Class Balance

I though I had read in one of the Beta forums that they where going to be testing the new class balances? can we get a Dev to confirm that and when it might be implemented please

^ also interested

Caith said: ↑

“None of the class balance changes will be going in until later next week.”

...and next week is almost over

[Diveris]

More interested in this than most of the other stuff tbh. Testing quests is cool. But they are usually the shortest part of the expansion for me. Class balance effects play long after quests are finished.

Check you AA tree and you will see some changes that are not announced yet, or the Deity points bonus in sta/pot/cb.

[duckster]

Moss said: ↑

“Check you AA tree and you will see some changes that are not announced yet, or the Deity points bonus in sta/pot/cb.”

Not on beta at the moment but can you expand on this?

It's on beta, check the third line of your Prestige tree on all classes, some AA bonus have nice (but strange) bonus in other trees

[duckster]

Ok so ranger prestige seems to be :

12 CB > 1POT on left side
24 pot > 1 CB on right side

Not consistent with other scouts - brig has

24 CB > 1 POT - left side
12 POT > 1 CB - right side

Any chance you could perhaps relook what you are giving scouts since for ranger left is preferable in most scenerios?

Better still give the 12 POT > 1CB to either side so depending on setup, the conversion is the same. Since the crit bonus cap is 3000 and you would around 250pot which in terms of potency ingame now isnt that special.

Kudos for the attempts to start class balance however!

[duckster]

The monk one seems interesting with 30% max HP @3k CB. Once again the actual prestige is abit backwards with CB > POT conversion however.

Glancing at my inq. Id like their conversion !

10 POT > 1 CB(right side). Yes please

Seems mages got their prestige adjusted too. 24 POT > 1 CB on both sides. Disappointing

First off thanks Devs for changing the scout prestige trees and kudos on being sneaky sneaky on it Second lets not look a gift hoarse in the mouth here guys scouts finally got some changes for the better here so dont F it up by ********!

[Malleria]

Not nice for everyone

I'm interested to see what Daybreak plans to do to make mages viable in the next expac. Predators and Beastlords are absolutely going to dominate with this conversion change (for the people who refused to spend plat and max out infusions. In situations where Preds maxed out CB in ToT they were already dominating).

Also, any plans to fix Focused Casting? It's been broken for an entire expac and it would be nice to actually have a "damage" chain again as a warlock.

[Silzin]

One Stealth change i found was the Heroic Tree Max HP 1st line 3rd ability... changed from 10% Max Health to 5% Health and 5% Power....
Other then that i like the very few changes i see. there are other changes and useless ability's that would be nice.... but i am not pressing it.

[quisling]

Outstanding. My heals, that are fairly often useless can now be bigger...and not needed. /shrug. I hope they have a better plan than that and using bleed through so that the rest of us non-shaman can be janitors for left-overs, for balancing healing...

Why not the Troub's Jester's Cap give fervor to all classes why only those? Fervor helps everyone not just big hitting dps

Proen said: ↑

“Why not the Troub's Jester's Cap give fervor to all classes why only those? Fervor helps everyone not just big hitting dps”

support the big hitters, its what you should be doing anyways

[Mermut]

kluxor said: ↑

“support the big hitters, its what you should be doing anyways”

Dps should be getting the big buffs... but that is often based as much (or more) on the player then the class. Expliciting give extra buffs to not just dps classes but only SOME dps classes is an... odd... decision. ESPECIALLY since which classes are strong/weak changes so often.

As a dirge I am obviously invested in seeing my class shine.. but what exactly is my class? We are a scout, or so they say. We are a rezzer, a buffer.. and yes we can do dps. However what I THINK my class should be and what it is can be debated. At the very least though, I am a "jack of all trades master of none". With that in mind I am resigned to my one class adjustment being something that is group and raid friendly, rather than a personal boost.

Dirge

• Eulogy of the Fallen now triggers a short duration resolve buff when a raid member dies. This buff does not stack

Is it super awesome? Heck no. Will I personally ever really use it? As a casual player.. not likely. However I do see it being a boon to a raid. That resolve buff could help prevent a wipe. I know we all have been looking forward to class balancing. However, we have to just step back a bit and realize that OUR interpretation of what our class should do could be very different than DBG's interpretation of what they want us to be capable of. We need to trust that the people who designed our class, who know the mechanics of our classes, and who deal with our upgrades know what they are doing EVEN WHEN WE DO NOT AGREE.

So, while I wish I could have more personal benefits from the class balance, I will accept what is given. I know these changes to our classes are the result of alot of thought, a lot of knowledge of how they want classes to work and also from a POV of the way the ascension class will work with our abilities. So, I think we need to mellow out a bit and test our new abilities and see how they play out before we can truly offer thoughtful, productive and insightful feedback that will be taken seriously.

Swashbuckler

• Added an effect to Hangman's Noose that reduces the targets combat mitigation.
• Precision Striking now affects all abilities and has had the critical damage component increased.
  
  The problem is that swashies have almost no abilities that qualify for this change. Assuming they are at 100% reuse speed, almost everything is 20 seconds or less. To make this even remotely viable you would have to completely remove the timer so it effects every swashy attack.
  
  
  
  Personally I like any change to the swashy, it's very much needed. The problem is these 2 changes wont get them invited to raids. Swashies need something major in order for raid leaders to take notice and start recruiting swashies. 50 raidwide fervor for example. It has to be that kind of amazing or else they'll be parked for yet another expansion.
  
  The other thing I was surprised not to see was that you didn't address the 100% bleedthrough on Defilers that we're seeing right now in beta.

[Caith]

ZUES said: ↑

“Swashbuckler

• Added an effect to Hangman's Noose that reduces the targets combat mitigation.
• Precision Striking now affects all abilities and has had the critical damage component increased.
  
