Planes of Prophecy Profession Abilities: Scout - Page 2

11-04-2017, 03:47 PM

Thank you Taiyla. I am in the same position as you. They play me in raid because I have been playing several years in the same guild and always show up, but am already being replaced on many of the progression fights. The reason there aren't many dirges left in game is because most raiding guilds don't run them anymore. It really needs to be addressed if we are to become a feasible raid class again. I have already been asked about swapping to a different class, but there isn't anyway I would do that having to start all over again on a different toon.

11-05-2017, 08:14 PM

Assassin training level 105.

One of the options is Apply Poison, but we already get a group version which is better through AA.

11-07-2017, 08:50 PM

I guess I know the answer .. why don't u then betray ?

(I say that but wouldn't betray from bruiser to monk nor warden to fury ^^)

and yeah some classes became obsolete due to how the game changed.

And EQ2 devs always do work half. Like u stop making melee important .. but u don't change melee buffers

like changing stat buffs but not changing stat debuffs (and making stat buffs as % boost that dont change with better spell quality .. making sometimes an old tier GM better than a new tier expert)

they need really to change those stuffs, those buffs, those classes. because more and more people betray to be able to play.

Taiyla · 11-09-2017, 03:21 AM

Still wondering if this is bug? Two spells that basically do the same thing.......

11-09-2017, 07:43 AM

it's a bug.
Fierce combat is the proc in oration of sacrifice.

Succulent · 11-09-2017, 03:46 PM

I know i have already posted this once, but since its been over 2 weeks with no fix i will repost it: Brig lvl104 Dispatch is still acting as a group mitigation buff instead of a debuff and lvl 109 Daring Advance expert recipe is still showing usable by all scouts with no spell effects to it. I would really like to be able to test both of these out and i know there have been other more pressing issues to deal with but i want to repost this in case it was missed overlooked or jut forgotten about

11-09-2017, 05:13 PM

I actually have a troub on my account, which to be honest I never liked playing, and is why I play the dirge instead. I have a total of 18 toons on my account, although admittedly I haven't played them all for the most part since ToV, and only a few in ToT, but the dirge is the one that I used to enjoy playing, so it wouldn't make any sense for me to betray to a class I have never enjoyed.

The dirge used to be one of the best classes to play imo, but with nerf after nerf after nerf, the class has been pretty much destroyed. Since the implementation of the diety wheel in ToT it made no sense to spend time on alts since your main always needed more points, to use for miracles during raids and of course to improve stats, and those points have become ridiculously time consuming to get since the contested nerf. They added in the Yunzi quest so people could get caught up in potency to some degree, however that still means none of your alts are going to be up to par in crit bonus/stamina, and of course ascensions as well which are such rare drops and so overly expensive it would never make sense to use them on an alt. To play any alt you would be starting from scratch with a ridiculous amount of non stop grinding, dbc and in game plat to bring the toon up to the point where it can effectively group/raid, which I believe is a big part of the reason so many people have left game. The only way around this that I can see at the current rate of researching ascension upgrades would be to make the ascension upgrades account wide as well, or else increase the drop rates dramatically so that they are not so ridiculously rare people don't want to put them on their alts. If the deity wheel and ascensions were account wide it would take some of the load off and would make it more feasible to play alts again, but until that time I can't imagine doing that myself.

Most people I know that play dirges have already left the game because it is easier to start from scratch in another game where you can get caught up and make your toon feasible in a month or so than it is to play a class in everquest 2 where you might be able to gain enough diety points and ascensions to group/raid by the end of an expac if you play 6 hours a day. Anymore it's not even how well you play your class in EQ2, it is more about how many diety points you have and the level of your ascensions.

Most people actually have a life outside of EQ2... Smile

11-12-2017, 11:43 AM

dispatch bug

[IMG]

the worst/best part is that it effectivelly increases mitigation when cast BigGrin

Taiyla · 11-13-2017, 03:46 PM

Still haven't heard from a Dev as to whether this is a bug or intended and no changes have been made to these two spells. Honestly, why another "healing" spell for Dirges? We need something to make us more viable for raids and groups and this isn't it. I don't want to betray to a Troub.... I already have one. I'd just like Dirges to be needed again and able to keep up with the Troubs. Make Dirges great again, please.

