The Guild Hall Feedback Thread

[Dethdlr]

Rothgar wrote:

Mynervia@Guk wrote:

Any chance that the 'admin' tab for the Harvesting Depot could be Dethdlr's "can withdraw", and the "can use" permission be for the "can use but not withdraw" option?  It wouldn't be as flexible as Dethdlr's proposal (since the "can withdraw" option would be tied inexorably to Trustee access), but it would still be a way to differentiate between normal 'use' and 'withdrawl'.Might be utterly impractical (for time-to-implement issue, for admin tab not interacting with data that way, or whatnot), but it felt worth suggesting.

There is no "admin tab".  Anything that is an "admin" feature requires trustee access.  There is no admin feature for the supply depot unless you're suggesting that only Trustees of the guild hall are allowed to withdraw.  So basically the "can use" access level determines who can consume items from crafting and who can deposit.  Then it would be basically "hard-coded" to only allow trustees to withdraw.  So if you deposited something by accident you'd have to get someone with trustee access to take it out for you.

Yes!    That sounds fantastic to me.  Trustees can withdraw, "can use" can craft and deposit.  To me that would be much better than the "can't use it at all" vs. "can head off with a truckload of raws" settings. 

I'd much rather have to deal with the problem of trustees getting something out that was put in by accident than the problem of cobwebs where our raws used to be and a message in the guild log that says "SneakyRawThief has left the guild".

Thanks so much Rothgar for having this dialog with us btw!

[denmom]

Bratface wrote:

Pheep@Unrest wrote:

Anordil@Lucan DLere wrote:

Pheep@Unrest wrote:

Rothgar,Thank you so much for all the replies and answering of questions, it's very greatly appreciated! /bowsA question that I had that I'm not sure had an answer, so many pages to this thread...Player "attuned" items such as altars, L&L trophys, and others, will they not be placeable in the guild halls?Is it possible to know what can and cannot be placed in the halls?Thank you in advance!

Good question! Since we want to make a chapel.

Thank you! I asked it earlier on but it was squashed in the weight of all the pages. I know thet T3 hall has a chapel, I want to make the atrium of the T2 hall into a chapel of sorts, where we all put our deity altars.

Actually no, the T3 one does not have a chapel, Domino decorated one of the rooms to be a chapel and we saw it in the video, but there isn't a designated chapel in the guild hall.

Ah, alrighty.  Thanks for the correction.

[Malc]

Megera wrote:

You know, the darkness lamp would be feasable i think, they have the darkness effects on teh Void creatures.  So it *is* an ingame effect.  the question is if they could snap it onto a house item!  Clever idea, Malcor. 

Yeah it has always been the sticking point of making a room look really evil.  I haven't gotten a answer back on my post though   I hope it doesn't become buried and passed over.

[Mynervia]

Rothgar wrote:

Mynervia@Guk wrote:

Any chance that the 'admin' tab for the Harvesting Depot could be Dethdlr's "can withdraw", and the "can use" permission be for the "can use but not withdraw" option? It wouldn't be as flexible as Dethdlr's proposal (since the "can withdraw" option would be tied inexorably to Trustee access), but it would still be a way to differentiate between normal 'use' and 'withdrawl'.Might be utterly impractical (for time-to-implement issue, for admin tab not interacting with data that way, or whatnot), but it felt worth suggesting.

There is no "admin tab". Anything that is an "admin" feature requires trustee access. There is no admin feature for the supply depot unless you're suggesting that only Trustees of the guild hall are allowed to withdraw. So basically the "can use" access level determines who can consume items from crafting and who can deposit. Then it would be basically "hard-coded" to only allow trustees to withdraw. So if you deposited something by accident you'd have to get someone with trustee access to take it out for you.

That pretty much *is* what I was suggesting.  That's the way one of our Guild Banks works now (everyone has deposit access, officers and up have withdrawl access) as a pool for valuable resources (items/rares/raid-stuff/etc).  This was done to prevent anyone from 'ripping off' the guild, for whatever reason, as that bank holds a /lot/ of plat if it were all to be liquidated.With Trustee-Admin as the only ones who could do a 'withdrawl', an accidental deposit would require getting a Trustee to withdraw it for you, much like you need an Officer to give you back an accidental deposit into the aformentioned guild bank.  Unlike that Guild Bank though, a wide range of people could still straightforwardly 'use' the resources there (via crafting in the hall) without the risk of someone abusively withdrawing mass amounts of contents.

[Pusska]

The supply depot DEFINITELY needs to take from the backpacks/boxes that are on your person first!However ... I do really like the idea of the supply depot and it's auto consume, and if this is how it works then our guild wouldn't really need one! :-/ Currently our guild has several 'hardcore crafters'. It is not unusual for us to spend hours (and sometimes days) just crafting for broker sales. Most of us have our bank slots taken up with redwood boxes labelled 'T1' 'T2' 'T3' etc that are full of that tiers mats, and which we equip when working with that tier. Drawing from our own personal backpack/boxes is exactly what we do now, if this is how the supply depot works it will lose all value. However if it draws are originally planned from the depot first not only would it be completely unfair drawing on these guild mats for our crafting, I think we would pretty soon empty it Might I suggest a simple tab like the guild bank? Personal Depot/Guild Depot. It seems like a simple solution to me, and one that most if not all would be happy with.

[Megera]

the Harvest Depot might not be of use to a lot of guilds who don't have communal harvest depots.  We do and i am really looking forward to this feature - if we get a guild hall at all, this is the first thing we're buying, hands down.  My entire interest in guildhalls is the sharing of resources with my guildmates.  Raw materials are covered.  now i'm trying to figure out about the other things.  I suppose L&L bits can stay on the current Necrobanker if a guilddepository for them isn't available.  there are just too many to shove in the guild bank. 

