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05-01-2005, 04:49 PM
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#121 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 107
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I'll agree to that point. The wards and lifetaps should be a little bit more meaningful. Right now all the drains and such are basicly worthless. If the lifetaps worked more like they did in old EQ, then an SK would be right where they need to be.
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05-02-2005, 09:09 PM
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#122 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 559
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As a Berserker i love my DPS capability but we do have some defense problems vs Guardians that SoE should fix Mainly The fact that our Stance buff doesnt stack with our 3 min Defense skill buff ( oh they are 2 different spell lines might i add ) so Berserkers are only able to buff themselves 2 lvls of defense. Currently we are on the low end of self defense buffs since our Unflinching Will ( stance buff Tier 5 gives + 10 to defense/561 Mental Mitigation and adept 1 for a lvl 50 ) and Controlled Rage ( Tier 5, 3 min defense which gives + 12 defense/slows attack speed of caster by 20% ) buff doesnt stack atm since Controlled Rage over rights Stance for that 3 min . Fix that and Berserkers will be dead on defensewise vs every other plate tank.... Oh and Wards for Crusaders and Lifetaps for SK's REALLY NEED TO BE LOOKED AT Power vs Usage wise since they BOTH need to be enhanced to were they are actually a viable spell line to use...
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Zesstra - 70 Warlock Halcyon Affinity - Antonia Bayle |
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05-04-2005, 01:58 AM
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#123 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 55
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Same for guards,our stance doesnt stack with our defense line group buffs .. so actually we would have even more than 2 lvl defense than we already have  i actually just hope that SoE finds a solution that works just the way moorgard explained like it should be 
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05-04-2005, 03:14 AM
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#124 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 51
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double post'd Message Edited by Irenik on 05-03-200504:14 PM Message Edited by Irenik on 05-03-2005 04:14 PM |
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05-04-2005, 03:24 AM
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#125 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 51
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I'm sure you are, as a Guardian... Will be nice for you, being the only end-game tank. As a Zerker am I suppossed to look forward to 50 now? Yay for being left out of raids since the only tanks worth bringing are Guardians. MG says equipment will make the difference? How exactly am I suppossed to get better equipment than Guardians when only their class gets access to raid drops? Hrmm, which should we take as our tank... The guy with the pristine ebon van or the guy with the suit of fabled raid gear that has a proc on every piece... Tough call there.:smileymad: I'm sure we'll tank just as well as a Guardian - Against worthless freakin' yard trash. I'm so glad that I get to spend my end-game watching from the sidelines and farming yard trash. This is so much bull****.
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05-04-2005, 04:50 AM
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#126 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 648
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One thing also to think about, if the Guardians get the substantial difference in end game tanking they demand, and the rest of the tank classes become their towel boys (not the word I wanted to use but knew censor wouldn't allow word I wanted to use). Then we also have to think about what will happen when they add levels and new content, then the difference will keep growing and the other tank classes will be left farther and farther behind. We saw this in EQlive for those of you that played it, in the end game Pallys and Shadow Knights where being left out of raids AND it was bleeding into the group side too. When Gates of Discord came out Knights where getting [Removed for Content] in group encounters. I don't want to see "the one tank to rule them all" concept again. Why is the concept of equal but different so offensive to the Guardian class I don't know .... my guess is that most of the Guardians that post here where former warriors from EQlive and they want dominace again, even if it sidelines the other 5 tanking classes. V/R Blackoath 31st Troll Shadow Knight
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Blackoath Uglyone 80 Shadow Knight of Chaos Phang 80 Swashbuckler of Chaos You EVER going to fix SKs Sony? |
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05-04-2005, 04:54 AM
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#127 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 107
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I still don't see the problem with the zerker. I don't feel like the towelboys to the guardians. I do more damage and tank just fine. One doesn't have to be the best to do the job. I hope zerkers never tank like guardians, if I had wanted that, I'd have played a guardian and not a zerker.
