards on a basically 2 second recast ward is pretty crazy.” In recent times, before Ire-dread, beastlords were not great DPS. They were ok. Certainly not contenders for T1 status. ...and then we all got access to ethereal reset/fervor procs, and that helped beastlords a bit more than it helped other classes, and beastlord damage potential improved a bit, but they still weren't a "wow" class. ...and then we all got the chance to get Ire-dread, and for the few that were lucky enough to win it, combined with ethereal reset/fervor procs, put some beastlords over the top and made them hard to beat on a parse (assuming all other factors such as gear, infusing, and player skill are equal). The vast majority of the beastlord parse is wrapped up in primals. If you directly nerf the damage of primals by 30%, you will immediately and absolutely destroy the class for everyone who doesn't have Ire-dread. When Epics replace Ire-dread, you'll destroy it for those few remaining BLs who were lucky enough to loot their way into an imbalanced situation and got to use it in early KA. The solution in this case isn't to nerf the abilities; it's to (through various means) get rid of the offending items that are causing imbalance. Get rid of Ire-dread. Marginalize ethereal adorns if you need to. You should never, ever balance classes around the assumption that they have an incredibly rare raid-dropped item. That's amateurish game design, and I hope we never see that level of ridiculousness make its way to live... for any class.

11-01-2016, 11:24 PM	#20
Zelox Member Posts: n/a	Brightlyz said: ↑ “Yeah, all the 150 mill dps say that.” lol.....

11-01-2016, 11:27 PM	#21
kluxor Active Member Posts: n/a	IF the supposed reason BL's do broken dps is soley due to the hammer proc and their primals....then perhaps the primals shouldnt be reset by the hammer allowing the primals to be fired off 100% of the time with 130+ fervor

11-01-2016, 11:59 PM	#22
Brightlyz Active Member Posts: n/a	Any T-1 with a hammer and a little skill does insane dps, dumping this on only BL is beyond ********.

11-02-2016, 12:39 AM	#23
Safirah New Member Posts: n/a	Entropy said: ↑ “In recent times, before Ire-dread, beastlords were not great DPS. They were ok. Certainly not contenders for T1 status. ...and then we all got access to ethereal reset/fervor procs, and that helped beastlords a bit more than it helped other classes, and beastlord damage potential improved a bit, but they still weren't a "wow" class. ...and then we all got the chance to get Ire-dread, and for the few that were lucky enough to win it, combined with ethereal reset/fervor procs, put some beastlords over the top and made them hard to beat on a parse (assuming all other factors such as gear, infusing, and player skill are equal). The vast majority of the beastlord parse is wrapped up in primals. If you directly nerf the damage of primals by 30%, you will immediately and absolutely destroy the class for everyone who doesn't have Ire-dread. When Epics replace Ire-dread, you'll destroy it for those few remaining BLs who were lucky enough to loot their way into an imbalanced situation and got to use it in early KA. The solution in this case isn't to nerf the abilities; it's to (through various means) get rid of the offending items that are causing imbalance. Get rid of Ire-dread. Marginalize ethereal adorns if you need to. You should never, ever balance classes around the assumption that they have an incredibly rare raid-dropped item. That's amateurish game design, and I hope we never see that level of ridiculousness make its way to live... for any class.” But the thing is, it's not just hammer beastlords that are on the top of the parse. In some cases, it's non-hammer beastlords as well. In KA beastlords will have a mage-like conversion, this conversion will put beastlords in the same place summoners were at a couple months ago, and nobody wants that. Toning down the primals will help keep beastlords balanced with the other T1's.

11-02-2016, 01:57 AM	#24
Entropy Active Member Posts: n/a	Safirah said: ↑ “But the thing is, it's not just hammer beastlords that are on the top of the parse. In some cases, it's non-hammer beastlords as well. In KA beastlords will have a mage-like conversion, this conversion will put beastlords in the same place summoners were at a couple months ago, and nobody wants that. Toning down the primals will help keep beastlords balanced with the other T1's.” What non-hammer beastlords are consistently topping your raid parse, and can you please link me the profiles of your other T1s so we can see why this might be happening?

11-02-2016, 01:59 AM	#25
Entropy Active Member Posts: n/a	kluxor said: ↑ “IF the supposed reason BL's do broken dps is soley due to the hammer proc and their primals....then perhaps the primals shouldnt be reset by the hammer allowing the primals to be fired off 100% of the time with 130+ fervor” Yep, that's one solution. It'd make hammer nearly useless for BLs (I'd switch to a KA dmg proc weapon immediately if they did that), but it'd fix the problem. The other solution is to just nerf the hammer into the dirt when KA releases, as I proposed earlier. We had our one xpac of ridiculousness; time to let that fade into memory. At that point, they could start to reasonably tweak class balance on a common playing field.

11-02-2016, 08:42 AM	#26
Safirah New Member Posts: n/a	Here's my suggestion on making beastlords on par with other classes: Scale primals down 20-30% in total damage. It's not too hard to do, and when they were bad, they were given a sheer 30% upgrade to total damage on all abilities along with the other scouts. Beastlords may seem op, but it's really just the hammer honestly. But that's probably not gonna stop them from getting hit with the nerf bat and I think 20-30% on JUST the primals would be fair to keep them at the t1 position. Giving beastlords the conversions mages have is going to net them more than losing 30% damage on primals. Also, make fervor not apply to wards on the beastlord. Being able to hit 40 mil wards on a basically 2 second recast ward is pretty crazy.

11-02-2016, 10:04 AM	#27
Talduke Member Posts: n/a	I consistently top our raid parse and do not have a hammer. But! I am the only t1 with Trak charms so I have 2k ish more pot than the majority of our raid. Without that id probably be right in line with the others.

11-02-2016, 01:18 PM	#28
Entropy Active Member Posts: n/a	Talduke said: ↑ “I consistently top our raid parse and do not have a hammer. But! I am the only t1 with Trak charms so I have 2k ish more pot than the majority of our raid. Without that id probably be right in line with the others.” Yep. And this is why the devs stated that they do not use flawed circumstantial evidence (parses) to balance classes. Unless you can adjust everyone to the same stat and buff baseline, you can't even begin to do proper class balance. Doesn't stop most people from enraging in ignorant forum whinefests though.

11-02-2016, 02:01 PM	#29
Talduke Member Posts: n/a	Id be interested in seeing what they use to determine when a class is op or not then, I can't help but disagree when you say devs dont use this type of data. Look a few months back at mimicry. One player brings up a concern for the spells stupid high damage hits and its lack of player skill needed and a few people link a parse and boom nerf bat. It seemed to completely bypass the whole point of the tread which was to bring up the fact that the majority of a chanters parse is solely based on someone else's ability to press buttons and the enchanters ability to press one button fast enough. If they dont look at circumstantial evidence mimicry would have a higher multiplier and be based on the enchanters abilities and gear. Also look at VC. I'm not trying to argue that those abilities were not op just that both had big hits after parses were posted showing a small handful of player with best in slot gear hitting mega numbers. I agree with you Entropy, I think that stupid hammer that I want so bad is the biggest issue with unbalance but I'm really worried we are gonna go the way of the mimic/VC and end up as a quick "fix" nerf victim that is so so, unless we are so far past the competition in gear and stats we overpower by pure math.

11-02-2016, 02:46 PM	#30
Healsu New Member Posts: n/a	maybe everyone should just ask for a magic win button to push lol please people stop the whinning about nerfing classes