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Player Highlighted, Functional Facets in Guild Halls - Overview Revisited, 2.0

· Allow claimable pets and no-trade to be placed in guild halls with two tiers of confirmation, so long as proper access is had  A. Are you sure you want to place this item? Retrieving it requires proper access.    I. Yes/No   B. Please type the item's general name, not pet name, to confirm your decision.    II. _________· Allow open house for the in-guild housing portal· Allow a 10% personal status tax system that guildies can elect to be a part of or not (with proceeds being fed to escrow)· Rennovate guild raid writs and include a new amenity with both a doorway/portal and the associated writ giver· Rennovate lower tier content for raid mobs with decent status attribution· Incorporate a new "Permissions" tab under a new guild menu "Guild Hall" tab    I. Every amenity and its usage options would be subject to ALL manners of access, with the typical trustee, friend, and visitor values also being accompanied by ALL of the guild ranks      - Not everyone wants entrants to be able to move items just because they can use amenities (which would be the case if the current "Friend" access values were retained -- a quick fix until a thorough permission system could be included could make only "Trustee" able to move items)      - Guildies, of course, would be the only ones to have permission sets from guild ranks    II. Keep the current "Access" property tab for reviewing specific access entries      - Accomodate the ability to add groups of people by simply entering the guild name    III. Use columns with each amenity at the top and rows for each access class on the left, like current guild permissions      - To save time, think of copying code from the guild hall tab      - Modifying permissions while adventuring on the fly will help for when a particular guildy deserves one-time grace usage  A. Options for each class of entrant permissions may be as follows:    I. Usability for EACH amenity (Druid Portal Hireling -> Visitor: Yes/No, Guild Officer: Yes/No, etc)    II. Ability to place new items    III. Ability to move items    IV. Ability to retrieve items    V. Ability to move amenities    VI. Ability to modify amenities (NPC names, race, attire, etc)    VII. Ability to enter the guild hall    VIII. Ability to neutralize guild defenses (for scheduled Guild Hall PvP skirmishing/dueling) Things to consider include...:  A. The three tiers of Field Surveyors (General - raid watcher, Adept - group watcher, Elite - solo watcher) as a PvP-specific amenity    I. Reuse is 30 minutes    II. Default permission goes to officers    III. Gathering of intelligence takes 1 minute for the General Field surveyor, 2 for the Adept, and 3 for the Elite  B. Partitioning Doors amenity    I. Include up to 20 doors/gateways that can all have access class permissions set for them    II. Allow each particular partition door/gateway to be renamed      - Focusing your cursor over the partition would display its name, to convey to the attendee what is being missed  C. Ethnically oriented, aesthetic amenities (like the Maj'Dullian Orrey)  D. Adventurer writ amenity    I. Through dialogue, players choose between Neriak, Gorowyn, and Freeport writs as an evil aligned player and Kelethin and Qeynos writs as a character stemming from the good factions.    II. Appropriate options also allow for distinction per NPC guild types, where applicable (Fighter/Priest/Scout/Mage in Qeynos/Freeport, unsure of the other cities)  E. Collector amenity  F. Textures    I. If all textures are currently oriented in some "Neriak" styling, please provide options for variance a la right click house options  G. Financial plans    I. Make it mortgaged, with payments divvying into sums of either 1 mo, 3 mo, 6 mo, 9 mo, 12 mo, 15 mo, 18 mo, 21 mo, or 24 mo      - Complete buys require paying for two years worth of upkeep    II. Allow full-on, upfront purchase that factors in 2 years of upkeep at a minimum      - Include this feature for amenities and guild halls    III. Give players the ability to rent to others      - No renting until guild hall properties are fully owned      - Upkeep and down payments can be from 10%-50% the original      - Length of the leasing agreement would be decided by the tenant, agreed to by the denizen      - Overdue rent acts just as it does when paying to nobody, only 1 week's payment is required to enter      - Grants a VERY unique source of income  H. Upkeep Transfer      - Ensure escrow balances move to a new guild hall if an upgrade is conducted  I. Harvesting Supply Depot    I. Require confirmation "Are you sure you want to use X to craft X?" when using rare raws for mastercrafted recipes from the amenity    II. Variant permissions from the norm      - Item Withdrawal Limit (copy code from the bank?)      - Default is unlimited for friend and white icon guild ranks      - Capacity to use rare raws  J. Status gain    I. Work to ensure all named also, eventually give status points    II. Those who claim this is "too easy" a route are blind to the merits of farming, that which demands redundancy in the killing of innumerable placeholders and the quarter hours required just to kill yet another intermediary mob  K. Public praise and appeal to the masses    I. Lower the initial status cost of amenities by 50%    II. Reasonable, mid-range alteration still maintains a hefty cost, but shows the concern for compromise and content usability    III. Allows for the impressionable to be less daunted by the idea of paying escrow by the bulk, in advance    IV. Potentially not needed depending upon what is planned for in the future    V. Avoids mistakes made with guild status decay, guild patrons, and the actual, INITIAL rates of mounts like the carpet and upperscale homes  L. Automatically pay from escrow for upkeep    I. Default is no    II. Stop payment if no guild member has been online for # weeks/months (number of weeks or months is decided