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05-04-2005, 04:06 PM
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#128 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
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Margen, there are a lot fo theads like this, and i've posted on some of the others, but i'll sumarise here... I play a zerker because i don't want to be a guardian, if you do then maybe you should roll one, if you sig is correct and you're lvl 31 then you could get a guard up to that lvl very quickly - a few weeks if you put your back into it... i have a 9-6 job monday to friday job and i got to lvl 30 in 3 and a half weeks with my zerker, but anyway, that's not the point...
This isn't specifcally aimed at you, but everyone that thinks all fighters should be equal in defence.... Look at it this way: Guardians give up DSP and heals/lifetaps etc to be the best at defence. If you want equal defence you're gonna have to give up them too or it's unbalanced - you can't tank as good as a guard and have dps & lifetaps (yes i know lifetaps are rubbish and need fixing right now) Now if they do that- ie make all fighters equal defence (and low dmg) you will never get into a raid at all as every raid will only want one or two fighters as any more than two (extra one for a backup tank maybe) will be a waste of space. If they don't do that and just up all fighters defence to match a guardians then you still won't be MT because if there's a guardian there he can only MT as where you can DPS too, so it's not fair on the guardian to give the only job he can do to someone else that has a secondary job and make him redundant in the raid as where you're not redundant if you're not MT. Either way, your never gonna tank that many raids as a shadow night. It's not to say you can't, you can, perfectly well, you're just not the best at it and you can do something else usefull appart from MT. If you want to tank more raids as a shadow knight then just organise your own raid and don't invite any guards! :smileywink: But seriously, if you want to tank raids then quit trying to break the system so you never get to anyway and just roll up a guardian so you do. Think about the implecations of what would happen before you say all fighters should be equal at defence!!
btw, last raid i did i tanked as there were no guards there, but i'd have happily given that over to a guardian if one had turned up - i enjoy the odd chance to sit back and just dsp as i've never been in a group where i wasn't MT. Raid tanking is dull anyway - auto attack, taunt, buff, taunt, buff... boring... group tanking is much more fun cause you can let rip with lots of attacks and if you run out of power you haven't got 10 mins of the fight left to go, wonding how you're gonna keep agro with auto attack!! :smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by WolfShark on 05-04-2005 05:13 AM
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Enumclaw, Guardian of Everfrost Caalador, Swashbuckler of Everfrost |
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05-04-2005, 05:57 PM
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#129 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
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Been Missing ya in the guild Eldarn wish ya come back online
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05-04-2005, 06:08 PM
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#130 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 155
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if your guild doesnt give you equipment then your guild sucks, not the system. find people who agree with your style of play. thats the point of guilds. not to get uber [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. my line of thought is mostly in line with FoH which does heavily support guardians. My equipment is worth 10x my buffs at least. any variations between plate tanks diminishes slowly as they all gear up. SOE cannot address the issue of your guild being unfair to crusaders without adding class armor, which I am in disagreement with, and I used to play a paladin. the cons outweigh the pros on class armor in my opinion, from either side of the crusader / warrior argument. you CHOSE your class coming up. there were obvious differences in the class quests as well as in the names of the classes themselves. this is a TON more friendly than EQ1 and the tanks are WAY closer together as well. I chose guardian b/c I wanted to be able to tank anything and everything. Paladins are the closest to my capability but everyone else is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] close too. On the other side of the argument, every fighter does far far more DPS than I tank in comparison. If thats not what you want from your class you can change your class. I would love if every epic encounter in the game required the efforts of multiple fighers from various classes and sub-classes to diminish, spread out, and re-direct incoming damage of many types to the best use of the raid. I think the worst design of any epic encounter is the existence of a Main Tank. I didn't choose guardian b/c I wanted to be the Main Tank. I chose it b/c I wanted to be the Best Tank. Unfortunately due to SOE's combat design there can be only ONE tank, and that is the problem. The Long-term solution isnt to fight over what scraps are tossed at us at meal time, but to demand more scraps exist per meal. This can only be solved from the design end of both spells and encounters. Whether warrior, crusader, or brawler is best for one fight doesnt solve the problem, it just changes it, so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing grow up. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing at guardians and claiming that we all want to be the only tank and make you our [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]es is bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], stupid, immature, ignorant, etc. We aren't, never have been, and never will be the problem. And yes there will always be a superior tank for every encounter, most of the time it will be guardians, and thats good design. As a paladin in EQ1 I had to accept far less tanking capability and I was always sub-par to warriors in DPS, at every level of the game. Thats radically different now and you [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing [Removed for Content] still [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Don't think I don't understand though. In EQ1 I could cure, heal, rez, stun, root, buff, etc. and do it pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well. I stacked on raids in the healing department though never in tanking. Now you can stack in both but to a pretty small amount. Fights aren't dynamic and there aren't the abilities to respond to dynamic fights either. Combat should shift and all fighters should get short duration powerful abilities to diminish the effects of sudden shifts in an encounter. This is where stacking and singular importance can come into play and mobs just arent that advanced yet. If you want to pick a fight with some random guardian you go for it, but don't be a stupid prickabout it. Guardians aren't the problem.
