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Old 11-04-2008, 09:06 PM   #1
Rothgar

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We are considering amending the rules in houses and guild halls to allow the owners of No-Trade items to pick them back up even if their access level normally wouldn't permit them to do so.  This would allow people to place items with a little more reassurance that they could retrieve it at a later time.  However, if their access were completely removed so they couldn't enter the house, they still would not be able to retrieve the item.

What do you guys think about this change?  Would it solve more problems than it would create?

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Old 11-04-2008, 09:19 PM   #2
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Yes, PLEASE do this!  We have a lost and found pile of junk we want OUT of our guild hall but no one can even check if the stuff belongs to them unless we reset everyone to trustee.

Also please list who owns what on the "pick up an item" button instead of just "this isn't yours."

And please let the guild leader delete items.  Or if you don't want stuff deleted, a house vault or a moving crate type thing that people can put stuff INTO would be great... that way it wouldn't clear up item count but at least it would clear up some of the item lag.

The last two items are slightly off topic but adress the same problem.  At least in our guild, the problem isn't that people want stuff back it is that we can't get the people to take the stuff back that they placed and no one can do anything about it since no drop things can't be removed by anyone else.

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Old 11-04-2008, 09:25 PM   #3
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JenarieII wrote:

Yes, PLEASE do this!  We have a lost and found pile of junk we want OUT of our guild hall but no one can even check if the stuff belongs to them unless we reset everyone to trustee.

Also please list who owns what on the "pick up an item" button instead of just "this isn't yours."

And please let the guild leader delete items.  Or if you don't want stuff deleted, a house vault or a moving crate type thing that people can put stuff INTO would be great... that way it wouldn't clear up item count but at least it would clear up some of the item lag.

The last two items are slightly off topic but adress the same problem.  At least in our guild, the problem isn't that people want stuff back it is that we can't get the people to take the stuff back that they placed and no one can do anything about it since no drop things can't be removed by anyone else.

I've already added the owner's name to the "pick up an item" list.  I think this change is active on beta.  Also, the house owner or guild leader in the case of a guild hall should get a "destroy" option on any No-Trade item that doesn't belong to them.

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Old 11-04-2008, 09:37 PM   #4
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Rothgar wrote:

We are considering amending the rules in houses and guild halls to allow the owners of No-Trade items to pick them back up even if their access level normally wouldn't permit them to do so.  This would allow people to place items with a little more reassurance that they could retrieve it at a later time.  However, if their access were completely removed so they couldn't enter the house, they still would not be able to retrieve the item.

What do you guys think about this change?  Would it solve more problems than it would create?

Perfect solution would be:

if player owns item in house/guildhall

allow viewable access window from access door/bell

retrieve item function from window

This solves all access/direction problems.

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Old 11-04-2008, 09:44 PM   #5
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Marillion wrote:

Perfect solution would be:

if player owns item in house/guildhall

allow viewable access window from access door/bell

retrieve item function from window

This solves all access/direction problems.

This solution is not possible at the moment because we do not want to load or modify the housing information outside of the house zone itself.  It leads to data becoming out of sync and potential exploits.

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Old 11-04-2008, 09:54 PM   #6
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Rothgar wrote:

I've already added the owner's name to the "pick up an item" list.  I think this change is active on beta.  Also, the house owner or guild leader in the case of a guild hall should get a "destroy" option on any No-Trade item that doesn't belong to them.

/cheer

The list is going to help tons.  Now I'll know who to nag to pick up junk!

Back on topic, people being able to pick up thier own no-drop items seems ideal to me. SMILEY

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Old 11-05-2008, 05:07 AM   #7
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I guess that rules out me paying someone to place quest no_trade items in my house.. bleh. now I have to do the create new char, do quest, place item, delete char, rince repeat routine again.. :/

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Old 11-05-2008, 08:02 AM   #8
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Thanks for adding the owners name to the Itemlist *prepares to burn all the papers he had written of wich member had contributed what item*

I think it would be a wonderful thing if the original owners could take back their stuff without making them trustee every time - not so sure about the "destroy" for guildleaders because it could lead to some problems.

Since you are looking into guild-hall items maybe is there the possibility to make those fun-items like the dirty-robot (i love the destroy option ) work for friends and visitors?

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Old 11-05-2008, 08:12 AM   #9
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A very good idea, but is it possible also to be able, when you are the owner of the house/GH to be able to take an item that you are not the owner ? i have made a house on neriak before being on Gorowyn and unable to take off item from my moving crate because my toons are good side and unable to go on the end of neriak to be able to get out them of the crate too. It is the same problem with friend who decorate with me and now are playing on other game and have no news from them that put the crate full of "not owner items" and puts number of max items always up.

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Old 11-05-2008, 12:22 PM   #10
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I think this is a great idea and I also would agree with Shikome about being able to 'contol' all of the items in your house.  I have a ton of alts & it would certainly make life easier for me if I had full control of all the no-trades I have in a specific house.

edited for spelling

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Old 11-05-2008, 12:52 PM   #11
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Vulkan_NTooki wrote:

I guess that rules out me paying someone to place quest no_trade items in my house.. bleh. now I have to do the create new char, do quest, place item, delete char, rince repeat routine again.. :/

I actually had to read this twice to understand your issue.