upon by the player)· Include the guild dues system to monitor and set either objectives or requirements for guild status contribution  A. Ensure a tab for another tier of modified permissions is also added, to penalize or reward providers of upkeep    I. Tab 1 -> "Dues" (subset in "Guild Hall" )      - Aim: XX,XXX Status every "Week/Month" (drop-down with tier-specific categorization included if the option is checked, default disables tier-specific definition)      - Submitted: XX,XXX Status (shows personal donation)      - Remaining: XX,XXX Status (shows amount left to fulfill dues objective)      - Benefactors (with drop-down to see those who have fulfilled the specified benchmark and how much they've granted, automatically divided into the relative tiers if an option for tier-specific objectives is enabled)      - Bystanders (with drop-down to see how much each guildy has added to the escrow, automatically divided into the relative tiers if an option for tier-specific objectives is enabled)      - Option to elect for tier-specific dues      - Option to disable the "Dues" feature      - Option to elect for the 10% escrow tax on personal status      - Option to enable exclusive "Benefactor" permissions (guild rank specific values included) -- "Benefactor" status is given to those who meet their dues      - Option to enable specialized "Bystander" treatment (guild rank specific values included) -- "Bystander" status is given to those who don't meet their dues      - Default disables dues      - Defualt disables exclusive "Benefactor"/"Bystander" permissions -- 1 other could be enabled separately, to either reward "Benefactors" or punish only "Bystanders"    II. Tab 2 -> "Benefactors" (subset in "Dues" )      - Duplication of the typical amenities permission tab for exclusive treatment of donators    III. Tab 3 -> "Bystanders" (subset in "Dues" )      - Replication of the typical amenities permission tab to give a specialized response for those unable to "adequately" aidAnywho, good enough that nearly all of this thread's content is in a magically delicious, bulleted format! Remembering the need for widescale accomodation is a must, as highlighting the significance of customization is a plus that always appeals to administration and even the individual. I would suggest allowing tier-specific objectives for escrow dues, but that might be off-putting on terms of "all those drop-down menus" (you know, the little plus signs that expand into full lists, turning into minus signs to contract). In my opinion, it would be more than acceptable as another welcome aspect of modulation. Relative to that, all that would be required is making the "Aim", "Benefactors", and "Bystanders" have drop downs that automatically separate by tier.This is what needs to be done to include Guild Hall PvP innovation, as well as prudent guild hall implementation on an overall level:· "Guild Hall" tab (subset tabs include "Amenities", "Dues" )  A. Open PvP access    I. Default is no      - Once a foe enters an opposing guild hall, they cannot leave for 2 minutes. Knowledge of whether the guild has neutralized their guards or not will not be available until entering and encountering them  B. Skirmishing    I. Accept requests      - Default is no      - Submitting a request is done by CTRL + clicking guildmates in your roster (to highlight multiples), then clicking a new "Skirmish!" button to the left of the "Promote" button      - Once done, a form with multiple options will appear    II. Skirmishing Form (PvP and not PvE settings are, of course, used)      - Hour for skirmish (applicant chooses their time zone [+/- # GMT, TIME_ZONE_LABEL_HERE])      - Guard aggression level      - Form factor (group, x 2, x 3, x 4)      - Creature Conjuror inclusion (The list of mobs available would depend upon whether the guild owning the hall acquired the trophy drop from whichever mob. All x4 mobs should have a guaranteed chance to drop a trophy, with no further drops occurring if your guild has already attained a particular raid mob's trophy as a prize. Once used, trophies should disappear from the inventory for placement in the guild hall, not counting against the total item count. All mobs killed by the guild should be available for summoning, separated by tiers, with subsets for Nameds and encounter value [triple arrow down, double arrow down, single arrow down, flat, single arrow up, double arrow up, triple arrow up].)  C. Opposing factions treated as "Visitor"    I. Default is no  D. Guard/Sentry Aggression    I. "Full" for aggression to be given to both Exileds and the opposing faction    II. "Partial" for aggression to be given to only the opposing faction    III. "Neutralized" for PvP skirmishing      - Changing guard aggression levels can't be done once skirmishing guidelines has been decided upon      - Changing guard aggression levels requires a 1 minute delay after being modified (changes are instant)      - Changing uguard aggression levels cannot be done while a player of the opposing faction is in your guild hall  E. Majority approval    I. Guild leaders logging in will see a yellow exclamation point near the "Guild Hall" tab, signifying changes another guild leader wants that require approval      - If there are multiple guild leaders, 75% approval, relative to unique accounts, is required before an option can be modified (this precludes the possibility of corruption that would require waiting for a petition's resolution, so long as the predominant portions of leadership aren't compromised)Though I realize there are time constraints on this guild hall project for you developers, I definitely think levvying your superiors to add to the team, if not just looking to gradually incorporate everything here, would make for the fullness a guild hall featureset deserves. If there are any points in this review that are just not managable, please let us know through a reply, as to ensure our time isn't spent in vain imagination. WE ARE MAKE ENTREATING WITH LOVINGKINDNESS!!

