The EXP Changes and You.

[Domyr Farseeker]

The xp scaling based on group size still exists, but if you make the hate list it's ignored and you get the same xp you'd get if you were solo.

If you don't make the hate list, you'd get xp based on the current scaling for group size.

I think the reference to mercs is just a way of saying that they still share some of your earned xp.

[Grumble69]

Gotcha, thx!

[Grumble69]

So let's see if I'm grasping the real world ramifications here:

* Solo play is going to be no worse than it is now.

* Grouping will become the fastest way to earn xp.  The problem is that certain classes will be missing out on a pretty significant amount of xp when there are mass pulls.  It's less of an issue when you have a single, high level target. 

* They are trying to discourage leveling straight to 90 and then mentoring down to grind out the AAs in certain zones where you get a nice little encounter bonus.

* If you're PL or AFK grinding, you could possibly be impacted.  It really depends on your method and where you're doing it.  ...some people will have to make changes.  But then the xp will falling like mana from heaven, faster than before.

[Domyr Farseeker]

Grumble69 wrote:

So let's see if I'm grasping the real world ramifications here:

* Solo play is going to be no worse than it is now.

* Grouping will become the fastest way to earn xp.  The problem is that certain classes will be missing out on a pretty significant amount of xp when there are mass pulls.  It's less of an issue when you have a single, high level target. 

* They are trying to discourage leveling straight to 90 and then mentoring down to grind out the AAs in certain zones where you get a nice little encounter bonus.

* If you're PL or AFK grinding, you could possibly be impacted.  It really depends on your method and where you're doing it.  ...some people will have to make changes.  But then the xp will falling like mana from heaven, faster than before.

That's a pretty reasonable summarization, as far as I understand it.

I might debate whether grouping will be the fastest way to earn xp. I think it'll still be faster and easier to PL, and now I can drag along more alts without group penalties. 

Either way, it should make non-mentored grouping a viable alternative for fast xp grinding.

[Ulrichvon]

Grumble69 wrote:

* If you're PL or AFK grinding, you could possibly be impacted.  It really depends on your method and where you're doing it.  ...some people will have to make changes.  But then the xp will falling like mana from heaven, faster than before.

AFK grinding will be affected, but since that is a EULA violation, perhaps just enforcing the EULA is the best choice here.

PLing is certainly affected, it will be slowed down depending on the class you are PLing.  For example, a regen / bard class will be very easy to just agro a pile of mobs, wait the 2-4s for a buff to tick then wipe them out.  Other classes will be significantly more annoying to get them on the hate list before killing anything.

Groups will be affected if they play in mass mob areas.

In the end, there seems to be a lot more negative impact for the tiny benefit of decentivizing a EULA violation.

If inactivity is really what they're going after here, they should add something to track inactivity.  Like auto-afk detection that when fires you no longer get credit.

[Torquer]

Ulrichvon wrote:

Grumble69 wrote:

* If you're PL or AFK grinding, you could possibly be impacted.  It really depends on your method and where you're doing it.  ...some people will have to make changes.  But then the xp will falling like mana from heaven, faster than before.

AFK grinding will be affected, but since that is a EULA violation, perhaps just enforcing the EULA is the best choice here.

PLing is certainly affected, it will be slowed down depending on the class you are PLing.  For example, a regen / bard class will be very easy to just agro a pile of mobs, wait the 2-4s for a buff to tick then wipe them out.  Other classes will be significantly more annoying to get them on the hate list before killing anything.

Groups will be affected if they play in mass mob areas.

In the end, there seems to be a lot more negative impact for the tiny benefit of decentivizing a EULA violation.

If inactivity is really what they're going after here, they should add something to track inactivity.  Like auto-afk detection that when fires you no longer get credit.

This comes back to my original question of what problem we're trying to solve.

