Any Devs Wanna Explain Test->Live Transfers

[Cyanbane]

WeatherMan wrote:

Menaelin wrote:

Well ... I see what you're saying. But if I'm going to quibble, I'd say that it's my own personal view that such niceties only serve to ingratiate outraged people, to quell their outrage and make them feel that all is okay, when really it isn't. For me, that's more of a sign that a company is engaging in "business as usual" than anything SOE has done up until now. It may make these outraged folks feel a little better, but it doesn't necessarily mean that anything is REALLY BEING DONE to quell their anger. It's just the soothing effect of expected utterances. Do these outraged folks really want to be treated like that? Smoothed over by legalistic jargon and false apologies? That's the real question that bears consideration here, I think.

Actually, in many ways, it could be constructed as more than just a 'nicety'.  In this instance, there would be identifiable documentation that has been posted on the forums that could be referred back to as evidence of a pledge to insure that this situation (or similar 'lapses', regardless of whether one believes it was an ethical failing or not) does not occur again - and you can be sure that some people would, at the very least, record all the particulars of the post, by screenshot or what have you, as evidence against a possible future 'breach'.  Its all very fine and well to proclaim it nothing more than a panacea to the outraged masses, but even here on the boards, the 'representative sample' example holds true.  The people who have a definitive opinion on the issue, no matter which side of it they land on, represent only those who keep up on the tribulations of SOE and what it does in regards to its player base.  It is also a truism that, were every single SOE customer to suddenly be made aware of what has occurred, that the representative sample you see played out here now would also have similar divisions in the whole of the community.  I.e., some would rush to defend SOE, some would simply not give a rip, and the rest (and I am of the mind, the great majority) would indeed view it as a violation of SOE's rules and policies by SOE.As stated before, for every voice we hear on this board, eight to ten others 'vote in silence'.  They either resolve to stick it out, or just call up their account, click 'Cancel', and then go play City of Heroes or WoW or whatever.  Regardless of our position on the issue, SOE is going to lose more than just 'a few accounts' over this.  As many of these accounts don't expire right away, it may be a while before the effects are noticed, but they will be there, and SOE is going to notice.  Whether it is just a huge hole in the road or a gaping canyon to them remains to be seen.The apology was worded in a way that leaves one wondering if the blame was indeed trying to be cast on the player base for their anger, not in a bland, clinical manner that would have avoided this whole thing.He said "I find myself apologizing..."He did not say "Sony Online Entertainment apologizes..."The first way came out as easily perceived as annoyed and petulant.  I am not saying that was what was intended - I am saying that it is incredibly easy to read it that way.  The second way may not actually convey feelings of actual regret over the incident, but it does not convey the feeling that the new honcho is trying to blame us for being upset. And really, who in their right mind would actually believe that SOE was actually sorry for all of this, much less say it?  But a bland, noncommittal response that conveyed absolutely no emotion or regret whatsoever would have been a much wiser choice.  Something that would have certainly made it past the legal-wording hacks and still manage to avoid inflaming a sense of outrage.  You can apologize and not be the least bit sorry - people do it all the time.  And I am willing to bet no one actually expects any true feelings of remorse (beyond those for getting caught) - but I do think they would like an apology that comes out without an undercurrent of bitterness.The undercurrent was there.  And in truth, I really don't blame the man for being bitter.  I doubt that he himself had much, if anything, to do with this little bork-up, but he is the one who gets to handle the backlash.  His job pretty much insures that he is the target who will be set up on the firing range for incidents like this, to cover the behinds of people like the ethics-challenged fruitcake executive who ordered the transfer in the first place.  That executive is the one who has serious integrity flaws - and like it or not, we are not going to learn his name or what happened to him as a result of this incident.  The likely answer is 'nothing will happen to him', but we are never going to know.  I understand this, I have accepted this, and I am not at all surprised it happened.The others who have serious ethics and integrity failings are those members of the guild who knew that what was being done was against policy, and that they were being given a handout - especially their guild leader, who has, by all accounts, been demonstrating his lack of ability at being an ethical and honest human being.  It was nothing they'd earned, it was nothing they should have expected, and it was nothing they should have agreed to.  If anyone goes to Test Server, they are presented with the rules and expectations of the server when they log in - it is not our fault that they did not bother to read the rules.  That is the only excuse they have for 'not knowing', and it does not release them from their culpability.  I play on Test Server from time to time, and if a part-timer like me can read these rules and understand them, one would think that a dedicated Tester would eventually figure it out.Further information coming to light has painted a rather grim picture of these so-called guild 'leaders', including threats and blackmail attempts against the whistle-blower (not to mention some rather unflattering posts across the Internet).  SOE may not be be the ones doing it, but like the bartender who serves a drunken driver too many drinks before the man drives home, they share in the culpability for these things happening.  Perhaps not in a legal sense where they can be penalized, but the culpability is there.  And with the guild leader and his cronies behaving in this fashion, how in Creation's name did they get the moniker of 'valued members of Test Server' when so many other hard-working, attentive, and diligent Testers were mooned by SOE when this guild was transferred to Unrest?A side note on all of this...we at least know that SOE has some employees besides Domino that have a sense of honor and integrity.  The coder who did the transfer did so pretty much 'at gunpoint' - I'm sure if he'd refused, he'd have been pink-slipped (and he may have been, anyway).  And he did everything he could, by all accounts, to lessen the damage that the transfer would have.  Why?  Because he knew the 'gun at his head' was a violation of ethics.  And there are apparently some junior devs that did not approve of this that are (understandably) exceedingly unhappy that they now get to be tarred with the same brush as the ones who oredered the transfer.  They can also be counted among the true victims of this fiasco.I don't expect any real resolution of this until Tuesday morning, earliest - assuming we get any real resolution, that is.And I'm not holding my breath.  Yes, the transfers were nullified, the characters wiped, and so on...but we are not likely to ever see any sort of complete closure whatsoever on this.  It's simply the way SOE 'does things'.  And I've come to understand this.