11-13-2017, 04:49 PM

Daytona said: ↑

“Dirge Class Balance
There have always 4 main reasons to have a dirge in tank groups in a raid force:
1. Cacophony of Blades which is a raid wide buff to increase dps - a small buff that is raid wide when up.
2. Dirge battle rez to full health and power - due to a bug dirges cannot rez raid members to full health/power now even though they are spec'd for it, and with all healer classes now being able to provide a clean rez the dirge rez is virtually obsolete, especially when there are fights such as the trak fight where maintaining full power is a must and a dirge rez only provides 10-20% power (which on fights like the Trak fight means that people receiving a dirge rez die instantly).
3. Stone skin - with the amount of health and mit most raid members have these days, this has become moot.
4. Providing a hate buff to tanks - With the advent of the ethereal cloaks last summer, hate is no longer necessary because tanks are maxed out. The only way tanks can benefit is a hate transfer from either a swash or assassin

Dirges were always a melee class that also did nox damage, but the majority of our dps was melee. However at the start of the KA xpac, the melee nerf to combat arts reduced dirge dps drastically, making our dps mediocre at best. Another issue is that we cannot provide a hate reduction for the rest of our group like the troubs do. The only utility the dirge brings to a raid force anymore is CoB, a healer buff, some debuffs and VCs, however troubs can also provide VCs with basically the same debuffs, while providing a huge dehate for group members other than tanks, allowing tanks to keep hate off the group members. Hence the troub is a much more beneficial raid utility these days and would be the bard class to run in all four groups in a raid force.
I would like to suggest that rather than having troub dehate and dirge hate buffs, that the two be combined in PoP into one bard buff for both troubs and dirges that would provide hate to a tank while giving dehate to the rest of the group members. I would also like to suggest that the dirge battle rez issue be rectified so that it once again provides a full health/power rez to both individuals and groups when properly spec'd. I would also recommend either reducing the recast on confront fear considerably, which is the dirge clean for a rez, or perhaps changing the group rez to include a clean rez on all group members rezzed with it, but perhaps with a longer recast on it's use.
I have played a dirge for a very long time and truthfully have no desire to play any other class. I miss being a true melee class but with these modest changes perhaps the class will become a more feasible raid class once again.”

1. You state that one of the reasons to have a dirge in the MT group is because they have a raid wide buff. Why does it matter what group they are in if it's raid wide?

2. If the rez should be bringing people up with full power and is not, that should definitely be fixed! *bonks Devs*

3. Stone skins are still relevant regardless of how much HP we have. If I am sitting at 100 mil, and the stone skin saves me from getting 1 shotted for some reason, then it's worth it.

4. I dont think you "transfer" hate, as much as give the tank aggression correct, which as far as I am aware of does not "cap"? I do think that aggression is still a relevant stat for us, just not in the quantities that are given by a dirge. I don't remember how much you give, but the 20 or so compared to the 1k+ I have doesn't really get me excited.

I almost feel like this post is 3 years too late. Melee classes saw their DPS slide sometime in AoM, when the WDB stat was capped. This just continued getting worse and worse until Ascensions were introduced, and since then, most classes have adjusted to maximize their other caster stats to rely less and less on auto attack. Nowadays, you can just max everything out I guess.

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "melee nerf to combat arts". Most combat arts received a significant boost at the start of KA did they not?

For the "most" part, a lot of the troub buffs have now become obsolete as well, and honestly, the only thing that differentiates the classes anymore is the troub UT, and Abhorrent Verse... Dirges have their raid buff and other stuff to offset the UT, and I just wonder why even bother have 2 bard classes at all if you are going to suggest combining the only thing that differentiates them?

11-13-2017, 05:22 PM

don't forget jester's cap. (gravitas or fierce combat don't come close to jester's cap AA proc)
also the troubs works with both mages and melees .. dirges work less with mages (CoB (not sure) and dead calm work on melee hit, while maestro and aria now work on spells. And some CAs are considered as spells, they can double cast and stuff) Aria has also way better proc chance than dead calm.
troubs give -40 hate ... to the group
troubs have 9 fervor buff .. dirges have uncontested parry.

troubs are good in any group u place them. dirges a more limited, tank group or a pure scout group, but a troub would be just as fine

11-14-2017, 08:37 AM

About beastlord
Warder's Ferocity good idea, but without warder we can't use Feral Advanteges = can't increase savagery and use our feral primals
I think idea about this abilly = remove warder but give overcap?

