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Old 11-07-2015, 09:53 PM   #1
Mogrim

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I wanted to take time to devote an entire thread to discussing what I feel is an important issue going forward into the xpac.

This feedback is intended to be helpful because I feel that a primary goal of the dev team will not be accomplished due to some minor but crucial oversights.

During multiple livestreams, there have been a //lot// of conversations regarding how if players wanted to have the fully best in slot character, they would need to complete multiple different playstyle endlines. A novel idea, I somewhat like it. While a player wouldn't be forced into certain playstyles, they //could// get a //little better// if they completed them all.

However, I have discovered that this really isn't even remotely true, at all. Here are a few reasons why.

1) The tradeskill reward item isn't best in slot, even if it didn't have a relic tag to it. It isn't close to best in slot. It is inferior to the current ethereals, and non 2-hand weapon user would switch playstyles in order to use it as well. It lacks the stats and effects to make it worthy of consideration for "best in slot". So first of all, the item intended to be the "best in slot" reward for completing the crafting playstyle is not even better than the current xpac's best in slot items, let along next expac's. That is problematic.

2) The relic tag effectively breaks/invalidates many items //practically immediately//. Obtained the reward for the sig-questline? Cool. But it is "Relic", so if you ever loot another item that is "Relic" that is //better// than this ring, this ring ceases to be best in slot, because wearing it would be a net loss to your character/raid/etc. And really, THIS is the crucial point. For an item to be best in slot, you need to be able to wear it. Otherwise, it is simply a "good item to use for a few days until you loot a better item with the Relic tag". As stands, for some people, the Relic Cloak will be best in slot. As a result, questing won't give them a best in slot item. Tradeskilling won't give them a best in slot item. Only grinding for the cloak will.

Conclusion/ TLDR: The initial premise of "if you want to be the best, you need to participate in all aspects of the game" is patently false, because the "Relic" tag corners the player into only using **one** of the "best in slot" items from all different playstyles. As a result, the player will use the "best of the best in slot", making that item the only REAL "best in slot" item.
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Old 11-07-2015, 09:59 PM   #2
Enigma

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This is why the ToT weapons need to have the ethereal proc effects on them rather then they be put on war runes and tagged "relic".

At the moment ethereal weapons will be best in slot for maybe all of ToT lol.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:00 PM   #3
Mogrim

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So here comes the proposed "fix" to this issue.

If you want many styles of play to award one "best in slot" item, that item has to be usable. These specific items cannot be pigeonholed into being "relic-restricted" otherwise they're not really best in slot, they're simply "a really cool item I'd use if I didn't already have a better item from raiding".
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:00 PM   #4
Enigma

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ToT weapons need better damage ratings as well.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:01 PM   #5
Mogrim

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Wearing old-tier items will come at what appears to be a large stat penalty due to inability to infuse. So this statement isn't true. Some ethereals will remain best in slot for a //significant portion// of ToT, but doubtfully all of it.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:05 PM   #6
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It really depends on how great of a stat gain infusion will give but i highly doubt it would overshadow having three ethereal effects plus three regular war runes. What makes no sense here is that you will be able to use just one ethereal relic war rune lol and then b/c it is "relic" that means you can't use the class cloak either...
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:16 PM   #7
ZUES

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1. I understand that they wanted to introduce players to Relics by giving a Relic as the sig reward. It's appropriate. Personally I think it should be the class cloak. The trade skill sig line should be the finger or neck. I say that because damage procs and 2 handers were not considered in what some classes will consider "best in slot". The TS sig line Relic will be obsolete in 5 minutes in ToT. Procs win every time.

2. Every slot from one expansion should be easily upgraded in the next expansion. No exceptions. Weapon damage ratings and low armor mitigation are stealing the glory from ToT. Nobody wants to sit in front of a training dum dum parsing their current weapon damage versus a couple blue stats on ToT weapons. We shouldn't have to.

Out of all the Relics I've seen so far, I would only consider 3 "best in slot". The CA war rune, the ranged weapon on merchant and the class cloaks.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:25 PM   #8
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I wholeheartedly disagree that every slot should be easily upgraded. If there was a lvl increase sure, but that's not the case. An expansion an expansion, not a sequel that automatically makes everything obsolete.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:47 PM   #9
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We may frequently disagree, but you nailed it here. +1

If playstyle rewards are meant to be "BIS", the limitation to equip only one of them invalidates that claim unless all playstyles reward the same item.

@ZEUS I wrote a few calculators for that.
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:55 PM   #10
Amaitae

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an expansion can be anything including making old items obsolete, there are no rules to that.
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Old 11-08-2015, 12:59 AM   #11
Alphonsus

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They never said that at all, they said there were multiple relics available for all play styles. This isn't Pokémon, you don't have to "catch them all".
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Old 11-08-2015, 01:12 AM   #12
Monstuhr

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I think they are just simply over-using the "relic" tag. When every cool item is relic, then you simply are limited in what you can use. That simply is not fun. It creates the situation where you are excited you get a cool item, but then can't use it b/c you are using your class cloak or what not.

Also, they should leave the old ethereal weapons from AoM alone. Like Mogrim said, the stats/infusion will replace most of the ethereal items. The ethereal war runes shot not be "relic" tagged.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:27 AM   #13
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The "best in slot" is a item with the better benefits for the player, grp or raid, not the item with +2 stamina and +0.2cb/pot. The adv solo and prob the heroic cloak with the pot/cc proc can have better stats from the old one, but... the old cloak have flurry AND double cast... I will prob find the tank version, but i will use only in hard condition (if i will still need mit of course), and continue to use old cloak / belt, because is "best in slot" for me, even with lower stats. From the relic cloak i have see, for most, the old fabled cloak is better...

The "Relic" tag in theory is a good idea, but atm is badly applied.

For example, the ring from the timeline, is "decent" only in raid. Is meh in grp (if most of the grp use this item), is crap in solo. Other item from the timeline are better for a solo playstyle. But is relic.. Pretty much ok only for salvage, atm.

The ethereal effect on specific war rune.. is very very discriminatory. Some class NEED some rune for work properly and other class have more "maneuvering space". Will be better move this effect, from the purple slot to the cyan slot.

Will be better to use several relic in the same time, like... Armor relic, weapon relic, rune relic, jewelry relic... ATM we have to many relic, we have relic everywhere, they coming out from the ***************************************** wall! Tongue
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:33 AM   #14
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No class 'needs' the etheral effect to 'work properly'. The bigger issue with then that I see is that some of the ethereal effects are totally useless for some classes and amazingly powerful for others.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:45 AM   #15
Ansom

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no no, not the ethereal proc, the classic aom war rune.

Some class can move, or work fine with few or none warrune. other class need some war rune (like tank and healer).
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:07 AM   #16
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As a healer, there is no war runes that I 'require' to function properly. There are many that are nice, but none that cripple me if I lack them.
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