Prayer from a Nagafen player. (Dear God, please fix PvP.)

[Nemas Ravenor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0 Exactly

[Pinino-Lfg]

   I hope honestly they really listen to peoples pleas, ask the oldest people on nagafen and they will probably tell you that pvp was amazing in EoF, u had fame loss, token body drops, people out actually hunting in small groups or solo for thier fame and because of no writs, the players decided where the fights would be not the writ givers, immunity was almost no where to be found... pvp gear was alot more expensive aswell took 3 months of grinding for a piece of gear, was very rewarding when u actually recieved it....

I believe we hated pvp back then, thats is we hated some things about it, but we loved all of it at the same time.... the harder somthing is the better and more rewarding it is when you finally accomplish victory. bottom line. sure people will whine, but they will continue to play when you make things difficult it makes it more rewarding to win  and when you make it  easy for everyone with no loss of experience or fame and youve accomplished everything there is to accomplish it gets old real fast...

the same kind of feeling as uh playing on an emulated private server where you can summon any gear you want... its cool at begining equiping yourself as the best equiped character in the game, but you eventually realize that youve accomplished nothing everyone has what you have and you have no fear of losing it because it was gained so easy you can throw it away and find somthing new to play with...

the things we hated back then,  people 1v1, evacing when you poped up on track, geting hunted by a gank group while trying to hunt solo, the greys leeching fame hits so they could achieve high rank without any loss, no immunity safe spots at all you simply had 30 secs to prepare for being hunted again, this stuff made it enjoyable for some crazy psychotic reason,it gave you a thrill to the game, a worry in the back of your head, will i be ganked any second... yes when your camped at your spawn point it made you [Removed for Content] to lose 3 fame hits from groups griefing you or somthing but its better then godmode pvp , or zergfest pvp where you just sit there and continue to get your kill count up with no care wheather you die or not

I really hope a developer reads this.

 My friend who plays eq1 aswell as on project 1999  server (emulated eq1 pre expansions) and his friends stated they hate everquest aswell as eq2, but the one thing it had was the best pvp system they've ever seen, of course they only got to play in eof so of course its alot different now, but this definatly was the strongest point of the game in my opinion yalls pvp system was painfully difficult and amazing all at the same time...

[Heleptra]

Amen.

Me and thousends other players fully support you and stay behind your words on this.

Hartsia.

[Neskonlith]

Heleptra wrote:

Trust me on this, They will fix this and they are taking this issue wery serious.

 

"...this is sewiously sewious!  the lag is out of - " *thud*

...

So, any new progress on the lag? 

Would be nice to have "war" on open-pvp, instead of semi-capped-partially-open-BeeGees.

[Pinino-Lfg]

im gonna be optimistic about this and say for the most part that the people who effect change in everquest 2 are really looking into this and try and just be patient,

[Edgaard]

Pinino-Lfg wrote:

im gonna be optimistic about this and say for the most part that the people who effect change in everquest 2 are really looking into this and try and just be patient,

Fat chance ! Just sayin

[Shimonji]

First I have to applaud the OP for a well thought out and passionate post.

I fail to understand all those that say the server has to keep growing to be successful.  Lets do some simple math.

Monthy Fee $14.99. We will round this down to make it even easier.

Active accounts with a toon on Nagafen.  For arguments sake say 5000.

$14 multiplied by 5000 equals $70,000 a Month!!!!!!

Are you all telling me that a fluctuating population between 4500 and 5000 bringing in $63,000 to $70,000 a month is not enough to pay a couple good devs, bandwidth, power, storage and space to hold the equipment?

I know from personal expeirence that it does not cost that much to host equipement in some one else's data center let alone one that should be owned outright.

Anyone remember the Alternate Rules Server comment made not too long ago? Here is an idea.  Build a new server and hire a couple of devs with this incentive.

Create a PVP environment that will draw current PVP players from Nagafen and Vox.  Bonus is 20% of active players on the new server averaged over a quarter.

