The Great Tank Lie - Page 7

Drulak · 10-27-2005, 01:52 PM

Gaige wrote:

Drulak wrote:

(PS Gaige , i have started a Monk now , so knowing my luck when i hit 50 , Monks will be nerfed to death - then we see how you like it I will have been there before , so will be water off my back by then

We've already been nerfed, a few times. Oh, and we spent months unable to perform our role. So its already water off my back too. I hope we do get nerfed honestly, so people like you will quit playing monks. I can't stand FOTM players.

Your Holier than thou attitude really makes me laugh sometimes Gaige , if only you were not such ag ignorant poster. FOTM players - hmm lets look at this , i was more than happy with my Guardian Until months and months of campaigning and Lies spread by yourself got my beloved class nerfed to hell.

I would not be a monk if you had not done this. So Now i have rolled a monk , as the guardian is a totally boring and useless class to play now , but i still wanted to play EQ2 - so FOTM - i think not , more a need to play a class that wasn't Borked.

I hope you get nerfed to and guards get fixed , so that i can play my initial choice in tank again. But that won't happen while you continue to lie to the developers.

Nemi · 10-27-2005, 02:13 PM

MrDizzi wrote:
Gaige i have 2 small points id like to add here:

1) Just because EQ2 is a new game doesnt excuse anything.

Yes it does.

EQ2 is a game. EQ2 may not be EQ1. But its based upon it. As EQ1 was based upon classic d&d style rpgs.

I believe it was actually based on Diku Mud. D&D and EQ share a fantasy setting, thats about it otherwise they are quite different.

People who assume it should be identical to EQ1 are missing the point of "New and Better". Likewise people who assume it has no similarites and therefore will suffer similar pitfalls if they do certain things have their heads buried in the sand.

EQ2 has stated from the beginning it was aimed at a different market to EQ1 (one reason they didn't close down EQ1 when EQ2 came out). EQ2 has stated from the beginning they have set the game in the same lore and background, but at that point the similarities end. The simple fact of Monks being Fighters and not Scouts would support the this declaration.

2) You still havnt admitted that your equation is a lie, neither have you dealt directly with the issue on this thread. If no other fighter could tank pre lu13 how is it so many of them did?

I have already stated what encounters required a Guardian and that noone but Guardians have tanked it on my server. You have yet to prove this 'lie' you believe. A simple link to a monk/bruiser/paladin/shadowknight/berseker tanking all of these encounters will do it.

You can't tho, because it didn't happen and even if it did, having Guardians tank 99% of raids and 2 of the other 5 subclasses tanking 1% still leads to a broken game.

Grumpy_Warrior_01 · 10-27-2005, 02:26 PM

Confound it! Where did I put that ledger? It must be around here somewhere.

MrDiz · 10-27-2005, 02:31 PM

1) That doesnt mean comparisons cant be made between other games or that if they do the opinion is automatically wrong. Only fools thing there are no lessons to be learned from history.2) We have proved it a thousand times over Nemi. Non Guardians raided and tanked for raids before lu13. They tanked for groups before LU13. They tanked for trios and duos before lu13. Non guardians TANKED all the time. Every minute of every hour that the servers were up there were lots of NON-guardians out there tanking a variety of situations. To say otherwise isnt just lying, its idiocy in face of what everyone who has ever actually played the game has seen and experienced.Perhaps there is going to be one day an encounter that one of the tanks cannot tank. Maybe Nagafen will only be doable by a lvl 100 guardian. Does that mean noone else is a viable tank? Does that one encounter define the entire game for you? The one encounter that is 0.001 % of the content of eq2? I could probably find certain encounters where a guardian could not solo something a monk could. Did it mean a guardian could not solo at all?The Gaige Equation is a lie. You know it. We know it. Sony knows it now. Each reply you bump this post with reinforces the utter stupidity of the 'no one else could possibly tank' argument SMILEY

Nemi · 10-27-2005, 02:36 PM

Drulak wrote:

I would not be a monk if you had not done this. So Now i have rolled a monk , as the guardian is a totally boring and useless class to play now , but i still wanted to play EQ2 - so FOTM - i think not , more a need to play a class that wasn't Borked.

Guardians have always been boring class to play. They never had fun skills or unique abilities, so why all of a sudden are people complaining? Oh thats right, because PreLU13 they were supreme.

Its not the class thats the problem, its the players that chose the class purely because they thought they were going to be uber, when uber was never part of this game design.

I hope you get nerfed to and guards get fixed , so that i can play my initial choice in tank again. But that won't happen while you continue to lie to the developers.