I don't think you are a WeatherMan at all, I think you are a LawyerMan!Good points though, I do agree this is probably the end we will see of this from SOE. 

[WeatherMan]

Cyanbane wrote:

I don't think you are a WeatherMan at all, I think you are a LawyerMan!" />Good points though, I do agree this is probably the end we will see of this from SOE. 

OUCH!LawyerMan???  Take that back or...or...I'll do...something... *threatens Cyanbane with William Shatner's Greatest Hits*But yes - SOE will sweep it under the rug - again.  There will be no closure - again.  For them, it's business as usual - again.

[Magliana]

Balbob wrote:

I'm not calling people liars, but all this "I'm cancelling my account over this" is a bit hard to believe.  I'm sure a few people who've been crapped on before might decide this is the last straw, but I have a hard time believing that everyone who has said they're going to cancel will actually do it.  Heat of the moment spouting off at the mouth, I presume.

I understand why people have gotten so upset, but a lot of these posts are still complaining about dev posts that are over 35 hours old.  Let's get over Bruce's lack of communication skills, or bad attitude, or whatever you want to call it and focus on the meat of the matter.

What has been done so far?  Are the copied toons still on Unrest?  Are the tainted items still on the broker?  Have they done anything that Bruce said they would do?

For me, that's what matters now.  They promised a solution.  Are they following through with it?

Yes we really quit playing test and the other servers we abandoned - several of us are on LOTR if you'd like to come join us.

 When we get 1-a rectification of the original situation, 2-assurances it won't happen again and 3-a REAL apology we'll be back.

Until then, yes - we really actually left.

 Magliana

[Magliana]

WeatherMan wrote:

Cyanbane wrote:

I don't think you are a WeatherMan at all, I think you are a LawyerMan!">Good points though, I do agree this is probably the end we will see of this from SOE. 

OUCH!LawyerMan???  Take that back or...or...I'll do...something... *threatens Cyanbane with William Shatner's Greatest Hits*But yes - SOE will sweep it under the rug - again.  There will be no closure - again.  For them, it's business as usual - again.

Oh I certainly hope not. There are several - many who have contacted me privately after my original post even (page 55), who are just waiting until Monday to see what SOE says. What they (soe) chooses to do tomorrow directly effects the course of action these people will take.

More of the same (or nothing at all) = canceled.

Take responsibility and COMMUNICATE (novel concept I know) = not canceled.

 The choice is SOE's - if they have the guts to say what needs to be said and DO what needs to be done they can make a huge difference. Otherwise....

Magliana

[Jeridor]

Magliana wrote:

WeatherMan wrote:

Cyanbane wrote:

I don't think you are a WeatherMan at all, I think you are a LawyerMan!">Good points though, I do agree this is probably the end we will see of this from SOE. 

OUCH!LawyerMan???  Take that back or...or...I'll do...something... *threatens Cyanbane with William Shatner's Greatest Hits*But yes - SOE will sweep it under the rug - again.  There will be no closure - again.  For them, it's business as usual - again.

Oh I certainly hope not. There are several - many who have contacted me privately after my original post even (page 55), who are just waiting until Monday to see what SOE says. What they (soe) chooses to do tomorrow directly effects the course of action these people will take.

More of the same (or nothing at all) = canceled.

Take responsibility and COMMUNICATE (novel concept I know) = not canceled.

 The choice is SOE's - if they have the guts to say what needs to be said and DO what needs to be done they can make a huge difference. Otherwise....

