STEALTH CHANGE ON TEST SERVER - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME IT IS A MISTAKE!

[Freliant]

Everyone in a 60 guild starts to store their status items as soon as their guild levels, so don't think you are alone in this. Those of you that said you got all your status items by adventuring, well, kudos to you, the higher tier status items will not affect your progression. YOU CAN STILL TURN THOSE IN and they will give guild status. The ones that do not, are the lower tier ones. Hence, the only ones affected at launch are the level 60 guilds that have hoarded up tons of the stuff which they bought mainly from plat selling toons, as someone else duly noted. Now plat sellers have one less venue to gain their funds... win win situation.

Like someone else also noted, you get guild xp much faster by doing city writs and crafting writs than actually getting the drops, so that is a moot point too.

[Anxi]

This change doesn't bother me in the slightest. There are far more efficient ways of leveling a guild then hording status items for turn in. I have always viewed the status items as a kind of bonus. Maybe there is a reason SoE doesn't want guilds hitting level 70 and 80 right when RoK drops. Perhaps the the rewards are going to be worth the effort? I doubt it but one can hope.

[Mheryl]

Joining in my vote here; if this was intended, it's a ridiculous change.My alt guild has members from level 1-70, both my own alts and friends.  The guild itself is level 26, so the t1 alts and t2 alts can no longer contribute their status items for guild level.Granted, they don't give a lot of guild exp so my question is, why change it at all?  You've already taken the amount of exp that you need to level the guild to a (IMO) ridiculously high number, so again, why?

[Oakleafe]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

While I think it's essentially a good idea, and with Guild Halls finally on the horizon, I understand why it's being done, I don't think that it's something that should be sneaked in without some sort of announcement.  Those players in guilds that haven't cashed them in yet would get thoroughly [Removed for Content], at least give people the opportunity to dump them before trivializing them for top-level guilds.  I've been saving mine, although it's not many, and holding off on completing HQ's because right now they would be wasted.  I guess I'll put my status items on the market, as Iluminati's already level 60. 

For all of the people screaming "OMG!  This is the worst thing SOE's ever done!!!!!" and complaining (not saying it's right or wrong, just saying) about lower level toons being marginalized by this in that they won't be able to turn them in, the amount of status items you pull in an average week's gameplay can be surpassed by doing a single city writ.  At level 66, I get solo writs for Loping Plains that are level 66 or 67 and pay out 9,000 Guild Status, and never head out with just one writ, so that's 36,000 Guild Status per run.  Even with my hours and soloing in a PvP scenario, I can get 2 runs done in a night without breaking a sweat.  I don't care who you are, there ain't no freakin' way you're finding that many amulets and idols in a week unless you're playing round the clock with an IV and a catheter.  Buying them, sure, but finding them?  The ones who will be the most affected are those that have hoarded them.  Summed up: good idea, poorly implemented if it goes through as-is.  Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong. *

* blatantly stolen line from Dennis Miller, back when he used to be funny.

I think this change, if it is to go ahead into live, is very, very, very wrong.I also think the answers saying that low-level players should do writs instead of using status loot for GSP is wrong.  Not every player likes doing adventuring writs.  Not every player wants to craft and then those that do don't all love the TS writs.  Some players never ever do HQ's because "they are too long" (their whine, not mine).  Some players just like to go out and kill stuff - the status loot is then their only way of contributing GSP.Most guilds see GSP as a sign that players are contributing to the good of the guild (hopefully not the only sign, but a sign at least).Some low-level players WILL be badly impacted by this change.You don't have to look far in these forums to find someone going on about "play styles" and how we should accept that there are a variety and let people do what they are happy doing etc.  Well, telling a "I only have an hour in the evening and I like to kill stuff" player that he has to do writs is not going to go down well.So, let's try and come up with a better solution to whatever the unstated ("stealth change" so the reason cannot have been given) problem is shall we?For example, why not make the status loot NO TRADE (as previously suggested) and don't let it drop from grey mobs?This wouldn't solve the buying up of existing status loot but would, in the future, mean that only loot with a players adventure level would be available and only available to them.