Will they make changes to a Guardian? Hope so. Will they make them supreme? No.

MrDiz · 10-27-2005, 02:51 PM

Nemi wrote:Its not the class thats the problem, its the players that chose the class purely because they thought they were going to be uber,

Ive met very few 'uber' minded guardians in game. On the contrary the ones with the DPS parsers and spamming the guil chat with how uber their gear is are usually the more DPS oriented fighters. I have never seen a guardian say "I deserve to be uber!". Ive never seen them demand no other fighters be allowed to tank. Ive never seen them even complain about the fact that other classes could solo or dps etc. They didnt want it all (like you). They picked a pure and simple class. Focused. And yet you come here and insult their character and personality. You come to their boards for whatever agenda you have and insult, flame and otherwise annoy the guardian communty this board services. And you do so by blatantly lying and name calling (No I havnt forgotten the 'Mr Drivel' comment).I know this board isnt supposed to be personal, but youre an unpleasant small minded little person Nemi. Please leave our forum, because you really are not welcome.

RafaelSmith · 10-27-2005, 05:36 PM

Gaige wrote:
Oh, and we spent months unable to perform our role.

Arrg, your such a egocentric, hypocritical dip[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] its beyond annoying. "Unable to perform your role?" Thats BS and you know it. That has about as much validity as a Guardian claiming they cant perform their role today. Pre and Post LU13 ALL FIGHTERS COULD/CAN PEFORM THEIR ROLE. Some better than others. The only thing that changed is who that "some" is.

Message Edited by RafaelSmith on 10-27-2005 06:37 AM

Dart · 10-27-2005, 06:35 PM

Styker wrote:

This thread turned into another " waaaa mommy i hate SoE for making other fighter classes up to par with us on tanking waaaaa " Im soooo sorry that SoE took yall off your Godly pedistal .......... Im so sorry that they made taunting harder for tanks.... But ill put you up on some game thou... A Guard is still our raid MT ( 2 of them are as a matter of fact ) Yes they aren't invincible now like they were before but we learned to adapt ...... maybe yall should too...

Stop asking for things like " I want guards to be like before LU 13" because you will NEVER GET IT , Ask for something meaningful for your class like your Niche to be fixed and working correctly.... ( Protection skills , etc etc ) Only thing i can agree is that they need to remove resists from taunts....

If you would even stop and read a small snipit of the these posts by guardians, you might realize that they are not asking to be reverted back to Pre LU13. I am not going to go into detail what the problems are, but you might consider not taking the lazy approach by using selective reading and drawing baseless conclusions. Ignorance is bliss eh?

Cleft notes for the reading impared:

Fix utility line to work or have some function more than .01% of the time, is a common theme here

If tanks are to be equal, then I think it is only fair that DPS is equal too.

Please post why you think either of the two above items should not be address, other wise [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], move on and find some other board to troll, kk thnx

Nemi · 10-27-2005, 08:22 PM

Darton wrote:

If you would even stop and read a small snipit of the these posts by guardians, you might realize that they are not asking to be reverted back to Pre LU13. I am not going to go into detail what the problems are, but you might consider not taking the lazy approach by using selective reading and drawing baseless conclusions. Ignorance is bliss eh?

True, but MrDizzi and friends are asking for exactly that. He wants Guardians to be the 'best' and 'pure' tank. He doesn't want utility fixed, he doesn't want DPS adjusted. He just wants to be the best tank.

Cleft notes for the reading impared:

Fix utility line to work or have some function more than .01% of the time, is a common theme here

Agreed. There are not sufficient danger points during normal grinding that make the Guardian's utility line particularly valuable. However, on a raid they are extremely valuable which will guarantee a Guardian in the MT group (if they are not MT).

If tanks are to be equal, then I think it is only fair that DPS is equal too.

Agreed in principle but you have to also weight that against group utility. Tanking should be equal and then DPS+Utility should be equal, not necessarily identical like Tanking.

Please post why you think either of the two above items should not be address, other wise [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], move on and find some other board to troll, kk thnx

If you bothered to read Gaige's post or most other monks, we're not arguing to keep Guardians down, we're arguing against those that want to return Guardians to the N#1 spot with everyone else a distant second.

Nemi · 10-27-2005, 08:30 PM

MrDizzi wrote:

Ive met very few 'uber' minded guardians in game.

You're a hoot MrDizzi. I'm talking about YOU and friends. You are the guys that are hung up on being uber. You cannot accept 5 subclasses being equal to you in tanking.

