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04-21-2005, 01:34 PM
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#61 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 18
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-------------------------- I really enjoy playing EQ2 and don't want to see it die in such an amoral manner. We don't need inept players with top notch equipment and spells because their daddy has RL cash to [Removed for Content] away on them. We don't need high level characters that bought their way there. Right now, when you see a level 50 character with good equipment, you know they earned everything they have. If Exchange does live, that will evaporate. -------------------------- Really? How do you know they earned it? If a player sucks... well, he sucks. Don't group. Amoral? Um... not to pick nits, but Everquest is a business, not a religion. Well, sometimes it isn't a religion  |
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04-21-2005, 02:18 PM
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#62 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 357
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Well my dear friends at SoE when will be macroing and account sharing be allowed!!! I mean, take player X who enjoys to lvl his adventurer, but has no time to lvl his toon as a tradeskiller, why shouldn't that person be allowed to us macroing to lvl his tradeskiller, or hire someone 2 do so when he is offline !!! It's his toon, he pays rl money for that - let him advance the way he wants!!!! And can I spent some RL$ so that someone (yeah bad attempt of sarcasm) IMHO, with this change: -> Farm Botters will stay on both the servers, exchange or non-exchange. ... I really hope that the majority will be against this on my server!! I love this game, despite a lot of open issues and problems here and there. - I learn everyday something new, improve my game play a bit, get further on quests - still scream WOOOT on the guild chat if I find a rare, be happy with others if they get a master chest etc ...
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04-21-2005, 04:36 PM
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#63 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6
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I think that most of you are blowing this WAY out of proportion. SOE will be creating exchange-only servers and POSSIBLY converting existing servers depending on demand. Now, let's assume that they don't convert any servers and only decide to create new exchange-only servers. Ok, how does this affect you? You're still playing on your server, which happens to be non-exchange, and the botters and farmers will still exist, possibly diminish as they transfer over to the exchange servers. How is it any different than it is now? That random player you group with today might have gotten his item off of eBay or IGE, you can't be 100% sure that he didn't. And if you are on a non-exchange server, he can't buy items off of there to put on his character. The way I see it, it's smart business. Not only is SOE alleviating a lot of stress on their customer service, but they're also earning money from something that already goes on regardless of whatever policy they instigate. By legimitizing it and creating SEPARATE servers apart from the regular servers, they not only appease those who want to buy their way through the game but also take these people off the non-exchange servers and gives us some relief. And I could care less about botters and farmers if they're not on my server because it doesn't interfere with my gameplay at all. Before you decide to cancel your account in a fit of fury, consider all the facts. Most people only see the words 'selling...item/character/plat...allowed' and decide that SOE is the devil. When really all they are is a business.
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04-21-2005, 05:16 PM
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#64 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 27
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I don't think anyone will argue that the mindsets, and the way one approaches the game, are different between those of us that think this idea blows goats. and those that like it We all know this will come to ALL servers..and other games...if this works out on the selected servers. That means the attitude most prevalent among those for this idea (LEET kids, and those who don't want to earn their stuff, or even bothering to play the lower levels) will not only be coming to your server, but will likely influence others on the fence. It's human nature to take the path of least resistance, and if everyone else around you has the best gear, and money to burn, while you are struggling, the temptation will be there. And there goes the game, why even bother to play it and earn anything, or take pride in your accomplishments when you can just buy a leveled toon and all the top gear? That is what Sony is counting on, and that is why it must stop now. If it is important to you as it is to me, cancel your account and see what happens
Message Edited by Vlawde_Mcdeth on 04-21-2005 06:34 AM
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04-21-2005, 05:28 PM
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#65 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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The real problem here isn't wether they have a special server for this or not. Even Sony has said they can't stop it. So it will continue on as always (on all servers), even if Sony is taking a cut from the exchange servers. The problem is they have opened 'Pandoras Box'. Game developers have been pushing this for a while and it was a big hot topic at the last developers convention. They are looking to supliment income with MICROPAYMENTS. It's comming on the consoles and its here in the PC. If Sony shows this is the direction they want to take and we let them... we only have ourselves to blame when we paying for every play. Once they bring it in... It's here for good and will only get bigger. It's like a sales tax. The Government never brings them in and then takes them away after a little while or better yet lowers the rate. Lol. Either you let it happen or you play another game.
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04-21-2005, 05:50 PM
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#66 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Forge of the Ages
Posts: 186
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I agree with you 100% Expert .. But to those of you who are planning on canceling your accounts .. at least take advantage of the benefit and get soem of your money back and sell your account to one of those newbies thats going to buy it .. not hard to have a level 50 by now heh
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04-21-2005, 05:51 PM
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#67 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6
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What makes you so sure that they're going to eventually implement it on all servers? The way I see it, SOE has a percentage of players who would pay money for equipment/money/levels, and a percentage of players who wouldn't. By converting all the servers to exchange, it alienates those of us who don't want to play with the ones who pay money for their status. SOE is smart and despite the negative stigma surrounding them, there is no denying that their games garner players, and lots of them. I firmly believe that they will not convert all the servers to exchange-only because that only serves to shut out a hefty percentage of their player base. Rather, a nice medium will be established which will placate both types of players. Also, some players have had concerns that this will encourage farming on the regular non-exchange servers. My reply to that is, how? As economics teaches us, there can be no increase in supply if there isn't a subsequent increase in demand. If players don't want more items, why would the farmers produce more? Rather, the incentive lies in the exchange-only servers. Despite the fact that there are more sellers and the market is more competitive, you'll also get much more exposure for your goods, which offsets the negatives of jumping into a competitive market. Better to have competition and lots of buyers than to have a few buyers but no competition.
Overall, I think this is another case of the /pizza command and the tradeskill patch a while back. People threw a riot when SOE implemented the /pizza command, saying that they'll quit because of the 'in-game advertising' (which is to say, was non-existent), and the tradeskill patch was quite unpopular too. Not to mention the Adventure Pack which people accused SOE of charging for 'free content' they should have received normally despite all the OTHER content in the game that was provided freely in prior patches. Sure, there will be some people who quit due to this exchange server issue, but I don't believe it will destroy the game. One more note, SOE seems to be setting a lot of 'firsts' lately. They were the first to implement a legitimate web page-based character stats tracking (legitimate meaning not using packet capture methods or log scanners), the first to offer an in-game way of ordering food, the first to create a MMORPG that you couldn't play at max quality on even the most powerful of hardware, and the first to legitimize in-game selling and buying using real-world currency. It seems like they're trying to establish themselves as a unique company that offers much more than what a typical MMORPG company offers. Message Edited by ExpertNewbie on 04-21-2005 06:13 AM |
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04-21-2005, 06:16 PM
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#68 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2
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A valid point here, but you make a faulty assumption that the players have some kind of say-so in whether this new system goes in or not. The Exchange is going to happen because SoE has deemed it a good business move. Businesses do not often make such major moves without some research. If this move showed little or no profit potential, SoE wouldn’t be touching it, because they KNOW it is a very controversial issue. There is big money in this and SoE does know that a select few people will cancel their account over it, but that is small potatoes compared to what they stand to make. People forget that SoE is in the business of making money. SoE is not a philanthropic organization that exists to make everyone happy even if it costs them money to do so.
The vast majority of people, in my opinion, aren’t going to have a problem with this. Some will use it but many just won’t care at all because it won’t directly affect them. One thing that is important to understand is that the EQ2 forum posters represent an extremely small percentage of players. Just because some people here hate this idea and are threatening to cancel their accounts means very little. Not to mention, I have always found it amazing that the people who threaten to cancel their accounts so rarely do, or so it seems. Throughout several MMOs I have seen the “I WILL CANCEL!” threat, and those same people often seem to be around the next time a new system is introduced that they don’t agree with and then they threaten to cancel their account again, and again, and again.
SoE does want player feedback, as they have asked for it, however, make no mistake, this is a business move for them. They KNOW that some players who feel that buying/selling items/plat is “cheating” will go into cardiac arrest over this. You can’t stop this new system unless you could get a significant portion of the playerbase to cancel their accounts (really cancel them, not just stop playing for a week). The problem is, that isn’t going to happen. The fraction of a percent of players represented on these forums only have a fraction of a percent of people who would seriously cancel their account over this. Most of them are probably not enjoying the game anyways and already plan to cancel. SoE knows this, just FYI.
Instead of threatening SoE with canceling your account and accomplishing nothing other than making yourself look like a jack [Removed for Content], perhaps those of you upset over this should try to offer some constructive criticism on the matter. You may as well accept that you are going to have to compromise, because the system looks like it is going in (at the VERY least on some servers). What say-so you do have is HOW it is implemented, so why not focus on working with that, instead of trying to stop it altogether, which you simply can not do? |
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04-21-2005, 06:24 PM
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#69 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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That is an interesting thought on the not all servers becoming exchange servers and I will hope you right but 2 things come to mind: 1. SOE will evenually want to regain profits lost on the non exchange servers. Its well known companies feel these are stolen profits. 2. SOE cant come down on people selling for rl$ on your non exchange server if the condone it on others. I am afrid the only way I feel SOE will mark me down as a NO is by my cancellation. Otherwise I am telling them it is ok for them to change the game halfway through. It simply is not.
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04-21-2005, 06:28 PM
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#70 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 27
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Uh..Sony SAID they would if this worked out.....and to their other games as well. Don't think for a moment you will be safe from this on a non exchange server. It WILL become one if this works out
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04-21-2005, 06:36 PM
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#71 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 26
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Simply put....this is just demonstrating how greedy SOE is. They can't put a halt to the Ebayers and places like Playerauctions, so they figure they'll just allow it only on THEIR terms and make the money themselves. Personally, I really had no problem with ebayers and playerauctions. Their numbers were relatively small and if people were stupid enough to pay real money for in-game items, then that's their problem (although I do think it definitely affected the game in a negative way, however, wasn't a huge enough problem to ruin the game). This new announcement is just going to completely ruin the game....IF they allow it on current servers. By all means, create new servers and keep that crap there...I don't care, as I won't be moving. But, please please PLEASE.....don't bring it to our current servers. I know there's 'behind the scenes' buying and selling going on now, and things are just fine....so far. Applying your new service to our current servers is just going to completely ruin the game for a LOT of people. Just goes to show....HE WHO HAS THE MOST MONEY, WINS!!!
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04-21-2005, 06:40 PM
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#72 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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In response to :Instead of threatening SoE with canceling your account and accomplishing nothing other than making yourself look like a jack [Removed for Content], perhaps those of you upset over this should try to offer some constructive criticism on the matter. You may as well accept that you are going to have to compromise, because the system looks like it is going in (at the VERY least on some servers). What say-so you do have is HOW it is implemented, so why not focus on working with that, instead of trying to stop it altogether, which you simply can not do? Ok then I propose a few constructive changes: Why not sell the gold or characters directlly throug SOE. That way it won't affect my drops, spawns and others BUT change the color of the name of those who purchase through the exchange to show they have bought there way to that stat. That way the dad can play with their son and those that don't want to spend the time on the game can still lvl up. Of couse they will not be able to give plat away to non exchange players. That way we can see who the no talents are.
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04-21-2005, 06:41 PM
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#73 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6
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Would you mind pointing out where exactly you found that Sony said they were going to eventually implement it on all servers? Because I sure as hell can't find it. As for 'making up' for lost revenue, I believe there are more players that would quit playing if all the servers were changed to exchange servers than those that will stay and actually purchase items. SOE probably knows this and won't convert all the servers because the loss is greater than the gain. Also, many people seem to think that EQ2 is dying from a lack of subscribers, which I find kind of funny considering they are ranked 3rd for most subscribers in the US, with Everquest 1 being in 2nd and World of Warcraft in 1st. I know of many other games that are getting along fine with 1/5 of the subsribers that EQ2 has.
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04-21-2005, 06:44 PM
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#74 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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Smed wrote:
Hello everyone, I'm going to be focusing my posting about this subject in this forum. I'm reading them in other forums, but I'll be doing most of my posting and responding here. Comments: 1) This will not make farming worse on the non-exchange servers - One large thing we've been doing is developing the technology behind catching farmers. We recently banned a bunch of people for breaking the EULA. We have more ability to do this now. Sure, it's not perfect, but I have to say this is going to be something we are vigilant about... in fact, I think it's fair to say brutally vigilant about. When it comes right down to it, we obviously don't have enough GM's to be everywhere.. but we also have many other ways to catch people doing this stuff, and that's where we have been focusing some of our time prior to the launch of this service.
2) New Servers vs. converting existing servers - we're going to light up new servers first and see how the demand is. We hear you loud and clear about breaking up communities. Will opening exchange servers do that to some extent? Maybe a little... but I doubt a lot. It's going to be interesting to see how the polls come down on this one. When we've done them in the past.. there are a LOT more people in the "I don't really care but I wouldn't do it" category than on either the yes or no side.. and the people on the No side tend to really be in the "NO" side.. not the "no" side. Please give us a chance on this and see how things actually go.. the truth is we don't have any real idea how the polls are going to come out now that we're not asking "should we do this" but rather "how should we do this". It's too easy for people to give a quick answer when asking whether or not this should be done.. there are many real life examples of this. Now that it is here... please think about it and perhaps get to know the other side of the argument first. I can tell you I've had a lot of conversations with people that actually do purchase in-game things. Lots of times the answer is "I don't have time" or "I want to play with my kid and I'm level 46" or something along those lines. Those may not be arguments you agree with, but at least think about why other people do this. Don't assume that the person doing this is some "auction farmer".. the majority of the time it's just a normal person like you playing their character through fairly and squarely and wants to make some money when they see a good opportunity. 3) The Future- this is a huge point I tried to make in the community letter - in the future there are going to be a lot of different ways to monetize online games. Maybe subscriptions aren't the only way. Also remember game design is an evolutionary thing - there could easily be a game where a "scarcity" model (i.e. stuff is rare because it doesn't spawn that often or it's hard to get) doesn't exist. What about a game where the core gameplay is about action.. but superficial stuff like appearence which doesn't neccessarily change gameplay directly can be bought and sold on market. Imagine if in that game real people could design cool clothes (Second Life does this now btw) and sell them to other people. I realize that game isn't EQ2, and I'm not trying to suggest that it is.. it's just that things evolve, and eventually you have to try new things. What we're doing here is trying to be respectful to the people that don't want to participate, but still offer people this option if they so desire it. All I would ask is your consideration of these points. Of course there are plenty of passionate arguments on both sides of this issue.. and I respect that. John Smedley President, Sony Online Entertainment |
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04-21-2005, 07:07 PM
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#75 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6
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I read that 3 times and I couldn't find one line that said "We will be changing all the servers to exchange servers in the future." The closest thing was Smedley stating that MMORPGs are evolving and that there is more than one way of gaining profits than just by subscriptions alone. Overall, this is the usual routine of "new patch/addition/whatever sucks I'm cancelling my account" and will die down once people get used to it. It always happens without fail. SOE could come out with a patch tomorrow that completely overhauls the gameplay and makes it 2X more fun that it is now and guaranteed you'll have tons of people on the forums threatening to cancel their account.
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04-21-2005, 07:25 PM
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#76 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 27
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Right here...and read between the lines too. "some servers" will be "All servers' if it benefits Sony financially:
Hello Everyone, We have a big announcement coming out in the press in the next day, and I wanted to make sure you heard it from me directly rather than reading an article about it. Starting in late June, SOE will begin offering a new service called Station Exchange. This secure service will allow EverQuest II players on specific servers to buy and sell the right to use items, coin and characters to one another. To be clear, all we are doing is facilitating these transactions. We are NOT in the business of selling virtual goods ourselves. I'm sure this is going to come as a shock to many of you, since for the past six years, we have held the line in not allowing these sorts of things to occur. I'd like to explain the primary drivers for this change from our perspective: First: It's obvious that a large percentage of our players either don't mind this activity or actively participate in it. We've done a fair amount of homework on this subject, and we believe this is a $200 million dollar market worldwide, and there are a huge number of our players taking part in the buying and selling of virtual goods. We have conducted polls, and the vast majority of players either don’t care about it or would like to participate in it. We believe that by allowing this to happen on select servers, we can have a solution for both the many players who want to participate in this and for those who don’t. Second: Dealing with fraudulent transactions of one type or another takes up roughly 40% of our customer service people's time. We have players calling us up or requesting in-game service for activities related to these sorts of transactions constantly, even though they are specifically disallowed by our EULA. You may ask why the percentage is that high when it's not allowed in the first place? The answer is simple. Many times, people in these situations aren't up front with us about what actually happened. "My sword disappeared from my inventory" comes to mind, when what actually happened is the player has sold the item to someone else. Our CS people have to take the time to investigate this claim because if something legitimately happened, we of course want to take care of the player's needs. We believe that by taking this course, we will free up a great number of resources to deal with other things for our players. Third: We see this as a potentially interesting model for future games. If we came up with a game specifically designed around these sorts of transactions, it might be pretty cool. Online gaming is always evolving, and we’re going to see how a sanctioned exchange service shakes out in EQII. From our perspective, it's always wise to keep pushing the envelope. With the big reasons we're doing this laid out, I'd like to now tell you about the process: On Wednesday, you'll see some press about Station Exchange. After about a week, we will conduct an in-game poll that's going to ask whether you: 1) Want to play on an "Exchange enabled" server 2) Do not want to play on an "Exchange enabled" server 3) Don't really care Based on the results of this poll, we will light up a certain amount of new servers that are specifically "Exchange enabled." If the percentage of players who want this service is high enough, we might consider converting some existing servers to "Exchange enabled." Players who want to play on those servers will have the opportunity to transfer over to the "Exchange enabled" servers for free on a one-time-only basis (but you can't ever move that character off these servers). We will, of course, let people who don't want to stay on an "Exchange enabled" server off with a free transfer. I want to be clear here: We will be lighting up a few new servers that are specifically “Exchange enabled,” and the number of existing servers we convert to “Exchange enabled” will be based on how many people actually want to be on "Exchange enabled" servers. In addition to the issues listed above, you may ask, "What about farming?" The simple answer to this is that we're going to continue to heavily enforce the rules of EQ II, and those rules don't permit players to monopolize spawns or in any way harm the play experience of another player. We will continue to enforce these rules, but we also think that by allowing for a legitimate and secure way to do this there will be fewer problems on the non-Exchange servers. I realize this is a lot to think about, and I expect a pretty good debate to start on this subject. We welcome all your feedback, as it will help determine the future of this service. All I ask is that you consider the fact that we're really addressing this problem in the best possible way for all sides of this issue. John Smedley President, Sony Online Entertainment
Message Edited by Vlawde_Mcdeth on 04-21-2005 08:26 AM
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04-21-2005, 07:46 PM
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#77 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
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It doesn't say it will happen to ALL servers. It says it will happen to some if the Polls show an interest. It's not that people are just looking for something to complain about like in the new patches. Its that SOE doesn't care what we have to say about OUR game. As it said in his statement, they are not asking if we want it as it is already decided. I realize SOE is a buisness but shame on those dumb fools for buying items... They have done soooo much damage to the game. I don't want to pay $100 a month to keep up with everyone else. PLEASE SOE, DON"T MIX US UP UNLESS YOU SINGLE THEM OUT. I think I was onto something with the different color name thing. Its that helpless feeling we get when a company we deal with does what they want no matter what we want.
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04-21-2005, 09:32 PM
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#78 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 45
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OK, I get a little wiser as I continue to get older (much older it feels like) and it was a good thing I slept on it. Here's my take now. (Executive summary for those of you that won't read all this: I'm staying, but pre-setting conditions upon which I will leave) The game is still fun and the guild and new relationships are what I most enjoy these days. Initially, at least, the so-called Exchange Servers will be limited to new servers if I read the letter correctly. While I feel like what SOE is doing here is 100% hyocritical, bordering (or full into) unethical, and demonstrates an outright lust for money over understanding what's important to players, but some of you may be right, we on the non-Exchange servers are mostly unaffected. I will point out now, however, that my first assumption about anything SOE says is absolute rubbish. I was probably stupid for taking them at their word in the first place, but I am absolutely convinced that they are lying on this one. Their words say that a "significant percentage" expressed "some level of interest" in having these kinds of servers. The poll was supposedly conducted amongst players of EQLive before EQ2 was launched. To me this means a few things: 1. They didn't get a majority percentage so they called "significant percentage" enough to justify what they were always planning to do anyway. 2. They fully intended to do this all along anyway since it was polled for long before EQ2 was released. 3. They manufactured their "significant percentage" by presenting a biased poll. I haven't seen the poll but when they say "some level of interest" that tells me that there was likely a range that went from "not interested" to "maybe interested" to "somewhat interested" to "fully interested" or some iteration therein. If you add all the other "interesteds" and exclude the "not interesteds" you probably get a "significant percentage." 4. Building a process to host this sort of thing is not simple. If they plan on releasing it soon, they've been working on it all along. No way they crank this out over a month's time. 5. They have lost touch with or simply have no regard for what the actual game players think. With this broadening insight, I now choose to proceed with my eyes as wide open as I can get them (assuming that I am not yet dastardly enough in my thinking to predict the next ridiculous move by SOE). My conditions for continuing are as follows: 1. Highkeep server does not become an Exchange server. They did say that they would convert old servers if the demand was "high enough." They failed to define "high enough" nor illumine us on how they intend to determine that. This essentially sets them up to convert servers on an arbitrary whim. If it happens to Highkeep, I'm gone. After penning a letter to Smedley, of course. The reason is because a) I don't want to be on one of those servers, b) this will split our guild. Despite the fact that SOE will "benevolently" allow us a one-time free move to a different server, it screws the guild, the guild accomplishments, etc. 2. I do not personally witness a bunch of bots & farmers at work. I simply don't have the energy or patience to report these and I certainly don't have the faith in SOE that they'll give a flip anyway. If I see them in increased numbers (because I've already seen them), I'm just going to hang it up. No sense putting up with it. 3. Our guild needs to update its charter. We must assertively state that: We will not accept botters or farmers. If someone transfers a character from one owner to another they're out of the guild. We will not tolerate outside of the game purchases of items, money, characters, etc. Any that do are instantly booted, no second chances. 4. If I start grouping with people that have bought their characters and don't know how to play them and I start dying as a result. This will undermine my confidence in my fellow players and will discourage me from grouping with non-guild members. Much as I love my guild, I believe we need to group with others outside the guild to get our guild name out and demonstrate our competence. When this goes away, a major component of what a MMORPG is goes away. 5. If I can't complete a heritage quest or harvest a node because the botters have them camped. 6. If bug fixes come EVEN SLOWER because the programmers now have to either come up with two fixes each time (one for Exchange servers and one for non) OR if all the fixes suddenly start flowing to the people that have the money (e.g. the Exchange servers). 7. If I can't buy a rare item from a broker (because they are all listed elsewhere). The reasons listed in Smedley's email for doing this smack of a team that was assembled to justify in consumable terms why the sudden reversal in policy was "necessary." That Smedley put his name to it mystifies me. What a pile of contrived hooey. Seriously, how does this approach address the customer service call issues they have now while THERE ARE NO EXCHANGE SERVERS? How do the Exchange servers alleviate the current problems? What motivation do the botters have to move their operations to the Exchange servers where everyone will be able to do it? And how will SOE be able to enforce a no-botting, etc. policy now that they are essentially making it OK elsewhere? (grammar edit) Message Edited by Hrogath on 04-21-2005 10:37 AM |
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04-21-2005, 11:31 PM
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#79 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 81
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Not sure why I post but... >Seriously, how does this approach address the customer service call issues they have now while THERE ARE NO EXCHANGE SERVERS? How do the >Exchange servers alleviate the current problems? What motivation do the botters have to move their operations to the Exchange servers where everyone will >be able to do it? And how will SOE be able to enforce a no-botting, etc. policy now that they are essentially making it OK elsewhere? All of this is rather reasonably answered in the message announcing this service. Many people actively participate in these buying and selling activities. (fact that is well documented). Since it isn't regulated in any way there are people cheated and who end up being screwed. I know this to be a fact from people I know in EQ who have purchased goods and accounts. These people then call SOE and try to get them to clean up the mess. This drives up customer services costs! So doing a regulated service with in game secure transactions will eliminate a support headache. Exchange servers will at worse neither make the problems worse then they are today on non exchange servers. However, it is reasonable to believe that some people who like to buy plat, accounts, and items will move to servers that provide a secure approved method to do so. This will reduce the number of people looking to buy these things on NON-Exchange servers. So it is reasonable to expect that as the demand on non-exchange servers decreases so will people farming to provide inventories to supply that demand. (Basic economics which should be obvious). So this will very likely reduce farming on non exchange servers, which again reduces customer service calls having to research and cancel farmer accounts. What motivation do botters have to move to exchange servers? A reduction in demand will result in surplus inventories, a reduction is sales price which in term will make farming less worthwhile. Thus they will move because they can't make enough money to make it worthwhile. Again they specifically say that they have made no changes to their policy on Boting. Botting is not permited on any servers exchange or non exchange. So I believe a big motivation here is to reduce costs in customer support dealing with fraud or fraud related calls, and botting issues. I don't see where they have said they will charge for this service at all. And even if they do charge some fee per transaction it would still be reasonable. However I believe the big $$ return will be on reduced customer support. Remember also they said they will be running an in game poll to see how many people are interested in this. If you don't like it vote your mind. Just keep an open mind that some people DO want this type of service.
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04-22-2005, 01:38 AM
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#80 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 45
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Well, I for one am glad you posted. I'm willing to listen to reason and discuss without flaming. But here's what I think you might be missing in your analysis. I'f I'm uber game boy, why would I want to go to a server where everyone is uber game boy? In fact, it's likely to cost me more hard dollars to be uber on an Exchange Server for the simple reason that any and everyone can do it. If the motivation is to be better and cooler than everyone else, how is that accomplished over there? Seems to me that the 50/50's being sold on the non-Exchange servers will increase in value or, at worst, stay the same. So how does that port the problem away? My basic logic tells me that if customer service is a problem now without the Exchange servers, it's not going to suddenly get better with their introduction. In fact, it stands to get worse as people encounter problems on the Exchange servers in addition to all the people getting ripped off on the non-exchange servers. I think the fact that people get ripped off is the best deterrent for this kind of thing. I understand your economics premises but I'm not seeing you include the psychological implications as well. Regarding the poll, I think I have already established my suspicion that their polls cannot be trusted. Sure, I'll vote my 'no' but to what end? |
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04-22-2005, 02:15 AM
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#81 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6
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Hrogath, keep in mind that not everyone buys their levels so they can be 'uber' and show off. Some do it so they can keep up with their friends without having to spend countless hours grinding up to their level and others do it because they want to experience the entire game world without having to grind to 50 just so they can walk around without having everything kill them on sight. There's probably more reasons out there why people would buy their way into the game, but not all of them are because they want to be 'uber'. The price for high-level characters will stay the same. Reason is because the demand will be the same as before, perhaps lower. If prices do increase, it will be because the market has become smaller with less demand, so therefore the price that the suppliers charge is higher. SOE has to play this one right. Of course there's already a lot of negative feedback on it, which is typical for any drastic changes that a MMORPG company makes. The people who are against it are much more vocal than those who don't care and those who promote it. I, for one, don't care because I'm pretty sure this change won't affect me in any way, nor my guild. But if our server turns into an exchange server, I will consider quitting. Too many people are jumping the gun as usual. I wonder how many people cancelled their accounts due to /pizza and the tradeskill changes a while back...only to resubscribe later on when they have calmed themselves down.
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04-22-2005, 02:30 AM
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#82 |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1
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I think there are several valid opinions for and against this concept. The only thing that is driving me crazy are the geniuses who state "If this comes to my server I am gone". Hate to break it to ya, it's already there. Just not run by SOE. There's not a single server out there right now that I can't browse goods for sale on with Enott's, IGE, eBay, or any of the other many third-party companies out there that run this sort of business. The debate is NOT should people be allowed to buy or sell items/equipment/coin for real life currency, it's who do you want in control of those markets? SOE who probably has at least a little better sense of watching out for the overall games health or some third-party company who could care less what happens to the game, rather are they making as much money as possible. Naysayers and SOE haters aside, SOE is NOT going to destroy the game in any real sense. If this decision starts to show a MASS drop in subscriptions I am sure they will nix it. First and foremost the game makes the money for them. Without the game in existence they can't profit from in-game sales. I would LOVE to see the concept of selling game items for cash gone. But let's be realistic. I would like to see gas prices cheaper, broadband prices going down not up, cable companies doing their jobs, the deficit drop, and many many other things. In realism, their not changing soon. So until then the idea is to best handle the situations. Given the choice between SOE running the sales and IGE running the sale I simply choose SOE.
Message Edited by Malachi Krieg on 04-21-2005 03:32 PM |
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04-22-2005, 02:51 AM
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#83 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 45
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Fair enough. So my own analysis is a bit short sighted. I thought this was why mentoring was introduced but I acknowledge that this may not be good enough for everyone. I also still see this as a reason that the marketers of these toons will remain on the non-Exchange servers because people will have friends everywhere. So my point is that I still don't see why the same customer complaints re: fraud that they're getting today will diminish with the introduction of Exchange servers. I think you essentially make this point in your paragraph following the one I quoted above. |
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04-22-2005, 02:57 AM
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#84 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 45
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First off, hopefully I'm not coming off as a hater, because I love the game...just hate this idea. I know the secondary markets are already there, but my premise is that if some of them are still unreliable, it casts a shadow over the whole enterprise and will likely deter some people from engaging in these activities. No, I don't still believe in the tooth fairy, but I'd like to believe this practice is kept to a minimum by some of this doubt. What I really don't want to see is anyone adding legitimacy to these practices. SOE entering the business would do just that I expect. Granted, that's only on the Exchange servers, I know, but my conclusion is that it will only embolden others. And more of this can/will affect gameplay. I'm not flying off the handle. I'm hanging in there, but now I do see certain conditions that would cause me to bail out too where I didn't before. |
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04-22-2005, 05:39 AM
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#85 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1
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I have been EQ faithfull for nearly 6 years now , if this goes live I guess I can do other things with my time . The whole idea really dosent sit with me at all . They claim they spend all this budget cracking down on people who sell/ebay stuff, now it will be ingame issues related to farming and monopolizing that they can dodge by using the lame cs ticket method . And any one who wants to enjoy and play the game will take a back seat to those who want to buy thier way thru it . Sony can wonder why they have 5 less accts 3 eq1 and 2 eq 2 not giving them an income anymore. This is my Fantasy , you cant buy or sell it ........... Ghome |
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04-22-2005, 09:34 AM
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#86 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 81
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Your thoughts here are valid but I think I disagree with your conclusions. I don't think most people buy things to be uber persay. In fact I felt it was quite curious why people would pay for accounts, plat and items back several years ago when EQ was fairly new. I mean here you have this wonderful game with adventure at all levels and progression. Fact is I think most RPGs are about the progression not the end game. I used to write a months RPG newsletter so I'm pretty hard core about role playing games... Anyway being curious I started seeking out people who bought accounts and stuff and asking them why? I even reformed a few Contrary to popular opinion most of the people I spoke to were pretty reasonable and had good reasons for doing what they did. Generally it was a trade off of time vs money. Not one person I spoke to had any interest in being more uber than anyone else. They were more concerned about their ability to get somewhere in the game. Be that a good start, getting a necessary item, or skiping the level grind. So I don't think people who want to buy stuff are going to be concerned about moving to an exchange server where other people can buy stuff. They will however very likely be concerned about the same things everyone is farmers and bots It would be interesting if there was someone who actually bought a character, item or plat would follow up and explain why? Come on now is the time to come out hah I almost forgot my point. That being that the people who move to exchange servers will be people who want to buy a character or something without having to worry about being cheated or loosing out. I don't think they are going to be thinking oh my I can't be the most uber player because everyone here is buying their way to uberness. I suspect the servers will be fairly normal with probably more than the average set of farming and botting problems. Message Edited by Ethion on 04-21-2005 10:37 PM
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04-22-2005, 11:55 AM
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#87 |
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Loremaster
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1
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I think its getting a bit out of hand, I thought Everquest was a roleplaying game, and starting officially supporting selling outside the game for real money, is just a bit to much IMO, In my book roleplaying games is all about getting your things by playing your character, not to take a short cut and go buy things, Im sorry to say it, but if this so called "service" will be introduced on the server im on, i will cancel my accounts, and move on to another mmorpg, it takes the spirit completely out of the game, and as one said, it once was about the game, its like SoE thinks its a kindergarten, and the kid that whines the most gets hes way. please SoE, lets return to the old roleplaying buisness, yes you might step on a few peoples toes, but at least the whole roleplaying concept is intact.
A worried EQ1+2 player. |
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04-23-2005, 08:00 PM
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#88 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 27
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'Anyway being curious I started seeking out people who bought accounts and stuff and asking them why? I even reformed a few  . But the thing is they aren't generally kids looking to be more uber. What they are is people who don't have a lot of time and feel they are missing out on drops, not progressing fast enough, or just wanting to skip the grind to get to the end.' What is the point of getting a game where the bulk of the content is already played? And at the end (high levels) once you do that content, there is nothing to do. Would you buy a Mario game to simply fight the last boss and see teh credits?
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04-24-2005, 11:04 PM
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#89 |
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General
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3
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I'd really love to see the "Survey" they're going to take.LOL I can see the fine print now.
Survey conducted exclusively with people that love the idea of SOE Station Exchange. All other parties were not asked.
SOE:We got a 100% approval rating,we will be going through with the Exchange servers.
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04-25-2005, 06:01 PM
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#90 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NE England
Posts: 5
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As a matter of interest, I was here earlier today, and the poll THEY have had a total of 272 out 519 voters saying a distinct NO to exchange servers (at that time). If that's typical, and going by the posts I've seen on this thread, No is very typical in response to exchange servers, it does suggest that SOE's poll was either biased or pure BS. Apologies if the link has been mentioned anywhere else in this thread, I didn't have time to read every post here!
Message Edited by Furtim on 04-25-2005 07:06 AM |
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