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Old 06-28-2011, 11:23 AM   #1
Karagon
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It wasn't a problem before GU60, but now in drunder instances you need a lot of crit.

Almost all fighter ranged loot in game have less crit than it's healer/scout/mage analogs.

Here are some examples:

Drop from the

Prime-Cornicen Munderrad (Temple of Rallos Zek: Foundations of Stone (Hard mode)) >
Prime-Cornicen Munderrad (Temple of Rallos Zek: Foundations of Stone (Easy mode))

Please add lacking crit to fighter items.
Thanks.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:01 PM   #2
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I'd rather they gut crit and remove crit mit.

They added it because of crit inflation like that. There's no reason you should ever need 100% critical strike chance, much less 2-3 times that.

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Old 06-28-2011, 12:06 PM   #3
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Yeah of course... they focus itemization on critbonus and i do not need 100% crit chance... How do you imagine that? Too late to remove all they did..

And it's not about the 100% critchance. It's about the difference in items that should be similar.

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Old 06-28-2011, 12:25 PM   #4
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Maybe "should" to you.

I personally have no problem with it.

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Old 06-28-2011, 02:37 PM   #5
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The problem here is one that i have seen in other places and it has bin changed when it came up.  each item on a mob's loot table has the same value of stats (to the div's) that includes the Main stat, CB and Pot, and Crit Mit, and Crit chance, weapon rating would fit here as well.  After those there are stat groups like casting/reuse speed and MA/DPS and the like.  The first group of stats NEEDS to be the same from item to item; the 2nd group of stats will vary but should be relatively equal.

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Old 06-30-2011, 07:38 AM   #6
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Give us our crit!!!

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Old 07-02-2011, 12:49 PM   #7
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Up!

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Old 07-02-2011, 01:29 PM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

Maybe "should" to you.

I personally have no problem with it.

You personality have no sense of game balance either, your arguement about crit inflation is totally off-topic as well.

The fighter items have more flurry and weapon skills as compared to the scout bow, if fighters get more crit than scouts should get more flurry and the same weaponskills as fighters.  The scout and mage items would also need to be upgraded in some way.

Either that or take a less popular route and trade the flurry and weapon skills on the fighter weapons for the increase in crit, but I am sure that would upset a lot of people who do not need the extra crit chance.

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Old 07-02-2011, 03:38 PM   #9
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Scouts already have a lot on their items. Weaporn skills are almost useless already as soon as you get 200+ from some items and your hitrate is almost maxed out.

ALso scouts have a lot of multiatack on their set items. Mages have 100% reuse speed from all their items, etc.

And it's ok.

But critical chance is like critical mitigation in this expansion. To kill harder mobs, to hold agro on them, to damage them etc. you need critchance and critmiti.

And all classes should have same amounts of them when they put on all the gear they can get in same instances to progress further.

If they don't have - a situation when you come to new instance with top gear from previous one and tanks can't hold agro due to their autoatack and abilities just do not crit is really sad.

When you progress to challenge x4 zones in drunder - you will understand what i mean. I hope the developers are already understood that.

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:12 AM   #10
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Karagooon wrote:

Scouts already have a lot on their items. Weaporn skills are almost useless already as soon as you get 200+ from some items and your hitrate is almost maxed out.

ALso scouts have a lot of multiatack on their set items. Mages have 100% reuse speed from all their items, etc.

And it's ok.

But critical chance is like critical mitigation in this expansion. To kill harder mobs, to hold agro on them, to damage them etc. you need critchance and critmiti.

And all classes should have same amounts of them when they put on all the gear they can get in same instances to progress further.

If they don't have - a situation when you come to new instance with top gear from previous one and tanks can't hold agro due to their autoatack and abilities just do not crit is really sad.

When you progress to challenge x4 zones in drunder - you will understand what i mean. I hope the developers are already understood that.

Just saying.  The crit should be the same on all the items but they should have the same amount of other stats as well.  More weaponskills can always be usefull and flurry is very good.

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Old 07-03-2011, 11:52 AM   #11
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Lethe5683 wrote:

Karagooon wrote:

Scouts already have a lot on their items. Weaporn skills are almost useless already as soon as you get 200+ from some items and your hitrate is almost maxed out.

ALso scouts have a lot of multiatack on their set items. Mages have 100% reuse speed from all their items, etc.

And it's ok.

But critical chance is like critical mitigation in this expansion. To kill harder mobs, to hold agro on them, to damage them etc. you need critchance and critmiti.

And all classes should have same amounts of them when they put on all the gear they can get in same instances to progress further.

If they don't have - a situation when you come to new instance with top gear from previous one and tanks can't hold agro due to their autoatack and abilities just do not crit is really sad.

When you progress to challenge x4 zones in drunder - you will understand what i mean. I hope the developers are already understood that.

Just saying.  The crit should be the same on all the items but they should have the same amount of other stats as well.  More weaponskills can always be usefull and flurry is very good.

Your argument has an incredibly fatal flaw. A stat for one class doesn't mean another class gets the same benefit from the same stat. A scout is going to get a lot more from that flurry than your mt. To be of equal benefit to the class in increasing their capability isn't always about the numbers being equal.

