New Critical System - Page 3

Ucala · 10-13-2014, 08:30 AM

running around with 954 CC I have had quite a few myth crits Tongue

I would say "getting lucky" def can change parse order

Kalika · 10-14-2014, 04:25 PM

Like arieste I wonder why they introduce yet another variable in the equations ... Nobody except probably a dumb button pusher (i mean a mage) asked for that. I don't hate the idea of mythical crit, but it's just another useless feature.

I don't understand why they spend time adding a useless feature when so many other things should be adjusted.

Xray · 10-14-2014, 05:38 PM

Is there a formula for us to see at 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000 Crit Chance, what is the % on Legendary, Fabled, Mythical Crit Chance?

Jrel · 10-14-2014, 06:29 PM

Per the 1st post by Xelgad:

At 100% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Legendary critical hit.
At 500% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Fabled critical hit.
At 700% Crit, you'll have a very small chance to get a Mythical critical hit.

arturos · 10-14-2014, 07:12 PM

with 747 crit im popping legendary and fabled quite often and dots OMG the dots HELLO WALL O ORANGE!!! althought from what ACT tells me i have yet to get a myth crit. back on topic though i i would imagine that people are more interested in what is the % chance to legend crit when at 700% crit chance and fabled and myth so on and so forth.

Ucala · 10-14-2014, 07:19 PM

at 945 CC I am getting quite a few myths, mostly legendary/fabled everywhere I see

Buffrat · 10-14-2014, 11:08 PM

I have 1000 and am seeing *very slightly* more than at 800.

Arieste · 10-14-2014, 11:17 PM

seen a ward yet?

Arieste · 10-15-2014, 06:41 PM

Still looking for ANYONE to report seeing a Mythical Crit ward.

Would like to know:

1. how did you know it was mythical?
2. how much was it in comparison to your regular ward?

yerbo · 10-17-2014, 12:54 PM

Xelgad said: ↑

“Welcome to beta, testers!

As discussed at SOE Live 2014, creatures in Altar of Malice will not be using Crit Avoidance. Instead, Crit Chance will add additional critical types.

You will be able to see your "Regular" Critical hits that you currently can get remain unchanged, however you will be able to attain "Legendary," "Fabled" and "Mythical" critical hits.

What does this mean?

Well, you'll be a little more powerful when you log on, for one.

A Legendary Critical hit takes the damage you would have had with a normal one and increases it by 25%.
A Fabled Critical hit takes the damage you would have had with a normal one and increases it by 100%.
A Mythical Critical hit takes the damage you would have done with a normal one and increases it by 300%.

At 100% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Legendary critical hit. At 500% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Fabled critical hit. At 700% Crit, you'll have a very small chance to get a Mythical critical hit.

As with regular critical hits, as you gain Crit Chance, your chance for the new types will improve dramatically.

Please keep in mind that we intend for these new Critical Hits to be a rare, low chance to happen. They will work on anything that can critically apply - taunts, damage, heals and wards.

Thanks,
Xelgad”

What I'd like to know is, what is the point? To put more luck into the game?

Arieste · 10-17-2014, 02:40 PM

Multiple people are reporting that wards aren't critting (the new super crits).

Both in terms of not showing up in log and in terms of not getting the "300%-type" numbers in repeated testing.

konofo · 10-17-2014, 02:43 PM

From my perspective, the "point" is twofold:

Ditch zonewide CC debuffs as a gating mechanism, without abandoning crit chance as a meaningful stat, and
Offer us another more-or-less uncapped stat to juggle, alongside CB/Pot/WDB.

Overall, I think it's a great approach, despite concerns regarding variability. The random nature of the new critical system will make it somewhat more challenging to weigh this stat against others, whenever you have the opportunity to choose.