11-14-2017, 08:41 AM

---
and everything is still not settled about stelth feral primals, we didn't have long stealth (assassin for exp.) or our epic not removed demands on stealth CA

11-14-2017, 08:44 AM

Definitely agree on JCap. It still does a considerable amount of damage, and u can maintain it 100% on yourself +1 other.

Everything else is meh. Aria of Magic is a non factor, even when it triggers off of spells and CB and does increased damage with the orange rune.

11-15-2017, 08:03 AM

[Beastlord's "Warder's Ferocity"]
When using "Warder's Ferocity" (both apprentice and GM ranks are affected), the effect cancels itself whenever I use a macro with several abilities in it. I tested each individual ability from my macro to see if there was a singular culprit, but none of them cancel the effect when being cast on their own. Only when being used in a macro with a list of abilities does this occur.

[Edit]: I've tried with other combination of abilities in macros and sometimes it cancels the effect, and some combination of abilities in the macro do not. /shrug.

Someone in discord #scouts mentioned WF cancelling itself while casting random CAs as well.

PS: This was all on a test dummy.

11-15-2017, 02:14 PM

I can't give an answer about those skills, but I would advise you to not rush into switching to troub just yet. I've run a bunch of heroics in beta, and my dirge was often the difference between the group wiping and killing the mob just from rezzes alone. That said, I wouldn't want the devs to think I'm happy with the troub/dirge balance, because I'm not, and I've considered switching to troub for the first time ever just because I'm bored stupid with rezzing people and it seems like the troub life is an easier life. Some kind of meaningful power regen would be nice though.

Taiyla · 11-15-2017, 03:06 PM

Thanks Frannk I'm not in a hurry to betray. I've been kept in raid this expac in the MT group. I also have a Troub I raid with on our off nights. I wouldn't say a Troub has it easier although they don't have rezzes, they do have AV which is called for often and Jcap to maintain on 2 people. Love the idea of a meaningful power regen for Dirges though, that would be awesome.

I would like to note that Fierce Combat hasn't disappeared from the spells and it doesn't have any upgrades available to be crafted. No Journeyman, Adept or Experts of Fierce Combat appear in the Jewelers books.

11-15-2017, 11:19 PM

Interestingly,all did the access conversion after 3-4 AA,and bards 9...where is the justice?..(
Now the conversion is available after 6 points,and will be after 9...this is what will fix it?

11-16-2017, 02:35 AM

Nero said: ↑

“1. You state that one of the reasons to have a dirge in the MT group is because they have a raid wide buff. Why does it matter what group they are in if it's raid wide?

2. If the rez should be bringing people up with full power and is not, that should definitely be fixed! *bonks Devs*

3. Stone skins are still relevant regardless of how much HP we have. If I am sitting at 100 mil, and the stone skin saves me from getting 1 shotted for some reason, then it's worth it.

4. I dont think you "transfer" hate, as much as give the tank aggression correct, which as far as I am aware of does not "cap"? I do think that aggression is still a relevant stat for us, just not in the quantities that are given by a dirge. I don't remember how much you give, but the 20 or so compared to the 1k+ I have doesn't really get me excited.

I almost feel like this post is 3 years too late. Melee classes saw their DPS slide sometime in AoM, when the WDB stat was capped. This just continued getting worse and worse until Ascensions were introduced, and since then, most classes have adjusted to maximize their other caster stats to rely less and less on auto attack. Nowadays, you can just max everything out I guess.

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "melee nerf to combat arts". Most combat arts received a significant boost at the start of KA did they not?

For the "most" part, a lot of the troub buffs have now become obsolete as well, and honestly, the only thing that differentiates the classes anymore is the troub UT, and Abhorrent Verse... Dirges have their raid buff and other stuff to offset the UT, and I just wonder why even bother have 2 bard classes at all if you are going to suggest combining the only thing that differentiates them?”

1. No, I stated that there were four main reasons to have a dirge in THE tank groupS in a raid, the first of which is provide a raid wide temp buff, CoB, which when alternated between two dirges can be up almost full time for the entire raid. Dirge buffs tend to be better for tank, such as increases in strength, agi and CAs, increased procs on dirge buffs etc.

2. Yes the dirge rez used to bring people up with full health and power when spec'd for it. Now that spec is useless, probably due to the increases in player power amounts over the last few years without ever increasing the amount on the rez.

3. Yes, the stone skin can still save you on a one shot IF it procs at that time, which can be a big IF, but for the most part the tanks rely on the shammy wards, which even though nerfed with the bleed through are still much more reliable.