On the contrary the ones with the DPS parsers and spamming the guil chat with how uber their gear is are usually the more DPS oriented fighters. I have never seen a guardian say "I deserve to be uber!".

Strange, I swore I had an argument in another thread with you where you stated you wanted to be the best and was [Removed for Content] off because your not? Shall I link it?

Ive never seen them demand no other fighters be allowed to tank. Ive never seen them even complain about the fact that other classes could solo or dps etc. They didnt want it all (like you).

Ooh that old switch the argument to me routine eh? Not falling for that one.

They picked a pure and simple class.

So what is so simple about Guardians that Monks are complex? What exactly is so tricky and different tanking with a monk than a Guardian? Nothing.

And yet you come here and insult their character and personality. You come to their boards for whatever agenda you have and insult, flame and otherwise annoy the guardian communty this board services. And you do so by blatantly lying and name calling (No I havnt forgotten the 'Mr Drivel' comment).

Excellent, you do spout drivel. You're doing it now. Am I rude to you? Yep, because you argue for something that is blatantly against the vision and direction of this game. You seek to put yourself above 5 other subclasses. You do this with full knowledge you're only hanging around till Vangaurd comes out. So you want to break the archetype system for your selfish pursuit.

I know this board isnt supposed to be personal, but youre an unpleasant small minded little person Nemi. Please leave our forum, because you really are not welcome.

You say I insult character and personality - Pot calling the kettle black eh? If you can't handle me arguing against your selfish desires to put Guardians above everyone else, tough. Hey, if you change your argument from wanting to be the best and instead actually ask for utility and dps to be balanced then I'll support you. Until then I'm your opponent. Get used to it.

Starwind · 10-27-2005, 09:47 PM

Nemi wrote:

Ive never seen them demand no other fighters be allowed to tank. Ive never seen them even complain about the fact that other classes could solo or dps etc. They didnt want it all (like you).
Ooh that old switch the argument to me routine eh? Not falling for that one.

They picked a pure and simple class.

So what is so simple about Guardians that Monks are complex? What exactly is so tricky and different tanking with a monk than a Guardian? Nothing.

And yet you come here and insult their character and personality. You come to their boards for whatever agenda you have and insult, flame and otherwise annoy the guardian communty this board services. And you do so by blatantly lying and name calling (No I havnt forgotten the 'Mr Drivel' comment).

Excellent, you do spout drivel. You're doing it now. Am I rude to you? Yep, because you argue for something that is blatantly against the vision and direction of this game. You seek to put yourself above 5 other subclasses. You do this with full knowledge you're only hanging around till Vangaurd comes out. So you want to break the archetype system for your selfish pursuit.

I know this board isnt supposed to be personal, but youre an unpleasant small minded little person Nemi. Please leave our forum, because you really are not welcome.

You say I insult character and personality - Pot calling the kettle black eh? If you can't handle me arguing against your selfish desires to put Guardians above everyone else, tough. Hey, if you change your argument from wanting to be the best and instead actually ask for utility and dps to be balanced then I'll support you. Until then I'm your opponent. Get used to it.

1.) You do come here asking for it all. Guardians could tank. Plain and simple, they held aggro and took damage. You did that too, but not as well because you can deal damage and have utility. Now you take damage as equally well as they do, yet you don't want to lose your damage or utility to be able to.

2.) Monks serve more than one function in this game, from what I hear. They can solo, tank, and do DPS in a group. Guardians just tank.

3.) I'm oh so sure that you're privvy to "The Vision" of this game. I'm sure the developers inform you of everything they do, and exactly why they did it. Actually no, you probably don't have the foggiest idea of what their vision for this game is. They probably don't even know what their vision for the game is, because it's not a sole developer working on it. It's an entire team of Dev's who no doubt all have varying opinions on what is right or wrong to do in a certain situation, or what should or shouldn't be added.

And, he's breaking the archetype system for his selfish pursuit, eh? What do you call what you and Gaige did before LU13? Everyone else but a few people like you, who probably had no idea how to play their characters, were happy with the game. Yet you whined and cried and screamed for the nerf bat, so when the combat update hit, you utterly destroyed a class.

4.) As I quoted earlier, son. "You called down the Thunder, now reap the Whirlwind." Or in other tearms, you reap what you sowe, or you've made your bed, now lie in it.

You've brought any of their hostility or bitterness on yourselves, because you two were the ones yelling the loudest for what happened.