[Shikome]

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

...   II. Keep the current "Access" property tab for reviewing specific access entries      - Accomodate the ability to add groups of people by simply entering the guild name...

Thanks because i was thinking my question was stupid and missunderstood as i saw Dev replying to the rest and forgot my 2 timed posting question concerning House/Guild accesshttp://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427247

[Qandor]

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

Player Highlighted, Functional Facets in Guild Halls - Overview Revisited, 2.0

· Allow claimable pets and no-trade to be placed in guild halls with two tiers of confirmation, so long as proper access is had  A. Are you sure you want to place this item? Retrieving it requires proper access.    I. Yes/No   B. Please type the item's general name, not pet name, to confirm your decision.    II. _________

Not necessary. Single confirmation is fine if there must be any at all. This is not like deleting a character. It's a pet.

  G. Financial plans        - Complete buys require paying for two years worth of upkeep

Absolutely not. Anyone wanting to pre-pay two years of upkeep is free to do so now. All they have to do is put it in escrow. Mandatory? No [Removed for Content] way. 

     III. Give players the ability to rent to others      - No renting until guild hall properties are fully owned      - Upkeep and down payments can be from 10%-50% the original      - Length of the leasing agreement would be decided by the tenant, agreed to by the denizen      - Overdue rent acts just as it does when paying to nobody, only 1 week's payment is required to enter      - Grants a VERY unique source of income

You want to rent your guild hall to someone else? Like who? And you expect them to sanction it? rofl

 

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

Qandor wrote:

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

Player Highlighted, Functional Facets in Guild Halls - Overview Revisited, 2.0

· Allow claimable pets and no-trade to be placed in guild halls with two tiers of confirmation, so long as proper access is had A. Are you sure you want to place this item? Retrieving it requires proper access. I. Yes/No B. Please type the item's general name, not pet name, to confirm your decision. II. _________

Not necessary. Single confirmation is fine if there must be any at all. This is not like deleting a character. It's a pet.

>>> Neither was it necessary to disclude the capacity to place them, hence advocated precaution.

G. Financial plans - Complete buys require paying for two years worth of upkeep

Absolutely not. Anyone wanting to pre-pay two years of upkeep is free to do so now. All they have to do is put it in escrow. Mandatory? No [Removed for Content] way.

>>> Where did you get the idea mandatory was even relevant here? What has been mandatory in your eyes is conformation to a linear manner of logic, at least circumstantially. If you wouldn't want to completely own your guild hall as a property, then you would opt for the typical weekly upkeep or one of the other payment schedules. Point is to allow openness and variety in content, as such promotes longevity and unique usability.

Upfront Purchase:Tier 3 Guild Hall, 29 Amenities (No Mender, Bartender, Stable Hand, Stylist, Cloak Designer, PvP Writ Agent, Tradeskill Writ Agent, Gatherer Hireling, Hunter Hireling, Slayer Poster, Training Dummy Supply Chest, or Gigglegibber Goblin Gamblin' Game)1996p 10 g 140,000,000 sWeekly Upkeep:17p 94 g 608,750 s112 weeks (2 yrs) of Upkeep:2009p 28g 68,180,000 sCost to buy:4005p 38g 208,180,000 sCommodities Exporter Hireling, Courtyard Landmark: Statue, Courtyard Statue: Sentry, East, Courtyard Statue: Sentry, North, Courtyard Statue: Sentry, South, Courtyard Statue: Sentry, West, Creature Conjuror, Druid Portal Hireling, Fuel Merchant Hireling, Guild Hall Banker, Guild Hall World Market Broker, Guild Market Broker, Guild Strategist, Guild Translocation Beacon, Hall Guard (20), Harvesting Supply Depot, Kunark Adventure Writ Agent, Localized Guild Hall Teleportation, Magic Carpet to Sinking Sands,Maj'Dulian Planetary Orrey, Mariner's Bell: Faydwer, Mariner's Bell: Kunark, Mariner's Bell: Shattered Lands, Portal to Member Housing, Status Executor Hireling, Teleportation Spire to the Overrealm, Tradeskill Rush Order Agent, Uniform Mannequin (5)>>> Are you really telling me you have such an issue with diversity and divergence from the current development that, just because the developers haven't yet supported such suggestions, they have no functional applications? Massive raid guilds have nothing to blow their cash on cause they make so much. Guild halls as they are are chump change for some and there will be a handful of guilds on every server who get the T3 guild hall with capped amenities. Allowing these "units" (as some derogatorily speak of them) to branch out their net worth could only aid those in need.

III. Give players the ability to rent to others - No renting until guild hall properties are fully owned - Upkeep and down payments can be from 10%-50% the original - Length of the leasing agreement would be decided by the tenant, agreed to by the denizen - Overdue rent acts just as it does when paying to nobody, only 1 week's payment is required to enter - Grants a VERY unique source of income

You want to rent your guild hall to someone else? Like who? And you expect them to sanction it? rofl

>>> So you are unable to envision the demand of guild halls at 10% the rate from a quality renter?

[Bratface]

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

Qandor wrote:

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

Player Highlighted, Functional Facets in Guild Halls - Overview Revisited, 2.0

· Allow claimable pets and no-trade to be placed in guild halls with two tiers of confirmation, so long as proper access is had A. Are you sure you want to place this item? Retrieving it requires proper access. I. Yes/No B. Please type the item's general name, not pet name, to confirm your decision. II. _________

Not necessary. Single confirmation is fine if there must be any at all. This is not like deleting a character. It's a pet.

>>> Neither was it necessary to disclude the capacity to place them, hence advocated precaution.

G. Financial plans - Complete buys require paying for two years worth of upkeep

Absolutely not. Anyone wanting to pre-pay two years of upkeep is free to do so now. All they have to do is put it in escrow. Mandatory? No [Removed for Content] way.

>>> Where did you get the idea mandatory was even relevant here? What has been mandatory in your eyes is conformation to a linear manner of logic, at least circumstantially (You make me laugh with your prose style, malaproprisms or not they are funny lol). If you wouldn't want to completely own your guild hall as a property, then you would opt for the typical weekly upkeep or one of the other payment schedules. Point is to allow openness and variety in content, as such promotes longevity and unique usability.