If you want to solve the "problem" of AFK leveling, theres a way to do that 

If you want to solve the "problem" of power leveling, theres a way to do that

If you want to solve the problem of not enough grouping at low levels, theres a way to do that, and that solution is NOT the same solution as the above 2 scenarios.

As long as we remain unclear as to what we're actually trying to solve (theres many interpretations on this very thread of what the root "problem is), we're never going to get a real solution.  Thats step one and it seems like we've bypassed it altogether.  SOE typically isn't all that forthcoming either on what exactly it is they are trying to accomplish with each successive change, which is unfortunate.  Waiting for dev chats and SOE live events is a poor substitute for effective, early, proactive interaction with the playerbase.

All of that being said, I'd like to see an official definition of "AFK grinding."  If I have my dirge AF my Zerker for run speed while my Zerker is grinding out levels, should I be somehow punished for a EULA violation?  That seems ridiculous to me when I'm paying for both accounts even though the dirge isn't doing much other than auto following and the occasional CoB.

[Ulrichvon]

Torquer wrote:

All of that being said, I'd like to see an official definition of "AFK grinding."  If I have my dirge AF my Zerker for run speed while my Zerker is grinding out levels, should I be somehow punished for a EULA violation?  That seems ridiculous to me when I'm paying for both accounts even though the dirge isn't doing much other than auto following and the occasional CoB.

AFK grinding is just that, toons getting XP with no one at the PC.  Be that one session or multiple sessions.

Boxing with a toon not casting != AFK grinding.  It touches on earning benefits while inactive, and if thats what they're looking for setting a minimum activity over a period of time is the best solution as it would never possibly impact a player actually trying to play.

[Ragnaroeker1]

Can someone verify if this is life in Beta currently?  

I didn't keep track because, it wasn't something I was thinking about until 4 hours after playing and that inludes quests and a zone, I had an inch on game ui default bottom bar into 93.  I about died.  This is an excellent << lord brain dead, not a post, not a forum, but a .... crap...see how my mind is blown?>> thread! This is an excellent thread.  

If anyone can verify this is live currently in BETA, thank you.  If it isn't, I need to figure out what went wrong because it is double exp weekend I have vet bonus and potion running.  If I had to guess probably 20% into 93 after 4 hours of solid play.  I am stunned.

[Ragnaroeker1]

I took the time to really read over all your comments. It got me thinking and now I am going to share my thinking with you.  Don't be scared.  (just bump)

I started playing at launch.  The people I play with are a mixture of lifelong EQ and EQ2 and players who started playing after EOF.  The people I play the game with now are married, with kids, dating seriously basically have other commitments and obligations.  They still love to play and make a very hard effort to balance it out.  From 2004 through 2009 this didn’t appear to be so apparent.  I played with so many people 18 to 24 that had a care in the world.   Everyone had discovered a new shiny and it was the beginning of an adventure that continues still. Most of these players have quit playing because of regular life progression.  24… girlfriend… marriage… kids… it just happens.  They grew up.  I miss them very much and it has changed the dynamic of playing. 

Also, a lot of couples were playing and are playing the game.  Most of the ones I have known through the years decided to start families and unless you are a very special breed of people, young kids and starting a career doesn’t leave much room for EQ2.  

Also the economy crash has hindered many of us I am sure.  It is unfortunate that the timing of the crash was in keeping with the curve of EQ2 when new blood was needed badly.  I honestly think this might have hurt the continuing entrance of new players into the game far more than we know.  It is probably also why many people have left. 

I am using this rambling to lead into what I hope will be helpful and not just wasted space. 