Message Edited by Starwind87 on 10-27-2005 12:49 PM

MrDiz · 10-27-2005, 10:01 PM

Nemi, please keep bumping my post SMILEY

Nemi · 10-27-2005, 10:16 PM

Starwind87 wrote:

1.) You do come here asking for it all. Guardians could tank. Plain and simple, they held aggro and took damage. You did that too, but not as well because you can deal damage and have utility. Now you take damage as equally well as they do, yet you don't want to lose your damage or utility to be able to.

I don't come here asking for anything. I come here to stop people like MrDrivel starting campaigns to put Guardians supreme above every other subclass. He doesn't want balance, he doesn't want utility fixed, he doesn't want DPS fixed. He simply wants to be the 'best' and 'pure' tank which isn't going ot happen.

2.) Monks serve more than one function in this game, from what I hear. They can solo, tank, and do DPS in a group. Guardians just tank.

You hear wrong. Our function is tanking, if we're not doing that we're a third rate DPS class only slightly better than Guardians. Do Monks DPS need to go down? Perhaps, or perhaps Guardians need to come up.

3.) I'm oh so sure that you're privvy to "The Vision" of this game. I'm sure the developers inform you of everything they do, and exactly why they did it.

You know they do. They tell you as well. It's in the FAQ's stickied. Its in the patch notes. Its in all the multitude of posts regarding the Combat Revamp and why they did it.

Actually no, you probably don't have the foggiest idea of what their vision for this game is. They probably don't even know what their vision for the game is, because it's not a sole developer working on it. It's an entire team of Dev's who no doubt all have varying opinions on what is right or wrong to do in a certain situation, or what should or shouldn't be added.

Do the details matter when we're talking about fundamentals? The fundamentals is what MrDizzi and I are arguing about. He believes Guardians should be ranked above everyone else in the archetype role. I believe they should be ranked equal. That does not mean I don't think Guardians are fine as is: Utility and DPS is something for Guardians to ask for, want tanking ability above everyone else is breaking the archetype.

And, he's breaking the archetype system for his selfish pursuit, eh? What do you call what you and Gaige did before LU13?

Monks couldn't tank. We demanded SoE fulfil what they promised and allowed Monks to tank on an even footing with plates. That's all we did. We never asked for Guardians to be nerfed, we asked for Monks to be equal. SoE did the rest.

Everyone else but a few people like you, who probably had no idea how to play their characters, were happy with the game. Yet you whined and cried and screamed for the nerf bat, so when the combat update hit, you utterly destroyed a class.

Nonsense, don't bite into MrDrivels rhetorical. Search my posts. I never asked for a Guardian nerf. Last time I looked I wasn't on the payroll for SoE as a programmer, so I don't see how you attribute the Guardian problems post revamp to me. I asked for balance tanking and we got it. It's not my fault Guardians chose to ignore the revamp.

All Guardians posted was 'We don't want utility, we don't want DPS' - Well guess what? SoE listened.

4.) As I quoted earlier, son. "You called down the Thunder, now reap the Whirlwind." Or in other tearms, you reap what you sowe, or you've made your bed, now lie in it.

Well to be meteorogically correct. Whirlwinds do not come from thunder. So your quote is assinine at best. My bed is comfortable, its Guardians that are whining. I'd be happy to extend a helping hand if they ask for Utility or DPS instead of tanking ability.

You've brought any of their hostility or bitterness on yourselves, because you two were the ones yelling the loudest for what happened.

Those who are hostile or bitter are the ones that fail to accept the archetype system, and frankly I could care less about them - They would only kill this game if they got their way. I'm sure Vanguard will be a better fit for them.

Message Edited by Starwind87 on 10-27-200512:49 PM

Nemi · 10-27-2005, 10:17 PM

Np. The more people realise how idiotic you are the better.

MrDiz · 10-27-2005, 10:35 PM

Nemi wrote:
Np. The more people realise how idiotic you are the better.