The new way would require more trust, that those you paid wouldn't waltz in an pick the item up.  You could put them on the no access list once you've gotten the item from them and shut them out of the house.

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Old 11-05-2008, 01:08 PM   #12
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Wouldn't it be simpler and less problematic to just take NO TRADE off most items?  People who want no-trade items manage to get them if they want them, so why not save all the headaches and just remove the lable.

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Old 11-05-2008, 01:21 PM   #13
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How hard would it be to have the homeowner/guildleader be able to remove an item from the home/hall and have it go directly to the item owners inventory?

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Old 11-05-2008, 01:42 PM   #14
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

How hard would it be to have the homeowner/guildleader be able to remove an item from the home/hall and have it go directly to the item owners inventory?

Or just be mailed to them?  There is already a mail system in place to notify someone via game email when a house that contains one of their items moves to a new address - perhaps it would be possible to utilize that system to allow a home owner to mail an item back to its original owner...  Since pretty much everything except the AA mirrors have had lore removed, lore tags shouldn't be an issue.

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Old 11-05-2008, 02:35 PM   #15
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This is a fantastic idea!!

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Old 11-05-2008, 02:38 PM   #16
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GrunEQ wrote:

Wouldn't it be simpler and less problematic to just take NO TRADE off most items?  People who want no-trade items manage to get them if they want them, so why not save all the headaches and just remove the lable.

QFE....

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Old 11-05-2008, 02:49 PM   #17
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Vulkan_NTooki wrote:

I guess that rules out me paying someone to place quest no_trade items in my house.. bleh. now I have to do the create new char, do quest, place item, delete char, rince repeat routine again.. :/

That is echoing my own concern. I had a friend once help me decorate my house and I gave her money to purchase status merchant items on my behalf for it. The friendship has since ended and I don't like the idea that she could come in any time and pick up the items that I actually bought. I keep my house open to the public because I actually sell from there.

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Old 11-05-2008, 03:41 PM   #18
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Tinrae wrote:

Vulkan_NTooki wrote:

I guess that rules out me paying someone to place quest no_trade items in my house.. bleh. now I have to do the create new char, do quest, place item, delete char, rince repeat routine again.. :/

That is echoing my own concern. I had a friend once help me decorate my house and I gave her money to purchase status merchant items on my behalf for it. The friendship has since ended and I don't like the idea that she could come in any time and pick up the items that I actually bought. I keep my house open to the public because I actually sell from there.

Just grant your ex-friend "none" access to your home... even if you keep it open for visitors, they don't even see you on the list and cannot go in

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Old 11-05-2008, 03:45 PM   #19
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Do not  allow the leader to delete MY ITEMS ....

Simply add the option to remove it, this will send me the item by mail.  This will solve issues raised by people;eaving the game or a guild and letting item in the hall.  A simple "send back to owner" options would solve that.

And yes an owner should be able to remove one of its item, and owner name sould be on no trade items.

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Old 11-05-2008, 04:03 PM   #20
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I've helped decorating 2 guildhalls. I made sure not to place ANY item I didn't want to part with in either of them. Because once I've finished decorating my part in a guildhall, the items I used in these decorations no longer belongs to me. They belong to the guild. I would NEVER go back and take that stuff back under any circumstances.

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Old 11-05-2008, 04:16 PM   #21
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Amphibia wrote:

I've helped decorating 2 guildhalls. I made sure not to place ANY item I didn't want to part with in either of them. Because once I've finished decorating my part in a guildhall, the items I used in these decorations no longer belongs to me. They belong to the guild. I would NEVER go back and take that stuff back under any circumstances.

I love the idea of the owners name being on the list.  One step better would be a flag "owned by xxxx" when "pickup" is greyed out.  The option to "mail item back to owner" is THE BEST!  I totally support that idea.

As for amphibia's comment, this is very noble of you; HOWEVER some guild decorators WANT you to take your no-trade stuff back.  Especially with holiday decorating.  Currently, we have 20 bone sculptures in our throne room that NOONE will claim.  Ive threatened to destroy them if they arent removed by Friday, but as we all know, that is not even an option unless I can talk the guild leader into it.  Which shouldnt be hard, because she is a friend in real life, but I dont want to HAVE to delete anyones stuff.  There really needs to be a way to get the items our of our way w/o being mean about it. 

I had sent in feedback asking for exactly that the other day.  Of course, my idea was a bit different than the mailing option.  I had suggested creating a guild vault and give trustee/owners the option to "place in gulid vault" removing the item from the guild hall and the item count and allowing all guild members access to the guild vault.  But I really like the mail option better, cause it relieves the guild hall from any further responsibility for the items in question. 

 

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Old 11-05-2008, 04:24 PM   #22
Tinrae

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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Tinrae wrote:

Just grant your ex-friend "none" access to your home... even if you keep it open for visitors, they don't even see you on the list and cannot go in

Ah, thank you!