Message Edited by Ibishi on 05-04-2005 10:22 AM |
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05-04-2005, 07:40 PM
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#131 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 346
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That is right, Guardians are not the problem. They are pretty much balanced as a fighter archtype. However, the issue is now to balance out the other fighter archtypes like wards, lifetaps, and heals. Let's make them more mana effecient or last a lot longer, that would be the first step to fixing a number of problems.
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05-04-2005, 07:47 PM
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#132 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 58
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"Sure, if that were the case I would agree, but all the tank classes can tank for a group, they just aren't all the prefered tank for raids and there should never be a reason for ever tank to tank every situation equaly well."
Exactly which situations do guardians fail to tank as well as the other subclasses? If all the other fighter subclasses are supposed to just suck-it-up and ACCEPT the fact that they will never be as good at raid tanking as guardians, then which situations require the reverse? The problem is that there are currently NO situations where the other subclasses tank better than the guardian. THAT IS THE INHERENT DISPARITY THAT SEEMS TO BE ESCAPING THE GRASP OF SO MANY ON THESE BOARDS. If the game provided sufficient variety of encounter types where an avoidance/dps tank or a balanced/healing tank would be a better choice than a guardian then there wouldn't be any beef in the first place (except those that would still whine over guardians being the best for the "best" encounters...ie...raids). |
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05-04-2005, 08:17 PM
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#133 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
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Omg... guardian is not the best tank in any group under 5 in my honest option. There just isn't enough dmg output from 3 or 4 people to loose all the dps from the tank slot and not enough dmg coming in to justify the extra defense. If you have 2 duos: A guard & a templar and a monk & a templar and got them to kill 100 even con ^^ mobs the monk's duo would be done in half time, even with slightly longer time for healer to regen power in between each fight. Therefor the monk is the better tank in that situation. And that applies up to about the 4 or 5 person group mark when they start to even out. Why do people think being "a good tank" is about your ability to not get hurt alone? That's only half the story! It's everything you bring to the group. The guard is a "perfect tank", but than means havnig the "perfect group" to go with him - guard + 1 healer + 1 scout + 3 wizards probably. In game it just don't work out that way and DPS is often more useful than having slightly better defence. Unless the tank goes down or you're waiting for a full power regen from your healer after each fight then the extra defense is wasted and the DPS is always useful... Saying a guardian is a better tank in a small group than a monk simply because he has better defensive abilities is like saying a ferrari is faster than a family car in a 30mph zone... A guards abilities are wasted in a small group, making them the worst tank in that situation. At lvl 50 it's all messed up because no-one has anything to do but raid and with 23 other people (minus a few healers) doing DPS you could afford for the tank to have dual weild 2 sheilds if you wanted to so guardians are king... The point is that this is temporary - when the lvl cap moved to 100 and there's lots of new group content everyone can play in normal groups again and guards advantage will evaporate.... And when you hit 100, start a new char, don't moan that the subclasses don't balance well on the the tiny 0.1% of content that's left to play with. The idea of balancing the whole game based on a minority of players who have run out of content and are finding their subclass to be unbalanced on the few mobs they have left to fight is frankly unfair on the other 99% of players still trying to enjoy the other 99% of the games content. Message Edited by WolfShark on 05-04-2005 09:22 AM
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Enumclaw, Guardian of Everfrost Caalador, Swashbuckler of Everfrost |
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05-04-2005, 09:13 PM
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#134 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 58
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"At lvl 50 it's all messed up because no-one has anything to do but raid and with 23 other people (minus a few healers) doing DPS you could afford for the tank to have dual weild 2 sheilds if you wanted to so guardians are king..."