Anyone know any good devs that would like the potential to make about 40K in bonus per quarter?

[zyllith]

Shimonji wrote:

Are you all telling me that a fluctuating population between 4500 and 5000 bringing in $63,000 to $70,000 a month is not enough to pay a couple good devs, bandwidth, power, storage and space to hold the equipment?

I know from personal expeirence that it does not cost that much to host equipement in some one else's data center let alone one that should be owned outright.

Anyone remember the Alternate Rules Server comment made not too long ago? Here is an idea.  Build a new server and hire a couple of devs with this incentive.

Create a PVP environment that will draw current PVP players from Nagafen and Vox.  Bonus is 20% of active players on the new server averaged over a quarter.

Anyone know any good devs that would like the potential to make about 40K in bonus per quarter?

In Silicon Valley, as well as in San Diego, $63-70K per month is pocket change: that would pay for a 2K ft2 office, two dev's, an ISP connection, a couple of computers and the electricy to run them.

Based on what it costs in Silicon Valley for a moderate networked company (such as Slingbox) which is roughly comparable to the Nag server size (excluding the dev's cost) I would guess that SOE is burning about $450K per month on those fixed computing costs ...

As to the $40K bonus per quarter, well, that's nice and all but y'all need to head a little north with that number to attract serious talent -- surf on over to dice.com and browse around a bit in the Silicon Valley/ San Diego markets to see what some realistic numbers are ...

[Arieneth]

based on posts in this thread...no one really cares about devs. all we want a classic EQ2 server far away from Olihin. no need to pay devs to break content, ruin pvp and generaly [Removed for Content] us off.

reopen Venekor, load the old T7 code and pretend we don't exist!

[Shimonji]

zyllith wrote:

Shimonji wrote:

Are you all telling me that a fluctuating population between 4500 and 5000 bringing in $63,000 to $70,000 a month is not enough to pay a couple good devs, bandwidth, power, storage and space to hold the equipment?

I know from personal expeirence that it does not cost that much to host equipement in some one else's data center let alone one that should be owned outright.

Anyone remember the Alternate Rules Server comment made not too long ago? Here is an idea.  Build a new server and hire a couple of devs with this incentive.

Create a PVP environment that will draw current PVP players from Nagafen and Vox.  Bonus is 20% of active players on the new server averaged over a quarter.

Anyone know any good devs that would like the potential to make about 40K in bonus per quarter?

In Silicon Valley, as well as in San Diego, $63-70K per month is pocket change: that would pay for a 2K ft2 office, two dev's, an ISP connection, a couple of computers and the electricy to run them.

Based on what it costs in Silicon Valley for a moderate networked company (such as Slingbox) which is roughly comparable to the Nag server size (excluding the dev's cost) I would guess that SOE is burning about $450K per month on those fixed computing costs ...

As to the $40K bonus per quarter, well, that's nice and all but y'all need to head a little north with that number to attract serious talent -- surf on over to dice.com and browse around a bit in the Silicon Valley/ San Diego markets to see what some realistic numbers are ...

Come on.  I run a data center that has 17 racks full of equipment with redundant power and Internet connections and pay just under 40k a month. If they are spending 450K per month to run a single server, they need to fire a whole bunch of people.  And yes I understand that there is more infrastructure, but all that equipment has been paid for a thousand times over.

[Nemas Ravenor]

Arieneth@Nagafen wrote:

based on posts in this thread...no one really cares about devs. all we want a classic EQ2 server far away from Olihin. no need to pay devs to break content, ruin pvp and generaly [Removed for Content] us off.

reopen Venekor, load the old T7 code and pretend we don't exist

Please!

[Taldier]

Arieneth@Nagafen wrote:

based on posts in this thread...no one really cares about devs. all we want a classic EQ2 server far away from Olihin. no need to pay devs to break content, ruin pvp and generaly [Removed for Content] us off.

reopen Venekor, load the old T7 code and pretend we don't exist!