Tell me Nemi, which of these encounter types was impossible lu13 without a guardian tanking:

1) Raids

2) Nameds

3) Exp groups

4) Quest groups

5) Trios

6) Duos

7) All of the above because guardian was the only viable tank (The Gaige Equation)

Message Edited by MrDizzi on 10-27-2005 11:37 AM

10-27-2005, 01:52 PM	#181
Drulak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 234	Gaige wrote: Drulak wrote: (PS Gaige , i have started a Monk now , so knowing my luck when i hit 50 , Monks will be nerfed to death - then we see how you like it I will have been there before , so will be water off my back by then We've already been nerfed, a few times. Oh, and we spent months unable to perform our role. So its already water off my back too. I hope we do get nerfed honestly, so people like you will quit playing monks. I can't stand FOTM players. Your Holier than thou attitude really makes me laugh sometimes Gaige , if only you were not such ag ignorant poster. FOTM players - hmm lets look at this , i was more than happy with my Guardian Until months and months of campaigning and Lies spread by yourself got my beloved class nerfed to hell. I would not be a monk if you had not done this. So Now i have rolled a monk , as the guardian is a totally boring and useless class to play now , but i still wanted to play EQ2 - so FOTM - i think not , more a need to play a class that wasn't Borked. I hope you get nerfed to and guards get fixed , so that i can play my initial choice in tank again. But that won't happen while you continue to lie to the developers. __________________ Zobiex 90 Bezerker -EX-Guardian Cyan 42 EX-provisioner Drulakx 90Reinstated EX-Alchemist Tattood 38Reinstated EX-Monk Zobios 90 Warlock

10-27-2005, 02:13 PM	#182
Nemi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 603	MrDizzi wrote: Gaige i have 2 small points id like to add here: 1) Just because EQ2 is a new game doesnt excuse anything. Yes it does. EQ2 is a game. EQ2 may not be EQ1. But its based upon it. As EQ1 was based upon classic d&d style rpgs. I believe it was actually based on Diku Mud. D&D and EQ share a fantasy setting, thats about it otherwise they are quite different. People who assume it should be identical to EQ1 are missing the point of "New and Better". Likewise people who assume it has no similarites and therefore will suffer similar pitfalls if they do certain things have their heads buried in the sand. EQ2 has stated from the beginning it was aimed at a different market to EQ1 (one reason they didn't close down EQ1 when EQ2 came out). EQ2 has stated from the beginning they have set the game in the same lore and background, but at that point the similarities end. The simple fact of Monks being Fighters and not Scouts would support the this declaration. 2) You still havnt admitted that your equation is a lie, neither have you dealt directly with the issue on this thread. If no other fighter could tank pre lu13 how is it so many of them did? I have already stated what encounters required a Guardian and that noone but Guardians have tanked it on my server. You have yet to prove this 'lie' you believe. A simple link to a monk/bruiser/paladin/shadowknight/berseker tanking all of these encounters will do it. You can't tho, because it didn't happen and even if it did, having Guardians tank 99% of raids and 2 of the other 5 subclasses tanking 1% still leads to a broken game.

10-27-2005, 02:31 PM	#184
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	1) That doesnt mean comparisons cant be made between other games or that if they do the opinion is automatically wrong. Only fools thing there are no lessons to be learned from history.2) We have proved it a thousand times over Nemi. Non Guardians raided and tanked for raids before lu13. They tanked for groups before LU13. They tanked for trios and duos before lu13. Non guardians TANKED all the time. Every minute of every hour that the servers were up there were lots of NON-guardians out there tanking a variety of situations. To say otherwise isnt just lying, its idiocy in face of what everyone who has ever actually played the game has seen and experienced.Perhaps there is going to be one day an encounter that one of the tanks cannot tank. Maybe Nagafen will only be doable by a lvl 100 guardian. Does that mean noone else is a viable tank? Does that one encounter define the entire game for you? The one encounter that is 0.001 % of the content of eq2? I could probably find certain encounters where a guardian could not solo something a monk could. Did it mean a guardian could not solo at all?The Gaige Equation is a lie. You know it. We know it. Sony knows it now. Each reply you bump this post with reinforces the utter stupidity of the 'no one else could possibly tank' argument __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

10-27-2005, 02:36 PM	#185
Nemi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 603	Drulak wrote: I would not be a monk if you had not done this. So Now i have rolled a monk , as the guardian is a totally boring and useless class to play now , but i still wanted to play EQ2 - so FOTM - i think not , more a need to play a class that wasn't Borked. Guardians have always been boring class to play. They never had fun skills or unique abilities, so why all of a sudden are people complaining? Oh thats right, because PreLU13 they were supreme. Its not the class thats the problem, its the players that chose the class purely because they thought they were going to be uber, when uber was never part of this game design. I hope you get nerfed to and guards get fixed , so that i can play my initial choice in tank again. But that won't happen while you continue to lie to the developers. Will they make changes to a Guardian? Hope so. Will they make them supreme? No.