And shouldn't this be telling you something about how fubared raid encounters are to begin with? The very idea that one LONE tank can hold the aggro so 23 others can apply dps(or healing) is a very big part of what is wrong to begin with. If raid mobs were a lot tougher for one tank to hold the aggro and it took 4-6 tanks serving as MAIN TANKS together to hold the aggro there wouldn't have been a problem to begin with. It's raids only needing one person to protect 23 others that is incredibly idiotic. Each and every last squishie should need a tank for protection, not one tank protecting 23 squishies! |
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05-04-2005, 10:02 PM
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#135 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
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I'd LOVE to see the content changed to give other tanks a fair go (i'm not a guard remember!)... and there are lots of ways to do it. As you said above, you could have raids that need lots of tanks. Or make the mob immune to taunts so that the DPS tanks can hold agro but a guard can't. Make mobs that knock you high in the air so only tanks with safe fall (ie brawlers) can safely tank them. There are loads of ways sony could address this and i hope they try many different ones in the lvl 100 raids that there wil no doubt be a lot of. I'd be very happy with equality in tanking through different content, not by making all fighters basically the same... Only thing is we'll need to find a secodary role for the guardians so they're not useless when not tanking. Your suggestion of needing lots of tanks covers that quite nicely tho! :smileyhappy: Perhaps a raid that has 3 bosses to fight at once, one normal, one imune to tauts and one the knocks the tank up in the air meaning that every type of tank has a place and you need 3 tanks for the raid. As you said, there are far too many tanks to have one MT for 23 other players. It leads to everyone that isn't MT moaning. If content could be designed so that you needed a warrior, and a crusader and a brusier in every raid i think people would be a lot happier!! SOE, you listening??? no.. though not... :smileytongue:
Message Edited by WolfShark on 05-04-2005 11:12 AM
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Enumclaw, Guardian of Everfrost Caalador, Swashbuckler of Everfrost |
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05-04-2005, 11:56 PM
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#136 |
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Tester
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 161
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The one thing I keep noticing is people trying to quote the original statement by saying "all fighters tank equally" That is not the actual statement...it's actually "...all fighters tank equally in most situations..." Plus lets add on the EULA statement that you agree to every time you start the game "Gameplay may change"
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Eelyen Dalamar |
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05-05-2005, 12:25 AM
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#137 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 58
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Great response Wolf!
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05-05-2005, 03:27 AM
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#138 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
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I'm not some nut trying to keep/make the game unbalanced, just asking for it to stay intertesting and varied. Balance and equality yes, but not at the expense of the uniqueness of the subclasses! There is always more than one solution and if soe listen to us at all then it's our job to come up with ideas to help us all get what we all want in a way that makes the game more fun and interesting to play, not just moan for blandness! A pleasure to talk to you Graymane! :smileyhappy:
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Enumclaw, Guardian of Everfrost Caalador, Swashbuckler of Everfrost |
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05-05-2005, 04:16 AM
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#139 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 648
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I think you might of misunderstood me, I don't want to have the mitigation of guardians, I just want my skill set to offset their advantage in mitigation ... plus aggro generation seems to be a problem too least for us Shadow Knights with our power problems. As for being only 31, yes not at end game yet, only play once or twice during the week then on weekend due to work and RL issues. But I was raiding in EQlive and my pally was seriously underpowered IMHO, don't want to see that develope for my Shadow Knight. While I am not high end raiding at this time, even at mid level there is problems with balance issue IMO, course playing a Shadow Knight could color my vision. As for playing a Guardian ... won't happen. I never like playing the favorite class of the month Also your idea for requiring more then one tank on raids is excellent. If there was clear and definined roles for each of the 3 subclasses sets it would solve alot of the problems I see right now. As it is now if their is more people on then is needed in the raid the extra tanks will be the first to be dropped, specially if rumor is correct and the DPS tanks will be taking a hit so there is more difference between fighters and rogues. Again nice idea on the multiple tank issue. V/R Blackoath 31st Troll Shadow Knight
