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Old 12-11-2008, 01:59 PM   #31
Lorzus

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I typically use the LFG window while leading groups.

That being said: as a group leader (and Tank) the window is much to large to have up all the time while looking for a replacement. The chat channels are much easier to scan for lfger's than having that window blocking out most of my screen. That is my major gripe with the window.

There are also a few other things, most people can see a tank/healer/dps class and recognize it as that do you really need to specify your role? I don't think I've ever looked at what role people want when lookin (I just look for what might fit best in my group)

One thing I think might help get the LFG spam out of the channels (and cure the problem of not being able to see the 70-80 chat when on an alt) is having a specific LFG channel that you can join at will or automatically get placed into when you put up your LFG tag. This would be an incentive to have your lfg tag up so that people can find you when making groups.

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Old 12-11-2008, 02:34 PM   #32
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I use it. As well as spam level chat, been picked up both ways so I know the tool 'works'.

Like the fact I can see other players groups and chat directly with the leader of the group.

Dislike;

The fact that afk/lfg people don't show as such have to do a who on them, very annoying dealing with players that are clearly afk yet still have lfg tags up.

The fact that players that are toggled anon or roleplay do not usually show up in that list.

Maybe the only real improvements one could make to the LFG system are;

Making annon/rpg flagged toons show up more consistently.

Show peoples instances lock out timers when they can be reset.

Allow someone to send their HQ quest for example to your journal for a side by side comparison flicking betwen personal and group via that quest tree is annoying some sort of temp anchor would be nice. Since I see quests apprently needing all group members on the same stage or it locks some out of that update till next time or w/e.

Overall the singular most important premium is time, very few people like time sinks, one of them used to be significant travel times, it still could be improved on, obviously the other is getting the [Removed for Content] people in the first place, it is annoying to have to sit in half or three quarters complete pug for over thirty minutes to fill out the last slots in order to do the content. But I'll comment below as to why no amount of LFG tool tweaks will fix it, maybe only highlight and pronounce the real issue.

Just general comments here. With regards to content/gear/player skill/player attitudes etc. Made this smaller as it not 100% relevant to the question but it has external influencing factor on social interaction within the game.

The disparity between good and bad players is not subtle any more. I understand raid mechanics are different to group mechanics, however the boost that some fully maxed toons get, more than double the dps/heals/tankability of said character when comparing them to just mere heroic instance geared toons, who are quite obviously roughly mid way through their progression ascension. I do not begrudge this but it feels lame both ways, I seen maxed out players just LD in pugs for what I assume is 'this group sucks because we are not clearing it fast enough or too many deaths where is my Mortal Kombat Flawless victory feeling going' and I seen instance geared folks drop group due to their own impatience and stupidity slowing down the group because they are used to only riding on the back of great(er) more well rounded groups. While the argument do what is fun for you is what this is about it is also about self centredness and working around group or personaility flaws. The biggest flaw in LFG pug is that one or two random people who just turn the rest of the group off which leads to...

Level chat at one time served a dual function of allowing people to mingle between guilds and non guilds openly and for player handles to develop some sort of reputation of at least being decent or useful to pick ups. At somepoint you end up developing a friends network and you rely less and less on pickups and more and more on your established friends network. Sometimes friends let you down (RL/emergency etc w/e) and you take a risk on inviting someone you don't know to fill out a spot. However level chat at times is just a few peoples personal flame war playground, or useless spam comments that deminish the value of the channel because more than three conversations are going on at once and they are all fast and heated for what ever reason and as always should have taken place in tells.

Personally I am somewhere between outsider having to rely on pickups for everything and continually building friends network, it is a never ending process, some players have recently moved on from EQ2 and others have now entered into the pickup game, since pick ups typically die in the last six months of an expansion as it's usually someone trying to gear up an alt more than anything else and long term players even if they adicts are bored sick of the content. However I think the biggest roadblock to pick ups being more frequent is the reliance on character progression or class combinations to finish some instances, or at least finish them on lazy easy mode setting as that seems to be what a lot of folks gun for. I don't mind wiping fourty times to finish a hard zone for the group, but a lot of people simply do not have six hours to take that kind of pain for pleasure, for some nine deaths is nine too many, even if it's not their own!

If an entry level pickup group can only put out five to six K dps zonewide then their list of instances is rather limited, a group that is putting out twenty to thirty k zone wide dps has access to all instances pretty much. The disparity is a little too large and I think that is what will kill pickups in the long run. It is not just a perceptual thing in the player base but it is rooted in some facts as to why a high calibre toon may not ever use pick ups unless absolutely forced to because their friends are not available or their guild is telling them to sit out but be on standby etc.

I am not sure why there is progression in heroic instances to this degree, but it has to be asked if someone managed to not raid at all and not have their myth and be in a static group that has done the same, then will they be able together as a static group maxed in instance attained gear to clear the hardest instance if they have grinded enough to get some of those elusive best drops for their class, I have my doubts about that. Well maybe it could be done, but over four hours in any instance personally starts to drive me loco, what really gets me unhinged is a pug taking nine hours or more to finish an instance that I did the day before in only fourty five minutes, why stick around you might ask if its that bad, cos on some level it's fun in a very sick way, especially if you finish the zone, but thats me and other stubborn people for you, [Removed for Content] us completionists eh!

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Old 12-11-2008, 03:22 PM   #33
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Maybe somehow the LFG window tool could be combined with the chat channels.  When the tool is up a 'grouping' message is automatically sent out in chat too.  Or the tool auto joins and removes you from new global LFG chat channels or something.  Perhaps like the chat filters for tells to windows, except when you are LFG or LFM it is automatically toggled on and you see it (level appropriate), and when your not you don't see it.

Another thought is to somehow 'reward' players for using the tool.  Maybe if you have been LFG for over 15 minutes, the group you join via the tool you get an automatic port right next to the group leader or something.  Or maybe half off your next repair bill, bonus extra 5% xp gain (mini xp potion), temp buff for extra 25% cash from drops, or something to help encourage people to use it.

I also don't think there is a way to specify what a person is locked out of.  That might help.

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Old 12-11-2008, 03:53 PM   #34
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never use it. use the level chats for all my group finding purposes quite well

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Old 12-11-2008, 04:05 PM   #35
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When it was one click to set my LFG tag, I used to use it all the time.  Now its a window that lags when it opens and takes three clicks, I tend not to use it.

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Old 12-11-2008, 04:20 PM   #36
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never use it, i find it doesn't have the flexability needed.  i use 79-79 chat, or get  random /tells asking if i want to help somewhere.

A field needs to be added so we can specify where we want to grp or for which expansion.

80 temp LFG "in TSO"

on the LFG tool have a drop down menu for a expansion, then on a tab or something have all the instances/zones listed so we could put a check next to the ones we are want/able to hit. 

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Old 12-11-2008, 04:26 PM   #37
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You know what would be nifty?  If there was a "bot" that monitored level chat and parsed out people who were LFG and set their LFG flag for them.  Let's face it, it wouldn't take much.  Most of those lines look pretty similar to:

L80 Troub LFG TSO Instances

Parser detects that someone is looking for group and sets their flag.  In the comments section of the LFG, it puts the line they typed:  L80 Troub LFG TSO Instances.

Instantly, the LFG tool becomes 1000 percent more useful.

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Old 12-11-2008, 05:18 PM   #38
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1. Allow you to LFG for more than one character. This is my main reason for not using it.

2. Automatically hide players who are AFK. A good percentage of the people I send tells to are afk.

Other things:

People don't like the hassle of putting together a group. Something to facilitate that would be good. For example, you often see in chat:

51 Guard LFG57 Warden LFG CT52 Wiz lfg

...none of those people ever say "Hey let's start a group!" Why, because the leader is dumped with the responsibility of finding a replacement in the event that someone leaves.

I seem to recall that WoW had an auto-group option. I don't think it grouped people intelligently though (for example putting people together without a tank or healer). If we could have something that recognized that we needed a tank or a leather healer or a bard specifically and it auto grouped people accordingly that might be awesome. Maybe we could set up "desired classes" or "desired archtype" and it hooks everyone up.

A right-click invite radial option would be really nice to have in chat channels too.

I just also wanted to add that 70-79  chat on some servers is not a very nice place,  filled with spam, barrens-chat style "humour", even DPS parses. As soon as I hit 80 I left that channel immediately and I hated having to use it to find groups (because nobody checks the tool ever) when I was 70-79.

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Old 12-11-2008, 07:24 PM   #39
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Me, I'd like it if when I type /lfg it just puts me as looking for group.  Most people know what a classes function is, so I don't really feel a need to specify that my wizard is ranged magic dps.

When it says you are now looking for group in the chat window, I'd also like it to say "Press Alt+L" or whatever the hotkey is to bring up advanced options.  In the advanced options is a list of toons you have on that server, you can then check yourself, and them as looking for group.  If someone wants to invite your alt into their group, it'll send the tell to you (even though they'll have a tell that looks like /tell alt_name).

Last I'd still like to see some kind of balanced teleport to group leader functionality.  That is, it will bring you to the group leader, or the zone in location (if it's an instance).  Maybe have a timer that only allows the group to call one person every 15 minutes (everyone in the group gets flagged when the ability gets used).  I mean it should be designed so that when you have 4 or 5 of your 6 people at the zone that you can just summon that last person instantly.  I've had to wait close to a half hour for the last person in a group to arrive b/c they got lost in Fens, and Kunzar.

I guess I also wouldn't mind a "group stone" that you can put yourself into a group queue, and when the queue finds a valid group (i.e. one healer, one tank, one dps, +1-3 others), it will send out an auto group invite to everyone.  You tag the stone for the instance(s) that you want to run, and then if you get an invite that you like you get to go in, if not then you get to go to the end of the queue.

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Old 12-12-2008, 08:14 AM   #40
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Denon wrote:

This is the deal:

People are having problems getting Pick Up Groups for TSO instances.

It is not because of a lack of a good LFG system. It is because Pick Up Groups do not work well with TSO instances where everyone needs to know the strategies and get better gear, learn harder strategies to do the harder instances.

The concept behind the TSO instances is great if you already have a group of people you play with on a regular basis, but terrible for the type of groups you would use a LFG system for. So it does not matter how good you make the LFG window, the new content simply is bad for this type of grouping.

I have to agee here. Honestly the biggest boost to pickup groups would be if at least the "easier" instances were actually easier than they are now. Something you can take inexperienced players through with some trouble, not a lot. I'm an up and coming tank (level 7SMILEY. You know why I haven't used a pick up group for them? I don't want to [Removed for Content] off 5 other players making mistakes or getting them frustrated trying to figure out the zone. I've barely tanked any of the RoK instances.

It was stated that the easier instances are tuned to 4-6 players in the dev chat. However, are we talking fabled gear with only 4? LOL

It would be nice if they were more approachable by pick up groups. I wouldn't want to take that task on, so I don't do it.

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Old 12-12-2008, 09:19 AM   #41
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The thing about the LFG window is a lot of people will refuse or just dont want to use it for some reason.

Typing /LFG brings up the window and sets your tag, and has a few other options that are prefilled for you and you dont even need to touch.

It takes a few seconds to click the "Start Looking" button I really dont understand what the problem is in using it .... perhaps people are just too lazy to do that.

I wish people would use it more, but I guess some people have their reasons for not using it, or ignoring it totally.

I watch 70-79 regularly for grouping calls, and what you often see is people calling out for tanks and healers in the level channels and just ignoring the 2 tanks and 3 healers in the LFG window ..... I mean,  come on ...

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Old 12-12-2008, 11:13 AM   #42
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Leucippus wrote:

(2) There is no way to know what classes and levels (skill) are in a group before joining a group.

Yes, there is.  If you hover your mouse over the "number of people in the group" cell of the table, you will see a list of classes and levels.

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Old 12-12-2008, 01:50 PM   #43
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I havent really read all inputs but here's a few things that I think might improve it a bit.

  • If you are starting a group you select what kind of classes you want, their level range and where/what quest you want and everyone with a match that are LFG will get invited automagically. Here I think you should be able to set rather specific what you want or just a match to the subclass or whatever. Like for example you perhaps want a tank but not a shadowknight you should be able to select this.
  • If you are lfg you also should select what instances/dungeons or quest you are interested in and if you are a match with someone else starting a group you will get an invite.
  • Have some advanced settings for those who perhaps only want to invite people from the friends list, guild, mythical completion etc SMILEY
  • Be able to use it the old way if someone prefer that, free text etc.

Obviously this is not for everyone but as a casual grouper looking for a quick bash without the hassle of going thru scanning the channels, send tells for lockouts and other stuff I think this could work quite well.

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Old 12-12-2008, 07:28 PM   #44
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I primarily solo, but when I do need a group for certain zones, I put up the lfg tag and also put it in chat.  However, I would add a big yes to the suggestion of the ability for it to display all of/chosen alts that you're willing to group with, no matter what toon you're currently playing.

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Old 12-13-2008, 08:46 AM   #45
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It serves it's purpose, as far as displaying your lfg status and finding other players for your group.

Honestly some of the features feel unnecessary. You could probably make it seem less complicated by removing the checkboxes for your class roles, and the stars next to player names that...I'm not even sure what those are for.

One feature I have always wanted to see is the quest journal integrated with the LFG system.

Allow us to check a box in our quest journal next to quests we want to actively persue, and allow us to search for other lfg players who are working on the same quests.

I have dozens of quests in my journal that have been sitting there for years just because I cannot solo them nor find any groups interested in doing the same quests.

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Old 12-13-2008, 12:03 PM   #46
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Foolsfolly wrote:

and the stars next to player names that...I'm not even sure what those are for.

They indicate the quality of the match between your character and the group's criteria.  If you're willing to mentor, for example, any group searching for a level range that includes or is lower than yours will show with three green stars.  I can't remember off-hand if the scoring mechanism takes desired group roles into account.. I'd have to check.

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Old 12-16-2008, 04:57 PM   #47
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I'd like to see it as something you set up once and the same options are used whenever you use /lfg again.  Rather than open the window everytime and click the same button because I don't want to mentor every time and click ok every time, just set it up once and be done.  If I want to change my lfg options, use the button in the group window.

I gets repetitive to have the window pop up everytime and that one option never saving.  One and done is my vote.

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Old 12-17-2008, 08:30 AM   #48
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Yes, I regularly use it.

I like it for LFM, tho i'd prefer to see more people using it.

What I dont like:

- /lfg opens the window: I'd rather see /lfg just flags you and if you want to comment yourself it should be possible this way: /lfg

for example: /lfg TSO only

- Default level range at level 80 should be 80 to 80 in LFM window

- Mentor box is checked by default (should be unchecked)

Maybe it should be possible to set up your own default LFG/LFM settings in options.

/edit: Not about LFG window but lfg: You should see in Guild Window when someones LFG

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Old 12-20-2008, 02:02 PM   #49
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1. /lfg should tag you without bringing up the interface window. If you'd like to add a comment this should follow the /lfg command.

2. Like you can set your default loot options you should be able to set your default LFG options so you need not go through the process of opening the window and ticking the same boxes each time e.g. MT/OT/DPS/NO-MENTOR/LEVEL-80 etc.

3. The LFG window should include tick boxes for each instance. Instances should be groupped by expansion so you could just tick say TSO and be flagged as interested in any TSO instance. Your reuse timers should be shown alongside each instance and each instance should be graded to show it's intended difficulty. As above these zone tick boxes should be configurable in the default LFG options. Zones that are locked should automatically be dropped until they are available again.

4. When you tag up LFG a short message should be automatically generated in the appropriate level chat channel e.g. RedDwarf 80 Templar is LFG - Any TSO, daily double prefered.

5. The group looking for more tab is not required. System should be kept simple with one place to look for available players. If a group is formed up and can't find what they are after in the LFG window then they will advertise in level chat to see if they catch anyones eye.

- Roldy

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Old 12-21-2008, 06:03 PM   #50
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/LFG should just set you LFG with the appropriate default 'role' tags for your class type (or last used for that CHARACTER, at present these seem to be per account which means whenever I swap from mystic to wizard or vice versa I have to reset the 'role' tags)

/LFG   should set an lfg message

/LFGT should work as /LFG but for tradeskill class not adventure

Whenever /LFG or /LFGT an icon should appear on your player window to indicate this, clicking this icon takes you to the "Player looking for more" window to tweak the options

/LFM and/or Clicking the "search for players" button on the group bar should go directly to the "Group looking for more" option on advanced LFG and not the community window.  (I think /LFM already works)

"I will mentor" should be unticked as default, personally I *do* mentor but most don't and some get downright shirty when you ask them to mentor.

EDIT: and at the option to /lfg characters on the same account at once. even if only a few people do this, it will kick start the use of the advanced lfg (more potential matches to choose from)

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Old 12-21-2008, 06:54 PM   #51
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How important are the "role" checkboxes in the LFG window?  For the purpose of making the window more managable in size would you be ok with losing the "role" options if it meant allowing you to specify your alts that are LFG?

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Old 12-21-2008, 07:12 PM   #52
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People can always ask what role you want to play, or you can even mention it so it's not a huge loss.

Being able to list alts/others on account would make it much more usable I think.

Also, you could always add an option to auto /lfg if you are not in a group for say 30 mins or so, make it the default action instead of not being /lfg unless you flag yourself as such.

Of course make it an option like the auto /afk thing in case soem people just don't want to be /lfg at all.

More options and more choice is usually good.

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Old 12-21-2008, 07:14 PM   #53
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Rothgar wrote:

How important are the "role" checkboxes in the LFG window? For the purpose of making the window more managable in size would you be ok with losing the "role" options if it meant allowing you to specify your alts that are LFG?

DEFINITELY YES, screw the roles if you get to put in alts instead.

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Old 12-21-2008, 09:10 PM   #54
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Nathdorl wrote:

Rothgar wrote:

How important are the "role" checkboxes in the LFG window? For the purpose of making the window more managable in size would you be ok with losing the "role" options if it meant allowing you to specify your alts that are LFG?

DEFINITELY YES, screw the roles if you get to put in alts instead.

Agreed, group dynamics are more complex than 8 tickboxes and they don't really substitute for a proper chat.

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Old 12-21-2008, 10:56 PM   #55
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Rothgar wrote:

How important are the "role" checkboxes in the LFG window?  For the purpose of making the window more managable in size would you be ok with losing the "role" options if it meant allowing you to specify your alts that are LFG?

Roles are usually self explainatory in any case, and if in doubt, everything can be clarifed via a quick /tell.

My main reason for not using the LFG window is that I can't search for groups for all my alts. I have tried putting that info in the notes (LFG also for 53 defiler, 62 troubador) but nobody reads the note. (I know this to be true because I also often write "please send a tell first" in that box, and very rarely get anything other than a blind invite!)

Maybe the note in general is superflous too since people don't read it.

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Old 12-21-2008, 11:13 PM   #56
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I like the role options for the LFM window, but as the class defines the roles you can play they are not needed for the LFG window. I would highly favor an option to list my alts.
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Old 12-21-2008, 11:29 PM   #57
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Doint realy use the LFG window, i use the chat.  What i do use alot is my friends list, you know the list you make when you meet great ppl to group with,  Why cant we get som upgrades to this, being able to invite via a right click or tell.

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Old 12-21-2008, 11:33 PM   #58
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the ability to include alts in lfg window far outweigh the importance of having the "role" checkboxes, i believe many if not all the players would be happy if this change is in.

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Old 12-22-2008, 01:30 AM   #59
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Calthine wrote:

I never use it.  I'd like to see the "LFW" features given more flexibility, though.

I second this. I never use the LFG window but LFW needs love!

I play on one of the busiest servers, AB, and I rarely see more than a couple people using LFW if at all. More often than not, someone starts spamming the channels when they need a crafter. I've been told by customers more than once that they'd been spamming the channel for hours before I responded. I'd happy fly the LFW tag if the menu resembled the current LFG one.

Back to the main topic however...

I liked the suggestions from Ylis' post about automatically removing someone who is AFK and allowing people to LFG their alts (especially since EQ2 now has XP bonus for alts when you have capped characters). I think he's spot on about the trepidation to start groups, and the idea for an auto-grouping feature is intriguing. Streamlining the design of the window itself would help too, there's a lot of redundant information there (like roles).

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Old 12-22-2008, 12:01 PM   #60
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Rothgar wrote:

I'd like to hear your opinions on the current "Looking to group" window. 

Do you use it?

No.

What do you like about it? 

It looks neat.

What do you NOT like about it? 

Novices aren't acquainted with it at all. Hiding player location is okay, hiding player level isn't.

Do you have any suggestions for making it better?

You should never be able to remove yourself from the LFG list unless you do so manually in your options. The amount of pick-up content I've gotten going has always been from doing / all # # (/ alone defaults to /who, two numbers next to each other specifies a level range) or broadcasting on the public chat channels.

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