Conceptually, instead of trying to maximize the area of a square defined by CB/Pot, or CB/WDB, you'll be trying to maximize the volume of a cube, where the third dimension isn't necessarily constant, and doesn't trade 1:1 with the other two. Loading up on white CC adorns is still not likely to be the right approach, but at least now it's the kind of possibility that warrants a bit of examination.

kono

Anghammarad · 10-17-2014, 07:25 PM

Currently I got 700% CC on Anghammarad.

I often get Legendary Crits
I sometimes get Fabled Crits
I up until now never had a Mythical Crit

Receiving a fabled crit with an Inqui that is running full heal specced can show an amount of 47.xxx damage as fabled crit...

I curled up in a corner and started crying =P

Meshuggahx · 10-18-2014, 01:15 AM

Not sure if anyone said it here before, but please for the love of solsek ro, make the font on the special criticals smaller please! it's really huge and taking too much space on my screen.

Kari · 10-18-2014, 10:45 PM

I tested ward crits a little bit this afternoon and could not get any of the new crits.

Crit chance was 879.9. I stayed out of combat to minimize procs and just cast my single target ward on myself 400 times.

ward amount 127,763 = normal ward 261 occurrences
ward amount 129,045 = normal ward with tribal spirit proc 51 occurrences
ward amount 130,448 = normal ward with reification proc 75 occurrences
ward amount 131,771 = normal ward with tribal spirit and reicification proc 13 occurrences.

Total wards 400 = no legendary, fabled or mythical crits.

Arieste · 10-19-2014, 04:18 AM

ty for doing testing and reporting back. hopefully we'll get at least an acknowledgement from a dev sometime soon that this is being looked at.

Maergoth · 10-19-2014, 07:41 AM

Probably has something to do with the spread on the new crits and the lack of the "max hit plus one" mechanic. And since wards are less effected by crit bonus, you're not fluctuating as much as other crits are. And the fluctuation is what enables other people to benefit from those crits at all, since otherwise.. they'd often be less than regular crits.

For legendaries. I don't know about fabled/mythical, nor why you were unable to see any results at all.

Kalika · 10-20-2014, 09:28 PM

Just a note about mythical crit on heals or wards ...

Since those crits are rare and passive they do not matter for healing, they are not likely to happen when needed. They will just produce over-healing.

The only case in which it could actually help would be if the special crit chance was not so low, and if a warder would spam his ward before pull ti he get a special crit ;-)

For dps it's totally different, special crit are just going to increase the average damage, but they may have some bad impact.
As example a t1 dps can get "lucky" and get a serie of special crit ==> and so he get ranked 1st on the agro list suddenly

Ucala · 10-20-2014, 09:54 PM

myth crits aren't that great, they are nice but chances won't effect -too- much.

I still think it could change parses though on short fights and luck.

but it won't have that great of an impact

Maergoth · 10-20-2014, 11:40 PM

I'm pretty sure something is bugged, as is obvious by legendary crits hitting lower than regular crits sometimes. If that gets addressed, I have to imagine myth crits will go up a bit. Maybe it's not bugged and it's just a result of procs, but legendary crits are extraordinarily not legendary if that is the case.

I vote to rename them "Treasured" crits.

However, either way, the impact isn't going to be parse changing.. but it can certainly be a wildcard in whether you pass or fail a time-based DPS check.

Or in the other direction, mobs which need to be kept close in health percents could just completely go whacky under a rare but inevitable string of myth crits.

Ucala · 10-21-2014, 04:30 AM

I wouldn't really say that.
if you have all temps running, your normal crit will hit high.
if all temps are low and you legendary crit, it will hit higher than it should, but maybe not as high as a normal crit on full temps.
which makes perfect sense

Maergoth · 10-21-2014, 05:40 AM

Which is what I said. But if a slight fluctuation in proc maintenance results in legendary crits hitting less than regular crits, they're pretty wimpy.

I still believe it isn't working properly, but like I said, it doesn't matter much.