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Blackoath Uglyone 80 Shadow Knight of Chaos Phang 80 Swashbuckler of Chaos You EVER going to fix SKs Sony? |
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05-05-2005, 05:35 AM
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#140 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 32
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People tend to think that mitigation/avoidance should be the only way to determine how someone should tank. Many people seem to think that because they want to tank as well means that they want the same skill sets. This couldn't be further from the truth. What I want, as a paladin is, through my wards, heals and slightly higher dps, to tank the same as everyone other tank (lets say guardians since they seem to be getting the brunt of the attack). Do I want their mitigation? No, with all my skills that would be unbalanced. What I want is for my current defense + wards + heals = guardian mitigation skills. True, this may translate to more work for me in the end (having to continuously click the spells needed vs just loading up a couple buffs at the beginning of the fight and then just taunting during the fight) but in the end I want to be just as effective (i.e. healers be able to expend the same amount of mana healing me). Now in order to offset the secondary roles that I may fill while guardians tank, guardians should be able to have a secondary role to fill while a paladin tanks. This is the biggest flaw in the tanking design as it stands right now (well other than that whole only 1 tank and 23 others doing dmg/healing). Maybe the whole only 1 tank problem could be fixed through the guardian protection line (absorbing hits for others). The only problem with this would be that there would have to be an advantage to having this secondary ability (i.e. guardian takes 15% of damage after mitigation and other tank takes 80%, therefore 5% is still being lost in the mix thus relieving some of the damage). This would be just one of the possible roles that a warrior could fill.
Some guardians may be opposed to gaining secondary roles, stating that they created their class to be the best tank for any job. But to those that have open minds to new possibilities to ease the pain of the non-guardian community, I ask that you try to come up with ideas of your own. Possibly through buffs that you already have and just extending upon them. Only through working together and avoiding greed can we come up with a solution that makes everyone happy.
Lotharin Dashaus 48 Paladin Najena |
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05-05-2005, 12:21 PM
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#141 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
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Cool, i'll agree with everything in that post, i obviously did misunderstand you to start with, my appologies for that. I guess i've just been arguing with to many people who actually ARE asking to be the same as a guard recently and took you for one of them! :smileytongue: The fact that you're not at end game means i respect your optinion on game balance much more actually!!! If you think that there's a big difference right now for you at lvl 31 on group content and your having trouble tanking group content (or not as good at it as you should be) then something really does need to be done! My main beef is with trying to rebalance the mechanics of the whole game rather than fix the lvl 50 raid content when guards don't have a second roll yet and can't do anything but MT at the moment in raids - you can't balance tanks for MT on raids when all other tanks have a second roll on raids except guards... As far as i understand it, and please, correct me if i'm wrong - i've never played a SK (although i was thinking of making one for my next char), a lot of the problems for SK's are due to how much your life taps currently suck.... If they 'tapped' twice as much HP for half the power (or whatever adjustment is appropriate) then i think it would close up a lof of the gap as you'd be making back more of the HP your loosing due to the defencive gap...? Something unique like your lifetap ability would almost be hard to overplay, buy from what i've heard, they're not that great... Message Edited by WolfShark on 05-05-2005 01:22 AM Message Edited by WolfShark on 05-05-2005 02:05 AM
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Enumclaw, Guardian of Everfrost Caalador, Swashbuckler of Everfrost |