Magliana

I already canceled, my actual subscription runs out Wednesday. I figure I should know what SOE's approach on this will be going forward by then, and don't plan to check back on what's going on beyond that point if they've chosen to ignore or blow off the issues raised.

[samhain-r]

I have nothing to do with the server this happened on, nor have I ever played on Test Center.   Either way, this is a situation where consumer trust has been betrayed.

 In the past SOE made certain that character moves from servers with different rulesets would never be allowed because of the advantages/disadvantages those rulesets allow.     It is most definitely not fair for 2 groups of people:  1) the rest of the people on test who want to play on a real server who don't have inside friends to transfer accounts for them.. so they need to reroll and regrind like every other customer who doesn't have SOE employees as friends.   2) The people on the server, who all the sudden had a whole guild insta-spawn on their server from another server with a much easier ruleset.  Absolutely shafted.

Now, taking things one step further, its not fair for people on other servers who wish to cross rulesets because of any range of reasons.   I started playing on Nagafen (PVP) server at launch.  PVP was wonderful at launch, but since SOE pretty much made mentoring on PVP servers useless with the non-pvp combat while mentoring, I have had 100's of friends quit EQ2 and go on to GW, or go back to WoW, whatever.

So now, I'm stuck on a PVP server and on my 4th round of trying to find new people to play with because a new round of friends have recently quit.    I would like to transfer to a server where I can mentor and be mentored and play together.  (PS if they did ever fix mentoring on pvp servers.. tons of ppl would come back).

I'm sure there were people who started on the exchange servers anticipating larger pops that want to transfer to non exchange servers. I agree that everyone should have to reroll and start over, but if you make exceptions for people on test, you need to make exceptions in all hardship cases.

I would like to see the right thing be done and have these accounts transferred back and the players can start over like anyone else would have to.. but if you let them stay, not only will you be alienating a lot of your other customers, but you've pretty much displayed a complete lack of integrity when it comes to consumer trust and confidence.

I also think there should be some sort of external audit of the GM ranks to investigate if the accusations of GM's giving them gear, coin, etc has ever gone beyond the test server.  

And yes, I have just cancelled my account in protest.  

[Maroger]

samhain-rpk wrote:

I would like to see the right thing be done and have these accounts transferred back and the players can start over like anyone else would have to.. but if you let them stay, not only will you be alienating a lot of your other customers, but you've pretty much displayed a complete lack of integrity when it comes to consumer trust and confidence.

I also think there should be some sort of external audit of the GM ranks to investigate if the accusations of GM's giving them gear, coin, etc has ever gone beyond the test server.  

I think that SOE needs to say something other than blaming the community for misinterpreting a "kindness". It wasn't a kindness it was an ethical violation and a violation of SOE's own rules. They need to acknowledge that. I don't that after what Bruce wrote, he is the best person to post again. I think it should come from a smoother, smarter hand like Smedley -- I believe he will know what to stay without stepping on himself.

Despite saying that the situation would be "reversed" there is evidence elsewhere on less restricted forums that indicate that this is not totally the case. That needs to be rectified. Even if it means deleting the whole guild and all its members -- sure the innocent will be punished, but based on the reputation that is told of UT how innocent can someone be who joined that guild? Also I think the guild leader, this Lucky, should be banned -- he is hardly the sort of player that will enhance any game with his presence.

Also I would like to see whoever was responsible for this be fired, although I know that will not happen or if does we will never know about it. But I don't think such a person should totally escape the responsibilities for what he had done. Leaving him in his current position could pose an enticement to repeat the performance with another "kindness" to his friends.

SOE will do whatever it wants, but this is not the sort of thing that will disappear even if they choose to ignore everyone and lock the thread. These sort of scandals just don't fade away - they fester elsewhere. ANd they are remembered.

[Jeepned2]

OK, I read the first two pages then just jump to the end.  This thread is absolutely the funniest I've read in a long time.I can not believe how up tight so many people have gotten over this, especially those of you like me who have played EQ1 and EQ2 for years.  If you are new to Sony then I can almost understand your comments.  How many other times has Sony broken their own rules and just thrown it in our faces? (ummm, dang only have 10 fingers and 10 toes).  How many times has Sony not cared about how the community at large would react to "slight mod" to the rules? (Dang, calculator ran out of batteries!)  How many times have we heard and verified "special treatment" for a few with friends at Sony? (Hey NASA, can I borrow your Super Computer?)Come on folks, does this surprise you, shock you?  Will it come as a surprise or shock that it gets swept under the rug?  Will it surprise you if Sony ignores this issue, or gives some lame explanation?All I can say is I don't find this at all unexpected.  Not only that, I'm sure in the near future there will be another uproar about something just like this... ah, let's say within the next six months.  And then you can re-hash the same arguments and get the same song and dance from Sony.  But I'll bet you 10 to 1 that you still pay the next month's bill to keep playing.BTW, Merry Christmas to the "Honest" players on Unrest.  Hope you love Sony's Christmas gift to you.