Silzin · 10-21-2014, 06:10 AM

based on a 4 min fight on Beta of Just my Auto Attack with 690 CC (out of Myth Crit Range i know) i did not use any buffs nor did i did i use any Combat Arts and i was not grouped with any one... just a few findings.

My Normal Crits Ranged from 34k up to 136k
My Legendary Crits Ranged from 51k up to 161k
My Fabled Crits Ranged from 80k up to 222k

these numbers are just from one of my weapons, not both and not any of the procs that may have went off.

So if a Legendary Crit is supposed to be minimum of Max +1 X 25% then i am not seeing it work properly.

Endymion · 10-21-2014, 07:43 AM

Bonus criticals aren't ( ( max + 1 ) * bonus crit multiplier ), they're just a multiplier on whatever the pre-bonus crit damage was.

Shonto · 10-21-2014, 07:46 AM

Temps and buffs aside, your own damage range (when I looked) for each weapon is 4,696 to 17,347, so your max hit, just using those numbers, is 369% of your minimum. RNG theoretically dictates you will get special crits as often on the low end of your hits as you get them on the high end, so you should expect to see pretty much the range you displayed. Though you came out much better on the low end (51/34 = 150%, 80/34 = 235%) than the high end (161/136 = 118%, 222/136 = 163%), but it was also a short test.

Silzin · 10-21-2014, 04:01 PM

Thank you both, i released my mistake after i went to bed and m mind keep working on it.

Torri · 10-24-2014, 03:07 PM

Not really the hoped for answer, but thanks for setting the record straight. Somewhat underwhelming to have a Fabled crit hit for less than a baseline crit but sometimes the rng isn't your friend. More and more it seems

Arieste · 10-24-2014, 04:57 PM

Given some of the things we've discovered by looking at Wards (which are a good baseline since they have no inherent variance), I think all the crits may be suffering incorrect log tags. See Ward Weirdness thread in priest section for more details/examples. That may not be the only problem though.

Endymion · 10-24-2014, 07:19 PM

This was addressed in said ward thread, but for people who only read this thread, the issue with wards was specific to wards and only an issue with the identification of crit types in the logs for wards; the actual values were correct.

Buffrat · 10-25-2014, 02:12 PM

Critting dots seems weird. It doesn't seem to give a **** about your initial hit but if the first tick mythicrits every tick will mythicrit. If the initial hit mythicrits but the first tick legendary crits every tick will be legendary. Idk. Maybe it's just specific to assassin dots.

10-13-2014, 08:30 AM	#61
Ucala Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	running around with 954 CC I have had quite a few myth crits I would say "getting lucky" def can change parse order

10-14-2014, 05:38 PM	#63
Xray Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Xelgad said: ↑ “At 100% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Legendary critical hit. At 500% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Fabled critical hit. At 700% Crit, you'll have a very small chance to get a Mythical critical hit. As with regular critical hits, as you gain Crit Chance, your chance for the new types will improve dramatically.” Is there a formula for us to see at 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000 Crit Chance, what is the % on Legendary, Fabled, Mythical Crit Chance?

10-14-2014, 06:29 PM	#64
Jrel Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 3	Xray said: ↑ “Is there a formula for us to see at 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000 Crit Chance, what is the % on Legendary, Fabled, Mythical Crit Chance?” Per the 1st post by Xelgad: At 100% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Legendary critical hit. At 500% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Fabled critical hit. At 700% Crit, you'll have a very small chance to get a Mythical critical hit.

10-14-2014, 11:08 PM	#67
Buffrat Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Ucala said: ↑ “at 945 CC I am getting quite a few myths, mostly legendary/fabled everywhere I see” I have 1000 and am seeing very slightly more than at 800.

10-14-2014, 11:17 PM	#68
Arieste Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Buffrat said: ↑ “I have 1000 and am seeing very slightly more than at 800.” seen a ward yet?