+1

Pvp servers dont need new content, we develop new content every time we engage each other in pvp.  We only need a functioning server.

[Agent2k]

Arieneth@Nagafen wrote:

based on posts in this thread...no one really cares about devs. all we want a classic EQ2 server far away from Olihin. no need to pay devs to break content, ruin pvp and generaly [Removed for Content] us off.

reopen Venekor, load the old T7 code and pretend we don't exist!

Easily the best and simpliest idea.

[YasikoSetsu]

Arieneth@Nagafen wrote:

based on posts in this thread...no one really cares about devs. all we want a classic EQ2 server far away from Olihin. no need to pay devs to break content, ruin pvp and generaly [Removed for Content] us off.

reopen Venekor, load the old T7 code and pretend we don't exist!

Epic +1.

[Pinino-Lfg]

Doubt they would do anything like that thats alot more work and upkeep then just making changes to pvp mechanic, gotta be somewhat realistic with ideas i figured.

[asaron]

token body drops are a major fail way too many people that have to gank  you could be stomping somone solo and low and behold a gank group shows up finishes them off loots chest your long fight was jsut deemed worthless  way too many kiddies that cant kill anyone without the herd for token body drops

[Pinino-Lfg]

if ur in a long fight with somone only you can loot the chest same goes with mobs, everyone else is locked from chest but you

[Nofro]

Nice post.  

I agree with most of the sentiments and come from a very similar background, although, I think the BGs in addition to the writ givers were the big downfall.

I hung it up in March 2010.

After 10 years of being a hardcore raider and PvP-er I quit and only check the forums every few months to see if there is a change.  I'm looking for a good alternative but this game just doesn't 'work' anymore.  

I'm leveling a toon to 80 in WoW (65 now) just to say I did it but that game is childsplay in comparison, although, it did maintained/take a lot of cool EQ1 game dynamics EQ2 bailed on.

So two steps back and hopeful one step forward at some point in the future.

V.

[Arieneth]

Pinino-Lfg wrote:

Doubt they would do anything like that thats alot more work and upkeep then just making changes to pvp mechanic, gotta be somewhat realistic with ideas i figured.

because loading old T7 code onto a server and turning it on is more work than developing code, testing it, breaking it and fixing it while breaking other things.

the upkeep would be far less than upkeep on the current servers. look at Nagafen...laggiest server in the entire game. all the gear with procs, among many other things, kills server performance. look at all the threads about it.

that didn't exist back in T7, or nowhere near as bad. the best gear possible didnt punch the server in the face all day.

[Arieneth]

asaron wrote:

token body drops are a major fail way too many people that have to gank  you could be stomping somone solo and low and behold a gank group shows up finishes them off loots chest your long fight was jsut deemed worthless  way too many kiddies that cant kill anyone without the herd for token body drops

agree. tokens were the beginning of the downfall. the best system was pure status based. gank groups that tried to steal your kills would and get vastly diminished status gains. any physical currency for purchasing goods is too easily exploitable.

[PeaSy1]

Arieneth@Nagafen wrote:

Pinino-Lfg wrote:

Doubt they would do anything like that thats alot more work and upkeep then just making changes to pvp mechanic, gotta be somewhat realistic with ideas i figured.

because loading old T7 code onto a server and turning it on is more work than developing code, testing it, breaking it and fixing it while breaking other things.

the upkeep would be far less than upkeep on the current servers. look at Nagafen...laggiest server in the entire game. all the gear with procs, among many other things, kills server performance. look at all the threads about it.

that didn't exist back in T7, or nowhere near as bad. the best gear possible didnt punch the server in the face all day.

Harla dar has the same proc gear on a more populated server and has no lag problems from wat ive seen.