[KukawKukaw]

Ok i did not read every post by any means, but i did read the first few pages and skimmed thru what i could and there were a few post from peeps in RED text.  So from what i gather it actualy did happen. I dont realy actualy care about it except from the point of that " This IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN". So what is beining done?  If there has been a post of a resalution to this then can someone link it again?Thnx Kuk

[Jeridor]

I have to say that I am especially surprised at SOE's nonchalant attitude toward this issue given how closely it is tied to Legends of Norrath. Let's face it, SOE is making money hand over fist on LoN. But, LoN is directly tied to EQ1/2 and a lot of the money they make is tied to loot cards. What happens when suits in the ranks of the company decide it would be a "kindness" on such upstanding citizens to hand them a fistful of loot cards. Would those who paid good money to get theirs feel betrayed? What if a "kindness" consists of items normally gained by paying $10 a pop for LoN tourneys, but a couple dozen get these items free?

I don't spend as much as some, but I've thrown down maybe $40-50 on LoN in the last month, in addition to my station access account, in addition to my extras like eq2players, in addition to all the boxes I buy - including vanguard which I played all of a week, or SWG which they butchered, and so on. As I've mentioned, I was aboutt to buy a new EQ2 box and open a second account. I literally just hurl money at SOE and have had a good time doing it. THAT'S the people SOE should be worried about being happy, and even then I would -never- accept a "kindness" like this. Never.

You really have to wonder about this whole ordeal. Think about this:

- The UT testers were deemed SO important and valuable to the EQ2 developers that they warranted an act not only unprecedented, but that would require a complete 180 in policy, and this was granted without public notice.

- By the same token, the response to SOE has been overwhelmingly negative, worsened after their postings, and the Test server's population is being decimated. This SO important facility is in ruins and yet SOE hasn't said a word.

So how can anyone possibly think that SOE's priority was the Test server, or its playerbase, and not just UT because of who whomever knows? This whole "we as a company decided this was a good idea" garbage doesn't fly. SOE needs to admit as much, and do something about it. Otherwise the whole company - the whole brand - is taking a bullet for one person's cause.

[Jeridor]

KukawKukaw wrote:

Ok i did not read every post by any means, but i did read the first few pages and skimmed thru what i could and there were a few post from peeps in RED text.  So from what i gather it actualy did happen. I dont realy actualy care about it except from the point of that " This IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN". So what is beining done?  If there has been a post of a resalution to this then can someone link it again?Thnx Kuk

Yes, below I will paste a posting by Bruce Ferguson, who as of Friday, is the new Senior Producer for EQ2. It should be noted that the departure of the former Sr. Producer, Scott "Gallenite" Hartsman, had nothing to do with this event by all appearances. It was rumored he'd be leaving SOE soon for the past couple weeks at least.

---------------unedited post from Bruce Ferguson:---------------

There has been quite a bit of discussion recently about something we were doing to show kindness to some valued members of our testing community who have been working diligently to improve EverQuest II for the last three years.

What we did was take a group of characters from the test server, scrub them by hand of all test gear, and any 'privileged' equipment, titles, etc, and grant their wish to continue to play as a group of friends, on a live server.   

Had we been aware that being a little extra kind to these folks would cause such an uproar, there is no doubt we would not have taken this step. However, due to the current situation, I find myself apologizing to you for allowing this situation to occur.

We are in the process now of removing the characters that we copied to the live servers. Obviously, we overstepped the bounds of kindness in attempting to thank these people for their efforts in testing, and we are working to rectify this situation before the end of the day today.

Thank you,

Bruce "Froech" Ferguson

Senior Producer, EverQuest II

---------------end unedited post from Bruce Ferguson:---------------

This is the last word offered, and might be the last word period. It was posted 3:27PM on Friday, and since then, no postings directed at this issue have been made. It should be noted that according to documentary evidence available in this thread and on eq2flames, it would appear lots of powerful gear was not scrubbed as indicated. As you can see, only the issue of the transfer was responded to, not any issues related to accusations of GM-powers given to one person for his personal use, and so on.