My teenage daughter started to play about 3 years ago.  She got some of her friends to start as well.  It was a completely different experience watching her start.  I saw the devastating difference between her experience and mine.  She also was used to seeing me running through Veeshan’s Peak and screaming into what was Team Speak at that time.   Team what? Running all over Norrath to collect dragon runes even with 5 friends was not entertaining when they had been watching me raid for years.  I remember going to Naggy all those years ago and Mono fell in the lava right at the rock jump down when we were minutes away; I will never ever forget that.  I remember spending 12 hours in Nek Castle the first time we went.  It was 6:15 am when we finished.   I remember it. I can see me staring out the window watching the sun come up, not sure whether to laugh or cry.  There were hundreds of people doing the same thing and the chat channels were booming and it was just plain fun!   My daughter and her friends and basically anyone who has started playing EQ2 later than two years old cannot have that experience that I had.  It is impossible even if hundreds of people all started at once.  Not because the game isn’t fun, but because they know what lies ahead.   We were the ahead. 

I have often wondered why I hear so much about WOW. I have never played it, but it must be a totally different type of game.  EQ and EQ2 are a life adventure.   You can’t rebirth the journey.   The community, player base and story line all made up the journey.  The fights on Flames, the aggravations, the laughs, the break ups; all of these are experiences we lived on a continuum with our lives. It has been a life experience.   Maybe someone far more creative than me can find a way to do what it appears SOE wants to do, but I believe it is impossible.   SOE needs to start looking at the game from a new player starting off on equal ground with all of us.  I don’t mean giving Noob1 my raid gear and all my special things.  They have to earn that.  But EQ2’s life experience begins now at 92 in-between the past of SkyShrine and the afterlife of what might be the future in Chains of Eternity.  I am still trying to wrap my head around 20% exp in 4 hours, so I am not into the lore atm.  However, new players are starting the experience now.   Getting a toon from 0 to 92 is a pain in the rear and not fun. It is not fun not because the game wasn’t awesome.  It was awesome, but it’s time is gone.  Can you imagine someone taking you and putting you back in 1950 and telling you to catch up?  EQ2 is a life experience.   The game needs to seriously evolve.    Band-Aids and all these fixes of ideas that just end up breaking so many other things should be a wakeup call to everyone.   We are evolving in technology and in our lives every day.  We are also evolving within Norrath.  Norrath did not stay in the shattering.   You aren’t born on an island in your underwear any longer nor do you have a neighborhood to move into and decorate a new home once you get off the boat.  No one sits atop the roofs of Nettleville in the winter pelting innocent peops with snow balls.  Oh how those springy quest boots and springy tinkered boots gave us hours of enjoyment!  It gave us even more enjoyment watching new players try and figure out how we attained such feats.   Just give us toys and we moved the evolution of Norrath right along with the evolvement of ourselves.

I would love to have other higher level toons to play.  I have about 12 all of which were started in the first two years of EQ2. They range from level 24 to 92.  The majority of them are between 45 and 55.  I would love for them to be max level so I could play them now where Norrath is in 2012 not where she was in 2005.   I would activate my other two accounts if I could play those toons.  But, until SOE figures out how to evolve this game as this game has evolved us, that isn’t going to happen. 

So what's the answer? I don't know. I am just amazed you are still reading this. I know the solution is in one of your minds.  I have had the pleasure of playing with some of the most creative people in EQ2. Maybe we can all somehow offer enough suggestions that a solution might appear.  The situation should no longer be viewed as a negative; a wrong step that needs to be retrofitted for the present.  For one thing, you can’t bring the social neighborhood effect of bumping into toons all over Norrath back without taking out the guild halls, and no one is touching my one stop shop of where I know everything is. 

Only one thing is certain and that is change.  How something survives animate or inanimate rests with how it adapts.  Rather than us telling SOE every reason why this exp thing is not going to defy the laws of the universe, maybe someone can come up with a brilliant idea to evolve the game into the Norrath that exists in 2012.

Sorry this was so long.  Seems silly, a game holding such a part of my life; I never have been able to come to grips with that.  However, that is where the heart of the challenges are to be solved.  Norrrath is alive.   It has lived through us and we have lived through her.  My Monopoly hat never had this much of an effect on me.  Plus every time you pulled the board out, everyone started from scratch.  The game is still selling today.

