Re: Dec 06 Test Notes - Leave Brawler FD Alone.

[Gnobrin]

FYI!The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07. ~Gnobrin!

[Kaleyen]

Thank you Gnobrin

[Meribor]

This calls for the Merriam-Webster Dictionary's Word of the Year for 2007:  w00t !!!!!Edited for spelling 

[Cusashorn]

Gnobrin wrote:

FYI!The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07. ~Gnobrin!

ALL HAIL GNOBRIN! DEFLECTOR OF THE APOCALYPSE!

[KBern]

Gnobrin wrote:

FYI!The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07. ~Gnobrin!

Thank you very much for letting us know.

[Junaru]

Hehe I just saw this and was posting it here.. You beat me too it.Thank you very much.

[CorpseGoddess]

Gnobrin wrote:

FYI!The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07. ~Gnobrin!

Yes, Virginia....there is a Santa Claus.

Thanks for the info, Gnobrin.

[kartikeya]

Denlron wrote:

Rarlin wrote:

kartikeya wrote:

Good grief, people.

I completely understand why you're angry, especially with all the other problems with brawlers, and all the other problems with the game period, but if you're going to harp on the devs for not being honest, don't twiddle around and pretend like this 'class defining feature' hasn't been abused out the freaking wazoo by everyone and their dog. It's fun, it's convenient, it gets you lots of money and some updates that other classes would need a group, sometimes an entire raid to accomplish, it lets you see stuff no one else would ever dream of trying to see on their own, and it's very, very cheesey and very obviously not the originally intended function of the ability (much like FD pulling in EQ1). And no, it doesn't take any skill, it takes the RNG not hating you.

All of that said, I EMPATHIZE. I know what it's like to have the rug pulled out from under you on a mechanic that was cheesey but nevertheless extremely important to your class and how it functioned *cough*meleeweaponprocsonbows*coughcoughcough*. On the bright side, at least a dev hasn't called you all exploiters yet, and folks haven't begun to pop up en masse to tell you that you should have peered into the future and KNOWN that this would be changed. Has anyone shown up to say the old 'this is not a NERF it's a BUG fix' line yet? 

As a side note though, comparing FD to invis or stealth is apples and oranges. Grab a stealth or invis totem sometime and try to run through, oh, just about any dungeon in existance from T6 onward. Double points for trying any raid zone. Heck, just take a look at how many see invis mobs the RoK overland zones have (though at least most of them make some sort of sense, generally being scout mobs). Monks don't even need to grab a totem, just fire up your own invis--anything that sees through that will also see through scout stealth. I wish they were comparable, but the truth is scouts haven't been able to 'scout' any kind of group content for years now. And I dunno if I misread the guy or not, but uh...no, stealth is not insta-recast, nor does the cooldown begin until after stealth has been dropped (that would be nice!). Stealth is pretty much exactly like how they're looking to change FD to, from my understanding. A toggle that doesn't refresh until it's toggled off.

Dear Devs: If you're looking to kill feign flopping, keep in mind all the OTHER issues that go along with if it's 'killed' in this way. Top of the list: getting 'stuck' under a mob that's not attacking you but won't leave you alone. This happens on climbing walls too, and it's really annoying. Happened to me tonight with a few guards--feigned successfully, guards sat on my 'dead' body and had a picnic or something, they would NOT move, which is essentially not a death saver, but a death delayer.

/agree

You sirs are both Morons with no understanding of Brawlers, game mechanics, or what you are talking about.

Yeah, so I'm thinking you didn't read anything I wrote there. *claps*

[Corydonn]

Gnobrin wrote:

FYI!The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07. ~Gnobrin!

Hallelujah!

[MrWolfie]

Good.

[Beogon]

Account uncanceled =)

[Supp]

I'm glad to hear this news, but at the same time I'm lukewarm to it for some reason.

I guess seeing this nerf provided for me the final justification for the cancellation of my both of my accounts. I was originally going to wait a couple of months before cancellation to verify things were as bad as I thought, but this nerf seemed to provide that verification right away. There are a sea of other problems that concern me, but this FD nerf and Fyreflight's insistance that chain and plate healers are intended to wear leather solidified any doubt that this game was on a downward spiral that I didnt want to participate in anymore. An "it was fun while it lasted" situation if you will.

But now I dont know what to think. Are they picking up the game's pieces? There seemed to be a reliable rumor that SOE execs specifically wanted this nerf. That sounded pretty dire to me, granted that's an alleged statement. I have seen one 30 to 50 page thread after another by brawlers begging for something to be changed or fixed, with nary a developer response. For this one to be fixed so expediently even though it was specifically requested by "on high", I am really really really suprised.