[MrWolfie]

Jeepned2 wrote:

OK, I read the first two pages then just jump to the end.  This thread is absolutely the funniest I've read in a long time.I can not believe how up tight so many people have gotten over this, especially those of you like me who have played EQ1 and EQ2 for years.  If you are new to Sony then I can almost understand your comments.  How many other times has Sony broken their own rules and just thrown it in our faces? (ummm, dang only have 10 fingers and 10 toes).  How many times has Sony not cared about how the community at large would react to "slight mod" to the rules? (Dang, calculator ran out of batteries!)  How many times have we heard and verified "special treatment" for a few with friends at Sony? (Hey NASA, can I borrow your Super Computer?)Come on folks, does this surprise you, shock you?  Will it come as a surprise or shock that it gets swept under the rug?  Will it surprise you if Sony ignores this issue, or gives some lame explanation?All I can say is I don't find this at all unexpected.  Not only that, I'm sure in the near future there will be another uproar about something just like this... ah, let's say within the next six months.  And then you can re-hash the same arguments and get the same song and dance from Sony.  But I'll bet you 10 to 1 that you still pay the next month's bill to keep playing.BTW, Merry Christmas to the "Honest" players on Unrest.  Hope you love Sony's Christmas gift to you.

Well, obviously, you don't care enough.If you're prepared to be shafted time and again, and pay for it, and then say "Thank you very much, Mr SOE", I guess you deserve everything that's coming to you.Personally, I believe that if people don't speak up, then bad behaviour will happen again and again. Here in business, in school, in government, in the world. The reason wars happen is because no-one does anything about the small transgressions (and while this is not the place for discussions about world politics, illegal wars, torture, kidnapping or global warming*; this is the EQ2 forums: the best and only place to bring this matter to conclusion).Really, if you're not willing to stand up for what you believe in, then you must either be a coward, someone who believes in nothing at all, or must not understand what morality and ethics are.I'd like to see some of these devs stand up and renounce the events of the last week ~ I would never have backed down to my employers if they'd done something wrong. It'd have been my reputation on the line too. I want a flood of red names posting here in condemnation of this abuse of power.Let's see if Truth, Justice and Honor mean *anything* at all to ALL the people at SOE.PS. If they had removed Ratonga from the game, that would not be half as bad as what they have done! Die, Ratonga. Die. Die. Die. Kerrans own you little mouses!

*all things YOU should be doing something about, BTW.

[Thay]

Well, it's now Monday morning and the Devs should be in in the next few hours so let's see if they deign to grace us with their presence...

Recap:

SOE Employee is in UT guild and asks a Dev to move the entire guild (and alt guild) from Test Server to Live Server (which is a major "no-no", according to SOE)

Dev says "No Way, man! That's wrong!"

SOE Employee say's "Oh Yeah?! I'll get a hook up from my buddy!"

SOE Exec gives direct order to Dev to "make it happen"

Dev says, "whatever..." and moves them

Someone notices the move and makes a post about it.

Many are outraged at the blatant favoritism shown to UT Guild by SOE and post about it

UT Guild member tells everyone to [Removed for Content] if they don't like it

GMs make lame attempt at apologizing, and do it so badly that they cause even more disgust and discontent.

New producer makes his first post and,

1 Insults the Test Server Players2 Lies to the Entire EQ2 Community3 Causes many to cancel their account

You have two sides arguing back and forth over the appropriateness of the move with those opposed stating that it taints the Live Server to have those people and their ill-gotten masters and gear and plat thrown onto a Live server. You also have the other camp, the SOE Fanbois, who complain about those complaining. They see nothing wrong with anything SOE does and will never realize the only difference between butt-kissing and brown nosing is depth perception.

So let's sit back and see what transpires today.

[Tokam]

Devs, when are you going to remove Unhallowed Triad from Unrest? When are you going to remove the rest of the copied over players and the loot / plat that they brough twith them and have distributed to Unrest placeholders?

There are still some charaters on Unrest with very suspicious profiles.

[NiteWolfe]

