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Old 10-17-2014, 06:26 PM   #31
Tylia

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I have to disagree with the bolded and underlined portion of your post.. how is having to work to kill a mob not "working for it", but simply clicking a few times on a harmless stationary node "is"? What makes combat a "hand it to me" action? Why would it be SO TERRIBLE to have the same small % chance of harvesting one of these shards added to the loot table of boss mobs or mission crates? Why would that be an unacceptable way for someone who loves to do that sort of thing, but detests harvesting, to spend their time chasing these elusive rares? What is wrong with a 0.08% (or what ever the harvest chance is for them) to be added to the drop table or crate table? That would make both sides of the argument happy and result in a much more harmonious game environment. Wink

As for your idea that "no one in a guild is going to sell the rares.. wrong. I have already sold 4 foundations that I have no use for, because if I have to spend MY time harvesting these things, I will certainly NOT be handing them out to someone else. Even if I had obtained them through killing mobs, I would still not be handing them out. Wink
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Old 10-17-2014, 06:44 PM   #32
Vainamoinen

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No one needs to or has to harvest for 20+ hours a week, Some people might and I wish them all of the best. But that is not a requirement for harvesting the ultra-rares. Yes, they are indeed hard to get and you may have to harvest a lot to get one. You also may not have to harvest much at all to get one. And finally, you can always buy them from someone.

Too expensive you say? Sure they are definitely pretty pricey. Right now. The prices of these rares have fluctuated fairly significantly on Unrest in the week they've been available (the T10's at least). From almost 6K or so for foundations to about half of that more recently (even less). Shards actually seemed to climb from about 1K at first up to about 2K or so now (these are rough averages from my glances at the broker). Regardless of the absolute prices, we can see that things are pretty variable right now. I would hazard to guess the process will fall as well. Drastically? I dunno. Right now, there are a select few willing to buy them at the prices they are going for and as more of them get on the market, under-cutting will happen.

I think the thing here is to exhibit some patience and see how it all pans out. There are big, nasty numbers flying around that people are using to try to prove various points that are likely not indicative of what is going on in a more general sense.
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:28 PM   #33
Arieste

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It's nto about "this one time, the first node gave me one!". It's about averages. Multiple people report that ON AVERAGE it's taking 5-10 hours of non-stop harvesting in an area with quick respawns and no competition in order to produce one such rare.

The 20+ hour estimate is basically from taking the 5-10 number and assuming that you're going to have (quite a bit) of competition for the top tier resources. Is it 100% correct? No. But it's fairly representative.

You say - people will harvest, prices will go down. This assumed that someone DOES harvest for the 20 hours required. Sure, it's not me, it's Bob the Casual Player. (I am not sure how Bob the Casual Player has 10x the time that i do to harvest, but we'll elave that argument alone.) So Bob has spent 20 hours harvesting. He has unearthed a rare! Yay! Payday!

But.. you're saying.. prices will go down! Many rares will apear! Deflation! So now, the overall assumption is that Bob the Casual Player is going to spend 20 hours harvesting and then sell me the rare for 100p. Or 300p. Whatever, some reasonable number.

It's pretty much mutually exclusive: if it's going to take 20 hours, then rares are going to have sell at massively high prices. If the rares are NOT going to sell at massively high prices, then no one is going to bother harvesting for 20 hours. You can't have both.
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Old 10-17-2014, 09:54 PM   #34
Vainamoinen

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Your 20 hour "stat" is completely arbitrary and based on a handful of reports with some magical equation stuck on the end to get 20 hours. And then you repeat 20 hours enough that maybe it will eventually be a meaningful number. It isn't.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:23 PM   #35
Errrorr

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30 Rares in about 30 hours of harvesting myself this past week.

RNG is fun.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:37 PM   #36
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It's amusing to watch though. People who are having the worst results (under unknown conditions) are complaining. Others are picking up their complaints as 'average', assuming it will be ever worse in reality, and extrapolating out horrible numbers. Anyone with numbers any better, is written off as being born under a lucky star, loved by the RNG, and thus irrelevant. It's amazing what the 'average' becomes when you throw out everyone except the worst reported result..

