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Old 10-27-2005, 10:11 PM   #1
Prismata

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I played around with the new models today. Could only do the males, but there wasn't much customization available. I would like to change the frowning expression and maybe make the mouth/lips smaller on some of them. Overall I do like them. I have heard complaints that the elf males look too feminine. The hair texture, imo, is more realistic than on the old models. The males seem to be wearing eyeliner which is possibly the reason some guys feel they are too feminine. Of course it is a matter of personal taste, but I really didn't feel the models were too anime. They seem at home in the world of Norrath.

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Old 10-27-2005, 10:37 PM   #2
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Prismata wrote:

I played around with the new models today. Could only do the males, but there wasn't much customization available.



This is part of the design of the models. I stated way back when we first mentioned them that SOGA models wouldn't offer as many customization options.

 

This is as good a place as any to explain again where these models come from. SOGA is a company that is a joint venture between SOE and Gamania. It was a partnership formed to bring EverQuest II and other projects to the Asian Pacific market.

 

As part of the culturalization to make our game more appealing to players in those regions, SOGA wanted to change some of the player models. The emphasis for them was to have a certain look, not to offer a wide range of customizations.

 

We are offering the EQ2 East models to our US and European customers as an option. We're putting them in as SOGA designed them; we aren't planning to add more customizations at this time.

 

I just want to make the distinction clear that these weren't designed as a new set of replacement models for the US/European game. Think of them more as an optional add-on designed by our partners that we're offering to our players as well.

 

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Old 10-27-2005, 10:52 PM   #3
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I would much rather see some of the elements of the SOGA models added to the US/Euro EQ2 model customisations: more hair styles, extended elven ears down to the size/shape now, different eye shapes, different body shapes (upper torso with muscle definition or [Removed for Content], and lower torso with the waist and such), or just customisations (other than hair style and a limited number of colours) that really show up in game. I played SWG for a year and one of the 3 things I miss most is the character customisation that you could actually see when you would look at a character in-game.  In EQ2, you can barely see eye colour let alone cheek shape, nose length, hair colour nuances, etc even with the graphics setting on maximum and practically nose to nose with another character (on the minimum setting it's worse, I think, than the character graphics of EQ1 before Luclin). The main reason anyone wants the Soga models is that they want to have characters that look different from every other character (or at least somewhat varied) rather than a cookie cutter clone, wood_elf_7847 (copied from wood_elf_0007).

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Old 10-27-2005, 11:43 PM   #4
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I don't think the original models had much customization either, to be honest. These look 500% better than the current models, so I have no problem sacrificing 5% less difference on sliders.

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Old 10-27-2005, 11:58 PM   #5
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Looks like the SOGA models have smaller [Removed for Content] for females.... this is NOT a good thing... as alot of sexually frustrated young men are gonna be very upset.... =(   he he he

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Old 10-28-2005, 01:07 AM   #6
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Quicksilver74 wrote:

Looks like the SOGA models have smaller [Removed for Content] for females.... this is NOT a good thing... as alot of sexually frustrated young men are gonna be very upset.... =(   he he he




At a loss of words for that comment.

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Old 10-28-2005, 01:28 AM   #7
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They are smaller? hehe. Don't look it from where I'm standing. My char looks like she got some implants.

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Old 10-28-2005, 01:43 AM   #8
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Calendri wrote:They are smaller? hehe. Don't look it from where I'm standing. My char looks like she got some implants.


the illussion of extra bust lines on the characters comes from the fact that the armor/clothes doesn't fit.  My barb lookslike she's wearing a plastic bust since the tunic size didnt' change but the model got a lot smaller.  When I strip her downt o peasent gear I can actually look down her blouse it is soo big on her.

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Old 10-28-2005, 02:28 AM   #9
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Moorgard wrote:



Prismata wrote:

I played around with the new models today. Could only do the males, but there wasn't much customization available.



This is part of the design of the models. I stated way back when we first mentioned them that SOGA models wouldn't offer as many customization options.

 

This is as good a place as any to explain again where these models come from. SOGA is a company that is a joint venture between SOE and Gamania. It was a partnership formed to bring EverQuest II and other projects to the Asian Pacific market.

 

As part of the culturalization to make our game more appealing to players in those regions, SOGA wanted to change some of the player models. The emphasis for them was to have a certain look, not to offer a wide range of customizations.

 

We are offering the EQ2 East models to our US and European customers as an option. We're putting them in as SOGA designed them; we aren't planning to add more customizations at this time.