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05-05-2005, 12:36 PM
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#142 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
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a) yes completely agree with all of your post b) i saw something the other day that really made me laugh and i 5 stared it for orginality, so i thought i'd post it here.. We were talking about a second roll for guards if they do close up the defensive gap between the tanks and boli came up with this brilliant (wacky) idea: boli wrote: Now Guardians get ranged slot I love this idea if nothing else because it's crazy and it's fun and interesting! I think it would be better modified so that the effects of this seige weapon where huge aeo debuffs, stuns, knockdowns etc with a bit of dmg, rather than just single big hits, but it's still a very good step towards finding a fun 2nd roll for guards so they don't just make puppy eyes until they get to MT in every situation! :smileyvery-happy: I'd love to see some catapults or trebuchets in eq2!! :smileytongue:
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Enumclaw, Guardian of Everfrost Caalador, Swashbuckler of Everfrost |
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05-05-2005, 02:45 PM
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#143 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 267
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Lifetaps- Need a complete revamp. As it stands, they suck, horribly. Even quadrupaling ttheir heal portion would barely begin to touch em. Wards- VERY power hungry, especially for the peanut amount they actually do. Most SK's use em for aggro, thats it. My adep 1 endgame ward blocks about 500 damage(unmitigated) for over 125 power cost. Taunts- For *some* reason, no one really knows why, but its been proven, SK taunts just dont work right. They never seen to work as good as they *should* be working, at again a tremendous power cost. Power Cost- Heres the biggie, SK's can and will burn an entire power just trying to aggro. That means no lifetaps. I do it all the time. This is the serious issue, as once we run out of power, we cant really do jack. No more taunts, lifetaps, wards, buffs, etc. Harm Touch- This is supposed to be one of our class defining skills, that really doesent scale up very well, and is resisted way too much to justify a 1/2 hour timer. Graven embrace- Is a joke, rarely works, when it does work, the person is forced to standing 15 sec later. Most of us use this as a *fun* spell. These are just a couple of issues with SK. I did try to leave out the laundry list of spells that are just plain broke(like calculated evasion). Message Edited by Blackdog183 on 05-05-2005 03:46 AM Message Edited by Blackdog183 on 05-05-2005 04:12 AM
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Iceband Fatebringer Leader-Shadows of Freeport 51SK/59 alchey |
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05-05-2005, 03:17 PM
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#144 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
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So you wouldn't recomend me rollup up a SK as my next char then blackdog? :smileysad: That's a shame - i really wanted to play one too... You'd think they would get every spell/skill for every class working properly before they try to rebalance wouldn't you.. doesn't make a lot of sense. My zerker burns power mega fast too - i can run out in about a minute if i go ape, but by that time whatever i'm fighting is both pretty close to dead and rivited to me so hard it would take a full raid of wizards to pull agro away from me... (group content i mean, not raids... obviously when MT in raids i try to just keep ahead on agro, not mash every button as fast as i can, so i don't run out of power and get stuck with auto attack only for 10 mins!) SK's should have no trouble keeping agro - You'd have thought a life tap would cause massive agro - they're heals and dmg at the same time after all! If they don't then someone at soe needs a kick in the butt!! :smileymad: I'm gonna make a SK anyway cause i really want one... i'll just hope that soe gets round to the fixing they obviously need before i get to 30 (first 29 lvls are dull anyway imo).... I just hope that soe puts in some thought and effort and fixes them by making life taps great and content varied etc, not by making fighters all the same - i already have a fighter and a scout so i guess i'd just delete the SK and make a priest or something if it happened that way :smileysad: The current chages in test to make kite and tower sheild block the same is a good example of what i'm taking about... why take the brain dead approach of making them the same when you could make SK/pally lifetap/heals more potent to cover the difference instead? If it turns out that that's still not balanced because lifetap costs power and shield don't then give the mobs more attacks that you can't block so in some cases lifetap/heal is better than any shield... at least then there's some flavor...