[Szerian]

Dudoes@Nagafen wrote:

Arieneth@Nagafen wrote:

Pinino-Lfg wrote:

Doubt they would do anything like that thats alot more work and upkeep then just making changes to pvp mechanic, gotta be somewhat realistic with ideas i figured.

because loading old T7 code onto a server and turning it on is more work than developing code, testing it, breaking it and fixing it while breaking other things.

the upkeep would be far less than upkeep on the current servers. look at Nagafen...laggiest server in the entire game. all the gear with procs, among many other things, kills server performance. look at all the threads about it.

that didn't exist back in T7, or nowhere near as bad. the best gear possible didnt punch the server in the face all day.

Harla dar has the same proc gear on a more populated server and has no lag problems from wat ive seen.

havent played in a long time but im sure the expansions is not the cause of the lag if the russian server is running the same expansion with no lag problems.. prolly somthing with the code if anything

[Szerian]

Pinino-Lfg wrote:

   I hope honestly they really listen to peoples pleas, ask the oldest people on nagafen and they will probably tell you that pvp was amazing in EoF, u had fame loss, token body drops, people out actually hunting in small groups or solo for thier fame and because of no writs, the players decided where the fights would be not the writ givers, immunity was almost no where to be found... pvp gear was alot more expensive aswell took 3 months of grinding for a piece of gear, was very rewarding when u actually recieved it....

I believe we hated pvp back then, thats is we hated some things about it, but we loved all of it at the same time.... the harder somthing is the better and more rewarding it is when you finally accomplish victory. bottom line. sure people will whine, but they will continue to play when you make things difficult it makes it more rewarding to win  and when you make it  easy for everyone with no loss of experience or fame and youve accomplished everything there is to accomplish it gets old real fast...

the same kind of feeling as uh playing on an emulated private server where you can summon any gear you want... its cool at begining equiping yourself as the best equiped character in the game, but you eventually realize that youve accomplished nothing everyone has what you have and you have no fear of losing it because it was gained so easy you can throw it away and find somthing new to play with...

the things we hated back then,  people 1v1, evacing when you poped up on track, geting hunted by a gank group while trying to hunt solo, the greys leeching fame hits so they could achieve high rank without any loss, no immunity safe spots at all you simply had 30 secs to prepare for being hunted again, this stuff made it enjoyable for some crazy psychotic reason,it gave you a thrill to the game, a worry in the back of your head, will i be ganked any second... yes when your camped at your spawn point it made you [Removed for Content] to lose 3 fame hits from groups griefing you or somthing but its better then godmode pvp , or zergfest pvp where you just sit there and continue to get your kill count up with no care wheather you die or not

I really hope a developer reads this.

 My friend who plays eq1 aswell as on project 1999  server (emulated eq1 pre expansions) and his friends stated they hate everquest aswell as eq2, but the one thing it had was the best pvp system they've ever seen, of course they only got to play in eof so of course its alot different now, but this definatly was the strongest point of the game in my opinion yalls pvp system was painfully difficult and amazing all at the same time...

/agree with everything

[Pinino-Lfg]

Dudoes@Nagafen wrote:

Arieneth@Nagafen wrote:

Pinino-Lfg wrote:

Doubt they would do anything like that thats alot more work and upkeep then just making changes to pvp mechanic, gotta be somewhat realistic with ideas i figured.

because loading old T7 code onto a server and turning it on is more work than developing code, testing it, breaking it and fixing it while breaking other things.

the upkeep would be far less than upkeep on the current servers. look at Nagafen...laggiest server in the entire game. all the gear with procs, among many other things, kills server performance. look at all the threads about it.

that didn't exist back in T7, or nowhere near as bad. the best gear possible didnt punch the server in the face all day.

Harla dar has the same proc gear on a more populated server and has no lag problems from wat ive seen.