 

I just want to make the distinction clear that these weren't designed as a new set of replacement models for the US/European game. Think of them more as an optional add-on designed by our partners that we're offering to our players as well.

 




Well, currently those models are VERY buggy on the test server.... Who is going to fix all of their flaws? The SOGA people who created them, or the actual EQ2 art team?

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Old 10-28-2005, 04:31 AM   #10
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The SOGA team character data is provided as an option to US players.  They are monitoring any bugs reported from the SOGA release of EQ2 as well as bugs reported from US users.  As fixes are completed they will be propigated to the US at the same time.
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Old 10-28-2005, 07:26 AM   #11
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Moorgard wrote:


As part of the culturalization to make our game more appealing to players in those regions, SOGA wanted to change some of the player models. The emphasis for them was to have a certain look, not to offer a wide range of customizations.




Hmm, "a certain look" huh? In an effort to help Moorgard make his point clear, I took the following screenshot. The Asian audiance require "a certain look" in their characters.....

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/image_view.vm?imageId=466037

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Old 10-28-2005, 07:42 AM   #12
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Vobe wrote:


Moorgard wrote:

As part of the culturalization to make our game more appealing to players in those regions, SOGA wanted to change some of the player models. The emphasis for them was to have a certain look, not to offer a wide range of customizations.


Hmm, "a certain look" huh? In an effort to help Moorgard make his point clear, I took the following screenshot. The Asian audiance require "a certain look" in their characters.....

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/image_view.vm?imageId=466037


Hey, at least those are keeping the fellah's eyes off your titanic melonhead!

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Old 10-28-2005, 08:41 AM   #13
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Asian gamers in general do not prefer a plethora of customization options - as we do in the West.  Eastern socialization is different.  They feel it is too ... what would be the word ... pretentious? egotistical?  Those both have negative connotations however Eastern culture does not see this as negative per se ... its just that their worldview prevents them from feeling unique in as much as it spares them humiliation that there are better avatars out there.  Mind you I'm not talking about Asians who have grown up in America - I'm tlaking about people who live and work and were born in and socialized in Eastern countries.  You shouldn't expect that a company who is going to do localizations for Eastern markets is going to give the variety of options we have in Western markets because the culture there does not prefer that - they find it to be troublesome.  I've lived in Japan and Seoul and - although to our Western eyes we are presented with this vivid culture - and parts of it are vivid indeed - there is also a strict set of underlying social norms that are followed - so subtle most Westerners would not be able to identify them unless you spend a good deal of time immersed in the culture.  There is the unerlying principle that no one person should be so individual as to stand out to the point of "ridiculousness" or "embarrassment" -- not of the individual but of OTHERS.  Thus - by limiting in-game creations, no single person can create an avatar look that is significantly better than any other, thus - no one *else* can be ashamed of *their* [seen as subpar] creation.  So, no one would have inadvertently created a shameful situation for another player.  It's a very foreign concept for us but it exists in Eastern socialization.

Message Edited by Vicontessa on 10-27-2005 09:43 PM

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Old 10-28-2005, 09:47 AM   #14
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I sort of disagree with this. The fact of the matter is, in most east asian MMOs the soul purpose of the game is to be BETTER than everyone else. Ignore content, ignore useful in game lore, grind levels, be the best, show that you're the best with your equipment, armor and character. MMOS like MuOnline, TantraOnline, Ragnarok and even Lineage II have this underlying theme running with them.

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Old 10-28-2005, 03:08 PM   #15
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ask some asian (chinese) kids what's they want to do when they're grown up. the most popular answer will be "becoming a millionaire". and this answer is ment dead serious.being rich and showing others how rich you are is desired by the majority of asian people.the equivalent for this in games is having uber items and such.
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Old 10-28-2005, 08:52 PM   #16
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Vicontessa wrote:

Asian gamers in general do not prefer a plethora of customization options - as we do in the West.  Eastern socialization is different.  They feel it is too ... what would be the word ... pretentious? egotistical?  Those both have negative connotations however Eastern culture does not see this as negative per se ... its just that their worldview prevents them from feeling unique in as much as it spares them humiliation that there are better avatars out there.  Mind you I'm not talking about Asians who have grown up in America - I'm tlaking about people who live and work and were born in and socialized in Eastern countries.  You shouldn't expect that a company who is going to do localizations for Eastern markets is going to give the variety of options we have in Western markets because the culture there does not prefer that - they find it to be troublesome.  I've lived in Japan and Seoul and - although to our Western eyes we are presented with this vivid culture - and parts of it are vivid indeed - there is also a strict set of underlying social norms that are followed - so subtle most Westerners would not be able to identify them unless you spend a good deal of time immersed in the culture.  There is the unerlying principle that no one person should be so individual as to stand out to the point of "ridiculousness" or "embarrassment" -- not of the individual but of OTHERS.  Thus - by limiting in-game creations, no single person can create an avatar look that is significantly better than any other, thus - no one *else* can be ashamed of *their* [seen as subpar] creation.  So, no one would have inadvertently created a shameful situation for another player.  It's a very foreign concept for us but it exists in Eastern socialization.

Message Edited by Vicontessa on 10-27-2005 09:43 PM


That was a very interesting an informative read.
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:12 PM   #17
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I'de be happy if i could get a decent long hairsyle on my wood elf without flowers and bugs and other crap in it.

In EQ1 my Wood Elf had a ponytail and the closest thing i could find was the scout hairstyle since it didn't look like i was rolling on the forest ground.

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Old 10-29-2005, 08:00 AM   #18
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Great summary of the norms of Asian cultures, Vicontessa.  I too have lived in Japan for a time and observed the same things.  Great post.
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Old 10-29-2005, 08:52 AM   #19
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alliam wrote:Great summary of the norms of Asian cultures, Vicontessa.  I too have lived in Japan for a time and observed the same things.  Great post.

It was a very opinionated post.  Grouping billions of people across different cultures into single mindset is rather racist.  It should be pointed out that the soga models were NOT being used in the Japanese market.  The Japanese servers were using the same US models as we were.  The soga models were designed and being used in the China, Korean, and Taiwain market.
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Old 10-29-2005, 09:14 AM   #20
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Rijacki wrote:
I would much rather see some of the elements of the SOGA models added to the US/Euro EQ2 model customisations: more hair styles, extended elven ears down to the size/shape now, different eye shapes, different body shapes (upper torso with muscle definition or [Removed for Content], and lower torso with the waist and such), or just customisations (other than hair style and a limited number of colours) that really show up in game.

I played SWG for a year and one of the 3 things I miss most is the character customisation that you could actually see when you would look at a character in-game.  In EQ2, you can barely see eye colour let alone cheek shape, nose length, hair colour nuances, etc even with the graphics setting on maximum and practically nose to nose with another character (on the minimum setting it's worse, I think, than the character graphics of EQ1 before Luclin).

The main reason anyone wants the Soga models is that they want to have characters that look different from every other character (or at least somewhat varied) rather than a cookie cutter clone, wood_elf_7847 (copied from wood_elf_0007).




The soga models have much less varity than the orginals.   I spent hours last night playing around with the character customization and in some of the models you cant even change the eyes accept for color and they have fewer hair styles.   I really hope the old request for added features and fixes to the orginal models can be reconsidered now that this soga stuff is over. 
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Old 11-01-2005, 07:38 AM   #21
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alliam wrote:
Great summary of the norms of Asian cultures, Vicontessa.  I too have lived in Japan for a time and observed the same things.  Great post.

It was a very opinionated post.  Grouping billions of people across different cultures into single mindset is rather racist.  It should be pointed out that the soga models were NOT being used in the Japanese market.  The Japanese servers were using the same US models as we were.  The soga models were designed and being used in the China, Korean, and Taiwain market.

 
Your right stating what people that LIVE IN and SELL TO and ARE FROM that part of the world are saying about THERE contrman is racist. Man you have thin skin. Saying people that live in Mexico prefure there "sandwichs" rolled up in a thin flat bread(tortilla) rather then say White Bread is not racist its a statment of FACT.
 
I Quote from a resont artical in Computer Gaming World(Nov '05) about a game (Huxley) PRODUCED BY AN ASAIN BASED COMPANY.
 
"Koreans and Chinese don't demand a lot of diversity in their characters' apperances" says kim, "but North Americans - who we're designing Huxley for -  are different, wich is why we're letting you customize your character's facial features, hairstyle, and fashion."
 
as this is from a company who sells MANLY to Asian customers I would say HE not YOU is the one that knows what he is talking about.  BTW "kim's" full name is Sang Hun Kim and is Lead Designer on the game.
 
In closing stating coltural differances is NOT racist however IMO claming racism where none exsists while not directly racism it is just as bad. (cry racism when there is none and when there is racism people igrnore your claims allowing the real racism to continue)
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