Message Edited by WolfShark on 05-05-2005 04:43 AM
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Enumclaw, Guardian of Everfrost Caalador, Swashbuckler of Everfrost |
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05-05-2005, 03:44 PM
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#145 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 58
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"Guardian's secondary role could be mobile light artiliery
Whooaaa......deja vu for a former DAOC paladin who absolutely loved the siege weaponry in that game. Initially the siege weaponry in DAOC was very heavy. It came in unassembled pieces that were too heavy for any but a fully buffed fighter class to carry and often had to be carried into battle by multiple people. Later, in order to make siege equipment more accessible and useable, they gave crafters an ability to create "diminutive siege apparatus". This was lighter weight and could be carried by almost anyone. As paladins were one of the few non-ranged classes in that game, carrying a dimi-ballista around in your backpocket was an absolute must. Operating siege weaponry gave fighter classes something to do in castle sieges which were dominated by mages and archers. Giving the "heavy" tank of this game a secondary role of operating siege artillery is an absolutely wonderful idea! |
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05-05-2005, 03:55 PM
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#146 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
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hehe, yeah, i agree, it's brilliant, that's why i copied it over here... As it stands i would never roll up a guardian as it's too much like my zerker, but without the fun of loans of aeos, burning HP to proc and generally being the crazy guy the mobs run away scared from :smileytongue: But if guardians could be given something that cool and unique then a) i'll make one! and b) it would then be fair to up the defensive/raid thanking abilities of all the firghters to keep everyone happy! (and i'd stop posting saying "booo to taking the guards only job away") It wouldn't even have to be that effective for me to want to play a guard if that came in! Hell i'd make a guard just for the entertainment factor of getting to a raid say saying "just keep him busy for 2 mins while i set up my catapult" :smileyvery-happy: /edit: Just had a though as to how this could be expanded to make this REALLY good... A guard could be the only subclass able to set one up and fire it, but if other fighters (and only fighters) could help load it to increase its rate of fire (1 loader = 2x fire, 2 loaders = 3x fire rate etc), then you could have lots of fighters in a raid with no arguments about MTing as they'd have a really useful extra job of loading the seige weapon that no other class can do so there would be good reason to take multiple fighters!! (lets face it half the problem here is that with the current content, any fighter who isn't MT would be better replaced by a wizard in a raid most of the time and there are more fighters than there are MT openings). Good extra thought number 2: I read a thread recently saying that currently carpenters don't have much to make apart from chairs and boxes as where woodworkers make sheilds and bows and idols and it's a little unbalanced on the usefulness of the 2 professions.... Let these things be player made by carpenters to give them something cool to make that people actually use in combat!! Message Edited by WolfShark on 05-05-2005 05:59 AM
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Enumclaw, Guardian of Everfrost Caalador, Swashbuckler of Everfrost |
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05-06-2005, 01:01 AM
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#147 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 133
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Why do different fighter class tank better or worse than another? It's called variety... why would you have multiple versions of the figther if they all we the same... it would be really asinine.
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Vertigo, Everfrost Ranger Merry Christmas!!! |
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05-06-2005, 03:12 AM
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#148 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 32
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Once again, get it through your skull, we don't want the same mitigation. We want to achieve the same effectiveness of guardians through our spells. Most people, as far as I gather, would be up for giving guardians a secondary role. This is why above I asked people to come up with ideas to fix the annoyances of the lack of a secondary role. Hopefully there is a solution that we can all be happy with (well except for those few that are never happy with any ideas proposed :smileyvery-happy:
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05-07-2005, 02:00 AM
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#149 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 648
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Blackoath 31 Troll Shadow Knight Message Edited by Margen on 05-06-2005 03:05 PM
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Blackoath Uglyone 80 Shadow Knight of Chaos Phang 80 Swashbuckler of Chaos You EVER going to fix SKs Sony? |
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05-07-2005, 04:50 AM
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#150 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 155
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variety is also what we have now. and [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] dude, he spelled it correctly in your quote and you...what? refused to do the same? guardians are so far from imbalanced. But as a 31 shadowknight you know everything don't you? No, instead you listen to the complete idiots who are 50 and whining on the forums (the people enjoying themselves don't visit often) that they can't tank. Then some of them even say they don't want to tank or indeed have tanked every epic mob so far. Its a crazy world of bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] among the crusaders right now. the only thing anyone aside from a crusader has agreed with a crusader on is cost:effect ratio on tanking oriented skills such as wards. your mitigation and avoidance are so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] close to ours there is no need to bring it up. My gear is worth 10x my flavor spells. Though I suppose I should [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] because a great 31 shadowknight has a problem tanking group con mobs. Are you really having a problem with that? Even brawlers, the tanks who take the most damage overall, don't have many issues there. Sounds to me like you either suck or are completely ignorant. Tell me what you're really crying about and show me your experience. If you quote or mimic one of the laughable exaggerating crusaders back in the crusader forums anymore you're not worth the time.
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