4. Dirges have never had a hate transfer, we provide a tank buff that gives 37 hate/aggression, which with the advent of the ethereal cloaks is no longer a worthwhile buff, as you yourself pointed out in conversations I have had with you Nero. Yes I agree, 37 to hate/aggression is worthless since tanks now have more than 1k aggression. The only way to get more hate now is through a hate transfer from either a swash or an assassin.

Melee classes were still valid up through the current xpac, KA, but at the beginning of this xpac they nerfed it so badly that it is in effect a useless ability, and yes I have all of my abilities at the hard cap. They nerfed the WDB, they nerfed the dps, and they nerfed MA. The battle cry buff has been modified so that now, as well as it's original buff stats, it also gives a 25% pot increase to whoever it is put on based on the MA, but this buff has traditionally been for the T1-2 scout in the group, and they would have to spec to have roughly 4k in MA to get a 1k pot buff from it. Troubs on the other have have always been traditionally for caster groups, and their buffs are designed that way. Whereas a dirge is for melee/disease, the troub is more of a caster class, with their buffs designed for other caster classes. They do primarily arcane damage and always have. Troubs do not have stone skins, they do not have CoB or rezzes, and are designed primarily to give buffs that caster classes want/need. Troubs also have a raidwide buff as well called Perfection of the Maestro. So the hate/dehate is not the only difference between the two classes, however with current content, the dirge tank buff is completely useless. I am simply suggesting that the two buffs be merged into a single bard buff for expediency and it would probably be the easiest thing to do from a programming standpoint.

11-16-2017, 09:28 AM

I cant wait for class mergers instead of doing any meaningful actual class balancing, i will be a Swashonjuror and have a giant pet parrot to DPS!! Make happen, make it happen now!!!

11-16-2017, 10:43 AM

or maybe you'll be the parrot, pet of the conjuror !!

well .. no .. just a swarm pet .. Smile

11-16-2017, 11:48 AM

Earar I saw what did there and it made cry little Gnome tears because its true

Kaladz · 11-18-2017, 02:21 AM

Any chance we can get Dashing Swathe VIII as one of the Swashbuckler lvl 105 grandmaster choices instead of devious blade? Dashing Swathe is normally one of the options for swashbuckler class training spells.

duckster · 11-24-2017, 09:07 PM

Predator Off stances appear to be missing some form of buffage in place of the def stance having it .

Can we at least have the same stats applied to both assassin & ranger respective offensive stances? You will find it hard to come across using def stance except in very rare circumstances.

11-04-2017, 03:47 PM	#31
Daytona New Member Posts: n/a	Taiyla said: ↑ “Wonderful post! I totally agree I am also a long time dirge and have been kept in the raid probably because I've been raiding with the same guild for a long time and I'm a solid player. I would also like our rezzes to be faster casting so I don't get beat out by the healers whose rezzes cast twice as fast. Please make Dirges more viable in the future.” Thank you Taiyla. I am in the same position as you. They play me in raid because I have been playing several years in the same guild and always show up, but am already being replaced on many of the progression fights. The reason there aren't many dirges left in game is because most raiding guilds don't run them anymore. It really needs to be addressed if we are to become a feasible raid class again. I have already been asked about swapping to a different class, but there isn't anyway I would do that having to start all over again on a different toon.

11-07-2017, 08:50 PM	#33
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	Daytona said: ↑ “Thank you Taiyla. I am in the same position as you. They play me in raid because I have been playing several years in the same guild and always show up, but am already being replaced on many of the progression fights. The reason there aren't many dirges left in game is because most raiding guilds don't run them anymore. It really needs to be addressed if we are to become a feasible raid class again. I have already been asked about swapping to a different class, but there isn't anyway I would do that having to start all over again on a different toon.” I guess I know the answer .. why don't u then betray ? (I say that but wouldn't betray from bruiser to monk nor warden to fury ^^) and yeah some classes became obsolete due to how the game changed. And EQ2 devs always do work half. Like u stop making melee important .. but u don't change melee buffers like changing stat buffs but not changing stat debuffs (and making stat buffs as % boost that dont change with better spell quality .. making sometimes an old tier GM better than a new tier expert) they need really to change those stuffs, those buffs, those classes. because more and more people betray to be able to play.