10-27-2005, 02:51 PM	#186
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	Nemi wrote:Its not the class thats the problem, its the players that chose the class purely because they thought they were going to be uber, Ive met very few 'uber' minded guardians in game. On the contrary the ones with the DPS parsers and spamming the guil chat with how uber their gear is are usually the more DPS oriented fighters. I have never seen a guardian say "I deserve to be uber!". Ive never seen them demand no other fighters be allowed to tank. Ive never seen them even complain about the fact that other classes could solo or dps etc. They didnt want it all (like you). They picked a pure and simple class. Focused. And yet you come here and insult their character and personality. You come to their boards for whatever agenda you have and insult, flame and otherwise annoy the guardian communty this board services. And you do so by blatantly lying and name calling (No I havnt forgotten the 'Mr Drivel' comment).I know this board isnt supposed to be personal, but youre an unpleasant small minded little person Nemi. Please leave our forum, because you really are not welcome. __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

10-27-2005, 02:26 PM	#183
Grumpy_Warrior_01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 528	Confound it! Where did I put that ledger? It must be around here somewhere.

10-27-2005, 05:36 PM	#187
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	Gaige wrote: Oh, and we spent months unable to perform our role. Arrg, your such a egocentric, hypocritical dip[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] its beyond annoying. "Unable to perform your role?" Thats BS and you know it. That has about as much validity as a Guardian claiming they cant perform their role today. Pre and Post LU13 ALL FIGHTERS COULD/CAN PEFORM THEIR ROLE. Some better than others. The only thing that changed is who that "some" is. Message Edited by RafaelSmith on 10-27-2005 06:37 AM __________________

10-27-2005, 06:35 PM	#188
Dart Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	Styker wrote: This thread turned into another " waaaa mommy i hate SoE for making other fighter classes up to par with us on tanking waaaaa " Im soooo sorry that SoE took yall off your Godly pedistal .......... Im so sorry that they made taunting harder for tanks.... But ill put you up on some game thou... A Guard is still our raid MT ( 2 of them are as a matter of fact ) Yes they aren't invincible now like they were before but we learned to adapt ...... maybe yall should too... Stop asking for things like " I want guards to be like before LU 13" because you will NEVER GET IT , Ask for something meaningful for your class like your Niche to be fixed and working correctly.... ( Protection skills , etc etc ) Only thing i can agree is that they need to remove resists from taunts.... If you would even stop and read a small snipit of the these posts by guardians, you might realize that they are not asking to be reverted back to Pre LU13. I am not going to go into detail what the problems are, but you might consider not taking the lazy approach by using selective reading and drawing baseless conclusions. Ignorance is bliss eh? Cleft notes for the reading impared: Fix utility line to work or have some function more than .01% of the time, is a common theme here If tanks are to be equal, then I think it is only fair that DPS is equal too. Please post why you think either of the two above items should not be address, other wise [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], move on and find some other board to troll, kk thnx __________________ Phinny - 68th Warlock of Permafrost Thunderfoot - 70th Bruiser Permafrost You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!" -Monty Python's Holy Grail-

10-27-2005, 08:22 PM	#189
Nemi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 603	Darton wrote: If you would even stop and read a small snipit of the these posts by guardians, you might realize that they are not asking to be reverted back to Pre LU13. I am not going to go into detail what the problems are, but you might consider not taking the lazy approach by using selective reading and drawing baseless conclusions. Ignorance is bliss eh? True, but MrDizzi and friends are asking for exactly that. He wants Guardians to be the 'best' and 'pure' tank. He doesn't want utility fixed, he doesn't want DPS adjusted. He just wants to be the best tank. Cleft notes for the reading impared: Fix utility line to work or have some function more than .01% of the time, is a common theme here Agreed. There are not sufficient danger points during normal grinding that make the Guardian's utility line particularly valuable. However, on a raid they are extremely valuable which will guarantee a Guardian in the MT group (if they are not MT). If tanks are to be equal, then I think it is only fair that DPS is equal too. Agreed in principle but you have to also weight that against group utility. Tanking should be equal and then DPS+Utility should be equal, not necessarily identical like Tanking. Please post why you think either of the two above items should not be address, other wise [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], move on and find some other board to troll, kk thnx If you bothered to read Gaige's post or most other monks, we're not arguing to keep Guardians down, we're arguing against those that want to return Guardians to the N#1 spot with everyone else a distant second.