 

[feldon30]

I think people are interpreting my mention of Powerleveling as saying that this change is targeted at the PL gameplay style. I don't think it is.

I believe the purpose of this change is to wake up and realize that EQ2 has 9 years of content and that 1-89 content shouldn't be totally worthless except for reading quest dialogue. If we can actually group up with people of our own power/experience and run some zones and walk away with a few levels or a dozen AAs or so, then why would I ever go back to solo grinding Anathema or KoS zones? I dream about those zones and dread Double XP weekends.

Want to see what's wrong with XP now? It's a Double XP weekend. Type /who all and look at where everyone is. It's not healthy for the game for everyone to be off grinding respawning mobs in their own solo instances.

Sure some of the details need to be worked out on hate lists and all that, and maybe the answer is a 1 minute invisible buff if you are contributing to the battle. But the overall concept has me thrilled.

[Skeez1e]

I haven't been able to copy to Beta so haven't been able to check these changes myself - I've skimmed most of the posts, I think I get the general drift and I do have a few concerns about the encounter bonus/hate list requirement.  

I have far too many characters max'd, I will admit that.  I also have a decent amount of play time available to me and I've used it.  I'm looking forward to the new expansion and new levels but I am thinking about the times between expansions - times when I decide maybe I should make a new toon, try x class.  I have run through the first 6 or 7 tiers so many times, all those quests umpteen time over and I just don't want to do it again so I will put a new character on follow (I multi-box) and hit the dungeons where there are heroic groups where the encounter bonuses (and the other bonuses) add up fast. I want to get them up through those mega repititious tiers to where there are more options for leveling.  It's fun mentored down, can plow through stuff and get the levels out of the way fast.  I don't like the idea of losing any experience for those runs.  

I really don't like the idea of the bonus going if I'm mentored down - grinding is what I like to do - it is far more fun to me than questiing, especially for levelling alts.  There are tons of lower dungeons that are so much fun to grind in - why would I bother if the encounter experience is gone.  I'm not sure I would.  

I'd be interested in hearing the rationale for contemplating this change. 

[Zergosch]

Skeez1e wrote:

I haven't been able to copy to Beta so haven't been able to check these changes myself - I've skimmed most of the posts, I think I get the general drift and I do have a few concerns about the encounter bonus/hate list requirement.  

I have far too many characters max'd, I will admit that.  I also have a decent amount of play time available to me and I've used it.  I'm looking forward to the new expansion and new levels but I am thinking about the times between expansions - times when I decide maybe I should make a new toon, try x class.  I have run through the first 6 or 7 tiers so many times, all those quests umpteen time over and I just don't want to do it again so I will put a new character on follow (I multi-box) and hit the dungeons where there are heroic groups where the encounter bonuses (and the other bonuses) add up fast. I want to get them up through those mega repititious tiers to where there are more options for leveling.  It's fun mentored down, can plow through stuff and get the levels out of the way fast.  I don't like the idea of losing any experience for those runs.  

I really don't like the idea of the bonus going if I'm mentored down - grinding is what I like to do - it is far more fun to me than questiing, especially for levelling alts.  There are tons of lower dungeons that are so much fun to grind in - why would I bother if the encounter experience is gone.  I'm not sure I would.  

I'd be interested in hearing the rationale for contemplating this change. 

Word! I wouldn´t have a 2nd 3rd account if i couldn´t make a use of, i also dont got that many sparetime for leveling.

I do like questing with my main. But i dont want to go through the same quest over and over again oO

But..... if the settings are live on beta, i had grouped with a mate (scout+pala+merc), we made 1 lvl (92-93) in about 1-2 hours, with 100% xp potion. So it isnt all that hard (both are raidgeared ^^).

[Mermut]

Zergosch wrote:

Skeez1e wrote:

I haven't been able to copy to Beta so haven't been able to check these changes myself - I've skimmed most of the posts, I think I get the general drift and I do have a few concerns about the encounter bonus/hate list requirement.  