11-09-2017, 03:21 AM	#34
Taiyla New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Taiyla said: ↑ “I realize very few play Dirges anymore but I'm wondering why Dirges got two spells that are basically the same. The description is the same for both up to the effects. Just doesn't seem right to me. ” Still wondering if this is bug? Two spells that basically do the same thing.......

11-09-2017, 05:13 PM	#37
Daytona New Member Posts: n/a	Earar said: ↑ “I guess I know the answer .. why don't u then betray ? (I say that but wouldn't betray from bruiser to monk nor warden to fury ^^) and yeah some classes became obsolete due to how the game changed. And EQ2 devs always do work half. Like u stop making melee important .. but u don't change melee buffers like changing stat buffs but not changing stat debuffs (and making stat buffs as % boost that dont change with better spell quality .. making sometimes an old tier GM better than a new tier expert) they need really to change those stuffs, those buffs, those classes. because more and more people betray to be able to play.” I actually have a troub on my account, which to be honest I never liked playing, and is why I play the dirge instead. I have a total of 18 toons on my account, although admittedly I haven't played them all for the most part since ToV, and only a few in ToT, but the dirge is the one that I used to enjoy playing, so it wouldn't make any sense for me to betray to a class I have never enjoyed. The dirge used to be one of the best classes to play imo, but with nerf after nerf after nerf, the class has been pretty much destroyed. Since the implementation of the diety wheel in ToT it made no sense to spend time on alts since your main always needed more points, to use for miracles during raids and of course to improve stats, and those points have become ridiculously time consuming to get since the contested nerf. They added in the Yunzi quest so people could get caught up in potency to some degree, however that still means none of your alts are going to be up to par in crit bonus/stamina, and of course ascensions as well which are such rare drops and so overly expensive it would never make sense to use them on an alt. To play any alt you would be starting from scratch with a ridiculous amount of non stop grinding, dbc and in game plat to bring the toon up to the point where it can effectively group/raid, which I believe is a big part of the reason so many people have left game. The only way around this that I can see at the current rate of researching ascension upgrades would be to make the ascension upgrades account wide as well, or else increase the drop rates dramatically so that they are not so ridiculously rare people don't want to put them on their alts. If the deity wheel and ascensions were account wide it would take some of the load off and would make it more feasible to play alts again, but until that time I can't imagine doing that myself. Most people I know that play dirges have already left the game because it is easier to start from scratch in another game where you can get caught up and make your toon feasible in a month or so than it is to play a class in everquest 2 where you might be able to gain enough diety points and ascensions to group/raid by the end of an expac if you play 6 hours a day. Anymore it's not even how well you play your class in EQ2, it is more about how many diety points you have and the level of your ascensions. Most people actually have a life outside of EQ2...

11-12-2017, 11:43 AM	#38
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	dispatch bug the worst/best part is that it effectivelly increases mitigation when cast

11-05-2017, 08:14 PM	#32
olleran Member Posts: n/a	Assassin training level 105. One of the options is Apply Poison, but we already get a group version which is better through AA.

11-09-2017, 07:43 AM	#35
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	it's a bug. Fierce combat is the proc in oration of sacrifice.

11-09-2017, 03:46 PM	#36
Succulent New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I know i have already posted this once, but since its been over 2 weeks with no fix i will repost it: Brig lvl104 Dispatch is still acting as a group mitigation buff instead of a debuff and lvl 109 Daring Advance expert recipe is still showing usable by all scouts with no spell effects to it. I would really like to be able to test both of these out and i know there have been other more pressing issues to deal with but i want to repost this in case it was missed overlooked or jut forgotten about

11-13-2017, 03:46 PM	#39
Taiyla New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Taiyla said: ↑ “Still wondering if this is bug? Two spells that basically do the same thing.......” Still haven't heard from a Dev as to whether this is a bug or intended and no changes have been made to these two spells. Honestly, why another "healing" spell for Dirges? We need something to make us more viable for raids and groups and this isn't it. I don't want to betray to a Troub.... I already have one. I'd just like Dirges to be needed again and able to keep up with the Troubs. Make Dirges great again, please.

