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Old 11-01-2012, 02:27 AM   #1
Estred

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This is a Guardian Encounter based Damage/Taunt as described below in-game.

"An area of effect melee attack that increases the target encounters hate towards the guardian"

At lvl 92 Master it has these stats (keep in mind these are with 9.2% cast speed and 71% reuse)

- cast is low because mostly to get it as a guardian I would have to Reforge and it barely affects most of our CA's

Target: Enemy

Power: 158

Cast: 1.83 seconds (this is the problem with this spell)

Recast: 17.5 seconds.

Now it only hits for 8,952 unmodified by CB/Potency the only problem with this spell is that it takes so long to cast, almost two seconds, that in todays quick-paced fights its a wast to cast because the guardian could do more hate AE(blue) by casting Assault and Dragoon Spin (especially if they have the hate advancement on Assault).

This spell needs to be a faster cast basically a melee range version of Shout to be worth casting. I would suggest using Shouts cast with a small increase as it does damage for TA. The number I have figured out is .63 seconds which is .21 slow than shout but faster than Assault since TA is encounter based not a true Area Effect spell.

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Old 11-01-2012, 04:02 AM   #2
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it's far from useless as you said your cast speed is on 9.2% so of coarse it is going to be less then optimum up your casting speed, it's not soe problem that yours is so low. also your reuse speed you are only getting a reuse speed gain of 50% the rest of it wasted.

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Old 11-01-2012, 07:42 AM   #3
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General_Info wrote:

it's far from useless as you said your cast speed is on 9.2% so of coarse it is going to be less then optimum up your casting speed, it's not soe problem that yours is so low. also your reuse speed you are only getting a reuse speed gain of 50% the rest of it wasted.

You don't think the fact that it's a 9k taunt in a world of individuals doing 500k DPS is a problem? SMILEY

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Old 11-01-2012, 09:53 AM   #4
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feldon30 wrote:

General_Info wrote:

it's far from useless as you said your cast speed is on 9.2% so of coarse it is going to be less then optimum up your casting speed, it's not soe problem that yours is so low. also your reuse speed you are only getting a reuse speed gain of 50% the rest of it wasted.

You don't think the fact that it's a 9k taunt in a world of individuals doing 500k DPS is a problem?

I dont have a guardian upto top tier to make an informed oppinon about how effective it is. i was merely pointing out my oppinon based on what he had said and it seemed to me he was complaining about the reuse and not the specified taunt amount.  i have taunts within the same hate range as taunting assault and yes the reuse can be a bit annoying even when you have it to a high amount but it is balanced around it being an AOE taunt and not a single target taunt.

i have a 92 palladin and yes it can be annoying having trouble controling hate but their are remides for that the op did not specify what actions he has taken to make his role of keeping agro easier instead he has just complained about the ability itself.

I've had easy groups where it aitn hard to keep agro then i've had harder groups where it takes effort to keep agro

how high is his hate gain mod? what other taunts does he have? what research level are they at? what is the difference in gear between him and DPS people in a grp who are suitably geared and pump out dps like champs?

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Old 11-01-2012, 01:40 PM   #5
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General_Info wrote:

I dont have a guardian upto top tier to make an informed oppinon about how effective it is.

That's where you should have stopped.

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Old 11-01-2012, 01:55 PM   #6
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Juggercap wrote:

General_Info wrote:

I dont have a guardian upto top tier to make an informed oppinon about how effective it is.

That's where you should have stopped.

unlike you i am trying to be helpful. experiance with one tank class can be useful to another. it's obvious the op is having trouble keeping agro but since he hasnt provided any details other then his reuse and casting speed it's impossible to tell wether he is really just having a hard time with the ability itself or wether he doesnt have specific stats at acceptable levels in order to effectively use the tools he has.

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Old 11-01-2012, 02:31 PM   #7
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I don't play a lvl 92 guardian (or tank) either, but I heal one in raid. Our raid's MT is a guardian and unless some rocket scientist dps hits a nuke before placement,  he rarely has aggro issues. As MT, he's not snapping the adds as much, so he doesn't have as much use for AoE taunts, especially given the OT is an SK, but his taunting assault still parses around 4% of his threat out. While that isn't huge, it is still far from useless.