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Old 07-03-2011, 07:50 PM   #12
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slippery wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

Karagooon wrote:

Scouts already have a lot on their items. Weaporn skills are almost useless already as soon as you get 200+ from some items and your hitrate is almost maxed out.

ALso scouts have a lot of multiatack on their set items. Mages have 100% reuse speed from all their items, etc.

And it's ok.

But critical chance is like critical mitigation in this expansion. To kill harder mobs, to hold agro on them, to damage them etc. you need critchance and critmiti.

And all classes should have same amounts of them when they put on all the gear they can get in same instances to progress further.

If they don't have - a situation when you come to new instance with top gear from previous one and tanks can't hold agro due to their autoatack and abilities just do not crit is really sad.

When you progress to challenge x4 zones in drunder - you will understand what i mean. I hope the developers are already understood that.

Just saying.  The crit should be the same on all the items but they should have the same amount of other stats as well.  More weaponskills can always be usefull and flurry is very good.

Your argument has an incredibly fatal flaw. A stat for one class doesn't mean another class gets the same benefit from the same stat. A scout is going to get a lot more from that flurry than your mt. To be of equal benefit to the class in increasing their capability isn't always about the numbers being equal.

And a fighter is going to get far more benefit from weaponskills than will a scout.  That is no excuse for the scout bow being worse in every way (if the fighter weapons crit chance is fixed).  Stop being a hypocrite and asking for the fighter weapons to be just plain better when you're currently complaining that the other classes weapons are better.

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Old 07-04-2011, 02:10 AM   #13
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And this is what happens when they balance all gear down to the decimal point. Not even a tiny variation will go un-noticed. None of this would be a problem if items were relatively unique. There is no choice anymore - and so now we all sit around taking screen shots of items we can't even remember the name of - to highlight how it's not exactly the same so its not fair. 

Itemization is such a sad state of affairs right now. Please someone pay attention to itemization and make some interesting items!

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Old 07-04-2011, 07:52 AM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

And this is what happens when they balance all gear down to the decimal point. Not even a tiny variation will go un-noticed. None of this would be a problem if items were relatively unique. There is no choice anymore - and so now we all sit around taking screen shots of items we can't even remember the name of - to highlight how it's not exactly the same so its not fair. 

Itemization is such a sad state of affairs right now. Please someone pay attention to itemization and make some interesting items!

With the generic item stats where thing are just plain better or just plain worse there is no other way to compare items.

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Old 07-04-2011, 08:53 AM   #15
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You simply still don't understand that critical chance in this expansion is like critical mitigation, and all classes equally need this stat for further progression. Each class equally depends on it for not to die and for working in raid properly. If you don't have enough critical mitigation/critical chance - you can't kill harder mobs. Even more - in this expansion devs do not give us choice what to wear - there is always one item that is better than the others (not like was before - you had a lot of similar items with defferent stats and you could chose what you need... Now all items have totally identical stats - just different quantity of them).

If there was choice of items with for example 60 crit and 0 flurry and 45 crit and 5 flurry - i would be ok with that. But there is only one item!!! (i mean the best i can get) with crit - and it give me less crit than similar items to the other classes. And when i get all the gear from the mobs we already killing - i get less crit chance than the others. And in new instance i have problems because 10% of my atacks do not crit and all other classes exept tanks have 100% crit. To get the lack of crit i have to put on a lot of crit adornments, to wear items from previous expansion, etc.... This shouldn't be so, items should be fixed...

All other stats can or have to be different and i have no complains about the fact that fighter gear is very bad and have much less stats on it than rogue, etc... but CRITICAL CHANCE and CRITICAL MITIGATION should be the same for all.

And really they already are the same!!! for all x4 raid items. Except fighter ranged slot one's!!!

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Old 07-04-2011, 01:03 PM   #16
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Lethe5683 wrote:

slippery wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

Karagooon wrote:

Scouts already have a lot on their items. Weaporn skills are almost useless already as soon as you get 200+ from some items and your hitrate is almost maxed out.

ALso scouts have a lot of multiatack on their set items. Mages have 100% reuse speed from all their items, etc.

And it's ok.

But critical chance is like critical mitigation in this expansion. To kill harder mobs, to hold agro on them, to damage them etc. you need critchance and critmiti.

And all classes should have same amounts of them when they put on all the gear they can get in same instances to progress further.

If they don't have - a situation when you come to new instance with top gear from previous one and tanks can't hold agro due to their autoatack and abilities just do not crit is really sad.

When you progress to challenge x4 zones in drunder - you will understand what i mean. I hope the developers are already understood that.

Just saying.  The crit should be the same on all the items but they should have the same amount of other stats as well.  More weaponskills can always be usefull and flurry is very good.

Your argument has an incredibly fatal flaw. A stat for one class doesn't mean another class gets the same benefit from the same stat. A scout is going to get a lot more from that flurry than your mt. To be of equal benefit to the class in increasing their capability isn't always about the numbers being equal.