  The problem is that swashies have almost no abilities that qualify for this change. Assuming they are at 100% reuse speed, almost everything is 20 seconds or less. To make this even remotely viable you would have to completely remove the timer so it effects every swashy attack.

”

So you are saying it should affect all abilities? Next you will tell me it should have the critical damage component increased.

Caith said: ↑

“So you are saying it should affect all abilities? Next you will tell me it should have the critical damage component increased.”

Haha. And Gninja said you weren't funny (kidding). We appreciate anything you do for swahies. But the timers are still visible even after the changes went live. So I think it effects 3 abilities? The biggest thing is we have to make raid leaders look at these changes and say "WOW we need a swashy"! Any change that doesn't do that will make me very sad.

Please, please, please.

[Malleria]

Inquisitor

• Deny now reduces the target's ability to bleed through wards.
• Fanatic's Faith VIII will now grant more Stamina and Max Health to group members.

I'm struggling to see the logic here. You introduce bleedthrough to give non-shaman healers something to heal, then give non-shaman a debuff that reduces bleedthrough thus reducing what non-shamans have to heal?

Malleria said: ↑

“Inquisitor

• Deny now reduces the target's ability to bleed through wards.
• Fanatic's Faith VIII will now grant more Stamina and Max Health to group members.

I'm struggling to see the logic here. You introduce bleedthrough to give non-shaman healers something to heal, then give non-shaman a debuff that reduces bleedthrough thus reducing what non-shamans have to heal?”

It makes perfect sense to me. You have shaman that are more than capable of solo healing heroics and even some raid fights. At least until the extreme bleedthrough made shaman nearly useless here in beta. Other healers cannot heal fast enough to overcome the incoming damage; and they lack wards. Now shamans can't ward fast enough and lack heals. This is a good way to even out the playing field and give more viability to plate and leather healers.

Expect to start grouping with another healer if you want to be successful in heroic and raid encounters. We need to work together now.

[Malleria]

ZUES said: ↑

“It makes perfect sense to me. You have shaman that are more than capable of solo healing heroics and even some raid fights. At least until the extreme bleedthrough made shaman nearly useless here in beta. Other healers cannot heal fast enough to overcome the incoming damage; and they lack wards. Now shamans can't ward fast enough and lack heals. This is a good way to even out the playing field and give more viability to plate and leather healers.

Expect to start grouping with another healer if you want to be successful in heroic and raid encounters. We need to work together now.”

You explained why they added bleedthrough yes. But why then add an ability that reduces it as a form of class balance? Bleedthrough itself is supposed to be class balance. They're balancing the balancer. It's overly complicated and not what non-shaman healers need to be made viable again.

[quisling]

Woot!! I can now help make my heal be unnecessary!! Teamwork!! Is this where you make the statement: you cure, I'll handle all the healing!!

[Mermut]

ZUES said: ↑

“It makes perfect sense to me. You have shaman that are more than capable of solo healing heroics and even some raid fights. At least until the extreme bleedthrough made shaman nearly useless here in beta. Other healers cannot heal fast enough to overcome the incoming damage; and they lack wards. Now shamans can't ward fast enough and lack heals. This is a good way to even out the playing field and give more viability to plate and leather healers.

Expect to start grouping with another healer if you want to be successful in heroic and raid encounters. We need to work together now.”

Actually, it's not a case of non-shaman not being able to heal 'fast enough'..it's a case of incoming damage being greater then hitpoint pools. Non-shaman heals are plenty big.. but non-wards that are bigger then hitpoint pools are useless... that's the issue.

I do think giving a class an ability that makes them less needed in their primary role is utterly bizaare. Imagine how dps class A would react if the way to balance them with stronger dps B class was to give them something that made dps B class do even mor damage... that is essentially what this buff does for clerics vs shaman.

[Uncle]

Malleria said: ↑

“Inquisitor

• Deny now reduces the target's ability to bleed through wards?

”

i was just about to post about this abiltity . There is a lil bit of an imbalance looking at the templar and IONQ versions of this.

deny (castable debuff that last 36 seconds adept level on beta buffed toon) covers 1.8 percent of teh bleed through as long as an inq maintains it.

where in contrast.

The temnplar's Reverence( is a maintained buff on a group/raid freind and covers 3 % adept) which mean it is a cast and forget in its current form.

the change i recommend is this change teh inq buff for bnleed though to b3 on par with teh templars and change teh abiulity from deny to Dogma. You can alos move both of these to a maintained group buff as well

uncle

[quisling]

Uncle said: ↑

“

i was just about to post about this abiltity . There is a lil bit of an imbalance looking at the templar and IONQ versions of this.

deny (castable debuff that last 36 seconds adept level on beta buffed toon) covers 1.8 percent of teh bleed through as long as an inq maintains it.

where in contrast.

The temnplar's Reverence( is a maintained buff on a group/raid freind and covers 3 % adept) which mean it is a cast and forget in its current form.

the change i recommend is this change teh inq buff for bnleed though to b3 on par with teh templars and change teh abiulity from deny to Dogma. You can alos move both of these to a maintained group buff as well

uncle”

Not sure why you would care. Both basically make templars or inquisitors the caddy carrying the clubs for the "real" healers

This is getting ridiculous.

[Uncle]

quisling said: ↑

“Not sure why you would care. Both basically make templars or inquisitors the caddy carrying the clubs for the "real" healers



This is getting ridiculous.”

i know your salty so i wont post some thing sly like i want to make sure inq and templar are equal when cadding the clubs

but this is beta and i am testing stuff besides maybe some day you might want to betray to a inq

uncle

what about chanters?