10-14-2014, 04:25 PM	#62
Kalika Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Like arieste I wonder why they introduce yet another variable in the equations ... Nobody except probably a dumb button pusher (i mean a mage) asked for that. I don't hate the idea of mythical crit, but it's just another useless feature. I don't understand why they spend time adding a useless feature when so many other things should be adjusted.

10-14-2014, 07:12 PM	#65
arturos Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	with 747 crit im popping legendary and fabled quite often and dots OMG the dots HELLO WALL O ORANGE!!! althought from what ACT tells me i have yet to get a myth crit. back on topic though i i would imagine that people are more interested in what is the % chance to legend crit when at 700% crit chance and fabled and myth so on and so forth.

10-14-2014, 07:19 PM	#66
Ucala Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	at 945 CC I am getting quite a few myths, mostly legendary/fabled everywhere I see

10-15-2014, 06:41 PM	#69
Arieste Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Still looking for ANYONE to report seeing a Mythical Crit ward. Would like to know: 1. how did you know it was mythical? 2. how much was it in comparison to your regular ward?

10-17-2014, 12:54 PM	#70
yerbo New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Xelgad said: ↑ “Welcome to beta, testers! As discussed at SOE Live 2014, creatures in Altar of Malice will not be using Crit Avoidance. Instead, Crit Chance will add additional critical types. You will be able to see your "Regular" Critical hits that you currently can get remain unchanged, however you will be able to attain "Legendary," "Fabled" and "Mythical" critical hits. What does this mean? Well, you'll be a little more powerful when you log on, for one. A Legendary Critical hit takes the damage you would have had with a normal one and increases it by 25%. A Fabled Critical hit takes the damage you would have had with a normal one and increases it by 100%. A Mythical Critical hit takes the damage you would have done with a normal one and increases it by 300%. At 100% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Legendary critical hit. At 500% Crit, you will have a 1% chance to get a Fabled critical hit. At 700% Crit, you'll have a very small chance to get a Mythical critical hit. As with regular critical hits, as you gain Crit Chance, your chance for the new types will improve dramatically. Please keep in mind that we intend for these new Critical Hits to be a rare, low chance to happen. They will work on anything that can critically apply - taunts, damage, heals and wards. Thanks, Xelgad” What I'd like to know is, what is the point? To put more luck into the game?

10-17-2014, 02:40 PM	#71
Arieste Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Xelgad said: ↑ “The values are the same for heals, damage, wards, power restoration and taunts. Enemies cannot critically hit players.” Multiple people are reporting that wards aren't critting (the new super crits). Both in terms of not showing up in log and in terms of not getting the "300%-type" numbers in repeated testing.

10-17-2014, 02:43 PM	#72
konofo Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	yerbo said: ↑ “What I'd like to know is, what is the point? To put more luck into the game?” From my perspective, the "point" is twofold: Ditch zonewide CC debuffs as a gating mechanism, without abandoning crit chance as a meaningful stat, and Offer us another more-or-less uncapped stat to juggle, alongside CB/Pot/WDB. Overall, I think it's a great approach, despite concerns regarding variability. The random nature of the new critical system will make it somewhat more challenging to weigh this stat against others, whenever you have the opportunity to choose. Conceptually, instead of trying to maximize the area of a square defined by CB/Pot, or CB/WDB, you'll be trying to maximize the volume of a cube, where the third dimension isn't necessarily constant, and doesn't trade 1:1 with the other two. Loading up on white CC adorns is still not likely to be the right approach, but at least now it's the kind of possibility that warrants a bit of examination. kono

10-17-2014, 07:25 PM	#73
Anghammarad Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Currently I got 700% CC on Anghammarad. I often get Legendary Crits I sometimes get Fabled Crits I up until now never had a Mythical Crit Receiving a fabled crit with an Inqui that is running full heal specced can show an amount of 47.xxx damage as fabled crit... I curled up in a corner and started crying =P

10-18-2014, 01:15 AM	#74
Meshuggahx Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Not sure if anyone said it here before, but please for the love of solsek ro, make the font on the special criticals smaller please! it's really huge and taking too much space on my screen.

10-18-2014, 10:45 PM	#75
Kari Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 3	Arieste said: ↑ “Multiple people are reporting that wards aren't critting (the new super crits).” Arieste said: ↑ “Both in terms of not showing up in log and in terms of not getting the "300%-type" numbers in repeated testing.” I tested ward crits a little bit this afternoon and could not get any of the new crits. Crit chance was 879.9. I stayed out of combat to minimize procs and just cast my single target ward on myself 400 times. ward amount 127,763 = normal ward 261 occurrences ward amount 129,045 = normal ward with tribal spirit proc 51 occurrences ward amount 130,448 = normal ward with reification proc 75 occurrences ward amount 131,771 = normal ward with tribal spirit and reicification proc 13 occurrences. Total wards 400 = no legendary, fabled or mythical crits.

10-19-2014, 04:18 AM	#76
Arieste Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Kari said: ↑ “I tested ward crits a little bit this afternoon and could not get any of the new crits. Crit chance was 879.9. I stayed out of combat to minimize procs and just cast my single target ward on myself 400 times. ward amount 127,763 = normal ward 261 occurrences ward amount 129,045 = normal ward with tribal spirit proc 51 occurrences ward amount 130,448 = normal ward with reification proc 75 occurrences ward amount 131,771 = normal ward with tribal spirit and reicification proc 13 occurrences. Total wards 400 = no legendary, fabled or mythical crits.” ty for doing testing and reporting back. hopefully we'll get at least an acknowledgement from a dev sometime soon that this is being looked at.

10-19-2014, 07:41 AM	#77
Maergoth Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Probably has something to do with the spread on the new crits and the lack of the "max hit plus one" mechanic. And since wards are less effected by crit bonus, you're not fluctuating as much as other crits are. And the fluctuation is what enables other people to benefit from those crits at all, since otherwise.. they'd often be less than regular crits. For legendaries. I don't know about fabled/mythical, nor why you were unable to see any results at all.

10-20-2014, 09:28 PM	#78
Kalika Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Just a note about mythical crit on heals or wards ... Since those crits are rare and passive they do not matter for healing, they are not likely to happen when needed. They will just produce over-healing. The only case in which it could actually help would be if the special crit chance was not so low, and if a warder would spam his ward before pull ti he get a special crit ;-) For dps it's totally different, special crit are just going to increase the average damage, but they may have some bad impact. As example a t1 dps can get "lucky" and get a serie of special crit ==> and so he get ranked 1st on the agro list suddenly

10-20-2014, 09:54 PM	#79
Ucala Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	myth crits aren't that great, they are nice but chances won't effect -too- much. I still think it could change parses though on short fights and luck. but it won't have that great of an impact

10-20-2014, 11:40 PM	#80
Maergoth Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I'm pretty sure something is bugged, as is obvious by legendary crits hitting lower than regular crits sometimes. If that gets addressed, I have to imagine myth crits will go up a bit. Maybe it's not bugged and it's just a result of procs, but legendary crits are extraordinarily not legendary if that is the case. I vote to rename them "Treasured" crits. However, either way, the impact isn't going to be parse changing.. but it can certainly be a wildcard in whether you pass or fail a time-based DPS check. Or in the other direction, mobs which need to be kept close in health percents could just completely go whacky under a rare but inevitable string of myth crits.

10-21-2014, 04:30 AM	#81
Ucala Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Maergoth said: ↑ “I'm pretty sure something is bugged, as is obvious by legendary crits hitting lower than regular crits sometimes. If that gets addressed, I have to imagine myth crits will go up a bit. Maybe it's not bugged and it's just a result of procs, but legendary crits are extraordinarily not legendary if that is the case. I vote to rename them "Treasured" crits. However, either way, the impact isn't going to be parse changing.. but it can certainly be a wildcard in whether you pass or fail a time-based DPS check. Or in the other direction, mobs which need to be kept close in health percents could just completely go whacky under a rare but inevitable string of myth crits.” I wouldn't really say that. if you have all temps running, your normal crit will hit high. if all temps are low and you legendary crit, it will hit higher than it should, but maybe not as high as a normal crit on full temps. which makes perfect sense

10-21-2014, 05:40 AM	#82
Maergoth Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Which is what I said. But if a slight fluctuation in proc maintenance results in legendary crits hitting less than regular crits, they're pretty wimpy. I still believe it isn't working properly, but like I said, it doesn't matter much.

10-21-2014, 06:10 AM	#83
Silzin Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	based on a 4 min fight on Beta of Just my Auto Attack with 690 CC (out of Myth Crit Range i know) i did not use any buffs nor did i did i use any Combat Arts and i was not grouped with any one... just a few findings. My Normal Crits Ranged from 34k up to 136k My Legendary Crits Ranged from 51k up to 161k My Fabled Crits Ranged from 80k up to 222k these numbers are just from one of my weapons, not both and not any of the procs that may have went off. So if a Legendary Crit is supposed to be minimum of Max +1 X 25% then i am not seeing it work properly.

10-21-2014, 07:43 AM	#84
Endymion Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Bonus criticals aren't ( ( max + 1 ) * bonus crit multiplier ), they're just a multiplier on whatever the pre-bonus crit damage was.

10-21-2014, 07:46 AM	#85
Shonto New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Temps and buffs aside, your own damage range (when I looked) for each weapon is 4,696 to 17,347, so your max hit, just using those numbers, is 369% of your minimum. RNG theoretically dictates you will get special crits as often on the low end of your hits as you get them on the high end, so you should expect to see pretty much the range you displayed. Though you came out much better on the low end (51/34 = 150%, 80/34 = 235%) than the high end (161/136 = 118%, 222/136 = 163%), but it was also a short test.

10-21-2014, 04:01 PM	#86
Silzin Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Thank you both, i released my mistake after i went to bed and m mind keep working on it.

10-24-2014, 03:07 PM	#87
Torri Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Endymion said: ↑ “Bonus criticals aren't ( ( max + 1 ) * bonus crit multiplier ), they're just a multiplier on whatever the pre-bonus crit damage was.” Not really the hoped for answer, but thanks for setting the record straight. Somewhat underwhelming to have a Fabled crit hit for less than a baseline crit but sometimes the rng isn't your friend. More and more it seems

10-24-2014, 04:57 PM	#88
Arieste Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Torri said: ↑ “Not really the hoped for answer, but thanks for setting the record straight. Somewhat underwhelming to have a Fabled crit hit for less than a baseline crit but sometimes the rng isn't your friend. More and more it seems” Given some of the things we've discovered by looking at Wards (which are a good baseline since they have no inherent variance), I think all the crits may be suffering incorrect log tags. See Ward Weirdness thread in priest section for more details/examples. That may not be the only problem though.

10-24-2014, 07:19 PM	#89
Endymion Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Arieste said: ↑ “Given some of the things we've discovered by looking at Wards (which are a good baseline since they have no inherent variance), I think all the crits may be suffering incorrect log tags. See Ward Weirdness thread in priest section for more details/examples. That may not be the only problem though.” This was addressed in said ward thread, but for people who only read this thread, the issue with wards was specific to wards and only an issue with the identification of crit types in the logs for wards; the actual values were correct.

10-25-2014, 02:12 PM	#90
Buffrat Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Critting dots seems weird. It doesn't seem to give a **** about your initial hit but if the first tick mythicrits every tick will mythicrit. If the initial hit mythicrits but the first tick legendary crits every tick will be legendary. Idk. Maybe it's just specific to assassin dots.