Nonstop, heads down harvesting, I'm averaging a little worse than 1 prismatic every hour. A little worse than 1 prismatic every 1000 pulls. I'll round up the exact numbers after my next stretch of harvesting is completed. I'm in full harvesting gear, and yes I realize that may not help, but I have it, so why not wear it.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:48 PM   #37
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A little dig through my log files for the times I've harvested this week (on my main, didn't bother searching my alts logs for when I want to be Off the radar)

**Edit** Apologies for the ****ing smilies... sigh.


(1413026057)[Sat Oct 11 12:14:17 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413038873)[Sat Oct 11 15:47:53 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM -1144846703 -1695055902Tonguerismatic Foundation/a
(1413065016)[Sat Oct 11 23:03:36 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413066065)[Sat Oct 11 23:21:05 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413069683)[Sun Oct 12 00:21:23 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413108653)[Sun Oct 12 11:10:53 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM -1144846703 -1695055902Tonguerismatic Foundation/a
(1413072901)[Sun Oct 12 01:15:01 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413113290)[Sun Oct 12 12:28:10 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413118121)[Sun Oct 12 13:48:41 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM -1144846703 -1695055902Tonguerismatic Foundation/a
(1413120000)[Sun Oct 12 14:20:00 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM -1144846703 -1695055902Tonguerismatic Foundation/a
(1413139754)[Sun Oct 12 19:49:14 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413145270)[Sun Oct 12 21:21:10 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413146654)[Sun Oct 12 21:44:14 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413410461)[Wed Oct 15 23:01:01 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM -1144846703 -1695055902Tonguerismatic Foundation/a
(1413481028)[Thu Oct 16 18:37:08 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413543546)[Fri Oct 17 11:59:06 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM -1144846703 -1695055902Tonguerismatic Foundation/a
(1413544922)[Fri Oct 17 12:22:02 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM -1144846703 -1695055902Tonguerismatic Foundation/a
(1413545160)[Fri Oct 17 12:26:00 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413546777)[Fri Oct 17 12:52:57 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM 520707503 1044112126Tonguerismatic Spellshard/a
(1413547057)[Fri Oct 17 12:57:37 2014] You acquire 1 aITEM -1144846703 -1695055902Tonguerismatic Foundation/a

Imo harvesting gear does help, I've noticed a big difference between rare rate from a toon wearing 620+ Harvest stats, to one wearing 485.

At the end of the day its RNG, and you can always out stat a RNG by having more rolls. Aka - Harvest faster, quicker, and more often, with less down time between nodes.
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Old 10-18-2014, 12:36 AM   #38
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You might care if the 96-100 Masters are also ultra-rare and get used up to make the grand masters, thus never seeing the light of broker. As I see it we will have 3 options to get a new spell mastered if this is the case-
1)We are stuck at expert and upgrade using the spell researcher which will take a very long time for all spells.
2) Spend a mountain of plat to outbid a master from someone/everyone who wants it to make a GM
3) SC SC SC

I just hope the rares to make the experts are within the budget of casual players...
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Old 10-18-2014, 12:39 AM   #39
Arieste

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people were reporting various numbers between 5 and 10. I personally went and validated this by harvesting for 7 straight hours in a place with nearly instance respawn - with less than 3 seconds downtime between nodes - and with zero competition for said nodes. In those 7 hours, i got nothing. I had the majority of harvesting gear on. This to me validated what several other people reported - both random people on forums as well as my own quite reliable guildmates. 20 hours is a random extapolation, but if you want a more scientific explanation.. on live, i get a node every 2-3 seconds. can say 5 seconds for sake of round numbers. In beta, i find a node (assuming no direct competition) every 30-45 seconds. let's say 30. that is 6x the amount of time to get the same number of nodes on beta as on live. so if live = 7 hours, then beta = 7x6 = 42 hours. Unless rates change on beta or as Errorr reports based on having really high skill values.