 Iam on the verge of canceling all my accounts also. Really the only reason i have not is my friends and the vain hope that soe will fix this. If my guild said right now hey lets move to another game over this i would be gone and never look back! Some are saying why does this matter so much to some of us its only a game. Well to some of us its more than just a game. For me its the major part of my day and night time actiivty. I know get a life right? Well being home bound disabled there is really very little i can do other than sit in front of my computer and play games. In a lot of ways online games are my therapy. In these games i can do all the stuff i cant do due to my disablities. I only play ONE online game at a time i dont have other game accounts. I have play a lot of them over the years and sadly yes this unethical behavor happens in most of the gameing companies and is usualy when i decided its time to move on. In TSO it was when they fire the man who created the game due to his refusing to modify it to the companies liking. In daoc it was when they sold out to EA after promising the player base they would NEVER sell to EA for any amount of money (they sold 1 month after telling us this). Now iam sitting here with the same feelings i had when i left those games.  But here iam closer to the friends i have than i was in those games even though i have been here for less time than i was in those. I have responciblities to them and my guild that i find very hard to walk away from. So i have not hitthe cancel button yet and dont know if i will reguardless of the outcome.  I just dont understand why gaming companies are so diferant from other ones. where ethics are important, interigty and dedication to the costumers is important. We are after all why these companies exist. Please bare with me while i try to make the next thoughts make sense.I have heard so many refering to this as hey this is what friends do for each other and its what friends are for ( the hooking each other up and doing speciel favors) and this just flat out makes me sick! that is NOT what friends are for that is USING some one! I hang with my friends because i like them i like being around them and enjoy there company. NOT because of what they can do for me or what hook up of speciel favors they could do for me! I would NEVER think to ask one of them for a hook up and there are some real life friends i have that could do some major hook ups. Its just not ethical or right to use and abuse a friendship like that! Iam still hoping this will be fixed as of right now the alts of these players and probly there brought over plat and items are still on unrest. granted the copies are gone or so it appears there is a question of some of the alt guild members who on eq2players are completely anon that we can not see. Half the alt guild have chossen to HIDE themselfs from being looked into by the player base. Even the eq2players site seems odd because some of those members seem to have even found ways to hide there names completely where as usualy you can at lest see the names but not the gear. This leads a lot of us to beleive that some speciel favors are still inplace and going on. I do not feel sorry for the so called inocent members of these 2 guilds they were not large guilds. 50 players is not a large guild and there is no reason to know know what is going on in YOUR  guild when its this small. They choose to where this guild tag!  To me this is no diferant than if the guild had found a way to dupe plat and items then use them to help them advance and level there players. If this had been a dupe the alt guild and all its players would had been banned but instead since it was a soe favor they get to keep it and stay! Well thats my rant for now ill see how this all plays outPS, iam sorry if this is disjointed and badly typed. My disablities make typing hard and my thoughts often disjointed and hard to orginize at times when iam stressed out.(CIDP) if you must know.

[WeatherMan]

Tokamak wrote:

Devs, when are you going to remove Unhallowed Triad from Unrest? When are you going to remove the rest of the copied over players and the loot / plat that they brough twith them and have distributed to Unrest placeholders?

There are still some charaters on Unrest with very suspicious profiles.

Okay...as one of the most frequent critics on this board, I think this needs to be said:It is about 6 AM Pacific as I write this.  In my opinion, the devs are, at best, filling their coffee cups and settling in for the day.  Good money says a majority of them haven't read this thread, and in fact are probably going to be wincing at the length, analysis, and (let's be honest here) venom contained in it.  I'm not saying the anger and vitriol are unwarranted, but they are there.  It is not difficult to believe that even if heads do not roll, more than one person is going to be feeling more than a wee bit uncomfortable - if for no other reason than the corporate bigwigs have to 'put up' with the outcry over this fiasco.  Shyte rolls downhill, after all.In my opinion, the best we can hope for in the short term is a post by Grimwell or someone in a similar level of authority, telling us that they have taken the matter to the company executives overseeing EQ2, and are waiting on a final decision.  As much as I share the feeling of wanting an answer right the now, we do need to give them some time to assimilate and digest what has gone on here over the weekend, and to comprehend just how bad a mistake was made.  As well as to figure out exactly what needs to be done to rectify the situation, and how they intend to implement it.Over 75 pages, 7 posts out of 10 (at least) in that thread expressing 'disapproval' of what has happened is not the pizzing and moaning of some issue-laden malcontents.  We feel we were kicked in the teeth.Let's give them some time to start repairs on our dental work.Oh...on a different topic:  Kerrans...pffft. 

[Tokam]

I was merely asking when this particular task is going to be completed, not demanding that someone be sacked because it has not already been done so.

edit: english not my first language apparently

[Jeepned2]

MrWolfie wrote:

Well, obviously, you don't care enough.If you're prepared to be shafted time and again, and pay for it, and then say "Thank you very much, Mr SOE", I guess you deserve everything that's coming to you. (I'll answer these two last)Personally, I believe that if people don't speak up, then bad behaviour will happen again and again. (Bad behavior wlll happen again and again, this is Sony we are talking about.) Here in business, in school, in government, in the world. The reason wars happen is because no-one does anything about the small transgressions (and while this is not the place for discussions about world politics, illegal wars, torture, kidnapping or global warming*; this is the EQ2 forums: the best and only place to bring this matter to conclusion). (Conclusion? Yeah you are about to see this matter to conclusion in a day or two. Sony will make some small, lame posting and that will be their last response. You must have a limited definition of conclusion.)Really, if you're not willing to stand up for what you believe in, then you must either be a coward, someone who believes in nothing at all, or must not understand what morality and ethics are. ( 20 year military retiree, so don't consider myself a coward, I firmly believe in Sony's unwillingness to allow this to change how they want to do business in anyway, and yes I do understand what morality and ethics are, I just don't feel that Sony does. )I'd like to see some of these devs stand up and renounce the events of the last week (you are joking right? If any do, I'll have to quit the game due to massive shock) ~ I would never have backed down to my employers if they'd done something wrong. It'd have been my reputation on the line too. I want a flood of red names posting here in condemnation of this abuse of power.Let's see if Truth, Justice and Honor mean *anything* at all to ALL the people at SOE. ( I'm going to guess that you are a lot younger them me. When I was in the military we use to talk about TJ&H a lot.  Then I got out of the military and ran face first into the corporate world.  A corporate world that only use those three words if they help sell their product. )PS. If they had removed Ratonga from the game, that would not be half as bad as what they have done! Die, Ratonga. Die. Die. Die. Kerrans own you little mouses! So do I not care what Sony has pulled here? Do I just accept this as another shaft by Sony and move on? Without taking your "HOLY CRUSADER" and "CAPTAIN FANTASTIC" (Bombombombom!!) attitude, yes I care. For over seven years I have. But don't see this as an instance worth the fight. Not yet anyway.  The major point of my previous posting was how amazed I was that there where people who where shocked, surprised and outraged by what happened.  If you have followed the antics of Sony over the years, you simply can't be shocked by this.  BTW, your holier then thou attitude came across just a little strong and was pretty annoying. And if what Sony did bugs you that much, be the Truth, Justice and Honor Man and cancel you're subscription and move on, cause the only pain Sony feels is in dollars.

[john7101]

once again lied to.typical SOE.these people ought to be returned to TEST. forget cutting levels in half. they should be returned to TEST.they should NEVER have been sent to a live server.they wouldn't have been had not an SOE GM been playing with them on TEST.

[MrWolfie]

Jeepned2 wrote:

MrWolfie wrote:

Well, obviously, you don't care enough.If you're prepared to be shafted time and again, and pay for it, and then say "Thank you very much, Mr SOE", I guess you deserve everything that's coming to you. (I'll answer these two last)So do I not care what Sony has pulled here? Do I just accept this as another shaft by Sony and move on? Without taking your "HOLY CRUSADER" and "CAPTAIN FANTASTIC" (Bombombombom!!) attitude, yes I care. For over seven years I have. But don't see this as an instance worth the fight. Not yet anyway.  The major point of my previous posting was how amazed I was that there where people who where shocked, surprised and outraged by what happened.  If you have followed the antics of Sony over the years, you simply can't be shocked by this.  BTW, your holier then thou attitude came across just a little strong and was pretty annoying. And if what Sony did bugs you that much, be the Truth, Justice and Honor Man and cancel you're subscription and move on, cause the only pain Sony feels is in dollars.

So your answer is "yes, I'll take this shafting and plenty more".Thanks for keeping it short.I wonder how it is that I can get you annoyed with a few words, but not the people who take your money and abuse your trust. Just how far do they have to go to get you riled?

[rvbarton]

I just want to know what Sony is going to do about this...  Anything?  Something?  Nothing?  Are they going to hope it simply goes away? 

I now wonder, does Sony care about the opinion of it's general populace?

[Kuulei]

Look they deleted Unholy Trinity (the copied guild) and they deleted all the copies, they even deleted a lot of legit characters that had been on Unrest since October. They did this on FRIDAY.  Perhaps no one is posting from SoE because they did thier job already? Unhallowed Triad was started on Unrest, October 24th.  A full 6 weeks prior to the copies taking place.  Give it a rest.  I sincerely believe many are posting with no clue of this.

[Maroger]

Kuulei wrote:

Look they deleted Unholy Trinity (the copied guild) and they deleted all the copies, they even deleted a lot of legit characters that had been on Unrest since October. They did this on FRIDAY.  Perhaps no one is posting from SoE because they did thier job already? Unhallowed Triad was started on Unrest, October 24th.  A full 6 weeks prior to the copies taking place.  Give it a rest.  I sincerely believe many are posting with no clue of this.

Was the UT guild created on Unrest with the foreknowledge of your transfer from Test? So you wanted to have your new home all set up and ready to roll when the copies took place? Why is Lucky, the obvious instigator of all this trouble still allowed to play?

I suspect that if he were just another player and did not have connections "in high places" he would have been banned, which is what should happen.

[Vis]

Froech wrote:

There has been quite a bit of discussion recently about something we were doing to show kindness to some valued members of our testing community who have been working diligently to improve EverQuest II for the last three years.

What we did was take a group of characters from the test server, scrub them by hand of all test gear, and any 'privileged' equipment, titles, etc, and grant their wish to continue to play as a group of friends, on a live server.   

Had we been aware that being a little extra kind to these folks would cause such an uproar, there is no doubt we would not have taken this step. However, due to the current situation, I find myself apologizing to you for allowing this situation to occur.