Let me help you here since you don't seem to understand, require is the same thing as mandatory, so yeah you want it to be mandatory.

Upfront Purchase:Tier 3 Guild Hall, 29 Amenities (No Mender, Bartender, Stable Hand, Stylist, Cloak Designer, PvP Writ Agent, Tradeskill Writ Agent, Gatherer Hireling, Hunter Hireling, Slayer Poster, Training Dummy Supply Chest, or Gigglegibber Goblin Gamblin' Game)1996p 10 g 140,000,000 sWeekly Upkeep:17p 94 g 608,750 s112 weeks (2 yrs) of Upkeep:2009p 28g 68,180,000 sCost to buy:4005p 38g 208,180,000 sCommodities Exporter Hireling, Courtyard Landmark: Statue, Courtyard Statue: Sentry, East, Courtyard Statue: Sentry, North, Courtyard Statue: Sentry, South, Courtyard Statue: Sentry, West, Creature Conjuror, Druid Portal Hireling, Fuel Merchant Hireling, Guild Hall Banker, Guild Hall World Market Broker, Guild Market Broker, Guild Strategist, Guild Translocation Beacon, Hall Guard (20), Harvesting Supply Depot, Kunark Adventure Writ Agent, Localized Guild Hall Teleportation, Magic Carpet to Sinking Sands,Maj'Dulian Planetary Orrey, Mariner's Bell: Faydwer, Mariner's Bell: Kunark, Mariner's Bell: Shattered Lands, Portal to Member Housing, Status Executor Hireling, Teleportation Spire to the Overrealm, Tradeskill Rush Order Agent, Uniform Mannequin (5)>>> Are you really telling me you have such an issue with diversity and divergence from the current development that, just because the developers haven't yet supported such suggestions, they have no functional applications? Massive raid guilds have nothing to blow their cash on cause they make so much. Guild halls as they are are chump change for some and there will be a handful of guilds on every server who get the T3 guild hall with capped amenities. Allowing these "units" (as some derogatorily speak of them) to branch out their net worth could only aid those in need.

III. Give players the ability to rent to others - No renting until guild hall properties are fully owned - Upkeep and down payments can be from 10%-50% the original - Length of the leasing agreement would be decided by the tenant, agreed to by the denizen - Overdue rent acts just as it does when paying to nobody, only 1 week's payment is required to enter - Grants a VERY unique source of income

You want to rent your guild hall to someone else? Like who? And you expect them to sanction it? rofl

>>> So you are unable to envision the demand of guild halls at 10% the rate from a quality renter?

What?

What I don't want is someone else granting someone access to MY house, if an access level is created for "guild" then anyone who gets invited to a guild will have access to MY house. The way it is now is fine, if you want to allow people to be able to move or take stuff in your house then you must put their names in. You are the one in control of who has access, no one else.

No one is prevented from entering your house if you have it set to allow visitors, and having a setting that gives access to unknown people is dangerous and would create all sorts of CS issues because someone would be invited to a guild and rob everyones house and then you would want CS to replace your stuff, or even pretend to be robbed in order to get your stuff duplicated.

Just keep adding names manually, too much risk of abuse by having a guild access ability.

[troodon]

Bratface wrote:

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

Qandor wrote:

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

G. Financial plans- Complete buys require paying for two years worth of upkeep

Absolutely not. Anyone wanting to pre-pay two years of upkeep is free to do so now. All they have to do is put it in escrow. Mandatory? No [Removed for Content] way.

>>> Where did you get the idea mandatory was even relevant here? What has been mandatory in your eyes is conformation to a linear manner of logic, at least circumstantially (You make me laugh with your prose style, malaproprisms or not they are funny lol). If you wouldn't want to completely own your guild hall as a property, then you would opt for the typical weekly upkeep or one of the other payment schedules. Point is to allow openness and variety in content, as such promotes longevity and unique usability.

Let me help you here since you don't seem to understand, require is the same thing as mandatory, so yeah you want it to be mandatory.

He's saying if a guild chooses to do a complete buy, rather than a normal buy, it would require an extra investment of 2 years upkeep.  He isn't saying that purchasing a guild hall should require a complete buy.

[Mikkahl]

Mynervia@Guk wrote:

Rothgar wrote:

Mynervia@Guk wrote:

Any chance that the 'admin' tab for the Harvesting Depot could be Dethdlr's "can withdraw", and the "can use" permission be for the "can use but not withdraw" option? It wouldn't be as flexible as Dethdlr's proposal (since the "can withdraw" option would be tied inexorably to Trustee access), but it would still be a way to differentiate between normal 'use' and 'withdrawl'.Might be utterly impractical (for time-to-implement issue, for admin tab not interacting with data that way, or whatnot), but it felt worth suggesting.

There is no "admin tab". Anything that is an "admin" feature requires trustee access. There is no admin feature for the supply depot unless you're suggesting that only Trustees of the guild hall are allowed to withdraw. So basically the "can use" access level determines who can consume items from crafting and who can deposit. Then it would be basically "hard-coded" to only allow trustees to withdraw. So if you deposited something by accident you'd have to get someone with trustee access to take it out for you.

That pretty much *is* what I was suggesting.  That's the way one of our Guild Banks works now (everyone has deposit access, officers and up have withdrawl access) as a pool for valuable resources (items/rares/raid-stuff/etc).  This was done to prevent anyone from 'ripping off' the guild, for whatever reason, as that bank holds a /lot/ of plat if it were all to be liquidated.With Trustee-Admin as the only ones who could do a 'withdrawl', an accidental deposit would require getting a Trustee to withdraw it for you, much like you need an Officer to give you back an accidental deposit into the aformentioned guild bank.  Unlike that Guild Bank though, a wide range of people could still straightforwardly 'use' the resources there (via crafting in the hall) without the risk of someone abusively withdrawing mass amounts of contents.