10-27-2005, 08:30 PM	#190
Nemi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 603	MrDizzi wrote: Ive met very few 'uber' minded guardians in game. You're a hoot MrDizzi. I'm talking about YOU and friends. You are the guys that are hung up on being uber. You cannot accept 5 subclasses being equal to you in tanking. On the contrary the ones with the DPS parsers and spamming the guil chat with how uber their gear is are usually the more DPS oriented fighters. I have never seen a guardian say "I deserve to be uber!". Strange, I swore I had an argument in another thread with you where you stated you wanted to be the best and was [Removed for Content] off because your not? Shall I link it? Ive never seen them demand no other fighters be allowed to tank. Ive never seen them even complain about the fact that other classes could solo or dps etc. They didnt want it all (like you). Ooh that old switch the argument to me routine eh? Not falling for that one. They picked a pure and simple class. So what is so simple about Guardians that Monks are complex? What exactly is so tricky and different tanking with a monk than a Guardian? Nothing. And yet you come here and insult their character and personality. You come to their boards for whatever agenda you have and insult, flame and otherwise annoy the guardian communty this board services. And you do so by blatantly lying and name calling (No I havnt forgotten the 'Mr Drivel' comment). Excellent, you do spout drivel. You're doing it now. Am I rude to you? Yep, because you argue for something that is blatantly against the vision and direction of this game. You seek to put yourself above 5 other subclasses. You do this with full knowledge you're only hanging around till Vangaurd comes out. So you want to break the archetype system for your selfish pursuit. I know this board isnt supposed to be personal, but youre an unpleasant small minded little person Nemi. Please leave our forum, because you really are not welcome. You say I insult character and personality - Pot calling the kettle black eh? If you can't handle me arguing against your selfish desires to put Guardians above everyone else, tough. Hey, if you change your argument from wanting to be the best and instead actually ask for utility and dps to be balanced then I'll support you. Until then I'm your opponent. Get used to it.

10-27-2005, 09:47 PM	#191
Starwind Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Truth and Reconciliation; High Orbit - Sigma Octanus IV Posts: 29	Nemi wrote: Ive never seen them demand no other fighters be allowed to tank. Ive never seen them even complain about the fact that other classes could solo or dps etc. They didnt want it all (like you). Ooh that old switch the argument to me routine eh? Not falling for that one. They picked a pure and simple class. So what is so simple about Guardians that Monks are complex? What exactly is so tricky and different tanking with a monk than a Guardian? Nothing. And yet you come here and insult their character and personality. You come to their boards for whatever agenda you have and insult, flame and otherwise annoy the guardian communty this board services. And you do so by blatantly lying and name calling (No I havnt forgotten the 'Mr Drivel' comment). Excellent, you do spout drivel. You're doing it now. Am I rude to you? Yep, because you argue for something that is blatantly against the vision and direction of this game. You seek to put yourself above 5 other subclasses. You do this with full knowledge you're only hanging around till Vangaurd comes out. So you want to break the archetype system for your selfish pursuit. I know this board isnt supposed to be personal, but youre an unpleasant small minded little person Nemi. Please leave our forum, because you really are not welcome. You say I insult character and personality - Pot calling the kettle black eh? If you can't handle me arguing against your selfish desires to put Guardians above everyone else, tough. Hey, if you change your argument from wanting to be the best and instead actually ask for utility and dps to be balanced then I'll support you. Until then I'm your opponent. Get used to it. 1.) You do come here asking for it all. Guardians could tank. Plain and simple, they held aggro and took damage. You did that too, but not as well because you can deal damage and have utility. Now you take damage as equally well as they do, yet you don't want to lose your damage or utility to be able to. 2.) Monks serve more than one function in this game, from what I hear. They can solo, tank, and do DPS in a group. Guardians just tank. 3.) I'm oh so sure that you're privvy to "The Vision" of this game. I'm sure the developers inform you of everything they do, and exactly why they did it. Actually no, you probably don't have the foggiest idea of what their vision for this game is. They probably don't even know what their vision for the game is, because it's not a sole developer working on it. It's an entire team of Dev's who no doubt all have varying opinions on what is right or wrong to do in a certain situation, or what should or shouldn't be added. And, he's breaking the archetype system for his selfish pursuit, eh? What do you call what you and Gaige did before LU13? Everyone else but a few people like you, who probably had no idea how to play their characters, were happy with the game. Yet you whined and cried and screamed for the nerf bat, so when the combat update hit, you utterly destroyed a class. 4.) As I quoted earlier, son. "You called down the Thunder, now reap the Whirlwind." Or in other tearms, you reap what you sowe, or you've made your bed, now lie in it. You've brought any of their hostility or bitterness on yourselves, because you two were the ones yelling the loudest for what happened. Message Edited by Starwind87 on 10-27-2005 12:49 PM __________________ "You called down the Thunder, now reap the whirlwind." "Alcohol, my permanent accessory. Alcohol, a party-time neccessity. Alcohol, alternative to feelin' like yourself. Oh Alcohol, I still drink to your health." "Forget the godd*** lattee's, screw the rasberry icetea. A Malibu and Coke for you, a G and T for me."