We are in the process now of removing the characters that we copied to the live servers. Obviously, we overstepped the bounds of kindness in attempting to thank these people for their efforts in testing, and we are working to rectify this situation before the end of the day today.

Thank you,

Bruce "Froech" Ferguson

Senior Producer, EverQuest II

This has to be the WORST reply from a Dev I have EVER seen.Guilt trip us some more please!"We're sorry our act of kindness has upset you. We just wanted to be kind out of kindness to these wonderful people and let them play togehter as friends, to be kind."Debt collectors could be kind too. Wipe your debt from the system, maybe noone will notice. Is it right? No it's not!All of you are sorry, but you're only sorry because you got caught.

[Nulgara]

either that or they started leveling up a guild and realized oh crap you actually do have to work to do this and then asked for the transfer.Either way my only response to their characters being deleted is ... GOOD

[Kenazeer]

Maroger wrote:

Kuulei wrote:

Look they deleted Unholy Trinity (the copied guild) and they deleted all the copies, they even deleted a lot of legit characters that had been on Unrest since October. They did this on FRIDAY.  Perhaps no one is posting from SoE because they did thier job already? Unhallowed Triad was started on Unrest, October 24th.  A full 6 weeks prior to the copies taking place.  Give it a rest.  I sincerely believe many are posting with no clue of this.

Was the UT guild created on Unrest with the foreknowledge of your transfer from Test? So you wanted to have your new home all set up and ready to roll when the copies took place?

I believe they have indicated that at least a protion did not believe the copies would take place and were just rolling new toons. Unfortunately there has been some friendly fire.

[Tokam]

If U Triad was indeed started on unrest then I apologise for the above, seems that maybe you guys should have just chosen this route from the start, no?

The above being correct there are only a few questions really to be resolved. Is all the plat from test and then transfered to legic characters gone, are you going to apologise to the rest of the test community for the slap in the face, are you going to comment on the legitimacy with which some of these items were obtained.

With this kind of attitude towards their more 'favoured' clients it is small wonder that plat selling is so prevelant.

[Cadori Seraphim]

MrWolfie wrote:

Jeepned2 wrote:

MrWolfie wrote:

Well, obviously, you don't care enough.If you're prepared to be shafted time and again, and pay for it, and then say "Thank you very much, Mr SOE", I guess you deserve everything that's coming to you. (I'll answer these two last)So do I not care what Sony has pulled here? Do I just accept this as another shaft by Sony and move on? Without taking your "HOLY CRUSADER" and "CAPTAIN FANTASTIC" (Bombombombom!!) attitude, yes I care. For over seven years I have. But don't see this as an instance worth the fight. Not yet anyway.  The major point of my previous posting was how amazed I was that there where people who where shocked, surprised and outraged by what happened.  If you have followed the antics of Sony over the years, you simply can't be shocked by this.  BTW, your holier then thou attitude came across just a little strong and was pretty annoying. And if what Sony did bugs you that much, be the Truth, Justice and Honor Man and cancel you're subscription and move on, cause the only pain Sony feels is in dollars.

So your answer is "yes, I'll take this shafting and plenty more".Thanks for keeping it short.I wonder how it is that I can get you annoyed with a few words, but not the people who take your money and abuse your trust. Just how far do they have to go to get you riled?

I continue to agree with MrWolfie 100% (except the ratonga part! DIE KITTIES DIE DIE DIE!!)Note to posters.. BLUE TEXT IS BAD!!

[Tokam]

Kenazeer wrote:

Maroger wrote:I believe they have indicated that at least a protion did not believe the copies would take place and were just rolling new toons. Unfortunately there has been some friendly fire.

Friendly fire from an american, say it aint so!

[Cadori Seraphim]

Tokamak wrote:

If U Triad was indeed started on unrest then I apologise for the above, seems that maybe you guys should have just chosen this route from the start, no?

The above being correct there are only a few questions really to be resolved. Is all the plat from test and then transfered to legic characters gone, are you going to apologise to the rest of the test community for the slap in the face, are you going to comment on the legitimacy with which some of these items were obtained.

With this kind of attitude towards their more 'favoured' clients it is small wonder that plat selling is so prevelant.

I personally think, and this is obviously my opinion, that SOE has a hand in the plat selling. Yes, I will get the flames and fire from this comment but oh well. After what I have seen in the past few days and the comments they have made, it's only made this belief stronger. It really doesn't matter that they have a spam filter in game for such sellers.. I think doing that was a cover up so we would believe they cared about it lol.They are a business after all, and I am sure these plat sellers make a ton.. as no matter how many times people are told *if you dont buy it they wont  have a market for it*, people still go do it and dont see how bad its effecting the game and economy.As much money as they make, I know there are more measures that can be taken against this but they dont do it... they are more concerned with adding new combat music to the game then fixing the important issues..