Could this herald the dawn of brawler forum consideration? Could there have been another reason why they conceeded? I won't be so conceited as to propose my account cancellations along with two others in this thread affected their decision. Did 500 accounts get cancelled in the last 2 days? Is it possible that Domino rolled a brawler and said "ahem?". I'll have to keep an eye on things.

[CorpseGoddess]

Supple wrote:

I'm glad to hear this news, but at the same time I'm lukewarm to it for some reason.

I guess seeing this nerf provided for me the final justification for the cancellation of my both of my accounts. I was originally going to wait a couple of months before cancellation to verify things were as bad as I thought, but nerf seemed to provide that verification right away. There are a sea of other problems that concern me, but this FD nerf and Fyreflight's insistance that chain and plate healers are intended to wear leather solidified any doubt that this game was on a downward spiral that I didnt want to participate in anymore. An "it was fun while it lasted" situation if you will.

But now I dont know what to think. Are they picking up the game's pieces? There seemed to be a reliable rumor that SOE execs specifically wanted this nerf. That sounded pretty dire to me, granted that's an alleged statement. I have seen one 30 to 50 page thread after another by brawlers begging for something to be changed or fixed, with nary a developer response. For this one to be fixed so expediently even though it was specifically requested by "on high", I am really really really suprised.

Could this herald the dawn of brawler forum consideration? Could there have been another reason why they conceeded? I won't be conceited as to propose my account cancellations along with two others in this thread affected their decision. Is it possible that Domino rolled a brawler and said "ahem?". I'll have to keep an eye on things.

I have to say I agree with you completely.  Also, my first thought honestly was "Yeah!  Let's keep steamrolling and try and get some of the *other* issues addressed now!".  But I figured that would come off as ungrateful, although why I should be grateful for having something returned that never should have been taken in the first place, I don't know.

 I'm feeling a bit like Benson in "Time Bandits", grovelling for a bit of attention from the Supreme Evil.  "Kill me, master!  Kill *me*!"

[Timaarit]

I had thought about canceling after I got my monk to 80 and saw that there really isn't any piece of gear that would have made me go after it with enthusiasm. The fact that they even thought about further nerfing brawlers like this pushed me over. There are other issues like a guardian out-DPSing my monk on raids with [Removed for Content] quested chain DPS-item pieces.I am not going to renew my subscription until they have fixed brawlers and prowed that they think other classes besides the ones they play themselves. The monk t4 raidzone weapon Fyreflyte is advertising in another forums is a great example. That dev is actually so incompetent or ignorant that he thinks the weapon is good for what it is. If they really have no clue as for how and no desire to make separate brawler weapons, then they should just copy a scout weapon, make it crushing, change any to hit bonuses as crushing and then give it some random brawler weapon look. That kind of lack of imagination would be far better than what they currently present. The trend for lack of brawler weapons/gear has been visible ever since Fallen Dynasty. EoF was a disaster for a raiding monk, the legendary armor set was great for a brawler but the fabled set was for soloers . I lost interest on raiding because there really wasn't anything beyond the chestpiece I wanted for my monk untill they changed it so that Mayongs Hammer could be DW'd.I just hope they dont feel like brawlers should be grateful for them not nerfing brawlers even further.Anyway, I doubt I'll be back unless something major happens in the staff of EQ2 devs and they actually start developing all the classes equally.

[Supp]

Oh dont get me wrong Timaarit. My plan is still to cancel my accounts, but I wont do it instantly now in a huff. As I said before, this nerf was icing on the cake for me. My main became my necro after enough brawler nerfing swept the game (I especially loved the one where they took away my dps buff. I swear if it werent for Close Mind I would have switched back to Monk long ago). But my brawler is still important to me to make money and assist my other characters. Again, my main issue is the lack of low T8 group instances, and this forced solo questing business. It's just that with none of these instances ingame and now no shiny farming, I was guaranteed to be poor again. And I simply could not have that, not after all the lovins Ive given this game. Right now, my plan is to see if for some reason I start enjoying the long hours of raiding to acquire gear that I wont make proper use of outside of raid. I'll doubt that'll happen though, so that's why cancellation still looms in the near future.

Pretty much, it seemed something like this...

EQ2 Dev Exec: Ok boys (and girls), the plan for Kunark is to ensure that Supple is poor. Ideas?

Dev Scrub 1: Well, he makes his money from soloing the Nest and Acadechism on multiple characters. We should have no equivalent in Kunark! Make sure all instances are high level and filled with triple ups!

Dev Scrub 2: And make as much notrade as possible!

EQ2 Dev Exec: Good idea, I can roll with that!

Dev Scrub 3: But WAIT!!

(Dev Team stares quizzically at Dev Scrub 3)

Dev Scrub 3: If we do nix the low T8 instances AND nerf XP grinding, we'll have to put in a ton of solo questing, maybe all the way to 80!