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Old 11-01-2012, 03:35 PM   #8
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In a raid agro is much different than in a grp though.  I can pop pft and hit my dragon essence, go through my whole chain and still not grab agro in a raid.  Between my hate transfer to the tank, enraging demeanor on the tank, link on me, their single target or grp hate transfer, shouts, etc., there are the mechanics in place for most tanks who have a vauge idea what they are doing to hold agro in raids.

In a group setting (what he mentioned I believe), it is much harder for a tank to hold agro.  If we're in Sleeper's Tomb, even with a coercer and a bard with hate on the tank, and even if the tank is a pally with amends, agro can still be ripped pretty easily if I am looking to do that.  When the dps is parsing 600k ish, and the fighter is throwing out 10-20k taunts and doing 150k dps, it's going to be really tough for them to hold agro.

Mostly it's just the dps needs to know what they are doing and watch their hate meter and not be stupid.  I would totally agree with Feldon that threat needs to be looked at, but with better casting speed this AE shouldn't be taking much more than a second to cast, so I think there is a bigger issue to look at than just one AE.

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Old 11-01-2012, 04:52 PM   #9
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In groups dps toons do have to be more responsible for their aggro as there tend to be fewer buffs around. That doesn't make tank taunt abilies -less- useful in a group then they are in a raid, however.

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Old 11-01-2012, 04:52 PM   #10
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As a raid MT guardian, I don't use this ability. Even with 100% Cast Speed and Reuse, the threat generated, versus the casting time, and damage done... This isn't a taunt worth putting on my hotbar. I maintain aggro better without it. In the time it takes to cast this ability, I could have used provoke and any other CA i have which would equal a bigger taunt, and more damage.

Sorry , this is a total fail CA.

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Old 11-01-2012, 08:11 PM   #11
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Juggercap wrote:

General_Info wrote:

I dont have a guardian upto top tier to make an informed oppinon about how effective it is.

That's where you should have stopped.

HI, I'm a raid MT guardian who's been one since pretty much the game started.

This ability is completely useless.  You only consider hitting it under the following conditions:

1. ABSOLUTELY no other ability is available to cast.2. You've been jcaped or ROA'd AND your attack speed has been debuffed AND no other encounter or AOE is available and encounter threat is actually needed.

So pretty much, never.

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Old 11-02-2012, 12:54 AM   #12
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General_Info wrote:

Juggercap wrote:

General_Info wrote:

I dont have a guardian upto top tier to make an informed oppinon about how effective it is.

That's where you should have stopped.

unlike you i am trying to be helpful. experiance with one tank class can be useful to another. it's obvious the op is having trouble keeping agro but since he hasnt provided any details other then his reuse and casting speed it's impossible to tell wether he is really just having a hard time with the ability itself or wether he doesnt have specific stats at acceptable levels in order to effectively use the tools he has.

Unlike me? I am trying to be helpful. When you don't have a clue about what you're talking about, giving input isn't really very helpful.

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Old 11-02-2012, 01:39 AM   #13
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Juggercap wrote:

Unlike me? I am trying to be helpful. When you don't have a clue about what you're talking about, giving input isn't really very helpful.

having no clue, having incomplete knowlege of a subject and making an informed oppinon on a subject are three very different things. which of the three categories do you fall under?

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Old 11-02-2012, 12:58 PM   #14
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Taunting Assault is the CA I hit when I have absolutely nothing else to hit, and even then I'm usually better off casting nothing so I don't mess with my autoattack which hits for more.

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Old 11-05-2012, 12:42 PM   #15
Boethius_Permafrost

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Just to make it not class specific - green ae's are good for pulling linked encounters.  You spend the cast time waiting for the group to get in position, and you're not losing autoattack because your bow is still recycling. 

(pretty specialized use, but better than nothing)

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Old 11-05-2012, 02:09 PM   #16
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Enr[email protected] wrote:

Just to make it not class specific - green ae's are good for pulling linked encounters.  You spend the cast time waiting for the group to get in position, and you're not losing autoattack because your bow is still recycling. 

(pretty specialized use, but better than nothing)

If you played this class, you would understand the range on the ability is not sufficient to use as you stated.

Its a melee ranged ability with an obnoxiously long cast time.   If it had the same cast time and a 25+ meter range to use for pulling, it might be useful as you stated.

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