Is it scientific? Not really. If you'd like to provide more scientific testing please do so. If you're going to do some testing, please do it on beta, where it's tested on the REAL node distribution.
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Old 10-18-2014, 12:47 AM   #40
Ynnek

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Can you clarify? What's different in the T10 node distribution on Beta and Live that makes gathering statistics on Beta more valuable?
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Old 10-18-2014, 12:49 AM   #41
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for t10 nothing. but i've been trying to apply t10 testing (which i did to live) to eventual rate of t11 rares. i mean, i couldn't care less about the rate for t10 stuff, but i wasn't going to spend an entire day harvesting on beta for stuff i coudln't even keep.
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Old 10-18-2014, 12:57 AM   #42
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Whoops, I also didn't notice this thread was in the Beta forums. I'll confine my T10 results to the other thread full of people ranting in the Live forums about T10 Rares. BigGrin

The Beta thread is best used for things new in the Beta, such as T11's and 96+ GM's...
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Old 10-18-2014, 12:57 AM   #43
Arieste

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And just to clarify - IF the rate of gain is as Error reports and you get one of these approx once an hour, then i have absolutely no complaints. That's a good and fair rate of gain. Despite it still being terribly boring, I can definitely find the time and mental stamina to harvest for one hour for each one of my GMs.
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:29 PM   #44
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Mute point anyways,

Super rare harvests ? BAH Humbug that's not going to be as hard as getting the ruddy masters to drop and good luck buying ANY under 500 plat
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Old 10-19-2014, 06:58 AM   #45
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lol who harvets for 8 hours on a weekend, get a life!
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:20 PM   #46
Kraeref

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I was harvesting in test zones for TS sig questline. Not even a simple rare dropped. I guess they are not in yet
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:36 AM   #47
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The 'regular' rares are definitely in beta. I haven't made any attempt at a serious harvest session on beta for grandmaster rares... I don't think I could take harvesting 4 hrs to get a grandmaster rare (on beta) knowing it's going to 'poof' Tongue
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:31 PM   #48
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I made 3200p while watching the nascar race. lol
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:43 AM   #49
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Calling something "super-rare that only uber players should have" is completely moot when they put in a mechanic that literally hands it to you, if you wait X amount of days. Sure it'll take some time to research all of the GM's, but its an option that requires nothing more than 2 button clicks. Wow, real rare, and super hard to get. They shouldn't take as long to get by harvesting as it would by research (considering you dont even have to play the game to get it this way.)
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:53 AM   #50
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Personally, I'm fine with the rate the way it is. People will see a difference by maxing out their harvesting skills and bumping up their bountiful harvest chance. I think I was running around with 705 fishing, 665 mining, and 655 to the rest, with 66% bountiful, and was seeing rares in the top tier zones every couple of hours (on average). Of course, when the chances are as low as they are, you will see examples of apparent RNG streakiness, in both directions.

If you don't have the patience to harvest them, then just keep an eye on the broker. Prices on my server have been falling daily, and are now approaching 1k. Expectation would be that the downwards trend will continue, since it is still early days.

In other news, someone in my guild did bountiful harvest 2 prismatic foundations off the same harvest.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:17 PM   #51
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Yep, can confirm this. Prior to the GM spell mats being added to the game, Black Star Sapphire's were ~30p each, Bubinga Lumber was up to ~15p each for a week or two, and Tungsten Ore was ~5p. The other day, I bought a bunch of each for 75g-1p each. Great for people like me (decorators or people making new alts), but this has to kind of suck for people who harvested and sold rares for plat.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:00 AM   #52
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1,800 plat on Guk

Guess we need more harvest bots over here Roll Eyes
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:44 AM   #53
Anunnaki

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The prices are relatively stable over on AB it seems, they seem to trend right around 1500p give or take. The one thing I did notice is that the market for regular rares (Black Star Sapphire, Tungsten Ore, etc) has completely tanked.
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