11-13-2017, 04:49 PM	#40
Nero New Member Posts: n/a	Daytona said: ↑ “Dirge Class Balance There have always 4 main reasons to have a dirge in tank groups in a raid force: 1. Cacophony of Blades which is a raid wide buff to increase dps - a small buff that is raid wide when up. 2. Dirge battle rez to full health and power - due to a bug dirges cannot rez raid members to full health/power now even though they are spec'd for it, and with all healer classes now being able to provide a clean rez the dirge rez is virtually obsolete, especially when there are fights such as the trak fight where maintaining full power is a must and a dirge rez only provides 10-20% power (which on fights like the Trak fight means that people receiving a dirge rez die instantly). 3. Stone skin - with the amount of health and mit most raid members have these days, this has become moot. 4. Providing a hate buff to tanks - With the advent of the ethereal cloaks last summer, hate is no longer necessary because tanks are maxed out. The only way tanks can benefit is a hate transfer from either a swash or assassin Dirges were always a melee class that also did nox damage, but the majority of our dps was melee. However at the start of the KA xpac, the melee nerf to combat arts reduced dirge dps drastically, making our dps mediocre at best. Another issue is that we cannot provide a hate reduction for the rest of our group like the troubs do. The only utility the dirge brings to a raid force anymore is CoB, a healer buff, some debuffs and VCs, however troubs can also provide VCs with basically the same debuffs, while providing a huge dehate for group members other than tanks, allowing tanks to keep hate off the group members. Hence the troub is a much more beneficial raid utility these days and would be the bard class to run in all four groups in a raid force. I would like to suggest that rather than having troub dehate and dirge hate buffs, that the two be combined in PoP into one bard buff for both troubs and dirges that would provide hate to a tank while giving dehate to the rest of the group members. I would also like to suggest that the dirge battle rez issue be rectified so that it once again provides a full health/power rez to both individuals and groups when properly spec'd. I would also recommend either reducing the recast on confront fear considerably, which is the dirge clean for a rez, or perhaps changing the group rez to include a clean rez on all group members rezzed with it, but perhaps with a longer recast on it's use. I have played a dirge for a very long time and truthfully have no desire to play any other class. I miss being a true melee class but with these modest changes perhaps the class will become a more feasible raid class once again.” 1. You state that one of the reasons to have a dirge in the MT group is because they have a raid wide buff. Why does it matter what group they are in if it's raid wide? 2. If the rez should be bringing people up with full power and is not, that should definitely be fixed! bonks Devs 3. Stone skins are still relevant regardless of how much HP we have. If I am sitting at 100 mil, and the stone skin saves me from getting 1 shotted for some reason, then it's worth it. 4. I dont think you "transfer" hate, as much as give the tank aggression correct, which as far as I am aware of does not "cap"? I do think that aggression is still a relevant stat for us, just not in the quantities that are given by a dirge. I don't remember how much you give, but the 20 or so compared to the 1k+ I have doesn't really get me excited. I almost feel like this post is 3 years too late. Melee classes saw their DPS slide sometime in AoM, when the WDB stat was capped. This just continued getting worse and worse until Ascensions were introduced, and since then, most classes have adjusted to maximize their other caster stats to rely less and less on auto attack. Nowadays, you can just max everything out I guess. I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "melee nerf to combat arts". Most combat arts received a significant boost at the start of KA did they not? For the "most" part, a lot of the troub buffs have now become obsolete as well, and honestly, the only thing that differentiates the classes anymore is the troub UT, and Abhorrent Verse... Dirges have their raid buff and other stuff to offset the UT, and I just wonder why even bother have 2 bard classes at all if you are going to suggest combining the only thing that differentiates them?

11-13-2017, 05:22 PM	#41
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	don't forget jester's cap. (gravitas or fierce combat don't come close to jester's cap AA proc) also the troubs works with both mages and melees .. dirges work less with mages (CoB (not sure) and dead calm work on melee hit, while maestro and aria now work on spells. And some CAs are considered as spells, they can double cast and stuff) Aria has also way better proc chance than dead calm. troubs give -40 hate ... to the group troubs have 9 fervor buff .. dirges have uncontested parry. troubs are good in any group u place them. dirges a more limited, tank group or a pure scout group, but a troub would be just as fine

11-14-2017, 08:37 AM	#42
Dzir Member Posts: n/a	About beastlord Warder's Ferocity good idea, but without warder we can't use Feral Advanteges = can't increase savagery and use our feral primals I think idea about this abilly = remove warder but give overcap?