Exactly russian servers dont have lag

[Arieneth]

it's no secret the russian servers are not SOE owned. they are rented and vastly superior to our servers despite SOE's claims of upgrading Nagafen.

but my point still stands. ease the stress (or do a real upgrade) on the servers and the lag will be better. they are progressing the game at a faster rate than the servers that run it. buy Nagafen a new server and then turn old Nagafen server into a classic server...i dont care...i just want my fun back. which is the whole point. we can stop talking about lag as there are 15 other threads about it. this is about the game not being as fun as it used to be and what we want to get it back to what it was.

[Joemomm]

Holy jumping frogloks it's Szerian! Did you drop Aion yet and come back?

[yellowbelly08]

While I do agree that the best pvp was pre 2007 there is nothing stopping us having good pvp with the current ruleset (bar lag of course), its just the stubborn mentality of many nostalgics wont permit this.. I like Battlegrounds and it has invigorated pve servers for sure and gives a nice instant pvp alternative. (tho BGs are crying out for new maps and the promised leaderboards and monthly prizes as promised..) If people say battlegrounds have now meant that not many open world pvp anymore then the fix is to have DIFFERENT rewards, eg different and Better gear (which ok cant work in Bgs..but).

  Warfields have meant the only open world pvp to be found is generally in Ant and Cl and in the zerg points of these zones to boot. To improve warfields a.) fix the lag b.) do not get a reward for losing a warfield c.) Have a tough end raid boss mob to kill when towers are down and d.) have a greater faction reward for winning a warfield such as reduced broker prices for the duration the current warfield has been won till the next.

Such concentration of open world pvp tho is far from optimal and leads to increasingly unbalanced zergs. People/A teams need to still be roaming imo. To encouarge this....a suggestion would be to have a randomly spawning npc pop up every 30 mins in ANY T9 (or any tier for each lvl) which when found..and killed gives a chance to drop a rare uber pvp item as loot (maybe one in 5 chance to drop other times drops decent legendary no trade no heirloom). So solos or A teams would roam the relevant zones...and encounter similar opposition frequently.

Its all about the player base if we wanted to make things good we could. Eg a decent guild needs to betray to fp..to stop the imbalance. A teams need to start going out looking for A teams.

This way everyone COULD find plentiful, decent pvp if they wanted to. Bring back fame loss?..er NO as previous sentence wouldnt apply....

[Bryony]

One other thing they could do to help the zerg mechanics in warfields is to remove the revive spots from the areas close to the towers to prevent simple die/stand up zerg writs. Or, move the warfields to better areas that do not have revive spots right in front of, and not far off from the towers.

Additionally due to the serious city imbalances on Nagafen for PvP and raiding they need to allow betrayal with less penalty. For example where you don't lose your Masters unless you swap classes. This would encourage a little more balance and I would imagine help Freeport out quite a bit at this point.

[Bryony]

Akella runs the Russian servers (I believe!)

[Eboncross]

Bryony@Nagafen wrote:

One other thing they could do to help the zerg mechanics in warfields is to remove the revive spots from the areas close to the towers to prevent simple die/stand up zerg writs. Or, move the warfields to better areas that do not have revive spots right in front of, and not far off from the towers. I love the revive Zerg. I think I killed the same person like 15 times the other day.

Additionally due to the serious city imbalances on Nagafen for PvP and raiding they need to allow betrayal with less penalty. For example where you don't lose your Masters unless you swap classes. This would encourage a little more balance and I would imagine help Freeport out quite a bit at this point. The number is a bunch of bologna. Everytime im in antonica or CL for this they out number the q's with their grey fest. If they got on their 90's they would easily out number the Q's. Yesterday there was far more level 35 freeps than any other Q combined at SQ tower. Funny too because they all stood around doing nothing because the q's were mostly on their 90's. Just a note, I didnt see this kind of leg up/hand out for the Q's on Venekor when the Freeps out numbered the Q's 10 to 1. I would suggest they allow a guild to move over. I bet more would be inclined to do it that way..

They have needed to have a balance of sides for a long time. A cap where an account can only make a toons on the side wheres there is an opening and you stay on that side for all your alts also.