I have far too many characters max'd, I will admit that.  I also have a decent amount of play time available to me and I've used it.  I'm looking forward to the new expansion and new levels but I am thinking about the times between expansions - times when I decide maybe I should make a new toon, try x class.  I have run through the first 6 or 7 tiers so many times, all those quests umpteen time over and I just don't want to do it again so I will put a new character on follow (I multi-box) and hit the dungeons where there are heroic groups where the encounter bonuses (and the other bonuses) add up fast. I want to get them up through those mega repititious tiers to where there are more options for leveling.  It's fun mentored down, can plow through stuff and get the levels out of the way fast.  I don't like the idea of losing any experience for those runs.  

I really don't like the idea of the bonus going if I'm mentored down - grinding is what I like to do - it is far more fun to me than questiing, especially for levelling alts.  There are tons of lower dungeons that are so much fun to grind in - why would I bother if the encounter experience is gone.  I'm not sure I would.  

I'd be interested in hearing the rationale for contemplating this change. 

Word! I wouldn´t have a 2nd 3rd account if i couldn´t make a use of, i also dont got that many sparetime for leveling.

I do like questing with my main. But i dont want to go through the same quest over and over again oO

But..... if the settings are live on beta, i had grouped with a mate (scout+pala+merc), we made 1 lvl (92-93) in about 1-2 hours, with 100% xp potion. So it isnt all that hard (both are raidgeared ^^).

I'm confused by people who say they don't want to do quests 5, 7, 9, times, months apart when they level toons up.. but yet, at top tier, there are only a handful of zones... and they have no problems doing THEM over and over again day after day....

[Grumble69]

feldon30 wrote:

Sure some of the details need to be worked out on hate lists and all that, and maybe the answer is a 1 minute invisible buff if you are contributing to the battle. But the overall concept has me thrilled.

The devil is always in the details.  SOE has a solid track record in taking an idea that sounds awesome on the surface, and falling flat on the implentation.  Yeah, the 1 minute buff that's been circulating around the player community sounds like an excellent solution to the problem.  It's not that SOE doesn't listen.  They just have stubborn, slow, prideful streak and the ideas never get implemented.

[Avianna]

as far as I can see this is good with the exception of mentored toons do not get the bonus XP? Why am I gonna be penilized for mentoring down and helping someone? or penilized for revisiting an older zone? or penilized for doing the chronomage questline? This is wrong and needs to be changed.

[Fifinella]

Just can the whole hate list and the mentoring penalts and all will be good.

The hatelist has never worked correctly and penalizes folks playing thier toons correctly while trying to move up as a group. I can't imagine why on earth SOE would want to discourage helping out lower level players.

[Ulrichvon]

feldon30 wrote:

I think people are interpreting my mention of Powerleveling as saying that this change is targeted at the PL gameplay style. I don't think it is.

I believe the purpose of this change is to wake up and realize that EQ2 has 9 years of content and that 1-89 content shouldn't be totally worthless except for reading quest dialogue. If we can actually group up with people of our own power/experience and run some zones and walk away with a few levels or a dozen AAs or so, then why would I ever go back to solo grinding Anathema or KoS zones? I dream about those zones and dread Double XP weekends.

Want to see what's wrong with XP now? It's a Double XP weekend. Type /who all and look at where everyone is. It's not healthy for the game for everyone to be off grinding respawning mobs in their own solo instances.

Sure some of the details need to be worked out on hate lists and all that, and maybe the answer is a 1 minute invisible buff if you are contributing to the battle. But the overall concept has me thrilled.

Feldon, I like you, but you're in denial.

These changes will not have people giving up powerleveling to group up for content that doesn't matter.  People are only interested in end-game, and if you make it slower for them to alt in end-game, they'll simply leave this game alltogether.

