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Old 03-13-2012, 02:39 PM   #721
Lempo

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[email protected] wrote:

This is basically the crux; now you do have a choice, but you will not be handed another free option.  Where as before you had zero altrnative, and since people don't want to put in effort to further cutomize it shoujld be left up to the designers how to use your adornment slots?  Why?

Personally, I appreciate the new freedom to use anything instead of CM, it's a lot more interesting.  The difference being is that I actually look forward to the work to replace them...

Yeah, being forced to faceroll through content that is far below your gear level is something to look forward to .

I guess it would be if you are willing to and even can do SLR on the items that is if you even need any plat.

It would be one thing if HM raid zones dropped a white and blue shard like they should OR if blue shard could be used in place of white shards.

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Old 03-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #722
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Or if blues could be traded for whites.  Whatever.

In any event, what Lempo said is exactly right.  If you're still in the "gear up the raid" phase, sure, it's not a big deal.  On the other hand, if you're in the "push progression" phase, farming shards is a ludicrous, un-fun proposition.

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Old 03-13-2012, 05:24 PM   #723
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

This is basically the crux; now you do have a choice, but you will not be handed another free option.  Where as before you had zero altrnative, and since people don't want to put in effort to further cutomize it shoujld be left up to the designers how to use your adornment slots?  Why?

Personally, I appreciate the new freedom to use anything instead of CM, it's a lot more interesting.  The difference being is that I actually look forward to the work to replace them...

Yeah, being forced to faceroll through content that is far below your gear level is something to look forward to .

I guess it would be if you are willing to and even can do SLR on the items that is if you even need any plat.

It would be one thing if HM raid zones dropped a white and blue shard like they should OR if blue shard could be used in place of white shards.

You do realize that it is possible to earn somewhere around 60 white shards in a day, right?

I have always thought an adornemt recipe to distill blue shards or composite white to blue would be an awesome addition.

EDIT:  A rare drop recipe...?  That's good incentive.

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Old 03-14-2012, 02:03 PM   #724
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

This is basically the crux; now you do have a choice, but you will not be handed another free option.  Where as before you had zero altrnative, and since people don't want to put in effort to further cutomize it shoujld be left up to the designers how to use your adornment slots?  Why?

Personally, I appreciate the new freedom to use anything instead of CM, it's a lot more interesting.  The difference being is that I actually look forward to the work to replace them...

Yeah, being forced to faceroll through content that is far below your gear level is something to look forward to .

I guess it would be if you are willing to and even can do SLR on the items that is if you even need any plat.

It would be one thing if HM raid zones dropped a white and blue shard like they should OR if blue shard could be used in place of white shards.

You do realize that it is possible to earn somewhere around 60 white shards in a day, right?

I have always thought an adornemt recipe to distill blue shards or composite white to blue would be an awesome addition.

EDIT:  A rare drop recipe...?  That's good incentive.

Sure, but that means doing zones I don't want to do, taking up time I don't want to spend to get myself BACK to where I would have been if CM hadn't ever been added in the first place. And it totally discounts all the time I ALREADY spent getting all those shards that are now made into useless adorns I never would have purchased in the first place.

Add me to the "Add White Shards to HM mobs" camp, I shouldn't have to be forced to solo or run heroic zones to adorn my raid gear.

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Old 03-14-2012, 04:01 PM   #725
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[email protected] wrote:

I actually look forward to the work to replace them...

I can't wait to solo and/or duo ToFS and Pools til my eyes bleed. Oh wait, I've been doing that for the last months waiting for new content.

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Old 03-14-2012, 06:15 PM   #726
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It's not that hard of a decision, whiners.  In all likelihood, if you're that far a long, this won't affect you at all.  And if it does maybe you could stop sharing shards with alts, or roll another toon and noob it out for a few more days.

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Old 03-19-2012, 05:53 PM   #727
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critmit goes away tomorrow.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=516297

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Old 03-19-2012, 06:02 PM   #728
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

critmit goes away tomorrow.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=516297

Dream come true ... Raid forming Drunder HM needs Tank/Healer/Chanter ... Thurgadin gear ok pst.

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Old 03-28-2012, 12:53 PM   #729
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As expected most of those who were 'dancing in the streets' over this have gone totally silent and it isn't because they are able to do anymore than they could before or are being taken into groups more than before.

There were no threads created about how people were all of a sudden in Shangri La, they have just simply went silent.

My guild had been working HM Sullon before crit mit was removed and we finally beat her after, but the removal of crit mit was not the reason and had nothing at all to do with getting the kill as no one was getting critted because we had follwed the clear path of progression that gave us the gear we needed to accomplish the kill.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:00 PM   #730
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Actually, its been silent cause people only post when their upset.

