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Old 12-21-2011, 11:10 PM   #1
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I believe there should be a consolidation for PvE and PvP stats within gear that is gained on the Nagafen server. The main reason for PvP and PvE stats splitting is because of unbalanced and overpowering mechanic-play. I believe, instead of having PvP gear be required, we should put toughness and PvP stats on much of the legendary gear we gain in many of the instances. This will encourage farming of dungeons, and will increase the rate in which PvP is achieved in popular zone hubs.

Summary:

  • Give legendary gear PvP stats
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:19 PM   #2
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or we could just get rid of pvp stats and use gear from the world to fight in the world...

if only they had thought of this in the KoS days we could have had awesome pvp then! /sarcasism

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:15 AM   #3
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Yes. Take out pvp gear.

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Old 12-22-2011, 08:00 AM   #4
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[email protected] wrote:

Yes. Take out pvp gear.

The only concern with this is how overpowered raiders will become - especially those killing everything.

Perhaps not so much now, where the difference between an upgraded item and another item is "0.5% potency", but perhaps in the future and certainly when we look at gear in the past.

Unfortunately, that doesn't make removing PVP gear a good option. I'm still really of the opinion that an equation should be added (which Dorsan and I discussed and shared numerous times) to convert PVP stats and PVE stats. Basically we'd keep the PVP stats we have now (and add PVP stats for blue stats we're missing), and then convert back and forth.

That way, PVP gear will be the best for PVP, and PVE gear will be the best for PVE.. but they'll be usable for either - and we'd be able to prevent PVE gear from becoming super OP in PVP.. and vice versa.

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Old 12-22-2011, 11:53 AM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

Yes. Take out pvp gear.

Seriously?? lol

To that sir, I politely say hell no. That's probably the least thought-out statement I've heard in a while. This will make raiders permanently the top PVPers, not by skill but by gear. Right now they still have the edge due to many raid jewelry attained procs or stats that are extremely OP in PVP. You're saying get rid of PVP gear for PVP, that's just silly.

To satisfy the craving of personalization to PVPers, I say for there to be a wider selection of PVP gear and jewelry that is of the DoV standard. One of the bigger complaints about PVP gear is that people feel that they are geared just like everyone else so more gear (good PVP gear/jewelry) to choose from would be a good solution.

Total separation of stats and a ton of good PVP gear/jewelry to choose from would be the best solution to make sure that PVP is on a fair plate for all imo. It doesn't make sense to me that because you raid 40hrs/week you should have the best gear for PVP. You should have the best gear for PVE, not PVP. Let those that PVP 40hrs/week get the good gear for PVP, keep raiding separate from PVP as it should be.

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:04 PM   #6
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[email protected] wrote:

Yes. Take out pvp gear.

No, Take you out. Perhaps with a candy cane and ship off to WoW or SWTOR. please...

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:21 PM   #7
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I completely agree, get rid of pvp only gear.

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:26 PM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Yes. Take out pvp gear.

<>

Total separation of stats and a ton of good PVP gear/jewelry to choose from would be the best solution to make sure that PVP is on a fair plate for all imo. It doesn't make sense to me that because you raid 40hrs/week you should have the best gear for PVP. You should have the best gear for PVE, not PVP. Let those that PVP 40hrs/week get the good gear for PVP, keep raiding separate from PVP as it should be.

Ideally, yes this is how it should be. But with the here and there additions of new pvp gear, this system does not work either.  With only one set of gear, there is less balancing to be done. Colsolidate the two sides, and have raid gear's power diminished in pvp. Keep the path for pvp only progression by adding adorns that add good pvp-only stats.

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:37 PM   #9
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Stats for pvp and pve never should have been separated.

The whole point of pvp gear was so that people wouldn't have to raid to compete with raiders in pvp.

But then, raiders started complaining that pvp gear was good for raiding, and pvpers started complaining that raid gear was good for pvping, and Sony Devs, acted like idiots and listened to players, and separated the stats and made gear and stats specifically for each kind of activity.

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:39 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Yes. Take out pvp gear.

<>

Total separation of stats and a ton of good PVP gear/jewelry to choose from would be the best solution to make sure that PVP is on a fair plate for all imo. It doesn't make sense to me that because you raid 40hrs/week you should have the best gear for PVP. You should have the best gear for PVE, not PVP. Let those that PVP 40hrs/week get the good gear for PVP, keep raiding separate from PVP as it should be.

Ideally, yes this is how it should be. But with the here and there additions of new pvp gear, this system does not work either.  With only one set of gear, there is less balancing to be done. Colsolidate the two sides, and have raid gear's power diminished in pvp. Keep the path for pvp only progression by adding adorns that add good pvp-only stats.

What exactly do you mean by, "have raid gear's power diminished in pvp"? How would you do that? Would you decrease the flurry on it? Decrease the casting speed/haste/dps/abilmod once engaged? Do you mean decrease it by a % or what?

Its not that difficult, just separate all stats from PVP-PVE. That way everyone can start fresh and actually go OUT and PVP for their PVP gear!

"Wait a sec...so this means I'll have to actually PVP for my PVP gear?!"

Yes, yes you do.

I'm pretty sure that with the addition of more upgraded and assorted PVP gear, all will be soothed for the raiders that don't want to part with their precious raid PVP jewelry/weapons. Its not a hard concept to understand.

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:55 PM   #11
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Lilflier wrote:

Stats for pvp and pve never should have been separated.

The whole point of pvp gear was so that people wouldn't have to raid to compete with raiders in pvp.

But then, raiders started complaining that pvp gear was good for raiding, and pvpers started complaining that raid gear was good for pvping, and Sony Devs, acted like idiots and listened to players, and separated the stats and made gear and stats specifically for each kind of activity.

What??

PVP gear has NEVER been good for raiding. It was ok for heroic instances at best. I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Unless you are talking about anything below 80 raid instances.

PVP and PVE separation, the way it was done was not good. They should have done all stats, not all. Its silly to think that they separated multi attack into a pvp stat and not separate flurry (flurry=300% MA) since its the determining factor in a melee 1v1 these days.

On another note, PVP critical mitigation has been made useless cause of the fact that everyone wears PVE weapons and ranged items to get their crit chance way above what you can get on PVP gear for crit mit to defend yourself with. Makes no sense.

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Old 12-22-2011, 01:02 PM   #12
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Shouldn’t you get your pvp gear from pvping?

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Old 12-22-2011, 01:21 PM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

Lilflier wrote:

Stats for pvp and pve never should have been separated.

The whole point of pvp gear was so that people wouldn't have to raid to compete with raiders in pvp.

But then, raiders started complaining that pvp gear was good for raiding, and pvpers started complaining that raid gear was good for pvping, and Sony Devs, acted like idiots and listened to players, and separated the stats and made gear and stats specifically for each kind of activity.

What??

PVP gear has NEVER been good for raiding. It was ok for heroic instances at best. I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Unless you are talking about anything below 80 raid instances.

PVP and PVE separation, the way it was done was not good. They should have done all stats, not all. Its silly to think that they separated multi attack into a pvp stat and not separate flurry (flurry=300% MA) since its the determining factor in a melee 1v1 these days.

On another note, PVP critical mitigation has been made useless cause of the fact that everyone wears PVE weapons and ranged items to get their crit chance way above what you can get on PVP gear for crit mit to defend yourself with. Makes no sense.

Actually the TSO pvp gear was quite acceptable for raiding. It was near equivalent to the corresponding PVE TSP raid gear.  I found myself always replacing the TSO PVP aquired piece with the corresponding TSO PVE aquired piece as did others but gear wise they were near identical with the pvp pieces slightly being better for pvp and the pve peieces being slightly better for pve.

Blue servers cried foul as the gear could be easily zerged on Nagafen, not so easily on Venekor (we were quite barren by mid spring-summer back then) and thus give pvp servers an unfair advantange towards Raid zone progression as the subsequent PVE piece had not yet aquired through kill/progression.  There was some merit to this arguement back then.

Now however we have RG and Drunder gear and even EoW gear that is very near or better than EM raid quality gear.  How many of us have not replaced our EM forearms and legs with EoW gear?  The TSO gear model was far superior to what we have today. 

Different classes benefit from raid jewelry to different degress.  My paly, inqy, ranger, bruiser can continue to wear raid jewelry in lieu of pvp jewelry to beneft greatly from the ability mods, fluries, and +health whereas my guard will actually die faster solo in much better raid jewelry if I do not equip the pvp jewelry at a significant loss of HP.  We need new acceptable jewelry in the game ASAP - some classes more than others due to how some classes benefit form those blue stats that were not consolidated to a greater degree than others but all equally deserve an update as we have recieved squat pvp updates and lived through hellish pvp neglect for over a year now.

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Old 12-22-2011, 03:32 PM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

Lilflier wrote:

Stats for pvp and pve never should have been separated.

The whole point of pvp gear was so that people wouldn't have to raid to compete with raiders in pvp.

But then, raiders started complaining that pvp gear was good for raiding, and pvpers started complaining that raid gear was good for pvping, and Sony Devs, acted like idiots and listened to players, and separated the stats and made gear and stats specifically for each kind of activity.

What??

PVP gear has NEVER been good for raiding. It was ok for heroic instances at best. I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Unless you are talking about anything below 80 raid instances.

PVP and PVE separation, the way it was done was not good. They should have done all stats, not all. Its silly to think that they separated multi attack into a pvp stat and not separate flurry (flurry=300% MA) since its the determining factor in a melee 1v1 these days.

On another note, PVP critical mitigation has been made useless cause of the fact that everyone wears PVE weapons and ranged items to get their crit chance way above what you can get on PVP gear for crit mit to defend yourself with. Makes no sense.

What??   when did you start playing this game?  After Rise of Kunark?    You missed a good game.

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Old 12-22-2011, 04:03 PM   #15
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or you could make them even stats and have pvp and pve gear on the same par, would be easier considering how many people are gonna be like why did i farm all these tokens an get 2 different factions done and you took the gear away

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Old 12-22-2011, 04:29 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

Lilflier wrote:

Stats for pvp and pve never should have been separated.

The whole point of pvp gear was so that people wouldn't have to raid to compete with raiders in pvp.

But then, raiders started complaining that pvp gear was good for raiding, and pvpers started complaining that raid gear was good for pvping, and Sony Devs, acted like idiots and listened to players, and separated the stats and made gear and stats specifically for each kind of activity.

On another note, PVP critical mitigation has been made useless cause of the fact that everyone wears PVE weapons and ranged items to get their crit chance way above what you can get on PVP gear for crit mit to defend yourself with. Makes no sense.

except that it is crit mit and crit bonus that fight it out to decide if you crit, not your crit chance.

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Old 12-22-2011, 06:43 PM   #17
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I think the best gear should come from killing the hardest content in the game. Not pharming scrubs trying to solo quest or participating in a giant mess of a zerg at WFs.

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Old 12-22-2011, 09:42 PM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

I think the best gear should come from killing the hardest content in the game. Not pharming scrubs trying to solo quest or participating in a giant mess of a zerg at WFs.

I don't understand why the best gear comes from killing a mindless program that does the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

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Old 12-22-2011, 10:17 PM   #19
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For most part the over, over, over, over, and over again part of real raiding is:

WipeWipeWipeWipeWipeWipeWipeRaid called LOL

In PvP all you have to do to get rewards is simply by running into a zerg blowing a few AoEs, die and collect your write tokens. Repeat every ten minutes. Pretending this takes any skill at all is the biggest joke ever. After a few weeks you have the full set of gear and the whole PvP end game becomes pointless.

I second the notion to get rid of PvP gear. Eq2 is a PvE game and always has been. There is no PvP end game at all in EQ2.

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Old 12-22-2011, 10:44 PM   #20
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Novusod wrote:

For most part the over, over, over, over, and over again part of real raiding is:

WipeWipeWipeWipeWipeWipeWipeRaid called LOL

In PvP all you have to do to get rewards is simply by running into a zerg blowing a few AoEs, die and collect your write tokens. Repeat every ten minutes. Pretending this takes any skill at all is the biggest joke ever. After a few weeks you have the full set of gear and the whole PvP end game becomes pointless.

I second the notion to get rid of PvP gear. Eq2 is a PvE game and always has been. There is no PvP end game at all in EQ2.

Let’s say this is the case then, keep doing that get your raid gear that helps make the raids easer and easer.  after you get your complete set of raid gear you can continue to improve you character comparing yourself to the same class with the same gear next to you. This is no doubt how you get better.

Now there are still a few of us that have characters that we just like to PVP with and we log in every night and do this “mindless act” you speak of over and over with the same end result in mind that you have. We want to earn the best gear for the content we are working on. Hence PVP now I would not expect to PVP for a year get a complete set of PVP gear and join your raid one night and be the best in my class, top the parse or whatever.

So why would you think because you raid every night you should have the upper hand on someone that PVPs every night?  