Let me be clear, we aren't interested in gearing up in tiers that don't matter, not interesting in upgrading any spells other than the top tier, etc, etc.  Trying to pigeonhole players that have been accustomed to how it is, into what you clearly see as a better world will only result in fewer people playing the game, and that is the LAST thing I want to see happen.

Given the choice between leaving things as is, or adopting the new changes, as much as *I* personally have lobbied for the group XP mechanic to be changed, I have to STRONGLY side with don't change anything.  The changes proposed will do more harm than good to the game.

-Atan@Unrest

[Ulrichvon]

Avianna@Butcherblock wrote:

as far as I can see this is good with the exception of mentored toons do not get the bonus XP? Why am I gonna be penilized for mentoring down and helping someone? or penilized for revisiting an older zone? or penilized for doing the chronomage questline? This is wrong and needs to be changed.

They made a statement along the lines of 'Chelsith will not be the best xp to get from 92 to 95'.

In order for that to be true, they needed to remove half the xp you get from Chelsith, so rather than making 92-95 content more rewarding, they're nerfing the ability to get XP off lower level content.

I understand why they're choosing to do this part.

[isest]

I hate they are messing up mentoring. On toons that I need AA on I mentor down and go run stuff.  Now they are going to mess me out of that. 

You know the old statement if it is not broken dont fix it.  They should leve this alone.

[Regolas]

Atan, Currently, with old xp mechanics, it is similar xp grouping in skyshrine contested as it is soloing chelsith mentored to 80. If we all get solo xp then skyshrine, and probably CoE dungeons, will be much better xp. I don't like the loosing of encounter xp for certain conditions. I don't get it. Fine by me to have bonus xp if on the hate list, but why take xp away at all?

[CoLD MeTaL]

Regolas wrote:

Atan, Currently, with old xp mechanics, it is similar xp grouping in skyshrine contested as it is soloing chelsith mentored to 80. If we all get solo xp then skyshrine, and probably CoE dungeons, will be much better xp. I don't like the loosing of encounter xp for certain conditions. I don't get it. Fine by me to have bonus xp if on the hate list, but why take xp away at all?

Until they draw enough people, and make PuGs viable, these changes will drive off more people than it will draw.

Servers are ghost towns, and people do not PuG anymore.

[Tommara]

Ulrichvon wrote:

Avianna@Butcherblock wrote:

as far as I can see this is good with the exception of mentored toons do not get the bonus XP? Why am I gonna be penilized for mentoring down and helping someone? or penilized for revisiting an older zone? or penilized for doing the chronomage questline? This is wrong and needs to be changed.

They made a statement along the lines of 'Chelsith will not be the best xp to get from 92 to 95'.

In order for that to be true, they needed to remove half the xp you get from Chelsith, so rather than making 92-95 content more rewarding, they're nerfing the ability to get XP off lower level content.

I understand why they're choosing to do this part.

This.  I've got a 92 pally who's PLed a lot of people and never because it was of benefit to me (exp or plat-wise), so these changes won't change my PLing decisions.  So the changes had me puzzled about what problem they are really trying to solve (aside from afk leveling, which is a no-brainer). 

The problem is that solo questing in Withered Lands + the new expansion won't get a level 90 to 92, and the expansion doesn't give enough solo questing experience to get a 92 to 93.

Chelsith is green to me at 92 and I've completed most, if not all, the level appropriate solo quests, so I'm guessing this is an attempt to force people like me to group.  Like people really want a tank who doesn't know the group zones.  I've been fine with that, although I frequently leave EQ2 for other games when I get bored. 

The exp change won't change that behavior either.  In fact, it will make it more likely.

[Regolas]

Coldmetal, I'm sorry your server is like that, but it's not on mine and I play on splitpaw that took a nose dive population wise because of the PSS1 debarcle. I play off peak generally, and I can still form a skyshrine contested or instance group 8/10 times. When I log on briefly at peak times, I always see PUGs forming for UD/ST/Skyshrine. PUGing isn't dead.