And a fighter is going to get far more benefit from weaponskills than will a scout.  That is no excuse for the scout bow being worse in every way (if the fighter weapons crit chance is fixed).  Stop being a hypocrite and asking for the fighter weapons to be just plain better when you're currently complaining that the other classes weapons are better.

Weaponskills don't do jack for anyone. Solo I have 630, without any adorns or group buffs.

I know simple math is really really hard for you. But who is going to get more damage from flurry, the fighter with 1h and shield with 70% hit rate tanking the mob, or the scout dual wielding with 100% hit rate behind the mob?

Oh, you mean, the scout is going to get 3 times as much? That is why the fighter weapon has double the flurry? Man, who would have guessed. Equal numbers do not mean equal benefit. That was the whole reason for limiting items by class, because all classes are not equal and do not gain equally from stats. They have to have different quantities of things for them to gain equal benefit.

Mobs are designed around people having a certain amount of crit chance. When one of the crit chance items is broken and doesn't give what it should, it breaks that progression. It means fighters can't tank mobs further ahead in progression (Hard Drunder) because they don't have enough crit to do so, which means they can't hold agro because there abilities are so hampered.

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Old 07-04-2011, 01:28 PM   #17
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If the scout ranged weapon is lacking a stat group that the other class ranged have then that needs to be looked at. But the point of this thread is to show that the fighter ranged weapon is lacking Crit chance. If a Div come in and says that these items are "balanced as intended..." then that is a nether story.

Edit, and BTW the brawler ranged from the same mob has the same Crit Chance as the fighgter and doesnt have the Frury....

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Old 07-04-2011, 03:09 PM   #18
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All easy mode primary, secondary and ranged items for all classes have the exact same amount of crit, 47.4. Except the the ranged items for Fighters. It's without a doubt unintended. There are even heroic ranged fighter items with more crit chance. But with the giant mess itemisation is this expansion, they probably have more important issues to fix and don't have 2 minutes to change two numbers somewhere in a file.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:56 AM   #19
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slippery wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

slippery wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

Karagooon wrote:

Scouts already have a lot on their items. Weaporn skills are almost useless already as soon as you get 200+ from some items and your hitrate is almost maxed out.

ALso scouts have a lot of multiatack on their set items. Mages have 100% reuse speed from all their items, etc.

And it's ok.

But critical chance is like critical mitigation in this expansion. To kill harder mobs, to hold agro on them, to damage them etc. you need critchance and critmiti.

And all classes should have same amounts of them when they put on all the gear they can get in same instances to progress further.

If they don't have - a situation when you come to new instance with top gear from previous one and tanks can't hold agro due to their autoatack and abilities just do not crit is really sad.

When you progress to challenge x4 zones in drunder - you will understand what i mean. I hope the developers are already understood that.

Just saying.  The crit should be the same on all the items but they should have the same amount of other stats as well.  More weaponskills can always be usefull and flurry is very good.

Your argument has an incredibly fatal flaw. A stat for one class doesn't mean another class gets the same benefit from the same stat. A scout is going to get a lot more from that flurry than your mt. To be of equal benefit to the class in increasing their capability isn't always about the numbers being equal.

And a fighter is going to get far more benefit from weaponskills than will a scout.  That is no excuse for the scout bow being worse in every way (if the fighter weapons crit chance is fixed).  Stop being a hypocrite and asking for the fighter weapons to be just plain better when you're currently complaining that the other classes weapons are better.

Weaponskills don't do jack for anyone. Solo I have 630, without any adorns or group buffs.

They do help somewhat, besides if they are so unimportant to you than why are you making such a big deal about adding them to the scout bow as well.

I know simple math is really really hard for you. But who is going to get more damage from flurry, the fighter with 1h and shield with 70% hit rate tanking the mob, or the scout dual wielding with 100% hit rate behind the mob?

Oh, you mean, the scout is going to get 3 times as much? That is why the fighter weapon has double the flurry? Man, who would have guessed. Equal numbers do not mean equal benefit. That was the whole reason for limiting items by class, because all classes are not equal and do not gain equally from stats. They have to have different quantities of things for them to gain equal benefit.

If they used your logic then they would have add aditional offensive stats to support classes (other than dirges) because they do not gain as much DPS from them as do the pure DPS classes.  The disparity between the scouts and the fighters DPS is intentional, fighters aren't supposed to being doing good DPS while tanking.  I know common sense is hard for you but try to understand.

Mobs are designed around people having a certain amount of crit chance. When one of the crit chance items is broken and doesn't give what it should, it breaks that progression. It means fighters can't tank mobs further ahead in progression (Hard Drunder) because they don't have enough crit to do so, which means they can't hold agro because there abilities are so hampered.

I never said it shouldn't have as much crit as the others.

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Old 07-05-2011, 03:37 AM   #20
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You do realize fighters hold agro through dps right, and that is why Fighters dps has to scale appropriately? I have all of 2 taunts. The vast majority of my agro comes from auto attack. I've never even once commented about adding anything to the scout bow, please find where I have.
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:54 AM   #21
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Locking this thread down as the discussion has run it's course.

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