If you don’t think it is fair that someone that puts in the hours PVPing is going to have an advantage “gear wise” over someone that raids every night you should go to a blue server.

I am in no way saying the mechanics of PVP are correct the way they are, I simply saying This is a PVP server and the folks that PVP need to be able to compete with the ones that raid. We should not have to raid or be in a raid guild to be competitive in PVP.

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Old 12-22-2011, 10:50 PM   #21
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Novusod wrote:

For most part the over, over, over, over, and over again part of real raiding is:

WipeWipeWipeWipeWipeWipeWipeRaid called LOL

In PvP all you have to do to get rewards is simply by running into a zerg blowing a few AoEs, die and collect your write tokens. Repeat every ten minutes. Pretending this takes any skill at all is the biggest joke ever. After a few weeks you have the full set of gear and the whole PvP end game becomes pointless.

I second the notion to get rid of PvP gear. Eq2 is a PvE game and always has been. There is no PvP end game at all in EQ2.

you miss the point.

Raiding isn't any harder than pvp zerging.  It's the same thing.  Die, Die, Die again, over and over till you get it right.  And if there isn't a zerg going on, you'll get your raid gear much quicker than pvp gear.  Progressing to the top of the old title system was much harder than raiding.

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Old 12-22-2011, 11:33 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

I think the best gear should come from killing the hardest content in the game. Not pharming scrubs trying to solo quest or participating in a giant mess of a zerg at WFs.

Yea I guess I did, I quoted you after reading all the other raiders posts. I just disagree with the idea that because I don’t “raid” I can’t have the best “PVP” gear. That is all I was trying to say.

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Old 12-23-2011, 01:38 AM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I think the best gear should come from killing the hardest content in the game. Not pharming scrubs trying to solo quest or participating in a giant mess of a zerg at WFs.

Yea I guess I did, I quoted you after reading all the other raiders posts. I just disagree with the idea that because I don’t “raid” I can’t have the best “PVP” gear. That is all I was trying to say.

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Old 12-23-2011, 01:46 AM   #24
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Seleri, why are you paying to play this game when it has 75 things you think need to be changed?

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Old 12-23-2011, 04:02 AM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Lilflier wrote:

Stats for pvp and pve never should have been separated.

The whole point of pvp gear was so that people wouldn't have to raid to compete with raiders in pvp.

But then, raiders started complaining that pvp gear was good for raiding, and pvpers started complaining that raid gear was good for pvping, and Sony Devs, acted like idiots and listened to players, and separated the stats and made gear and stats specifically for each kind of activity.

What??

PVP gear has NEVER been good for raiding. It was ok for heroic instances at best. I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Unless you are talking about anything below 80 raid instances.

PVP and PVE separation, the way it was done was not good. They should have done all stats, not all. Its silly to think that they separated multi attack into a pvp stat and not separate flurry (flurry=300% MA) since its the determining factor in a melee 1v1 these days.

On another note, PVP critical mitigation has been made useless cause of the fact that everyone wears PVE weapons and ranged items to get their crit chance way above what you can get on PVP gear for crit mit to defend yourself with. Makes no sense.

Actually the TSO pvp gear was quite acceptable for raiding. It was near equivalent to the corresponding PVE TSP raid gear.  I found myself always replacing the TSO PVP aquired piece with the corresponding TSO PVE aquired piece as did others but gear wise they were near identical with the pvp pieces slightly being better for pvp and the pve peieces being slightly better for pve.

Blue servers cried foul as the gear could be easily zerged on Nagafen, not so easily on Venekor (we were quite barren by mid spring-summer back then) and thus give pvp servers an unfair advantange towards Raid zone progression as the subsequent PVE piece had not yet aquired through kill/progression.  There was some merit to this arguement back then.

Now however we have RG and Drunder gear and even EoW gear that is very near or better than EM raid quality gear.  How many of us have not replaced our EM forearms and legs with EoW gear?  The TSO gear model was far superior to what we have today. 