10-27-2005, 10:01 PM	#192
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	Nemi, please keep bumping my post __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

10-27-2005, 10:16 PM	#193
Nemi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 603	Starwind87 wrote: 1.) You do come here asking for it all. Guardians could tank. Plain and simple, they held aggro and took damage. You did that too, but not as well because you can deal damage and have utility. Now you take damage as equally well as they do, yet you don't want to lose your damage or utility to be able to. I don't come here asking for anything. I come here to stop people like MrDrivel starting campaigns to put Guardians supreme above every other subclass. He doesn't want balance, he doesn't want utility fixed, he doesn't want DPS fixed. He simply wants to be the 'best' and 'pure' tank which isn't going ot happen. 2.) Monks serve more than one function in this game, from what I hear. They can solo, tank, and do DPS in a group. Guardians just tank. You hear wrong. Our function is tanking, if we're not doing that we're a third rate DPS class only slightly better than Guardians. Do Monks DPS need to go down? Perhaps, or perhaps Guardians need to come up. 3.) I'm oh so sure that you're privvy to "The Vision" of this game. I'm sure the developers inform you of everything they do, and exactly why they did it. You know they do. They tell you as well. It's in the FAQ's stickied. Its in the patch notes. Its in all the multitude of posts regarding the Combat Revamp and why they did it. Actually no, you probably don't have the foggiest idea of what their vision for this game is. They probably don't even know what their vision for the game is, because it's not a sole developer working on it. It's an entire team of Dev's who no doubt all have varying opinions on what is right or wrong to do in a certain situation, or what should or shouldn't be added. Do the details matter when we're talking about fundamentals? The fundamentals is what MrDizzi and I are arguing about. He believes Guardians should be ranked above everyone else in the archetype role. I believe they should be ranked equal. That does not mean I don't think Guardians are fine as is: Utility and DPS is something for Guardians to ask for, want tanking ability above everyone else is breaking the archetype. And, he's breaking the archetype system for his selfish pursuit, eh? What do you call what you and Gaige did before LU13? Monks couldn't tank. We demanded SoE fulfil what they promised and allowed Monks to tank on an even footing with plates. That's all we did. We never asked for Guardians to be nerfed, we asked for Monks to be equal. SoE did the rest. Everyone else but a few people like you, who probably had no idea how to play their characters, were happy with the game. Yet you whined and cried and screamed for the nerf bat, so when the combat update hit, you utterly destroyed a class. Nonsense, don't bite into MrDrivels rhetorical. Search my posts. I never asked for a Guardian nerf. Last time I looked I wasn't on the payroll for SoE as a programmer, so I don't see how you attribute the Guardian problems post revamp to me. I asked for balance tanking and we got it. It's not my fault Guardians chose to ignore the revamp. All Guardians posted was 'We don't want utility, we don't want DPS' - Well guess what? SoE listened. 4.) As I quoted earlier, son. "You called down the Thunder, now reap the Whirlwind." Or in other tearms, you reap what you sowe, or you've made your bed, now lie in it. Well to be meteorogically correct. Whirlwinds do not come from thunder. So your quote is assinine at best. My bed is comfortable, its Guardians that are whining. I'd be happy to extend a helping hand if they ask for Utility or DPS instead of tanking ability. You've brought any of their hostility or bitterness on yourselves, because you two were the ones yelling the loudest for what happened. Those who are hostile or bitter are the ones that fail to accept the archetype system, and frankly I could care less about them - They would only kill this game if they got their way. I'm sure Vanguard will be a better fit for them. Message Edited by Starwind87 on 10-27-200512:49 PM

10-27-2005, 10:17 PM	#194
Nemi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 603	Np. The more people realise how idiotic you are the better.

10-27-2005, 10:35 PM	#195
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	Nemi wrote: Np. The more people realise how idiotic you are the better. Tell me Nemi, which of these encounter types was impossible lu13 without a guardian tanking: 1) Raids 2) Nameds 3) Exp groups 4) Quest groups 5) Trios 6) Duos 7) All of the above because guardian was the only viable tank (The Gaige Equation) Message Edited by MrDizzi on 10-27-2005 11:37 AM __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )