Skeleton rework

[Zabjade]

Was more likely to be understood.BTW for for a frame of Reference This is what an Anime MMO would probably look like (Fanwork? of MoH) and SOGA it is not.

[Amphibia]

Zabjade wrote:

Was more likely to be understood.BTW for for a frame of Reference This is what an Anime MMO would probably look like (Fanwork? of MoH) and SOGA it is not.

That has to be some of the most hideous music I have ever heard in my life.

[Zabjade]

What you don't like caramelldanse? :þbut it's addictive, you will become one with the caramelldanse (Note the video did not have the real dance move) I am evilHehe sooo evil And even MORE EVIL And Most Evil (Oops Sorry Can't find any imaged of Richard from Looking for group Caramelldanse)

[mo0rbid]

Zabjade wrote:

What you don't like caramelldanse? :þbut it's addictive, you will become one with the caramelldanse (Note the video did not have the real dance move) I am evilHehe sooo evil And even MORE EVIL And Most Evil (Oops Sorry Can't find any imaged of Richard from Looking for group Caramelldanse)

karamelldansen is a [Removed for Content] swedish song, why do the asians make 235654567 movies about it?

[Zabjade]

Because they CAN lol, There are many anime fans in the US and there must be a lot of Swedish fans in Japan.

[Amphibia]

Zabjade wrote:

What you don't like caramelldanse? :þbut it's addictive, you will become one with the caramelldanse (Note the video did not have the real dance move) I am evilHehe sooo evil And even MORE EVIL And Most Evil (Oops Sorry Can't find any imaged of Richard from Looking for group Caramelldanse)

Yikes! But... I don't want to become one with the caramell dance! You could torture people with that stuff, I'm sure :p

[Zabjade]

Yes I could and I know where on Youtube to find them.....

[Transen]

I'm just waiting for them to change the current /dance animation to that....now THERE's some evil.

[Zabjade]

Maybe for the Arisai if anyone deserves that dance it's them! lol

[-Arctura-]

(( oh yeah, since someone mentioned Belly buttons, thats a Texture issue.Re-doing TEXTURES in addition to bone rigs and skinning for 16 races x 2 genders x 2 visual sets (soga/non) = 64 complete character rigs, texture sets and skin modifiers. Also have to double check all animations and facial states to verify things went according to plan. (GL with that)64 characters Re-done from whatever exists right now. (they have to retain the visual feel to make them basically the same looking as before)Thats more characters than most RPGS even, that have like 12 characters and 20-30 monster model types with swapped out textures.(not to mention the SOGA characters were made overseas, not by the SOE art team, so they are re-doing someone ELSES work lol (unless they have the SOGA guys redoing their toons also)So yeah, people, complain more, it wont help anything. This is a HUGE and HEAVY project here, im proud of them for undertaking it.Redoing stuff or taking half-made work and finishing it is the HARDEST.  Doing stuff all over again from scratch is easy.Most AAA game titles give their character artists 1-2 months to make the main character of a game. Thats 64 months. However, I am assuming there are more than 1 artist(s) on the character art team. Lets say there are 3-4 senior character artists and a several juniors or underlings. thats still 2 to 2.5 years work minimum.Now, lets be optimistic and assume they have a character art team of 10+.... Now we are getting somewhere, and can hopefully see this revamp done at least before the end of the year.Im GUESSING at this point they will be introducing it with the next expansion since its ALOT of new information to just drop in a patch. It involves everyones character, and the expansion is coming up soon anyways.As usual I'm just extrapolating mainly and not 100% about any of this. if any Devs can correct me, by all means please do ---

[Drager]

i thought they were creating this new skeleton and getting rid of the old model and the soga model

[TheSummoned]

There won't be a "soga" and "classic" model anymore. And it's more like:((elves/fae/asari) + human + half elf + ratonga + iksar + ogre + troll + kittens)) x 2 genders = 16 models. YAY!I put all the elves and fae and asari in one pot since their models are basically the same, with different heads and colours. *shrug*

[Cragger]

TheSummoned wrote:

There won't be a "soga" and "classic" model anymore. And it's more like:((elves/fae/asari) + human + half elf + ratonga + iksar + ogre + troll + kittens)) x 2 genders = 16 models. YAY!I put all the elves and fae and asari in one pot since their models are basically the same, with different heads and colours. *shrug*

No, Unless your privy to more knowledge then has been confirmed release of information. The work that was/is being done was redoing the skeleton of the currently player characters. Not the skin (polygons) of the model or what you see the textures painted on. You do not need a skeleton or 'bones' system to create a model. A skeleton is purely used to determine where and how joints bend and move as well as tying into any physics system. Currently SOGA models and the original models use the same underlying skeleton. This is why the SOGA models to many have odd postures and proportions because the model had to hooked to this skeleton for animations. The problem the supposed project was to address was that for each every race/gender in EQ2 the underlying skeleton was different in ratios and proportions. This creates the problem when doing additional layers on the model (armor/clothing) that for each different skeleton the armor had to be hand tweaked to an extent to make sure it was bending in the proper places and to eliminate clipping issues. By creating a new skeleton that was identical save being rescaled or morphed for as many of the races as possible and of course a minimum of two for each gender (though I doubt they will be away with such as the beast races are hugely disproportionate to the 'human' races which includes elfs) it means new model layers will not have to be hand tweaked to the extent of before. Depending on how its done new skeletons could be placed inside the existing character models without you even noticing, with the exception of how it moves. So in terms of straight visual change it could have near negligible impact.The reality of it though is that while a new skeleton that would reduce workload to finally do real new model layers (which if you haven't noticed all armor still uses the original model layers from launch just re-textured) and open up the possibility for more variety and non conformity. It also has the just as likely potential to result in even more conformity and less diversification because now you can place work-hours on the job to get the same net output. And as each  model no longer would have need for hand tooling why reintroduce that by adding diversification per race (Racial armor being something I sorely mis from EQLive.)But that is the price to pay when you do armor/clothing as an actual 3d object instead of flat textures. Such is the reason that games such as Lineage 2 / Everquest Live, etc have such 'wardrobes'. Most of the armor is simply mapped to the character model and not as a layer over that model.

[Nakaru-Nitepaw]

I saw a ratonga version of carameldansen once lol. I almost died of cuteness, but yea i think the song is getting bit too much usage these days.

[Elepian]

Lady Uaelrea wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hokb...feature=related

If EQ2 looked like this  and had armor like this no one would even consider other games. 

I really enjoy the game - no point is rehashing the fact that I was sold based on these armors and looks.

But, if there is a chance SOE Devs actually read these posts - you guys can breathe new life into this game and become better and more popular than WOW or AOC.

I don't plan to leave but if you guys can give us anything like this so many people would be happy and even more would come back.

Everyone just about has duo core technology - so help your loyal customers.

Were the Character Models Revamped ? I don't ever remember any of the Races looking they way they looked in this video. The Ogres were never that tall, and the Humans Never have looked like that. What happened to the actual look of the player models like this? Did Sony do away with it as time progressed?

[Qandor]

Elepian@Kithicor wrote:

Lady Uaelrea wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hokb...feature=related

If EQ2 looked like this  and had armor like this no one would even consider other games. 

I really enjoy the game - no point is rehashing the fact that I was sold based on these armors and looks.

But, if there is a chance SOE Devs actually read these posts - you guys can breathe new life into this game and become better and more popular than WOW or AOC.

I don't plan to leave but if you guys can give us anything like this so many people would be happy and even more would come back.

Everyone just about has duo core technology - so help your loyal customers.

Were the Character Models Revamped ? I don't ever remember any of the Races looking they way they looked in this video. The Ogres were never that tall, and the Humans Never have looked like that. What happened to the actual look of the player models like this? Did Sony do away with it as time progressed?

They were never in the game at launch. Supposedly SoE had a revelation that the performance impact for those models and armors was too great, so they shipped with pretty much what you see today. The dreaded Soga models came later.

Couple of telling things in that video though. First of all the narrator pitches that the armor can be utilized across all humanoid type models and the way he makes it sound, it will not be a big deal to do this. He actually sounds like he is bragging about their ability to do so. Come release though, they sang a different toon. Then it was every armor was a meticulous task to refit for every single model and gender. Post release it was a bridge too far to get it done.

Interesting bit about the armor with writing on it though. That never made release either. If it had, deciphering the wrriting would have yielded, "this is the only armor model you will see for many years - get used to it".

[Snowdonia]

Here's another one for the revamp rumor mill. I hear that we'd get one body and a choice between original or SOGA for the faces. Whether that was wishful thinking or not, who can tell. /shrug

[Elepian]

Wow. Thats kind of lame. To think when I was on EQ 1, and was listening to all of the folks there talking about how they needed to get better PCs to run EQ 2.  I'll admit I am happy with EQ2 and won't be going anywhere anytime soon, (4 year vet here) It would be nice to see graphic changes, like spell effects that tie in with the spell form itself, maybe make spells a bit more powerful ( when two are combined).  Give us a means in which to put more than one spell together to create something all-together Unique.. for a time lol. Ah, i dunno. I do hope they bring these models into the game however. It would be nice to actually see an armor difference between the two genders for a change. Hell even tie it into Race for what the armor could look like, EverQuest 1 does it like that. Anyhow.. skeletal rework.  What exactly would that change? Just the Skellys throughout Norrath? or would it change players too depending on what they did?

And for that spell thingy.. I know we have Heroic Opportunities, but I'm talking about stacking spells to make a nice, doh nevermind!

[Chay]

Linuky@Valor wrote:

Is this a thread about the "skeleton rework" or is it about "I hate SOGA so [I cannot control my vocabulary] much!"?personally, I can't wait for the skeleton revamp, but I'm fine with the current models, wether it be SOE or SOGA, until the rework is done.

Ummm... because its a concern. Since they haven't been very forthwith on details. I suppose those that are happy with the state of the game as is should be admired for their ability to accept the limitations. Me? I want and expected more. If I could blend aspects of AOC and EQ2 design I'd be happier. Plus I get annoyed when people say SOGA looks like Anime characters. That's like saying a toad looks like a cat.

[Noaani]

I have come to a conclusion, based on all information avalible about this skeletal revamp from SoE employees from the day it was first announced up until the present.

It does not exist.

At the very least, it died out when Lotus left EQ2, worst case is it was never started.

My assumption is that it has been used as a means to keep players quiet about the lack of new armour art. Every time this is bought up, an SoE employee (or SoE fanboi/fangurl) trumps all with the "skeletal revamp" card, but this revamp never materializes.

The 'fact' that the Sanark model is based off the new human skeleton is unfounded as far as I am concerned, and other than statements from SoE employees, we have no reason to believe this.

Think what you want about it, but unless I see results of it go live, I am working on the assumption that it will never happen, and either was never going to happen, or SoE simply do not have the staff to finish it off.

[Snowdonia]

If that were true Noaani, they wouldn't have showcased the human male model at last years E3 or whatever gaming convention that was. Josgar has posted stuff showing it.

[TorrynWoodsrunner]

Ok, first, just because I don't recall seeing anyone really explain this, a couple of definitions for those who don't already know this:

Mesh - This is the 'skin' of any 3D object, be it player figure, monster figure, or object. Think of it as the wireframe of a paper mache statue.

Polygon - The individual multi-sided shapes that make up a mesh. The holes in the wireframe.

Texture - This is essentially the paintjob that gives a mesh its distinctive look. This would be the actual paper mache and paint you put over the wireframe.

Skeleton - In 3D terms, this is what determines what part of a mesh moves, in what direction(s), and how far. I won't burden the reader with the fully detailed explanations, but for this explanation, consider this the wooden dowel rods and hinges inside your paper mache wireframe.

Ok, we good there? Good, moving on.

Some of you are familiar with a 3D art program called Poser. I know you are, I've seen your art. I've posted my own now and then. For those who aren't familiar, Poser allows the end user to take pre-fabricated meshes, arrange them, and render art pieces such as this:

The figures, the hair (not each hair, they're more like wigs), each piece of clothing, the sword, the background plane (which holds the image of the woods) are all meshes. Now, I posted that image to make a point: Both of the main figures (the male and female) in that image are the EXACT SAME MESH AND SKELETON.

Yup, that's right. They are, when you get down to the bare essentials, the exact same construct. Here, here's a better image, showing the base figures of DAZ3D's Michael 3, Victoria 3, and The Freak:

These are the base figures, with no clothing or textures (just some general color for clarity and work-safety). They are all in the exact same pose. All three of these figures are the exact same mesh, and use the exact same skeleton. The only difference is the initial base parameters that load with each figure, and some minor scaling adjustments to the skeleton of each (you can see where Victoria's arms clip into her body...that's because the pose used was designed around the male skeleton base parameters). The differences are defined as 'morph parameters', or simply 'morphs'. They are more or less (actually more) the exact same system we use to customize our facial features in EQ2 Character Creation.

The beautiful thing about this setup is that clothing for one figure (Michael 3 for example), can be adjusted to fit any other figure based on the same mesh (Victoria 3, for example). Poser users have access to programs that will even do most of the work for them. Once the base mesh of the clothing item is adjusted, morphs can be injected to closely match morphs that already exist in the base figure. For example, I have a chainmail tunic designed for Michael 3. With some adjustment of the initial load parameters, that tunic mesh can be scaled and tweaked to fit the base Victoria 3. I can then inject morphs that will accomodate changes to Victoria's morphs...larger bust, for instance...

Now, could this work in EQ2? Sure it could, just not with a mesh like this, it's way too high-polygon, and would require an insane system to render even a few players in a small room. However, a similar system could be utilized with a base figure of lower polygon density. As you can see from just the base figures above, morphing is limited only by how far polygons can be moved without extremely distorting the mesh. Figures can be made more or less muscular, athletically built, and so on. As the head is usually the highest-polygon portion of the mesh, morphs can be used to create elven, ogrish, kerran, or even iksar-like bases.

Now I'm not saying that SOE should pour resources into developing a unified mesh for EQ2...it's a little late in the game for that. I just wanted to give folks a reference point with some visuals, in case they were curious as to what everyone else was talking about. A skeletal revamp of the existing EQ2 base figures to a unified skeletal system would certainly make a large part of this feasible in its own right.

Just my two coppers...

[Noaani]

Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:

If that were true Noaani, they wouldn't have showcased the human male model at last years E3 or whatever gaming convention that was. Josgar has posted stuff showing it.

Lotus was on the EQ2 team during Fan Fair, which is the only time I remember them saying anything public about the supposed skeletal revamp. He was the character art lead, and the person responsible for doing this so called revamp. He did the art for the Fae, Arasai and Sarnark.

He is not longer on the EQ2 team, hence the reason I believe it is no longer being worked on.

[Mysticdraco]

I just hope this isn't like the EverQuest new player models promise that they made a few years back which still hasn't come to light. I just wish we could get an official statement on what is going on, what progress (if any) has been made, and if we might be able to see the fruits of their labors (once again if there is any). I've heard a few dev's reassuring the crowds that it was coming but that it was quite a ways down the road...I just hate being kept in the dark for so long.

[ke'la]

TorrynWoodsrunner wrote:

Ok, first, just because I don't recall seeing anyone really explain this, a couple of definitions for those who don't already know this:

Mesh - This is the 'skin' of any 3D object, be it player figure, monster figure, or object. Think of it as the wireframe of a paper mache statue.

Polygon - The individual multi-sided shapes that make up a mesh. The holes in the wireframe.

Texture - This is essentially the paintjob that gives a mesh its distinctive look. This would be the actual paper mache and paint you put over the wireframe.

Skeleton - In 3D terms, this is what determines what part of a mesh moves, in what direction(s), and how far. I won't burden the reader with the fully detailed explanations, but for this explanation, consider this the wooden dowel rods and hinges inside your paper mache wireframe.

Ok, we good there? Good, moving on.

Some of you are familiar with a 3D art program called Poser. I know you are, I've seen your art. I've posted my own now and then. For those who aren't familiar, Poser allows the end user to take pre-fabricated meshes, arrange them, and render art pieces such as this:

The figures, the hair (not each hair, they're more like wigs), each piece of clothing, the sword, the background plane (which holds the image of the woods) are all meshes. Now, I posted that image to make a point: Both of the main figures (the male and female) in that image are the EXACT SAME MESH AND SKELETON.

Yup, that's right. They are, when you get down to the bare essentials, the exact same construct. Here, here's a better image, showing the base figures of DAZ3D's Michael 3, Victoria 3, and The Freak:

These are the base figures, with no clothing or textures (just some general color for clarity and work-safety). They are all in the exact same pose. All three of these figures are the exact same mesh, and use the exact same skeleton. The only difference is the initial base parameters that load with each figure, and some minor scaling adjustments to the skeleton of each (you can see where Victoria's arms clip into her body...that's because the pose used was designed around the male skeleton base parameters). The differences are defined as 'morph parameters', or simply 'morphs'. They are more or less (actually more) the exact same system we use to customize our facial features in EQ2 Character Creation.

The beautiful thing about this setup is that clothing for one figure (Michael 3 for example), can be adjusted to fit any other figure based on the same mesh (Victoria 3, for example). Poser users have access to programs that will even do most of the work for them. Once the base mesh of the clothing item is adjusted, morphs can be injected to closely match morphs that already exist in the base figure. For example, I have a chainmail tunic designed for Michael 3. With some adjustment of the initial load parameters, that tunic mesh can be scaled and tweaked to fit the base Victoria 3. I can then inject morphs that will accomodate changes to Victoria's morphs...larger bust, for instance...

Now, could this work in EQ2? Sure it could, just not with a mesh like this, it's way too high-polygon, and would require an insane system to render even a few players in a small room. However, a similar system could be utilized with a base figure of lower polygon density. As you can see from just the base figures above, morphing is limited only by how far polygons can be moved without extremely distorting the mesh. Figures can be made more or less muscular, athletically built, and so on. As the head is usually the highest-polygon portion of the mesh, morphs can be used to create elven, ogrish, kerran, or even iksar-like bases.

Now I'm not saying that SOE should pour resources into developing a unified mesh for EQ2...it's a little late in the game for that. I just wanted to give folks a reference point with some visuals, in case they were curious as to what everyone else was talking about. A skeletal revamp of the existing EQ2 base figures to a unified skeletal system would certainly make a large part of this feasible in its own right.

Just my two coppers...

Actually this is exactly what they are doing, however it is a back burner project that only seems to be worked on when there is nothing else to do.As to dev statements, there is one even in THIS THREAD that says that yes they are working on it. Also devs leaving a game does not end the project otherwise Vhalen's leaving would mean that SoE is no longer developing LORE for EQ2, or that they are no longer working on Community Relations because Blackguard and Moorguard left. When people leave a company they assign a new person to work on the project. You are also aware that SoE is based in CA and we have one of the most Draconian False advertising laws on the books right? If they state that the Sarnak use the new models(which they did) it means they advertised that, and if it is untrue, then they are in deep do do as some lawyer will be able to make MILLIONS off of them.

[Noaani]

ke'la wrote:

As to dev statements, there is one even in THIS THREAD that says that yes they are working on it.

"The quest to unlock Frogloks is live and in game now!"

Just because a red name says it, doesn't mean its true. We all remember how the above turned out (well, I do).

Since Lotus was the main developer working on the skeletal revamp, and he is no longer on the EQ2 team, and they have not announced any sort of replacement for him, and they have stated that there are no new races planned atm (one of the major tasks for Lotus' old position), I assume that his position has not been filled, thus the skeletal revamp is on hold/canceled.

I may be wrong, I honestly hope I am, but from what I am seeing (18 months+ of promises, no results to speak of, no sign of anyone in the position that would be working on this project), the realist in me says it is not being worked on at all.

[WeatherMan]

Noaani wrote:

ke'la wrote:

As to dev statements, there is one even in THIS THREAD that says that yes they are working on it.

"The quest to unlock Frogloks is live and in game now!"

Just because a red name says it, doesn't mean its true. We all remember how the above turned out (well, I do).

Since Lotus was the main developer working on the skeletal revamp, and he is no longer on the EQ2 team, and they have not announced any sort of replacement for him, and they have stated that there are no new races planned atm (one of the major tasks for Lotus' old position), I assume that his position has not been filled, thus the skeletal revamp is on hold/canceled.

I may be wrong, I honestly hope I am, but from what I am seeing (18 months+ of promises, no results to speak of, no sign of anyone in the position that would be working on this project), the realist in me says it is not being worked on at all.

I hate to say it...but I have to agree.Granted, the usual modus operandi of SOE is to treat us like mushrooms (any SWG players here remember what happened with NGE? ) - but this issue is exceeded only by the 'new armor and clothes' issue...mainly because without the skeletal revamp, there's no way we'll even see that issue resolved.To be honest, I would say just write this one off as another fib.  We really ought to be used to it by now.

[Mysticdraco]

Bah I completely forgot about the Gnorbin's post earlier in the topic. I guess I'm just wary of any promises that SOE makes due to what I have experienced in the past.  This isn't to say I'm not pleased with the work that SOE is doing the live events have been rather nice and I appreciate that. I know they are getting prepped for there next expansion but the talk of new armor and Guild halls are still ringing in my ears.

[Noaani]

WeatherMan wrote:

To be honest, I would say just write this one off as another fib.  We really ought to be used to it by now.

In a year or so, when they finally tell us it is not going to happen, you can think back and remember you heard it here first!

[-Arctura-]

ke'la wrote:

TorrynWoodsrunner wrote:

Ok, first, just because I don't recall seeing anyone really explain this, a couple of definitions for those who don't already know this:

Mesh - This is the 'skin' of any 3D object, be it player figure, monster figure, or object. Think of it as the wireframe of a paper mache statue.

Polygon - The individual multi-sided shapes that make up a mesh. The holes in the wireframe.

Texture - This is essentially the paintjob that gives a mesh its distinctive look. This would be the actual paper mache and paint you put over the wireframe.

Skeleton - In 3D terms, this is what determines what part of a mesh moves, in what direction(s), and how far. I won't burden the reader with the fully detailed explanations, but for this explanation, consider this the wooden dowel rods and hinges inside your paper mache wireframe.

Ok, we good there? Good, moving on.

Some of you are familiar with a 3D art program called Poser. I know you are, I've seen your art. I've posted my own now and then. For those who aren't familiar, Poser allows the end user to take pre-fabricated meshes, arrange them, and render art pieces such as this:

The figures, the hair (not each hair, they're more like wigs), each piece of clothing, the sword, the background plane (which holds the image of the woods) are all meshes. Now, I posted that image to make a point: Both of the main figures (the male and female) in that image are the EXACT SAME MESH AND SKELETON.

Yup, that's right. They are, when you get down to the bare essentials, the exact same construct. Here, here's a better image, showing the base figures of DAZ3D's Michael 3, Victoria 3, and The Freak:

These are the base figures, with no clothing or textures (just some general color for clarity and work-safety). They are all in the exact same pose. All three of these figures are the exact same mesh, and use the exact same skeleton. The only difference is the initial base parameters that load with each figure, and some minor scaling adjustments to the skeleton of each (you can see where Victoria's arms clip into her body...that's because the pose used was designed around the male skeleton base parameters). The differences are defined as 'morph parameters', or simply 'morphs'. They are more or less (actually more) the exact same system we use to customize our facial features in EQ2 Character Creation.

The beautiful thing about this setup is that clothing for one figure (Michael 3 for example), can be adjusted to fit any other figure based on the same mesh (Victoria 3, for example). Poser users have access to programs that will even do most of the work for them. Once the base mesh of the clothing item is adjusted, morphs can be injected to closely match morphs that already exist in the base figure. For example, I have a chainmail tunic designed for Michael 3. With some adjustment of the initial load parameters, that tunic mesh can be scaled and tweaked to fit the base Victoria 3. I can then inject morphs that will accomodate changes to Victoria's morphs...larger bust, for instance...

Now, could this work in EQ2? Sure it could, just not with a mesh like this, it's way too high-polygon, and would require an insane system to render even a few players in a small room. However, a similar system could be utilized with a base figure of lower polygon density. As you can see from just the base figures above, morphing is limited only by how far polygons can be moved without extremely distorting the mesh. Figures can be made more or less muscular, athletically built, and so on. As the head is usually the highest-polygon portion of the mesh, morphs can be used to create elven, ogrish, kerran, or even iksar-like bases.

Now I'm not saying that SOE should pour resources into developing a unified mesh for EQ2...it's a little late in the game for that. I just wanted to give folks a reference point with some visuals, in case they were curious as to what everyone else was talking about. A skeletal revamp of the existing EQ2 base figures to a unified skeletal system would certainly make a large part of this feasible in its own right.

Just my two coppers...

Actually this is exactly what they are doing, however it is a back burner project that only seems to be worked on when there is nothing else to do.As to dev statements, there is one even in THIS THREAD that says that yes they are working on it. Also devs leaving a game does not end the project otherwise Vhalen's leaving would mean that SoE is no longer developing LORE for EQ2, or that they are no longer working on Community Relations because Blackguard and Moorguard left. When people leave a company they assign a new person to work on the project. You are also aware that SoE is based in CA and we have one of the most Draconian False advertising laws on the books right? If they state that the Sarnak use the new models(which they did) it means they advertised that, and if it is untrue, then they are in deep do do as some lawyer will be able to make MILLIONS off of them.

(( The problem with this idea of a unified mesh is that EQ2 characters are not built this way.They are divided into seperate elements that are swapped out on-the-fly with replacement parts (Think of Lego-men, you remove their hair and replace it with a hat (since their hair wouldnt be visible under the had anyways).Poser works very inefficiently in that geometry that would normally be invisible under their clothes is still processed and rendered, not culled.Completely different setup for EQ2 and almost every MMO character model.   The characters are a large cluster of seperate body-part meshes all skinned to the same Skeletal Rig.If they welded all vertices together into a single unified mesh, and simply 'overlayed' clothing meshes on top, people's computers would grind to a halt because the un-seen skin underneath would still be rendered.They have to break the body up into parts for everything to run smoothly, and for specific body-parts to be swapped out for replacements.