Different classes benefit from raid jewelry to different degress.  My paly, inqy, ranger, bruiser can continue to wear raid jewelry in lieu of pvp jewelry to beneft greatly from the ability mods, fluries, and +health whereas my guard will actually die faster solo in much better raid jewelry if I do not equip the pvp jewelry at a significant loss of HP.  We need new acceptable jewelry in the game ASAP - some classes more than others due to how some classes benefit form those blue stats that were not consolidated to a greater degree than others but all equally deserve an update as we have recieved squat pvp updates and lived through hellish pvp neglect for over a year now.

there was no merit to the argument

interoperability & higher gear cost promoted more contested PvP

raid progression being affected is irrelevant & an utter non-issue for a PvP server whose FEATURE is supposed to be PVP

Lilflier wrote:

Seleri, why are you paying to play this game when it has 75 things you think need to be changed?

why are you unable to spell someone's name despite it being clearly visible...?

maybe it has something to do with you holding a shallow/vindictive grudge toward me because i'm aware of critical flaws in EQ2 PvP that could rennovate its progression & holistic desirability by unfathomable proportions

not being spiteful but srs, pls L2reflect. =]

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Old 12-23-2011, 03:25 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Actually the TSO pvp gear was quite acceptable for raiding. It was near equivalent to the corresponding PVE TSP raid gear.  I found myself always replacing the TSO PVP aquired piece with the corresponding TSO PVE aquired piece as did others but gear wise they were near identical with the pvp pieces slightly being better for pvp and the pve peieces being slightly better for pve.

Blue servers cried foul as the gear could be easily zerged on Nagafen, not so easily on Venekor (we were quite barren by mid spring-summer back then) and thus give pvp servers an unfair advantange towards Raid zone progression as the subsequent PVE piece had not yet aquired through kill/progression.  There was some merit to this arguement back then.

Now however we have RG and Drunder gear and even EoW gear that is very near or better than EM raid quality gear.  How many of us have not replaced our EM forearms and legs with EoW gear?  The TSO gear model was far superior to what we have today. 

Different classes benefit from raid jewelry to different degress.  My paly, inqy, ranger, bruiser can continue to wear raid jewelry in lieu of pvp jewelry to beneft greatly from the ability mods, fluries, and +health whereas my guard will actually die faster solo in much better raid jewelry if I do not equip the pvp jewelry at a significant loss of HP.  We need new acceptable jewelry in the game ASAP - some classes more than others due to how some classes benefit form those blue stats that were not consolidated to a greater degree than others but all equally deserve an update as we have recieved squat pvp updates and lived through hellish pvp neglect for over a year now.

there was no merit to the argument

interoperability & higher gear cost promoted more contested PvP

raid progression being affected is irrelevant & an utter non-issue for a PvP server whose FEATURE is supposed to be PVP

The reason that the arguement was valued dear gnome should be quite clear to you.  Zerging a complete set of full PVP/E crit mit by standing in one place and hailing Fatuna over and over while AOEing in less than 2 weeks over trivialized the PVE raid content before it was designed to become trivialized.

Having a complete set of gear with crit mit on it BACK THEN (Not now) would allow people to run over the first few nameds.

We all know the first few nameds were easy and unless the raid force could figure out some of the harder scripts all the crit mit in the world was not going to get them any deeper into progression anyhow but it would have given an edge on the first few kills anyhow as blue servers had to wait out the RNG for their boots, bracers, gloves while PVP servers were able to attain a complete set of crit mit pvp/e gear and work on the harder scripts sooner.

This time around PVP gear takes much longer to get due to the split in emphasis - most of us were full EM geared quite awhile ago and some of you are fully DoV HM geared now.  It took alot longer to get a full set of PVP gear on my guard this xpac than the corresponding raid gear.  Time is too split between the two activities.

Currently we are splitting our community between two pursuits instead of focusing on the common PVP/E theme.

The TSO gear model ruled becuase it allowed people to both PVP and PVE.  The appropriate stats were on both sets to varying degrees.  What we need is the TSO model brought back and married to the current gear model.  As their is EM, HM, and Drunder EM/HM gear Their should be corresponding PVP sets that can be turned in to match the PVE gear.  This way people can mix and match their PVP/E gear and still be able to raid or PVE. 

That Gnome-a-rama of the Bright Orange script is why back in the begining of TSO was why the Fatuna mechanic, writs, and the gear trivialized the entry level raid mobs far to much.

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Old 12-23-2011, 05:31 PM   #27
Lilflier

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[email protected] wrote:

Lilflier wrote:

Seleri, why are you paying to play this game when it has 75 things you think need to be changed?

why are you unable to spell someone's name despite it being clearly visible...?

maybe it has something to do with you holding a shallow/vindictive grudge toward me because i'm aware of critical flaws in EQ2 PvP that could rennovate its progression & holistic desirability by unfathomable proportions

not being spiteful but srs, pls L2reflect. =]

i'm a poor speller, but my question still stands.  With 75 things wrong with the game.  Why are you paying for it?  Or do you rent a rusted out car with flat tires, an oil leaking engine, broken power steering, a cracked winshield, ripped vinyl seats, and 60+ other odd things wrong with it?