No, my guild has a lot of members (probably with Friend access) who are hard-core crafters and want to share and manage the raws, and not so many officers (Trustees).  So, we would like to have Friends be able to withdraw and have full access to the supply depot.  Only Visitors (including new low-rank guild members) would not be able to withdraw or craft drawing from the supply depot.

[Whilhelmina]

Mikkahl wrote:

No, my guild has a lot of members (probably with Friend access) who are hard-core crafters and want to share and manage the raws, and not so many officers (Trustees).  So, we would like to have Friends be able to withdraw and have full access to the supply depot.  Only Visitors (including new low-rank guild members) would not be able to withdraw or craft drawing from the supply depot.

Well, a solution is to create a crafting rank within the guild ranks. It's what we did. We have several progression ranks and then 3 ranks of "full members" : males, crafters and females (we are a matriarcal guild) and the the officers. Crafting rank has a special access to the guild bank with rares and I think, special access within the guild halls. We will see. After all, those that are filling the bank with raws are also officers so I'm not sure we will need to set a special access for them.

As I said, it is a solution but it depends on how is working your guild.

I'm in favor on the take-first-from-inventory solution for this depot by the way.

EDIT : Ah, I need to add back something I said many pages ago. Rothgar said we couldn't have an option "send to guild hall" on items, so I guess it's a no. But, well, asking is not a problem so... Could we have an option "send to guild hall" for crafting stations owned by people who have stopped playing the game ? We have a "guild hosue" now, with crafting stations, but they are stuck there since the crafting stations were bought by someone who has quit. An option to send the station without reactivating the account (if the char still exists), would be nice.

[Bratface]

troodon wrote:

Bratface wrote:

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

Qandor wrote:

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

G. Financial plans- Complete buys require paying for two years worth of upkeep

Absolutely not. Anyone wanting to pre-pay two years of upkeep is free to do so now. All they have to do is put it in escrow. Mandatory? No [Removed for Content] way.

>>> Where did you get the idea mandatory was even relevant here? What has been mandatory in your eyes is conformation to a linear manner of logic, at least circumstantially (You make me laugh with your prose style, malaproprisms or not they are funny lol). If you wouldn't want to completely own your guild hall as a property, then you would opt for the typical weekly upkeep or one of the other payment schedules. Point is to allow openness and variety in content, as such promotes longevity and unique usability.

Let me help you here since you don't seem to understand, require is the same thing as mandatory, so yeah you want it to be mandatory.

He's saying if a guild chooses to do a complete buy, rather than a normal buy, it would require an extra investment of 2 years upkeep.  He isn't saying that purchasing a guild hall should require a complete buy.

He is saying that requiring isn't the same as mandatory.The context doesn't matter because it effects no change on the definition.Require and mandatory are the same, period. Requiring it for any reason is making it mandatory.

[Bozidar]

I think the complete buy idea is something we need to let go.  You do that and you'll open the door to a single player owning a T3 guild hall as his peronal home.  From everything i've read it's never ever ever never ever supposed to be that.

[theriatis]

Hi,

the fact is, that its in this context not interesting if its required or mandatory.

The only thing what is of interest is that he tried to list this as an additional feature which COULD be used and IF used, would r/m you to bring in two years of upkeep. And that (the Idea itself) is a good one.

Regards, theriatis.

[Bratface]

Omadesala wrote:

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

...   II. Keep the current "Access" property tab for reviewing specific access entries      - Accomodate the ability to add groups of people by simply entering the guild name...

Thanks because i was thinking my question was stupid and missunderstood as i saw Dev replying to the rest and forgot my 2 timed posting question concerning House/Guild accesshttp://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427247

Hi!Can I tell you why I think this shouldn't happen?Adding names to the permission list for your house is individual and you must allow each and every one of the names. If they coded in a way to allow all members of a guild, for instance, it would take the control away from you and put in the hands of whomever invites people to the guild, therefor risking your house items to potential theft.Or it opens up a way for people to have an unknown toon added to guild and rob themselves, and then file a petition to be reimbursed for their items that were stolen by a "character" they didn't personally give access to, "it was the guild leaders fault".Or you get kicked from guild and members still have access and come rob you, then you file a petition to get your stuff back when you really don't have any right to claim it was stolen since you gave them all permission to take your stuff when you granted them all permission simply because they were in a guild you gave access to.Too many possibilities for abuse and hassle for the CS team, just do it the manual way, once you do it it is done so it isn't like you have to keep redoing it over and over.

[Barq Bandit]

Well, consider this.  If your otherwise private guild is buddy-buddy with another guild and you want to allow them to merely visit while continuing to shut everyone else out, a way to grant Visitor access to an entire guild other than your own would come in handy.  If your ally guild is 50 characters strong with a membership that keeps changing from day to day, it would indeed become tedious to constantly set permissions as folks came and went from the allied guild.As for the whole rent vs. purchase thing:  I'm adopting and wait n' see stance on it for now.  I've argued adamantly for outright purchase, or at the very least a heavy reduction in amenities costs, but I've said all I can think of to say about it for now.  We'll see how the full playerbase reacts when these go live, and then we'll either see more change right away or changes down the line will make having more than just a couple of these amenities possible.  I'd be disappointed with the approach that things just "should" be prohibitively expensive when they first come out, though.  We've seen how well that went for five room houses.  They were pretty much left untouched until the price was dropped drasticly.

