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Old 02-17-2010, 03:54 PM   #1
Rothgar

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I wanted to create a thread for the 3D Vision support that EQII now enjoys.  If you haven't seen this yet, it's truly amazing.  Brian Belfield on the engineering team worked with NVIDIA and came up with a great implementation of this technology for EQII.   I would encourage all of you to check this out anywhere that you can find a demo display.

Unfortunately this type of thing just doesn't show too well in a video, you have to try it for yourself.

I'm just interested to know, does anyone have the 3D Vision setup yet and have you tried this out?  I'd love to hear your feedback.  If you decide to run out to your local store and pick one up, let us know what you think!  Keep in mind that this feature also requires a 120hz monitor.

Last year NVIDIA was showing it off at Fan Faire, but we hadn't done the integration for EQII yet.  Hopefully we'll have some demos of this technology setup at Fan Faire this year. 

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Old 02-17-2010, 05:14 PM   #2
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I have the Alienware OptX monitor and the NVidia 3D kit on order with Dell today.  Right now I play on my Dell 2408WFP in 1920x1200... so I'm losing an inch of screen to go down to 23" and switching to the 1080res instead.  Shouldn't be too big of a deal to get the benefits of the 3D. 

I have a NV GTS 250 now but I'm going to upgrade this as well as I've read running the 3D Vision on lower cards suffer fps issues.

I'll let you know how it goes when I get my gear.  Excited to try it out.

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Old 02-19-2010, 01:34 PM   #3
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I went to the 3d link in the patch notes and ended up with nvidia telling me two different things about requirements. 

Their list of cards says my GeForce 8800 GTS 512 is good to go.  If I run their "are you ready" program, it tells me my card does not pass and I need  "GeForce 8800 GTX or above, GeForce 9800 GT or above, or GeForce GTS 250 or better. "

I couldn't find a place to send feedback on the issue either.  They have a place for driver feedback but not 3d requirements.

I love this idea, but I have some upgrading to do first.  How much upgrading is still TBD.

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Old 02-19-2010, 07:19 PM   #4
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I have 3D vision and one of the original 120hz Samsung 22" 1650 x 1080 monitors. I must say that I was surprised when I returned to EQ2 after a six-months long hiatus and found a whole section in the options just for 3D vision. Last time I checked, months ago, support was limited and nobody appeared to be working on it. When I fired it up today, I expected the implementation to be about as poor as it is in most other games.

I was wrong.

To my surprise, EQ2 is about the best 3D vision title I've tried so far, topping even Unreal 3. Almost everything "just works." Once you turn it on in the settings, your mouse cursor, names of NPC's and players, even dialog boxes for quests all hover at the same depth as the NPC / player in question. No out-of-focus boxes or names floating around right in your face. The hotbars and other UI features typically off to the sides of the screen remain at or near screen-depth.

That said, it wasn't perfect. The biggest problem I found which the EQ guys might be able to fix is the tendency of distant effects such as waterfall foam and glowing magical flames to display to only one eye or the other, or to display out of focus with the rest of the world. Luckily the issue goes away when you get close enough to any of these. The very fact that those effects displayed correctly in any case was surprising to me, and a cut above the other games I've tried. The second problem was really the game breaker for me- though it has nothing to do with the game: everything is just to dark with 3D vision enable. The 3D vision shutter glasses simply cut out too much of the light from the screen. Just think about it; the shutters are basically closed half the time.

I could still see clearly enough to read text and etc, but it was too great a strain on my eyes for more than a few minutes at a time. The devs did a fantastic job with this, and if you can get over the eye strain it's quite a thing to see.

Note: I had the misfortune of trying this out in rather dark zones. I'll check out someplace bright like Commonlands in a little while.

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Old 02-19-2010, 07:51 PM   #5
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I tried it before the expansion, it was pretty cool except flames and I believe shadows had no z-depth information.  What was changed before the expansion vs after?

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Old 02-23-2010, 11:45 AM   #6
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I enabled the red/green version of nvidia "3D Vision" in my computer.  It works in the driver wizard and with their demos, but when  I enable it in game, it doesn't appear do do anything.

Is red/green alaglyph stereo supported in EQ2 or just shutter glasses stereo?