[Tommara]

Regolas wrote:

Coldmetal, I'm sorry your server is like that, but it's not on mine and I play on splitpaw that took a nose dive population wise because of the PSS1 debarcle. I play off peak generally, and I can still form a skyshrine contested or instance group 8/10 times. When I log on briefly at peak times, I always see PUGs forming for UD/ST/Skyshrine. PUGing isn't dead.

With a level 90 toon?  If so, what class?

[Vlahkmaak]

Most of the toons getting power leveled are being done so for the express purpose of replacing lost raid members due to high turn over rates as the population continues to decline.  Most people have run the content multiple times.  If I am powerleveling peoples alt bards/chanters its for a reason and that reason is not to run through Chelsith for the billionth time to gain a few levels and kill the nameds and loot their awesome loots - its because those classes (usually bard/chanter # 737) are needed  elsewhere.  Those toons were not going to group with you anyhow in those levels.

[Tommara]

Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote:

Most of the toons getting power leveled are being done so for the express purpose of replacing lost raid members due to high turn over rates as the population continues to decline.  Most people have run the content multiple times.  If I am powerleveling peoples alt bards/chanters its for a reason and that reason is not to run through Chelsith for the billionth time to gain a few levels and kill the nameds and loot their awesome loots - its because those classes (usually bard/chanter # 737) are needed  elsewhere.  Those toons were not going to group with you anyhow in those levels.

Agreed, even for us scrubs.  The sole reason I've power leveled toons is to get friends and guildies out of content where they must solo, and possibly into content that interests my higher level toons.  And the fact that I really, really like playing my paladin, and that's all she is good for now.

[Zergosch]

Do i remember correct " Play you´re way!" ? ? ?

Why people have to be forced to play it theire way ^^

[Avianna]

In guild wars 2 the experience is not split between or cauculated based upon how many people are in your group, everyone is awarded xp individually whether they hit the mob once in a group or soloed it themselves same xp. No monthly subscription, better graphics, and most importantly a team that listens to their playerbase... Sounding more and more appealing to me every day.

Only thing keeping me here is not wanting to start over again, not wanting to lose my friends in guild, and a genuine enjoyment of the game for what it was, what it is becoming is nothing more than me sitting in my office chair and having to smack SOE's hand every ten seconds because they are reaching for my wallet. Sad but true.

[CoLD MeTaL]

Regolas wrote:

Coldmetal, I'm sorry your server is like that, but it's not on mine and I play on splitpaw that took a nose dive population wise because of the PSS1 debarcle. I play off peak generally, and I can still form a skyshrine contested or instance group 8/10 times. When I log on briefly at peak times, I always see PUGs forming for UD/ST/Skyshrine. PUGing isn't dead.

Are you a raider in raid gear?

[Ulrichvon]

Regolas wrote:

Atan, I don't like the loosing of encounter xp for certain conditions. I don't get it. Fine by me to have bonus xp if on the hate list, but why take xp away at all?

Yeah, I don't get it either.  In all honesty, its the hatelist thing that really bothers me.  I think it will impact new players, I think it will adversely impact current players, and I think it grossly impacts people who like to PL their own alts.

All of which, in the end spells less players still playing the game.  Its just the wrong idea.  Alting is a huge part of player retention, and its not the leveling up of alts that people find fun and entertaining.  Its the process of getting all the end-tier factions, gear, etc, etc needed to reach the toons real potential.  We enjoy seeing if we can make an alt wizard as good as the wizard buddy you raid with.   And all the time invested in doing that activity is a very enjoyable treaedmill that keeps players playing EQ2 MUCH, MUCH longer than they will otherwise.

I sincerely think, if they really still played their game they'd understand why this isn't the best sollution for the problem they are attempting to solve.  But alas, thats a dead horse at this point.