11-14-2017, 08:41 AM	#43
Dzir Member Posts: n/a	Dzir said: ↑ “About beastlord Warder's Ferocity good idea, but without warder we can't use Feral Advanteges = can't increase savagery and use our feral primals I think idea about this abilly = remove warder but give overcap?” --- and everything is still not settled about stelth feral primals, we didn't have long stealth (assassin for exp.) or our epic not removed demands on stealth CA

11-14-2017, 08:44 AM	#44
Nero New Member Posts: n/a	Earar said: ↑ “don't forget jester's cap. (gravitas or fierce combat don't come close to jester's cap AA proc) also the troubs works with both mages and melees .. dirges work less with mages (CoB (not sure) and dead calm work on melee hit, while maestro and aria now work on spells. And some CAs are considered as spells, they can double cast and stuff) Aria has also way better proc chance than dead calm. troubs give -40 hate ... to the group troubs have 9 fervor buff .. dirges have uncontested parry. troubs are good in any group u place them. dirges a more limited, tank group or a pure scout group, but a troub would be just as fine” Definitely agree on JCap. It still does a considerable amount of damage, and u can maintain it 100% on yourself +1 other. Everything else is meh. Aria of Magic is a non factor, even when it triggers off of spells and CB and does increased damage with the orange rune.

11-15-2017, 08:03 AM	#45
Wgrace Member Posts: n/a	[Beastlord's "Warder's Ferocity"] When using "Warder's Ferocity" (both apprentice and GM ranks are affected), the effect cancels itself whenever I use a macro with several abilities in it. I tested each individual ability from my macro to see if there was a singular culprit, but none of them cancel the effect when being cast on their own. Only when being used in a macro with a list of abilities does this occur. [Edit]: I've tried with other combination of abilities in macros and sometimes it cancels the effect, and some combination of abilities in the macro do not. /shrug. Someone in discord #scouts mentioned WF cancelling itself while casting random CAs as well. PS: This was all on a test dummy.

11-15-2017, 02:14 PM	#46
maxximum Member Posts: n/a	Taiyla said: ↑ “ Still haven't heard from a Dev as to whether this is a bug or intended and no changes have been made to these two spells. Honestly, why another "healing" spell for Dirges? We need something to make us more viable for raids and groups and this isn't it. I don't want to betray to a Troub.... I already have one. I'd just like Dirges to be needed again and able to keep up with the Troubs. Make Dirges great again, please.” I can't give an answer about those skills, but I would advise you to not rush into switching to troub just yet. I've run a bunch of heroics in beta, and my dirge was often the difference between the group wiping and killing the mob just from rezzes alone. That said, I wouldn't want the devs to think I'm happy with the troub/dirge balance, because I'm not, and I've considered switching to troub for the first time ever just because I'm bored stupid with rezzing people and it seems like the troub life is an easier life. Some kind of meaningful power regen would be nice though.

11-15-2017, 03:06 PM	#47
Taiyla New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	maxximum said: ↑ “I can't give an answer about those skills, but I would advise you to not rush into switching to troub just yet. I've run a bunch of heroics in beta, and my dirge was often the difference between the group wiping and killing the mob just from rezzes alone. That said, I wouldn't want the devs to think I'm happy with the troub/dirge balance, because I'm not, and I've considered switching to troub for the first time ever just because I'm bored stupid with rezzing people and it seems like the troub life is an easier life. Some kind of meaningful power regen would be nice though.” Thanks Frannk I'm not in a hurry to betray. I've been kept in raid this expac in the MT group. I also have a Troub I raid with on our off nights. I wouldn't say a Troub has it easier although they don't have rezzes, they do have AV which is called for often and Jcap to maintain on 2 people. Love the idea of a meaningful power regen for Dirges though, that would be awesome. I would like to note that Fierce Combat hasn't disappeared from the spells and it doesn't have any upgrades available to be crafted. No Journeyman, Adept or Experts of Fierce Combat appear in the Jewelers books.

11-15-2017, 11:19 PM	#48
RomanSergeevich New Member Posts: n/a	Interestingly,all did the access conversion after 3-4 AA,and bards 9...where is the justice?..( Now the conversion is available after 6 points,and will be after 9...this is what will fix it?