Since this change, we made several progression kills, one we did with undergeared recruits that would have NEVER survived in the same encounter before this change.

So, we're spending more nights working progression instead of farming to gear recruits, so its a 'win' in my book.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:19 PM   #731
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[email protected] wrote:

Actually, its been silent cause people only post when their upset.

Since this change, we made several progression kills, one we did with undergeared recruits that would have NEVER survived in the same encounter before this change.

So, we're spending more nights working progression instead of farming to gear recruits, so its a 'win' in my book.

That really speaks more about those who the "recruits" took the place of than the CM itself.  Gear = Time nothing more, nothing less.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:27 PM   #732
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[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Actually, its been silent cause people only post when their upset.

Since this change, we made several progression kills, one we did with undergeared recruits that would have NEVER survived in the same encounter before this change.

So, we're spending more nights working progression instead of farming to gear recruits, so its a 'win' in my book.

That really speaks more about those who the "recruits" took the place of than the CM itself.  Gear = Time nothing more, nothing less.

I don't agree really.  You not knowing all the people involved, the orriginal folks were extremely good players, just burned out with the game. 

Removing critmit allows me as a raid leader to better combat the natural attrition of players.  When we spend half the amount of time gearing new people, the old people will stay longer and I'll have fewer new people needing to gear.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:28 PM   #733
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The point you made there Atan is about the only point that would have any validity at all here.

I'm not sure what progression kills you got but grats on them. Having 1 or 2 undergeared people now will certainly offer  some more survivability, I won't argue that. Depending on how undergeared and/or how many undergeared though is certainly not going to make DPS checks like Hragdold, Sullon, Tyrax etc doable. I just don't want those fights nerfed to where they become trivial.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:51 PM   #734
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[email protected] wrote:

 Depending on how undergeared and/or how many undergeared though is certainly not going to make DPS checks like Hragdold, Sullon, Tyrax etc doable. I just don't want those fights nerfed to where they become trivial.

It may or may not.  But if I've got I have a lower turnout raid with more healers than I might require and an assasin raid alt that could fill an uneeded healer slot, it might be what it takes to get it done that night.

But I also absolutely don't want to see content nerfed as a result.  I understand that things are adjusted and nerfed over time so that the community isn't seperated too far, but I wouldn't want it to be changed just cause more people are trying it and admitedly some under geared for it.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:58 PM   #735
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Actually, its been silent cause people only post when their upset.

Since this change, we made several progression kills, one we did with undergeared recruits that would have NEVER survived in the same encounter before this change.

So, we're spending more nights working progression instead of farming to gear recruits, so its a 'win' in my book.

That really speaks more about those who the "recruits" took the place of than the CM itself.  Gear = Time nothing more, nothing less.

I don't agree really.  You not knowing all the people involved, the orriginal folks were extremely good players, just burned out with the game. 

Removing critmit allows me as a raid leader to better combat the natural attrition of players.  When we spend half the amount of time gearing new people, the old people will stay longer and I'll have fewer new people needing to gear.

Raiders burning out, although understandable, is not a strong enough reason to revamp an entire system.  We're still back to the CM = Time situation, especially for guilds that need only to replace a few people at a time.   You may not agree in theory, but your arguements parallel mine, "you spend half the amount of time gearing new people".

The issue as Lempo reiterates is what time-saves we accept today will ultimately morph into more impacting time-savers later and that means nerfing content even further.

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:00 PM   #736
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Raiders burning out, although understandable, is not a strong enough reason to revamp an entire system.  We're still back to the CM = Time situation, especially for guilds that need only to replace a few people at a time.   You may not agree in theory, but your arguements parallel mine, "you spend half the amount of time gearing new people".

The issue as Lempo reiterates is what time-saves we accept today will ultimately morph into more impacting time-savers later and that means nerfing content even further.

That has got to be the weakest arguement I've heard.  Allowing players to play more progression content does not mandate progression content be nerfed.

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:02 PM   #737
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

 Depending on how undergeared and/or how many undergeared though is certainly not going to make DPS checks like Hragdold, Sullon, Tyrax etc doable. I just don't want those fights nerfed to where they become trivial.

It may or may not.  But if I've got I have a lower turnout raid with more healers than I might require and an assasin raid alt that could fill an uneeded healer slot, it might be what it takes to get it done that night.

But I also absolutely don't want to see content nerfed as a result.  I understand that things are adjusted and nerfed over time so that the community isn't seperated too far, but I wouldn't want it to be changed just cause more people are trying it and admitedly some under geared for it.