[Mikkahl]

I presume like any house, you can set your guild hall's general access to Visitor, instead of None.  That way, other guilds and anyone else who wants to visit can look around.  They can even use your crafting tables, but not access the supply depot or any other amenities.

 I wonder if you can set any amenities to allow Visitor usage.  You could mark the portals that way, then anyone could come in and teleport around the world!

[Shikome]

Bratface wrote:

Omadesala wrote:

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

...   II. Keep the current "Access" property tab for reviewing specific access entries      - Accomodate the ability to add groups of people by simply entering the guild name...

Thanks because i was thinking my question was stupid and missunderstood as i saw Dev replying to the rest and forgot my 2 timed posting question concerning House/Guild accesshttp://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=427247

Hi!Can I tell you why I think this shouldn't happen?Adding names to the permission list for your house is individual and you must allow each and every one of the names. If they coded in a way to allow all members of a guild, for instance, it would take the control away from you and put in the hands of whomever invites people to the guild, therefor risking your house items to potential theft.>> They coded it a long time ago. Now it's totally wrong, you haven't put visitor access to your house before ?Or it opens up a way for people to have an unknown toon added to guild and rob themselves, and then file a petition to be reimbursed for their items that were stolen by a "character" they didn't personally give access to, "it was the guild leaders fault".

>> Again wrong when you put someone visitorOr you get kicked from guild and members still have access and come rob you, then you file a petition to get your stuff back when you really don't have any right to claim it was stolen since you gave them all permission to take your stuff when you granted them all permission simply because they were in a guild you gave access to.Too many possibilities for abuse and hassle for the CS team, just do it the manual way, once you do it it is done so it isn't like you have to keep redoing it over and over.

Well you seems to be able to make another scenary of Apocalyse now. By the way, the question is not concerning access level but how you make it. My question concern maybe to put the name of guild also on toons's name of the access UI or Maybe be able to grant our guild.

[Chickenlady]

Kurindor_Mythecnea wrote:

    E. Majority approval    I. Guild leaders logging in will see a yellow exclamation point near the "Guild Hall" tab, signifying changes another guild leader wants that require approval      - If there are multiple guild leaders, 75% approval, relative to unique accounts, is required before an option can be modified (this precludes the possibility of corruption that would require waiting for a petition's resolution, so long as the predominant portions of leadership aren't compromised)

Not sure I would be totally happy about this - I am Co-leader of a guild, and the other Co-leader doesn't play very much at the moment (Work pressures).If I had to wait maybe several days or even a couple of weeks for him to log into the game and approve any changes I, or the Officers wanted made to the guild hall nothing would ever get done.If you can't trust someone to make appropriate changes to the guild hall without the "approval" of another leader, you shouldn't have them as a leader in the first place!

[mezagetu]

I've been turning this idea of buying guild halls over in my head and keep hitting a problem with the idea of using personally earned status to buy the guild hall.  Two reasons.

Sorry if this has been covered but how is the initial purchase made, will the guild screen have the pool for status before you buy the guild hall so that everyone can pool it together before the purchase?  If not will the person who goes to buy have to have the accumilated status on the character they are buying it with?

My other point is the use of "personal" status in this instance, I understand that a guild is made up of individuals who go out into the world, but my thought on personal status was, it was your reward from your faction for the work you did and not your guild, your guild gets the 10% to show that your actions have inturn meant the've been noticed.  This brings me to the question why isn't the status element paid out of the 10% which is the guild reputation within the world of Norath?  This to me makes a bit more sense and although wouldn't change the upkeep and purchase price if scaled accordingly, would leave people who have gone out and earned their status to keep their share, buy there mounts and nice things while the guild get the maximum input for the writs done by the members.

It just seems to me that if the current situation stays and a guild decides to give it everything to get a nice guild hall there will be no status left for players to enjoy the rest of the content in the game which is earned through personal status.

Feel free to ignore, I just like the idea of the guild's reputation being used and not mine

Another 2 copper.

[Loolee]

Heostadea@Runnyeye wrote:

I've been turning this idea of buying guild halls over in my head and keep hitting a problem with the idea of using personally earned status to buy the guild hall.  Two reasons.

Sorry if this has been covered but how is the initial purchase made, will the guild screen have the pool for status before you buy the guild hall so that everyone can pool it together before the purchase?  If not will the person who goes to buy have to have the accumilated status on the character they are buying it with?

No status is required for the purchase of the hall.  You only need status for upkeep.

My other point is the use of "personal" status in this instance, I understand that a guild is made up of individuals who go out into the world, but my thought on personal status was, it was your reward from your faction for the work you did and not your guild, your guild gets the 10% to show that your actions have inturn meant the've been noticed.  This brings me to the question why isn't the status element paid out of the 10% which is the guild reputation within the world of Norath?  This to me makes a bit more sense and although wouldn't change the upkeep and purchase price if scaled accordingly, would leave people who have gone out and earned their status to keep their share, buy there mounts and nice things while the guild get the maximum input for the writs done by the members.

It just seems to me that if the current situation stays and a guild decides to give it everything to get a nice guild hall there will be no status left for players to enjoy the rest of the content in the game which is earned through personal status.

Feel free to ignore, I just like the idea of the guild's reputation being used and not mine

Another 2 copper.

[Mikkahl]

The purchase of a guild hall requires no status, only plat, for the reasons you mentioned.  There is no escrow to pool status points until the guild hall is purchased.