11-16-2017, 02:35 AM	#49
Daytona New Member Posts: n/a	Nero said: ↑ “1. You state that one of the reasons to have a dirge in the MT group is because they have a raid wide buff. Why does it matter what group they are in if it's raid wide? 2. If the rez should be bringing people up with full power and is not, that should definitely be fixed! bonks Devs 3. Stone skins are still relevant regardless of how much HP we have. If I am sitting at 100 mil, and the stone skin saves me from getting 1 shotted for some reason, then it's worth it. 4. I dont think you "transfer" hate, as much as give the tank aggression correct, which as far as I am aware of does not "cap"? I do think that aggression is still a relevant stat for us, just not in the quantities that are given by a dirge. I don't remember how much you give, but the 20 or so compared to the 1k+ I have doesn't really get me excited. I almost feel like this post is 3 years too late. Melee classes saw their DPS slide sometime in AoM, when the WDB stat was capped. This just continued getting worse and worse until Ascensions were introduced, and since then, most classes have adjusted to maximize their other caster stats to rely less and less on auto attack. Nowadays, you can just max everything out I guess. I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "melee nerf to combat arts". Most combat arts received a significant boost at the start of KA did they not? For the "most" part, a lot of the troub buffs have now become obsolete as well, and honestly, the only thing that differentiates the classes anymore is the troub UT, and Abhorrent Verse... Dirges have their raid buff and other stuff to offset the UT, and I just wonder why even bother have 2 bard classes at all if you are going to suggest combining the only thing that differentiates them?” 1. No, I stated that there were four main reasons to have a dirge in THE tank groupS in a raid, the first of which is provide a raid wide temp buff, CoB, which when alternated between two dirges can be up almost full time for the entire raid. Dirge buffs tend to be better for tank, such as increases in strength, agi and CAs, increased procs on dirge buffs etc. 2. Yes the dirge rez used to bring people up with full health and power when spec'd for it. Now that spec is useless, probably due to the increases in player power amounts over the last few years without ever increasing the amount on the rez. 3. Yes, the stone skin can still save you on a one shot IF it procs at that time, which can be a big IF, but for the most part the tanks rely on the shammy wards, which even though nerfed with the bleed through are still much more reliable. 4. Dirges have never had a hate transfer, we provide a tank buff that gives 37 hate/aggression, which with the advent of the ethereal cloaks is no longer a worthwhile buff, as you yourself pointed out in conversations I have had with you Nero. Yes I agree, 37 to hate/aggression is worthless since tanks now have more than 1k aggression. The only way to get more hate now is through a hate transfer from either a swash or an assassin. Melee classes were still valid up through the current xpac, KA, but at the beginning of this xpac they nerfed it so badly that it is in effect a useless ability, and yes I have all of my abilities at the hard cap. They nerfed the WDB, they nerfed the dps, and they nerfed MA. The battle cry buff has been modified so that now, as well as it's original buff stats, it also gives a 25% pot increase to whoever it is put on based on the MA, but this buff has traditionally been for the T1-2 scout in the group, and they would have to spec to have roughly 4k in MA to get a 1k pot buff from it. Troubs on the other have have always been traditionally for caster groups, and their buffs are designed that way. Whereas a dirge is for melee/disease, the troub is more of a caster class, with their buffs designed for other caster classes. They do primarily arcane damage and always have. Troubs do not have stone skins, they do not have CoB or rezzes, and are designed primarily to give buffs that caster classes want/need. Troubs also have a raidwide buff as well called Perfection of the Maestro. So the hate/dehate is not the only difference between the two classes, however with current content, the dirge tank buff is completely useless. I am simply suggesting that the two buffs be merged into a single bard buff for expediency and it would probably be the easiest thing to do from a programming standpoint.

11-16-2017, 09:28 AM	#50
Redlight New Member Posts: n/a	I cant wait for class mergers instead of doing any meaningful actual class balancing, i will be a Swashonjuror and have a giant pet parrot to DPS!! Make happen, make it happen now!!!

11-16-2017, 10:43 AM	#51
Earar Well-Known Member Posts: n/a	or maybe you'll be the parrot, pet of the conjuror !! well .. no .. just a swarm pet ..

11-16-2017, 11:48 AM	#52
Redlight New Member Posts: n/a	Earar I saw what did there and it made cry little Gnome tears because its true

11-18-2017, 02:21 AM	#53
Kaladz Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Any chance we can get Dashing Swathe VIII as one of the Swashbuckler lvl 105 grandmaster choices instead of devious blade? Dashing Swathe is normally one of the options for swashbuckler class training spells.

11-24-2017, 09:07 PM	#54
duckster Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Predator Off stances appear to be missing some form of buffage in place of the def stance having it . Can we at least have the same stats applied to both assassin & ranger respective offensive stances? You will find it hard to come across using def stance except in very rare circumstances.