[Kaalenarc]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

While I think it's essentially a good idea, and with Guild Halls finally on the horizon, I understand why it's being done, I don't think that it's something that should be sneaked in without some sort of announcement.  Those players in guilds that haven't cashed them in yet would get thoroughly [Removed for Content], at least give people the opportunity to dump them before trivializing them for top-level guilds.  I've been saving mine, although it's not many, and holding off on completing HQ's because right now they would be wasted.  I guess I'll put my status items on the market, as Iluminati's already level 60. 

For all of the people screaming "OMG!  This is the worst thing SOE's ever done!!!!!" and complaining (not saying it's right or wrong, just saying) about lower level toons being marginalized by this in that they won't be able to turn them in, the amount of status items you pull in an average week's gameplay can be surpassed by doing a single city writ.  At level 66, I get solo writs for Loping Plains that are level 66 or 67 and pay out 9,000 Guild Status, and never head out with just one writ, so that's 36,000 Guild Status per run.  Even with my hours and soloing in a PvP scenario, I can get 2 runs done in a night without breaking a sweat.  I don't care who you are, there ain't no freakin' way you're finding that many amulets and idols in a week unless you're playing round the clock with an IV and a catheter.  Buying them, sure, but finding them?  The ones who will be the most affected are those that have hoarded them.  Summed up: good idea, poorly implemented if it goes through as-is.  Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong. *

* blatantly stolen line from Dennis Miller, back when he used to be funny.

Uh - thats 9000  and 36000 Personal  status  - not guild status - per writ run isnt it? You forgot to divide by ten. It would be 900 and 3600 respectively unless Im mistaken?

[Kaalenarc]

Dasein wrote:

Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I still would like to know why a change like this, impacting the entire guilded playerbase, is implemented without notification. Whether you agree or disagree with the new changes, the way they are doing it is awful.

To be fair, it hasn't been implemented yet, it is still on test.

To be equally fair - other changes affecting this wide a section of the playerbase are ANNOUNCED. This one wasnt.  Even if its on test - we still should be told.

[Wilin]

Err, one of the earlier posters said that the T7 items would work for guild level below 60. I didn't see anyone else react to that so I will by asking:

Does this mean that even T7 items are useless to a level 60 guild? If what the earlier poster said is true, level 60 guilds will have no items that can be turned in for status until the expansion comes out and we start killing 71+ mobs?

Edit: Here it is...

EtoilePirate wrote:

I hit up the broker on Test, because all I had were T7 items, and it's true: the T1 ones "also give guild status if your guild is under level 10," and the T7 ones "also give guild status if your guild is under level 60."  And that does eliminate one way newbies can help.

[Freliant]

Seriously... in a full day of adventuring with your friends, how many status items do you end up with in your bag??? If you get a full stack you have been out there ALOT. Now lets do that math... a stack of T1 GSP loot is: 2000 personal status (which you still gain), and 200 Guild status, which starting on LU38 will not happen anymore. That is right... 200 status. Now, lets go out and do a writ for the same level... You spend much less time, and guess what... you get the same status reward.

If you don't like to do writs, or crafting writs, or HQs, then too bad for you... you would have only contributed 200 status to your guild in an entire day of adventuring. This will cause the foucs of your day's work to shift from mindless killing, to killing with a purpose, which imo is good.

[Armawk]

Wilin wrote:

Err, one of the earlier posters said that the T7 items would work for guild level below 60. I didn't see anyone else react to that so I will by asking:

Does this mean that even T7 items are useless to a level 60 guild? If what the earlier poster said is true, level 60 guilds will have no items that can be turned in for status until the expansion comes out and we start killing 71+ mobs?

It seems to be the case that any status item currently in the game will not be useable to level past the current cap. This would be consistent with the T2 status items being

So indeed, for members of a level 60 guild, all status items they have or acquire pre-rok are useless for their guild. Even if obtained at the highest current levels of the game.

Ooops.

[Armawk]

Freliant wrote:

Seriously... in a full day of adventuring with your friends, how many status items do you end up with in your bag??? If you get a full stack you have been out there ALOT. Now lets do that math... a stack of T1 GSP loot is: 2000 personal status (which you still gain), and 200 Guild status, which starting on LU38 will not happen anymore. That is right... 200 status. Now, lets go out and do a writ for the same level... You spend much less time, and guess what... you get the same status reward.

If you don't like to do writs, or crafting writs, or HQs, then too bad for you... you would have only contributed 200 status to your guild in an entire day of adventuring. This will cause the foucs of your day's work to shift from mindless killing, to killing with a purpose, which imo is good.

Logical failure. People obtain status items from killing in the normal course of game play. Questing, exploring, killing in the normal run of the game, not remotely mindless. Writs are mindless killing if anything in the game is.

Making low level plyaer do writs instead of playing the main game is hardly improving anything. repeating writs is grinding and farming.

[liveja]

Freliant wrote:

Hence, the only ones affected at launch are the level 60 guilds that have hoarded up tons of the stuff which they bought mainly from plat selling toons, as someone else duly noted.

Soooooo, if my level 60 guild goes out & hordes up tons of T7 status items between now & ROK, without paying a single copper penny to any plat seller, & we turn in hundreds & hundreds of them the day ROK comes out, & maybe even get a guild level from it ... you won't pitch a fit?

EDIT: OK, never mind. Apparently, T7 items won't give us status, because we're already level 60. That takes this change from merely ill-conceived, to MIND-BLOWINGLY dumb.

In any event, Freliant ... it would be a very nice thing if you would refrain from accusing guilds of which you have absolutely no knowledge, of having spent real world money to raise their guild status. In the case of my guild, you're simply wrong, so take your false accusations & stuff them in the closet where they belong.

[Krystara]

Oakleafe wrote:

For example, why not make the status loot NO TRADE (as previously suggested) and don't let it drop from grey mobs?This wouldn't solve the buying up of existing status loot but would, in the future, mean that only loot with a players adventure level would be available and only available to them.

/nods  I wouldn't be as unhappy if this was the change.  I admit that I've dropped some money on status items in the past when we were really close to a guild level - but we'd adjust accordingly.

It's just nice to have an option to not chain myself to the stove or kill the same critter over and over. City writs get old fast.  It's nice to know that I could pick up a few things just wandering around in the world and doing my favorite quests... on any of my characters.. and have it matter a little at least.

[einar4]

 I agree that this is a fairly unimaginative and disingenuous attempt to prevent something that really was never a "problem" in the first place.  It communicates to players, "You must hurry and grind up to 70 to help your guild."   That is assuming guilds will be interested in taking in lower level characters at all.

 I'm a bit surprised that the developers would be so unimaginative and egregious to think that this is a solution to anything at all, it is akin to amputating a kid's legs to keep him from playing in traffic. 

[liveja]

Freliant wrote:

If you don't like to do writs, or crafting writs, or HQs, then too bad for you... you would have only contributed 200 status to your guild in an entire day of adventuring. This will cause the foucs of your day's work to shift from mindless killing, to killing with a purpose, which imo is good.

If you think that doing writs all day is somehow not mindless killing, then I respectfully suggest you've never spent an entire day grinding writs.

Writs -- whether kill writs or craft writs -- are the very DEFINITION of mindless grind.

[Vonotar]

Freliant wrote:

Everyone in a 60 guild starts to store their status items as soon as their guild levels, so don't think you are alone in this. Those of you that said you got all your status items by adventuring, well, kudos to you, the higher tier status items will not affect your progression. YOU CAN STILL TURN THOSE IN and they will give guild status. The ones that do not, are the lower tier ones. Hence, the only ones affected at launch are the level 60 guilds that have hoarded up tons of the stuff which they bought mainly from plat selling toons, as someone else duly noted. Now plat sellers have one less venue to gain their funds... win win situation.

Like someone else also noted, you get guild xp much faster by doing city writs and crafting writs than actually getting the drops, so that is a moot point too.

No, actually they can now charge a premium for the higher level status items without having to worry that people will buy more of the lower status items at a much cheaper price.This actually HELPS farmers to sell Status Items for gold/plat which they then sell on.Make the Status Items NO-TRADE and everybody stays happy (other than those who want to buy their guild levels/farm status items for plat)

[liveja]

I'd like to also point this out: level 60 guilds are now effectively screwed out of turning in hundreds of status items when ROK comes out ... but the farther below 60 your guild is, the less you're affected.

Let's say your guild is level 20. All status items from T3-T7 will still give you guild status. You can pile them up in the hundreds between now & ROK release, & turn them all in at once.

But if you're already level 60, you're simply hosed, & it's nothing but mindless grinding of writs, & hoping for the odd T8 item you find????

Some people seem to think this is a good deal. I respectfully suggest those people aren't thinking. Please keep in mind that "guild level" has absolutely NOTHING to do with "player level". I could start a guild with my level 70 Swashy, kick everyone out of it so it's all me me me, & then buy/farm up as many status items as I can, & turn them all in, & because my LEVEL 1 guild is well below the cap, my solo guild will still climb like a rocket.

This is one of the most ill-conceived changes I've ever heard of.

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

Well...   ...while it is very uhm...   ...brave of you to slay the million Sabertooth Runts and Darkpaw Mystics that you did to get these Blackened Iron Relics, would you happen to have any of the more valuable ones?  Oh I don't know...   ...like maybe those that might be found by braving the evil Bonemire?   ...the haunting Loping Planes?   ...maybe even at least Tenebrous Tangle?~~~~((While this is a small inconvenience for a lower level player to feel like they are contributing to their guild, it isn't that bad.  The lower level player still gets the personal status as well as text that lets them know that the item they got in a lowbie zone will only help lowbie guilds.If they were to express their concerns to theiir guild that they feel bad that the items they turned in didn't help the guild, any good guild would respond with thanking them anyway, telling them that their value to the guild goes beyond merely turning in items for status, and letting them know that they can perform other tasks (adventure writs, crafting writs, HQs) to help also.Most players would understand why the items are like this given the history of guild leveling in the last expansion.SoE isn't taking away your ability to use status items to level, merely taking away your ability to use paltry low tier items to advance a level 60 guild.))

[Sapphirius]

Siltha wrote:

So to get personal status from those Items I will have to drop my guild and join a lvl 10 guild?

Well, if you guys put in a stupid change like this, give us at least a fair warining before you patch it in, so we can burn our saved items before they become worthless.

Actually, unless I'm misreading, you will still get personal status. Your guild just won't receive any.

However, whether everyone here agrees with it or disagrees with it is inconsequential. SOE will do what it wants to do regardless of how we feel about it. What I truly have a problem with is that this change was unannounced. Yes, a previous poster reminded us that it was only on test, but that doesn't change that it was still unannounced. There is a special forum for the Test Server where updates and changes are posted. This change was not listed anywhere amongst them. It truly is a "stealth" nerf, and stealth nerfs are never good. Period.

Personally...

I disagree with the change because this will hurt lower level players. (I cannot stress that enough, I feel.) I currently play on three different servers. On two of the servers, I have maxxed out characters, but on one of the servers, my highest level character is a T4 warlock in a lvl 54 guild. She does writs for about an hour maybe twice a week. (I have RL to tend to. I can't grind writs all day to earn status.) She also does every HQ that she's strong enough to do, but a few writs can easily earn more status than one HQ. That,a nd there's only a limited number of HQs that she can do. She's not high enough for the bulk of them.  The largest way she contributes status is through selling the status items she gains when she adventures. This change would effectively take out her largest and least time-consumive means of contribution to her guild.

My main's guild is sitting at the level cap, but we're a family guild who bases guild rank entirely upon contributed status to the guild, so our members are constantly earning status to move up the ranks even at level cap. We have people of all levels in our guild including some who are completely and totally new to the server, EQ2, and even MMOs in general. This change is going to hurt those people most. (It won't affect Sapphy and Noz any as the only items I've saved are the ones I've hunted myself.)

On the flip side of the coin I also understand not wanting to trivialize guild levels and that a huge bulk of money generation for plat farmers is through the broker sales of status items. A better solution would have been to flag the items as "no-trade." Why? Because say I wanted to break off from LOTT and form my own new guild for raiding or whatever. I get a bunch of friends together, and we can still power level that guild all the way to level cap by farming status items. Our guild is starting at zero, and we have scores of T7 and T8 status items in the bank that we've been holding onto. So... How is that really stopping that problem of trivializing guild levels? It's not.

Someone else already pointed out another potential problem with this proposed system. Those guilds that race to level cap at every expansion? Yeah, you think they're vicious when an x-pack just releases? Wait until they find out they have to do writs to level their guild. Regular players won't be able to get a writ in edgewise.

[Devilsbane]

Now last time I helped my guild level before we hit the cap, I remember 20k personal (2k guild) status would add maybe .25% to level 59. So unless Guild levels 61-80 takes far less experience, that would mean a guild would need like 25 players with Station Access accounts (12 characters each ) filled with nothing but t7 status items to make between Guild level 65 to 70.

If they are going to add this type of requirement to status items, then they need to change higher status items slightly. If it is a t2 status item it need this requirement. (Selling it also earners guild status if your guild equals level 10 or below 20.) Reason is I still see newer guilds exploiting the current system by turning in higher status items when their guild is a lower level. This would make the change consistent.

Okay, seriously this change on the test server is one of the worst. It reverses Guild Experience decay which required lots of high level guild members.

[Vonotar]

Part of the problem is that many guilds use the members individual 'guild status' as a way of determining their rank within the guild.  (Not our own guild I must add).So lower level players will have a method of generating status (i.e. progressing their rank) taken away from them...Meanwhile the farmers continue to sell high level status items for as much gold as they can get...Make them NO-TRADE, nobody should be able to claim 'status' for kills they did not achieve themselves.

[Freliant]

When you pick up writs, (at least when I do) I pick them up because I am going to be doing some quests or other actions in the area in question. A by-product of my adventuring is that I do a writ, so its anything BUT mind-numbing.

 And you are mistaken on how farmers work. They stake out an easy area and kill everything, mainly named if they can help it. They do not go to T7 zones because they will most likely be killed by the mobs, or trained by peaved players, hence, they will have a big chunk of their funds cut off.

And T8 items currently drop from all level 70+ mobs. Those will still give status to level 60 guilds once RoK comes out.

There is one thing they could do IMO... make it so that all status items in the game automatically give their status to the person holding them, and all future status item automatically give status to the person that loots it and their guild. And on top of this, they could make grey mobs not drop status items. That would solve the current "hoarding" problem and will still allow low level players to contribute to their high level guilds through meaningless deaths.

[ke'la]

Kaalenarc@Antonia Bayle wrote:

This is an incredibly bad idea, and once again, implemented without communication from the DEVs - they just throw in a major change without discussion or concern for the community.

 Will some guilds hoard the items? Yep. So what? Now all they will do is hoard all the T7 ones. The change effectively makes anyone under level 20 unable to contribute on a consistent basis and whats worse  - creates a ton of essentially useless loot. The first ten guild levels are relatively easy to get.  The solution is simple. Make 60-80 take a VERY long time to get. Long enough so that status items are of minimal impact.

But dont take away a new players ability to contribute to his higher ranked guild. Thats just poor thinking.

 And lastly, once again SOE proves it has not learned its lesson by not communicating with the community. Its the Star Wars Galaxies NGE fiasco all over again. That DEV team went down this path. Now EQ2 is on the same course.

Think Im overreacting? Note the change in forums policy, no more guild recruiting threads allowed. Discussed with the community? Nope.  Stealth changes to loot drops? Check. Its the same show all over again. Here's a hint DEV team : If you think your decision is ultimately going to prove unpopular with the community, instead of sneaking it in, TALK TO THE COMMUNITY ABOUT IT.

 Maybe its an error , maybe its some kind of glitch. But frankly, not having it announced as a change and giving the community a chance to discuss it WITH the dev team, is simply poor customer service.

I love this game, I really do. And overall its doing some great things. But changes like this, especially when they are put in without notice, are just terrible.

Ok now your going over board, not telling the community that 85% of the classes are going away and its changing from an RPG style game into an FPS style game is completly differant, then ONE DEV forgetting to tell the person that logs the updates(for placement into the notes) that they made a minor change to the writ iteams, or more likly that the minor change was done.

Like others have said, you really should not be able to Farm lvl 60 creatures to level a lvl 70 guild. I personally think this is a good change that is long over due. Should there have been something in the update notes? Yes. Are the devs currently working 18hr days and trying to do 10 things at once, wich could lead to making mistakes like not telling the Update Logger that a change went in? YES.