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Old 02-23-2010, 06:14 PM   #7
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teraflop122 wrote:

I have 3D vision and one of the original 120hz Samsung 22" 1650 x 1080 monitors. I must say that I was surprised when I returned to EQ2 after a six-months long hiatus and found a whole section in the options just for 3D vision. Last time I checked, months ago, support was limited and nobody appeared to be working on it. When I fired it up today, I expected the implementation to be about as poor as it is in most other games.

I was wrong.

To my surprise, EQ2 is about the best 3D vision title I've tried so far, topping even Unreal 3. Almost everything "just works." Once you turn it on in the settings, your mouse cursor, names of NPC's and players, even dialog boxes for quests all hover at the same depth as the NPC / player in question. No out-of-focus boxes or names floating around right in your face. The hotbars and other UI features typically off to the sides of the screen remain at or near screen-depth.

That said, it wasn't perfect. The biggest problem I found which the EQ guys might be able to fix is the tendency of distant effects such as waterfall foam and glowing magical flames to display to only one eye or the other, or to display out of focus with the rest of the world. Luckily the issue goes away when you get close enough to any of these. The very fact that those effects displayed correctly in any case was surprising to me, and a cut above the other games I've tried. The second problem was really the game breaker for me- though it has nothing to do with the game: everything is just to dark with 3D vision enable. The 3D vision shutter glasses simply cut out too much of the light from the screen. Just think about it; the shutters are basically closed half the time.

I could still see clearly enough to read text and etc, but it was too great a strain on my eyes for more than a few minutes at a time. The devs did a fantastic job with this, and if you can get over the eye strain it's quite a thing to see.

Note: I had the misfortune of trying this out in rather dark zones. I'll check out someplace bright like Commonlands in a little while.

Thanks for your comments.  Brian did a great job with the implementation and we spent quite a bit of time making the UI elements and cursor work at object depth so I was very pleased to hear that this work didn't go unnoticed. 

Prior to these changes, it was very jarring to click on an NPC and have the pop-up window or dialog nodes come in at a different depth.  It would take your eyes a split-second to adjust.

As far as the darkness from the shutter glasses, perhaps adjusting the overall gamma to be brighter will help.  This probably isn't the optimal solution but might work for now.

I suspect the particle effect issues have something to do with the different LoD's.  We also spent some time fixing these to work properly as you noticed when you were closer to them.

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Old 02-23-2010, 06:17 PM   #8
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TsarRasputin wrote:

I tried it before the expansion, it was pretty cool except flames and I believe shadows had no z-depth information.  What was changed before the expansion vs after?

Prior to the expansion we had no specific support for 3D Vision.  What you saw was the NVIDIA driver doing most of the work between our software and the monitor.  This worked pretty well, but had lots of issues as teraflop mentioned above.

We resolved the majority of these issues when we introduced native support for 3D Vision.

FYI - This is not specifically an expansion feature.  Even though it was released in conjunction with the expansion, 3D Vision is available for any EQII subscriber.

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Old 02-24-2010, 06:02 AM   #9
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will this work also with ATI when they add 3D support with next months catalyst?

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Old 02-24-2010, 07:20 AM   #10
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This is one feature that really caught my eyes when I saw it in the patch notes. I really wish that I could try it out as 3D technology is starting to get fairly decent, but I recently purchaced my new laptop that I expect to be using for the next 3ish years so its probly safe to say I wont get the oppertunity to check it out any time soon unless it turns out that you all will be supporting ATIs version of it and my monitor supports it. I would buy the glasses for it in a heartbeat if the previously mentioned 2 conditions are met
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:46 PM   #11
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I just bought the Acer GD245HQ 1080p monitor and the nVidia kit a couple of days ago.  It really does breathe a whole new life into EQ2s graphics (can't wait to see this with Shader 3.0).  One comment I have though is that the stained glass you find all over the Sundered Frontier and similar adornments (e.g. the giant blue gems hanging on the walls of the Antonica Guild Hall also) don't render correctly causing a horrible eye-straining effect.  One eye sees the full detail of the item, the other eye sees just a block of solid colour.

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Old 03-01-2010, 09:35 PM   #12
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hi all,

I purchased a 3D Nvidia kit just before SF release and was very disapointed with the poor 3D support in EQ compared to recent games like avatar for example. I was very happy when i first logged to SF to discover that it had been worked out and that the result was very good. I occasionnaly play with the glasses on and it's real fun when soloing.

There are a few things though that are not beareable on longer game sessions :

1 - there are still a lot of ghost effects whatever the setting are (you can play with the 2 depth cursors to correctly focus on your caracter but as soon as you zoom in or out, the driver is not calculating the images correctly and it's not confortable anymore)

2 - I think that the advanced light and shadow processing are off by default (probably not supported correctly). I understand the choice but would be very interested in knowing if it will happen in a near future or if it not feasible at all.

3 - transparency is not displyed correctly at all and is very disturbing for the eye (bottles, transparent glasses, ...). It's just out of focus and you get a headacke very fast.

4 - some glowing objects are not calculated well, not the most puzzling thing but let's be exhaustive.

I'm sure you dev already know those limits to the implementation of 3D and if you can give us feedback on the possibility to improve it i think a lot of us will be very happy. 3D is a very very great feature and bring a lot to the user experience. I really think that very few is missing to make it perfect.

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Old 03-06-2010, 08:38 PM   #13
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You just won a resubscriber SMILEY

Recently replaced my old 720p DLP with a Mitsubishi 1080p set. Since it was 3d-ready, I got the nvidia glasses. Very happy to see you guys supporting new tech like this, it's amazing stuff. Kicking my 8800gtx's butt jumping to 1080p /and/ doubling for stereo.

After seeing some implementations like Torchlight, where item tags sat at monitor glass depth rather than item depth, I was pretty worried about EQ2. But name tags are perfect! I only spent a few minutes just checking it out, I still need to tweak the graphics for the new monitor and get to playing.

MagicMallorn - if you're using an LCD monitor, some ghosting is inherent in that technology. Need DLP to be totally ghost-free. As for focusing on your character, convergence is set where you set it. If you zoom out, it's going to throw off your convergence setting. Nothing you can do about it, really, since it's the nature of convergence.

As amazing as Tomb Raider:Underworld is in 3d, converging on Lara (I keep depth at 65% and converge on Lara so she's converged into one image without the glasses on) at default camera distance is incredible until the camera zooms in when you back up against a wall or something. If it really bugs you, dial down the depth setting in the nvidia driver to 10-15%. Less 3d effect, but that also means less wonkiness from zooming away from the set convergence sweet spot.

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Old 03-09-2010, 07:02 PM   #14
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I was wondering if the 120 hz was an absolute requirement. Unfortunately my TV only supports 60hz. 8( Wish I knew about this beforehand. I can view 3D images which work just fine, but I have enabled 3D vision in both my Nvidia control panel and EQ2 settings and I do not even see the red/cyan colors on the screen in EQ2. Nothing changes.

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Old 03-10-2010, 02:38 AM   #15
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Wanted to add: I'm not using the nvidia glasses. I am using some cheap red/cyan 3d glasses. I'm also running a 9800 GTX and Windows 7 64 bit.

And a 2nd edit: just figured out my problem, Full Screen is required SMILEY Going to run around a bit and see how well it goes

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Old 03-15-2010, 04:52 PM   #16
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Rujinda wrote:

I was wondering if the 120 hz was an absolute requirement. Unfortunately my TV only supports 60hz. 8( Wish I knew about this beforehand. I can view 3D images which work just fine, but I have enabled 3D vision in both my Nvidia control panel and EQ2 settings and I do not even see the red/cyan colors on the screen in EQ2. Nothing changes.

absolute. the 120hz is required cause the freg is cut in half, 60hz for each eye by the shutter glasses.

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Old 03-16-2010, 09:46 AM   #17
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Rujinda wrote:

I was wondering if the 120 hz was an absolute requirement.

3D vision can run at lower frequencies as that's part of the customisation in the driver to select the most comfortable refresh rate for you but what is an absolute requirement is a monitor that supports a dual-DVI input and frame-switches between the 2 inputs (and all the monitors supporting this are 120Hz anyway) or a DLP screen/projector.  At 60Hz what you'd likely see would be a horrible flickering mess.

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Old 03-30-2010, 10:56 AM   #18
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Just wanna thank PNY for my 3d Vision / Monitor at last years Fanfair. I was so suprised I acually won, it is truely a great system, I personally love it...

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Old 05-10-2010, 08:01 PM   #19
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i have all the updates for both my gtx 260 graphics card and the 3d vision, but the only thing that is in 3d on eq2 is the cursor. All other games work fine in 3d, why is that?

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Old 05-11-2010, 10:20 AM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

i have all the updates for both my gtx 260 graphics card and the 3d vision, but the only thing that is in 3d on eq2 is the cursor. All other games work fine in 3d, why is that?

when it comes to these gimmicky features you can't really rely on SOE to continue supporting them...eg. SLI ...so it may or may not return... what you can do is turn on the cards own auto-3d feature... it wont be as good as native support but it's something... 

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Old 05-23-2010, 10:13 AM   #21
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I actually used a pair of active shutter glasses with EQ1 I recall around the Kunark expansion. It was cool, but the tech was a little rough. I hope these newer glasses work better then those did, I started to feel a little motion sick and would get a headache after prolonged use. But I have to agree with woolf2k, I have come and gone a few times from EQ2 because of issues like SLI, for a while the 8800GTX cards had a nasty bug and problems with some operating systems. I pop back in see what they fixed or if there is a new problem. On my old system I had 2x 295GTX run Quad SLI on a 3Ghz Intel Quad core, 790i board and it will run slower then taking off SLI which just is not right.

My new build, switched to an AMD/ATI combo using a 6 Core on an 890FX board with a 5870 card using Eyefinity. I dig the Eyefinity scaling across 3 monitors, great for racing games using a wheel. But when I run EQ2 with it I get a crash every 5 minutes or less. I've read from other people that have the same problem, this is very disappointing since Eyefinity has been out long enough and now even Nvidia is putting together a display grouping system. The question is will EQ2 change with the times as much of the competition does, or force dedicated users to turn things down or off to play? As someone that enjoys building my own systems I find nothing more frustrating then finding the games I enjoy do not make the most of hardware potential.

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Old 05-26-2010, 03:21 AM   #22
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Rothgar wrote:

I wanted to create a thread for the 3D Vision support that EQII now enjoys.  If you haven't seen this yet, it's truly amazing.  Brian Belfield on the engineering team worked with NVIDIA and came up with a great implementation of this technology for EQII.   I would encourage all of you to check this out anywhere that you can find a demo display.

Unfortunately this type of thing just doesn't show too well in a video, you have to try it for yourself.

I'm just interested to know, does anyone have the 3D Vision setup yet and have you tried this out?  I'd love to hear your feedback.  If you decide to run out to your local store and pick one up, let us know what you think!  Keep in mind that this feature also requires a 120hz monitor.

Last year NVIDIA was showing it off at Fan Faire, but we hadn't done the integration for EQII yet.  Hopefully we'll have some demos of this technology setup at Fan Faire this year. 

Just got my 3d vision glasses, got my alien ware 120hz monitor 2 days ago.  Will be booting up into Vista 64 when I get home to set it up.  After a late night getting 23 server discoveries from Halas I might have to skip my texas holdem poker game tonight to play geek boy and give myself a rush of EQ2 in 

3D!!!!

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Old 05-27-2010, 03:12 AM   #23
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After 6 hours of messing around I finally got my set up working.  Had to use an older version of the 3dVision drivers and graphics drivers.  FullCD 1.18 for 3D Vision.

Demo and slide show looked amazing.

Shader 3.0 still screwed up in EQ2

3D in EQ2 right now....seems to be limited to the cursor.  Nothing else seemed to work.  I'm guessing the latest GU broke it.

GTA4 in 3D ... pretty sweet...rather be looking at my ranger riding around in 3D tho.

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Old 05-28-2010, 02:15 AM   #24
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All fixed... not sure what fixed it though.  my only complaint is the quality of text bubbles at world depth.  Besides that ...pretty cool.

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Old 06-08-2010, 07:11 AM   #25
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If you have the stereoscopic vision enabled on your main desktop settings then EQ2 will sometimes (and seemingly randomly) turn on stereoscopic 3d when you are changing video modes from windowed to full screen mode.   When this happens you are pretty much stuck.  

When you try and disable the stereoscopic 3D again it will do so but still leave behind graphical artifacts such as an very slightly offset "shadow" image that messes up textures on the traditional 2D rendering.  This will persist until you completely exit the game and restart it without 3D vision enabled.

 Overall its a nice effect but it is no where near as smooth as it is for World of Warcraft or a few other titles.  I would suggest more thorogh testing of the sterescopic portion of the renderer as part of any significant client patch.

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Old 06-15-2010, 02:08 AM   #26
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I just picked up a Samsung 46" 3D LED TV (8000 series).  It uses HDMI 1.4 "High-speed" cables and has an (interpolated) refresh rate of up to 240hz.  Fantastic 3D performance with the 3D Blue-Ray player that came with it.

But the nVidia 3D setup wizard won't detect it as a "3D ready" display.  It forces the system into anagraphic mode every time, forcing me to use the Nvidia infrared emitter like a big dongle.

BUT THAT'S OKAY!!!  Once I set up the drivers, I just put the emitter under a box on the shelf (so it doesn't interfere with the remote or the Samsung glasses) and away I go.  I do have to manually turn on the "Side-by-side" 3D mode and swap left and right images from the TV's menu, but its really working.  And it's gorgeous.

**editing to point out a few problems** 

1. Transparent objects (like bottles floating in Serpent's Sewer) render at screen depth. 

2. Flames, steam, and other particle effects where your camera can't see the base (origin?) also render on the surface.  Some of the torches on the stairs going down to the next sewer level have the flames set in a little brazier... if you position your camera to look down into the brazier, the flames pop to their proper depth.

3.  Also related to camera position I think, but combat effects and stealthed characters sometimes pop to the surface.  If I spin the camera around, they usually return to the proper depth. I don't think I've yet seen that in an outdoor area.

4.  If the center of a mob isn't visible to both eyes, its name will sometimes strobe left and right.  When the mob finally comes into view, the name will be stuck at screen depth.

5.  Water is borked.  You have to turn off complex shaders (set complex shader distance to -1) to avoid migraines. SMILEY

None of these are game breakers.  It looks fantastic, and has really breathed new life into the game for me.

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Old 06-23-2010, 04:10 PM   #27
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Ah, one more thing.  On my 3d "short" wish-list would be a hotkey or options checkbox to permanently reverse the timing of the left/right images, and a hotkey to take .jps stereo screenshots.  The Nvidia software seems to have alt-F1 hard coded as a screenshot combo (at least I can't find an option to change that one).

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Old 08-19-2010, 08:06 AM   #28
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Well I took the plunge and now have the following setup on my Alienware rig.

AlienWare 23"HD 120Hz screen, Nvidia 3D Vision Glasses Kit

The graphics card is the Nvidia GForce 295 which came with the rig.

Although it was a little bit hit and miss getting it to work I soon managed to experience EQ2 in 3D. My first impression was "oh my gosh!". I do wear glasses so I have been tweeking and trying different setting most of the afternoon now. I have also run up a demo of the Avatar game as a comparison. Nvidia ranks the 3D environment for EQ2 as "good" and Avatar as "Excellent" which surprised me but after checking both I would agree. Athough EQ2 is truly a stunning experience in 3D, I have noticed a few ghost type images showing up in certain places. Seems to be NPCs that are bright in a high contrast background. It is hard to see but is noticable. I have been plaing with the settings under Options as well as changing the settings as recommended by Nvidia. So far there seems to be a lot of scope playing with a combination of these to get a better outcome. It is day one so we'll see.

The demo of Avatar is another notch up in the experience. I have not played with much in the game as I just wanted to see what something else would be like and it certainly excited me even more than th initial EQ2 "ooo ahhhh wow!". I really felt I was in that world.

My verdict is EQ2 with Nvida 3D is fantastic and well worth the experience. Not only can you enjoy EQ2 in a new and different way but there are plenty of other games you'll quickly begin to immerse yourself into as well.

Have fun!

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Old 08-19-2010, 08:30 AM   #29
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is there a link or some info as to what is required to run in 3d. Do i need a new graphics card? or is it simply just the monitor and 3d glasses kit?

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Old 08-19-2010, 06:24 PM   #30
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Mono wrote:

is there a link or some info as to what is required to run in 3d. Do i need a new graphics card? or is it simply just the monitor and 3d glasses kit?

3d vision is a pretty big invenstment but for 3d vision works very well for eq2. You need a 120mz monitor (recommended) You need a newer Nvidia graphics card ( I beleive 200 series or higher)You need the glasses/Kit and additional glasses for whomever else wants to view it.

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