But the million dollar questions is: How will they know they are undergeared for it???  When they skip content, because SOE says it's ok now, they will not have the gear, but no game mechanic will tell them that other then their continued wipe cycle.  Then the messgae boards will toss out the L2P and the /Noob and those failed raiders will either scream for Nerfs or Quit, leaving the game as a whole further behind than it is already.

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #738
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

Raiders burning out, although understandable, is not a strong enough reason to revamp an entire system.  We're still back to the CM = Time situation, especially for guilds that need only to replace a few people at a time.   You may not agree in theory, but your arguements parallel mine, "you spend half the amount of time gearing new people".

The issue as Lempo reiterates is what time-saves we accept today will ultimately morph into more impacting time-savers later and that means nerfing content even further.

That has got to be the weakest arguement I've heard.  Allowing players to play more progression content does not mandate progression content be nerfed.

This has never been the case until a guild is at the highest HM tier.  Every single lower tier raid has always had extremely attainable CM restrictions, so much to the fact that raiders would no more have ot ding 90 and wear 6+ pieces of crafted gear plus a quested Chest piece to meat raiding CM requirments.  So, I fail to see how CM has made any difference in any content below HM zones. 

If people want to skip progression then by all means kill the CM and let them fail to Gear checks.  But if that progression was completed those checks would be unneeded.

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:10 PM   #739
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[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

But I also absolutely don't want to see content nerfed as a result.  I understand that things are adjusted and nerfed over time so that the community isn't seperated too far, but I wouldn't want it to be changed just cause more people are trying it and admitedly some under geared for it.

But the million dollar questions is: How will they know they are undergeared for it???  When they skip content, because SOE says it's ok now, they will not have the gear, but no game mechanic will tell them that other then their continued wipe cycle.  Then the messgae boards will toss out the L2P and the /Noob and those failed raiders will either scream for Nerfs or Quit, leaving the game as a whole further behind than it is already.

It will be exactly as it was before there was CM.

We as a community have an understanding what dps numbers are needed for dps check fights.  We can plainly see when the issue is someone just doesn't have the hp/mit/heals needed to stay alive in a fight.

Sure, there will be some that come around and say 'its just not possible'  or 'its too hard', but I don't think it mandates nerfs any more than it did before CM was in the game.  We don't really need an arbitrary gear score to gauge if we're ready for an encounter or not.

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:19 PM   #740
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

But I also absolutely don't want to see content nerfed as a result.  I understand that things are adjusted and nerfed over time so that the community isn't seperated too far, but I wouldn't want it to be changed just cause more people are trying it and admitedly some under geared for it.

But the million dollar questions is: How will they know they are undergeared for it???  When they skip content, because SOE says it's ok now, they will not have the gear, but no game mechanic will tell them that other then their continued wipe cycle.  Then the messgae boards will toss out the L2P and the /Noob and those failed raiders will either scream for Nerfs or Quit, leaving the game as a whole further behind than it is already.

It will be exactly as it was before there was CM.

We as a community have an understanding what dps numbers are needed for dps check fights.  We can plainly see when the issue is someone just doesn't have the hp/mit/heals needed to stay alive in a fight.

Sure, there will be some that come around and say 'its just not possible'  or 'its too hard', but I don't think it mandates nerfs any more than it did before CM was in the game.  We don't really need an arbitrary gear score to gauge if we're ready for an encounter or not.

While I don't disagree with any of that, the plethora of "You need the gear FROM the zone to DO the zone" posts would claim otherwise.  Depending on how loud those voices are will depend how much content is nerfed.

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:33 PM   #741
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[email protected] wrote:

  We don't really need an arbitrary gear score to gauge if we're ready for an encounter or not. 

The problem here is the double edged sword.

There was no gear score per sey to determine if you were ready for an encounter or not, you couldn't survive the hits if you were not. If you can't burn these adds down in under 20 seconds then you fail, in the majority of the cases where you can't do this it is because there is a lack of crit chance, crit bonus/potency, your primary stat, having spells and buffs mastered etc.

So at what point will crit chance be called the arbitrary gear score, requiring those that require adorning 24 points or more worth of crit chance to remain effective?

I just want to lay it out there that I myself struggled for a long time in a guild that was constantly recruiting and regearing because of attrition (caused by MANY different reasons), moved to a new guild which was a very tough decision and shortly after that that guild fell to being able to field 18 players on a good night, we merged with another in the same boat and now have extras on the roster plus a healthy array of alts.

I am not a guild leader, would never want to be, don't envy it at all. I know you are not of the mindset that what I am saying here is now an artificial block Atan, but you know that there are others that are and after enough failure at wanting to do end game content what I am stating will be the next item up for bids on the chopping block.

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