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Old 12-23-2011, 07:01 PM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

 

back in the begining of TSO was why the Fatuna mechanic, writs, and the gear trivialized the entry level raid mobs far to much.

Clarification: the TSO pvp revamp went live Sept 23, 2009, which was ~309 days after TSO launch, so by then all of the PVE raid strats were out in public on the various raid strat websites, and many raiders already had alts geared up comfortably.

I can see a point if the TSO pvp revamp was made at the same time as the launch of TSO to directly compete with pve at the beginning, but the pvp revamp happened 10 months later when pve was long settled into the normal piñata SLR farming mode. 

Also, what's the difference between SLR from a scripted pve piñata and pvp zerging, besides plats for raiders? 

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Old 12-24-2011, 12:13 AM   #29
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Neskonlith wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

 

back in the begining of TSO was why the Fatuna mechanic, writs, and the gear trivialized the entry level raid mobs far to much.

Clarification: the TSO pvp revamp went live Sept 23, 2009, which was ~309 days after TSO launch, so by then all of the PVE raid strats were out in public on the various raid strat websites, and many raiders already had alts geared up comfortably.

I can see a point if the TSO pvp revamp was made at the same time as the launch of TSO to directly compete with pve at the beginning, but the pvp revamp happened 10 months later when pve was long settled into the normal piñata SLR farming mode. 

Also, what's the difference between SLR from a scripted pve piñata and pvp zerging, besides plats for raiders? 

Human interaction and fitting in/going with the flow is a lot more important and feels a lot more nicer than you and many people come to believe. Going against flows into another flow and going head on with other humans is like a breath of fresh air to many people. We're human, afterall. Social creatures.

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Old 12-24-2011, 05:00 PM   #30
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Lilflier wrote:

Stats for pvp and pve never should have been separated.

The whole point of pvp gear was so that people wouldn't have to raid to compete with raiders in pvp.

But then, raiders started complaining that pvp gear was good for raiding, and pvpers started complaining that raid gear was good for pvping, and Sony Devs, acted like idiots and listened to players, and separated the stats and made gear and stats specifically for each kind of activity.

What??

PVP gear has NEVER been good for raiding. It was ok for heroic instances at best. I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Unless you are talking about anything below 80 raid instances.

PVP and PVE separation, the way it was done was not good. They should have done all stats, not all. Its silly to think that they separated multi attack into a pvp stat and not separate flurry (flurry=300% MA) since its the determining factor in a melee 1v1 these days.

On another note, PVP critical mitigation has been made useless cause of the fact that everyone wears PVE weapons and ranged items to get their crit chance way above what you can get on PVP gear for crit mit to defend yourself with. Makes no sense.

Actually the TSO pvp gear was quite acceptable for raiding. It was near equivalent to the corresponding PVE TSP raid gear.  I found myself always replacing the TSO PVP aquired piece with the corresponding TSO PVE aquired piece as did others but gear wise they were near identical with the pvp pieces slightly being better for pvp and the pve peieces being slightly better for pve.

Blue servers cried foul as the gear could be easily zerged on Nagafen, not so easily on Venekor (we were quite barren by mid spring-summer back then) and thus give pvp servers an unfair advantange towards Raid zone progression as the subsequent PVE piece had not yet aquired through kill/progression.  There was some merit to this arguement back then.

Now however we have RG and Drunder gear and even EoW gear that is very near or better than EM raid quality gear.  How many of us have not replaced our EM forearms and legs with EoW gear?  The TSO gear model was far superior to what we have today. 

Different classes benefit from raid jewelry to different degress.  My paly, inqy, ranger, bruiser can continue to wear raid jewelry in lieu of pvp jewelry to beneft greatly from the ability mods, fluries, and +health whereas my guard will actually die faster solo in much better raid jewelry if I do not equip the pvp jewelry at a significant loss of HP.  We need new acceptable jewelry in the game ASAP - some classes more than others due to how some classes benefit form those blue stats that were not consolidated to a greater degree than others but all equally deserve an update as we have recieved squat pvp updates and lived through hellish pvp neglect for over a year now.

This.............

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