(Dev Team ponders this for a moment, but then remembers that creating quests is someone else's job!)

EQ2 Dev Exec: Ok, let's do it!

-----  Kunark launches and Supple is angered ! -----

------ Supple then whips out the old brawler standby, wrestling 100p in shinies via feigning his way through Sebilis -----

(Dev Team reconvenes to discover the error in judgment)

EQ2 Dev Exec: Ok boys (and girls), what happened? Someone's gonna pay for this and it's not gonna be me!

Dev Scrub 1: Wait! This only happened because his benched brawler could FD so effectively through Sebilis and knows how to play the market.

Dev Scrub 2: Um, excuse me? I was VERY careful to thickly FILL Sebilis with roaming ^^^s. AND I made many of the shiney spawn locations appear right at the feet of said ^^^s. It's not my fault.

EQ2 Dev Exec: Well apparently, he's able to get around all of your tricks, and insultingly doing it at L70. So fix it, or youre fired.

Dev Scrub 2: The only way to fix it would be to nerf FD, and that would aggravate the brawler community...

(Dev Team thinks on this for a moment, smiles and then laughs!)

EQ2: It's alright boys (and girls). Go ahead and nerf it and then claim it's for game streamlining.

(general laughing ensues)

[Arathy]

Thank you.

[Writer Cal]

Thank you!!! 

[smokedout]

well they say they will return Fd back too the way it was... thats good./dance

[Gnobrin]

Update of my previously given info!

The update to revert the Feign Death will not be on the 13th as I'd originally stated, but it shall be very soon.  If I hear more, I'll let you know!

~Gnobrin!

[Novusod]

We still don't know why "On High" wants this nerf. What is the plan for brawlers if we can't FD travel. I would be willing to trade FD for fixing other issues with the class. Lets see working avoidance or getting Zerker type dps would be a good trade off. Something also tells me the devs are still trying to pull a fast one on us by pushing it to live and then delaying any type of fix.

[Zabjade]

Thank you Wow we got a dev response! maybe we are not totally doomed for extinction after all. ^_^ We will understand if it takes some time, Bah I need to get my computer running 100% again anyway, it had a nasty virus that I admit is user error compiled with bad wording on the antivirus. See all we need is a little communication and we will be happy to talk it out! ^_^

[Snowdonia]

Glad we got there in the end. Cheers

[Kirstie]

Novusod wrote:

We still don't know why "On High" wants this nerf. What is the plan for brawlers if we can't FD travel. I would be willing to trade FD for fixing other issues with the class. Lets see working avoidance or getting Zerker type dps would be a good trade off. Something also tells me the devs are still trying to pull a fast one on us by pushing it to live and then delaying any type of fix.

The hotfix is currently planned for tomorrow morning at 7am PST (I just finished up the final touches) it should be on its way to test now.

- K

[KBern]

Kirstie wrote:

Novusod wrote:

We still don't know why "On High" wants this nerf. What is the plan for brawlers if we can't FD travel. I would be willing to trade FD for fixing other issues with the class. Lets see working avoidance or getting Zerker type dps would be a good trade off. Something also tells me the devs are still trying to pull a fast one on us by pushing it to live and then delaying any type of fix.

The hotfix is currently planned for tomorrow morning at 7am PST (I just finished up the final touches) it should be on its way to test now.

- K

Thank you.

[Junaru]

Novusod wrote:

I would be willing to trade FD for fixing other issues with the class.

Speak for yourself. Right now FD is the biggest issue with the Brawlers IMHO. It's taken one night of using it for me to realize I would not doubt stop playing my Monk if it stayed this way. Try springing traps in DT with the new FD. I've done trap springing in DT for as long as I can remember and never died till last night.

[Talathion]

The Only problem is FD bypasses things via using mobs aggro dropout timer.The best way to fix this would be to make FD Timer Start 3 seconds after you FD, not the full 10. ((3 seconds would fix it)), but seriously, 2 seconds would be very appropriate. ((because its still should be used as a solo utility ability.But it shouldnt let you drop down, get up, drop down, get up, pick up something, put up tsumani ((100% parry)), grab shiny, FD again.This also Stops the exploit where you can drag a player onto a mob, FD, move away from Player, FD again, Move away from Player FD Again, or kill people using Drag/FD with ^^^ mobs, finishing the players off. --  This also prevents brawlers from charming something, going to someone, FDing, breaking it, then FDing again. ((used with Charm items to kill other players so they can more easily farm)) ((commonly used by necromancers))

[Shareana]

Wow!  For a second there, I could hear Brawlers all over Norrath FD in panic *wink*Being that this is about patch notes from the end of 2006, I am going to lock this down to avoid confusion....