I was not aware that I could bar a single person from my house, only thought it was an all-or-none kinda thing.

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Old 11-05-2008, 04:29 PM   #23
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GrunEQ wrote:

Wouldn't it be simpler and less problematic to just take NO TRADE off most items?  People who want no-trade items manage to get them if they want them, so why not save all the headaches and just remove the lable.

QFE!  I have always preferred this idea.  .. With the exception of a few really good items, of course.

Otherwise, I think having people pick up their own items is okay .. except in the situations where we as players actually do occassioanlly pay other players to place those items into our homes. .. which wouldn't be as much of a problem if most "decorative" items weren't no trade in the first place!   

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Old 11-05-2008, 06:19 PM   #24
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Vulkan_NTooki wrote:

I guess that rules out me paying someone to place quest no_trade items in my house.. bleh. now I have to do the create new char, do quest, place item, delete char, rince repeat routine again.. :/

You can "black list" someone so they cannot enter even if you have public set to visitor. just add their name with permission "none"

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Old 11-05-2008, 07:19 PM   #25
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If it were reasonably feasible, it'd be great to have a checkbox for "Allow free retrieval of No-Trade items" which friendly guildhalls could leave checked, but homeowners could keep unchecked after paying for decorations, hopefully pleasing both sides.

Yes it would potentially allow an owner to give the expectation of free and open then lock in someones items unscrupulously later on, but they could already do that with access restrictions. This way owners won't have to lock past decorators out of being able to return to their homes.

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Old 11-05-2008, 08:07 PM   #26
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Rothgar,

Any thought about an Attic or somthing where guilds can store their unused decorations, they wouldnt be visable or rendered, however if a guild wanted to pull out the Frostfell decorations and store away the Halloween decorations they would be able to without taking up guild valut space or personal storage.  this attic should only allow furniture items so it coulnt be used as additional guild bank

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Old 11-06-2008, 01:14 AM   #27
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[email protected] wrote:

If it were reasonably feasible, it'd be great to have a checkbox for "Allow free retrieval of No-Trade items" which friendly guildhalls could leave checked, but homeowners could keep unchecked after paying for decorations, hopefully pleasing both sides.

Yes it would potentially allow an owner to give the expectation of free and open then lock in someones items unscrupulously later on, but they could already do that with access restrictions. This way owners won't have to lock past decorators out of being able to return to their homes.

Perfect idea for people who hire decorators and do not wish to blacklist them afterwards just to maintain item security; I would prefer to allow the decorator access but wish to ensure that my paid-for items stay.

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Old 11-06-2008, 02:58 PM   #28
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I LOVE the "Mail to Owner" idea, and also the tag to show who owns an item, BUT I really, really hate the allow someone to pick up an item if trustee access is removed idea.  In our Guild Hall, we have had several members purchase crafting stations and place them in the Hall for us.  If we now allow them to pick them back up without trustee access, if they decide they're mad at us and are going to leave the Guild, we could lose our station.  Could we maybe make this a setting, so those who like the idea can allow it, and those who do not can choose not to?  I personally feel that if you choose to place something in someone else's home (or Guild Hall), you choose to take the risk of losing said item.  I would truly love to see the OWNER of the house/hall to have more options, not the people who gave something to another player's house!

-SirrakukLeader, VirtueAntonia Bayle server

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Old 11-06-2008, 03:27 PM   #29
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Just a few notes :

1.  If you try to destroy an Item you do get a confirmation popup that tells you who the owner is.  So if you have a pile of notrades you want removed, they aren't so anonymous as the guildleader can hit destroy, note the name, then abort the destroy and contact the member to remove said item.  But better if any trustee can tell who owns things.  I love the idea of being able to ship things back to their owner via the mail.

2. If you click the entrance door to the guildhall - from the inside - there is the access house vault option which opens your personal house vault.  I wish it was accessable from /house, but if you can keep it open, there are several crates you can keep house items in, and access from anywhere in the guildhall,  without having to carry the crates in inventory.

3. Even more furniture storage, you get a furniture-specific sales display and put it into your broker.  They hold a lot more than regular salescrates like 88 items.  2 of these let me replace 5 strongboxes from my shared bank.  Leave the items as 'not for sale' if you don't plan to sell them.  They can be accessed from the guildhall broker or any 'broker board'.

The inability to pick up notrades is a pain as I can't use a teleporter while moving things.  Anyone have a way around this? Surely theres some way to select things from a list and activate without using the mouse?  I'm grateful that the doors are automatic.

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Old 11-06-2008, 03:31 PM   #30
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Uryuk wrote:

Rothgar,

Any thought about an Attic or somthing where guilds can store their unused decorations, they wouldnt be visable or rendered, however if a guild wanted to pull out the Frostfell decorations and store away the Halloween decorations they would be able to without taking up guild valut space or personal storage.  this attic should only allow furniture items so it coulnt be used as additional guild bank

Uryuk

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When I designed the Crafting Supply Depot I did it in a generic way that would allow us to create other types of containers to store items.  So this would be a possiblity and definitely something we can look into in the future.

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