Second point, just some comments:

• For a level 80 guild, there is no more 10% guild status being contributed to the guild, so that pool would dwindle rapidly.
• A lot of us have already bought their mounts, title, etc., and still have a lot of personal status left over.  So, this is finally a good use for that status.

[ashen1973]

Heostadea@Runnyeye wrote:

I've been turning this idea of buying guild halls over in my head and keep hitting a problem with the idea of using personally earned status to buy the guild hall.  Two reasons.

Sorry if this has been covered but how is the initial purchase made, will the guild screen have the pool for status before you buy the guild hall so that everyone can pool it together before the purchase?  If not will the person who goes to buy have to have the accumilated status on the character they are buying it with?

My other point is the use of "personal" status in this instance, I understand that a guild is made up of individuals who go out into the world, but my thought on personal status was, it was your reward from your faction for the work you did and not your guild, your guild gets the 10% to show that your actions have inturn meant the've been noticed.  This brings me to the question why isn't the status element paid out of the 10% which is the guild reputation within the world of Norath?  This to me makes a bit more sense and although wouldn't change the upkeep and purchase price if scaled accordingly, would leave people who have gone out and earned their status to keep their share, buy there mounts and nice things while the guild get the maximum input for the writs done by the members.

It just seems to me that if the current situation stays and a guild decides to give it everything to get a nice guild hall there will be no status left for players to enjoy the rest of the content in the game which is earned through personal status.

Feel free to ignore, I just like the idea of the guild's reputation being used and not mine

Another 2 copper.

There is no, initial, status cost to buy the hall itself.

The purchase of the hall is made by the Guild leader, using plat only.

once you have a hall, anyone within the guild can donate some of their personal status and/or plat into an 'escrow' account within the hall.

When amenities are purchased, the status and coin cost will be taken from this escrow, as will the weekly upkeep.

So everyone has the option of contributing or not, nothing is taken from your personal status stash.

When you gain status (be it from writs, HQ's, items, killing nameds etc...) you do not actually lose anyh of ther status to the guild.

For instance, if you earn 10000 personal status for a writ, you actually get 10000 personal status. The guild gains 1000 status on top of this.

My own personal view on status/coin contributions is yes, its right that it should be an individual and personal choice wether to contribute or not.

But everyone must ask themselves just how comfortable they would be using ameneties they havnt paid towards.

In my guild, I dont expect anyone to feel forced into contributing.

But I also know everyone will contribute something of their own accord.

I also know that to some contributing 1pp and 10k status will be just as generous as others contributing 200pp and 5000k status and all will be just as appreciated.

[Vonotar]

Another vote here for allowing another entire guild access to your guild house.A lot of T1 owning guilds would benefit from each others amenities via guild alliances etc.In the end this is  just an option, if a guild makes another guild trustee that's their lookout (although I can actually see instances of this happening with twinned guilds, e.g. Raid guild and Alt guild)However there is a lot of benefit from giving another guild 'visitor' access but still keeping every tom, richard and harry from being able to visit.

[Anordil]

Being able to grant an entire guild access would be really awesome.

One of the great things about DAoC housing as the ability to add accounts as friends so you didn't have to remember all the alts and you could set permissions for by guild.

[Prrasha]

Magnamundian wrote:

Another vote here for allowing another entire guild access to your guild house.A lot of T1 owning guilds would benefit from each others amenities via guild alliances etc.In the end this is  just an option, if a guild makes another guild trustee that's their lookout (although I can actually see instances of this happening with twinned guilds, e.g. Raid guild and Alt guild)However there is a lot of benefit from giving another guild 'visitor' access but still keeping every tom, richard and harry from being able to visit.

Assuming that "zoning into a guild hall" and "zoning into an adjacent city zone" take the same amount of time (and based on 5-room player houses, the hall will actually be a fair bit slower due to furnishings), there's very little benefit in trying to use another guild's amenities.  Assuming a T2 guild hall in SQ, with quick zoning to NQ or QH, the following amenities aren't available:Creature ConjurorDruid Portal HirelingGatherer Hireling **Guild Strategist **Guild Translocation Beacon **Harvesting Supply Depot **Hunter Hireling **Kunark Adventure Writ Agent *Mariner's Bell: FaydwerMariner's Bell: KunarkPortal to Member HousingTeleportation Spire to the OverrealmTraining Dummy Supply ChestThe **'s probably aren't usable outside the guild, and the *'ed one is only a time-saver if you're doing KJ or JW writs and have a teleport to there available; otherwise you're running right by the writ-givers at Dreg's Landing anyway.The benefit to almost all of the Amenities is having everything in one zone; they save a bit of time.  (Unfortunately, right now, they seem to save less time than the time spent to pay their upkeep.)This would be a big help for allied mixed-city guilds where each has a hall of a different alignment, though, so I'd be in favor of other-guild access.  Or at least other-account access, so I don't need to know the names of all 12 of Bill's alts.  (That would be a nice feature for the friends and ignore lists too...)

[Foolsfolly]

What if Sony implemented a feature where the owners of a castle could rent out access to other guilds for a fee that they set? For example Super Guild could purchase a castle and make a contract with Mini Guild, Small Guild, Tiny Guild, Little Guild, and Demi-Guild, where each of them pay 1pp per week for access to the castle. Super Guild would still retain ownership, and be the only ones entitled to purchase new amenities and set decorating rights, but the smaller guilds could utilize the various amenity benefits as they please. This would work out to a much more reasonable upkeep for everyone, and be completely optional if some guilds still choose to pay for everything themselves. Though by renting out to enough lesser guilds, the owners might even be able to turn a profit!