[Terron]

Kalyai wrote:

Currently, even with a level 60 guild.. .our members turn in their status loot for what it was intended to be used for... to GAIN STATUS so that they can buy horses, pay upkeep on houses, buy pvp gear..etc etc...

They will still be able to do all those things. Personal status isn't affected by the change, only guild status.

[Seagoat]

I'd like to add my voice to those asking for this change to be reconsidered.

I'm leader of a small guild that mostly consists of my own alts anymore, plus a few friends from outside the game.  My higher-level girls sell the loot they don't need and sometimes use the coin they received to purchase stacks of status items off the broker to help level the guild (which is now -- finally -- almost level 30).

Grinding writs isn't enough.  Selling the few status items I've collected on my own isn't enough.  Granted, I knew it wouldn't be easy being a "guild of one" after the rest of the active members headed for the hills, but being able to purchase and turn in stacks of status loot to increase my guild level by a couple of percent here and there makes me feel as if I'm actually making progress.

I don't raid -- hell, I don't even group much anymore -- and I've invested a lot of time and energy into my guild.  I don't want to feel like I'm being forced to join a larger guild because it's next to impossible for me to eventually make something of my small, quiet, perfectly acceptable guild.

The amount of status contributed per member has already been slashed once, and it's hurt small guilds.  I feel that doing this will only hurt them further.

[PublicVoid]

This change is awesome and way overdue. There should never be anything you can stockpile to trivialize a major feature of an expansion.

[Cynith]

Going out on a limb here with a wild guess... I'm betting that there is NOT going to be any T8/T9 status loot available.... Sounds to me like they are phasing status loot out of the game but going to still allow the loot that is left to be used on any pre level 60 guild to clear it from the market place.

I wonder if anyone on test has found any status loot drops from mobs or if that has dried up... (I think I might go check that out)

I think the stealth maneuver however is wrong!! Maybe they don't need to tell us "WHAT" is in store for RoK... but they should let us know "THAT" our system is changing instead of sneaking it in on test for someone to "maybe" find it...

In my opinion... If status loot disappeared completely it wouldn't be such a bad thing as long as it's across the board... Use this junk up on smaller guilds and don't let any more drop...  Maybe they have other plans for status earnings coming up in RoK that we're not aware of... *hopeful thinking*

[ke'la]

Jenesi wrote:

Freliant wrote:

This change only affects the guilds that have been hoarding thousands upon thousands of these items in hopes of auto-maxing their guild when the expansion comes out. Personally, I am happy this went into play... I can now sell the many hundreds of these things that I have saved up since my guild dinged to 60. Getting a guild level should be an accomplishment that show's your guilds dedication to doing things for the guild, NOT something that can be done just because you have the money for it.

And doing T1 collection quests and getting xp for them is a bad thing then then also? You can buy them or spend the time running around a zone collecting them to save up and insta lvl your char when RoK comes out. What is the difference? If you have the money to spend buying crap to help lvl your guild then bye all means its your money " width="15" height="15" /> If they dont want these used buy higher lvl ppl to raise guild lvl then why not just make them like the quest item crap. If you are over that tier they will just not show up for you to loot.

The XP you gain from quests GOES DOWN as you lvl, you turn in a T1 collection quest and you might as well not be getting any XP. In fact Status Loot iteams are the ONLY way to lvl ANYTHING in game that does not lose a sugnificant amount of "XP" once you have out lvled it.

[liveja]

PublicVoid wrote:

There should never be anything you can stockpile to trivialize a major feature of an expansion.

This change does NOTHING to prevent guilds below level 60 from stockpiling status items to trivialize a major feature of the expansion.

All it does is tell level 60 guilds, "Get back to mindless grinding!"

[Vonotar]

PublicVoid wrote:

This change is awesome and way overdue.There should never be anything you can stockpile to trivialize a major feature of an expansion.

Yeah, cos hurting every guild below level 60, just to stop level 60 guilds from stock-piling is a 'solution'.Plat sellers will increase the price of status items and make even more plat because they know that mid-level (30-40) guilds cannot use lower, cheaper status items to level.

[Freliant]

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

PublicVoid wrote:

There should never be anything you can stockpile to trivialize a major feature of an expansion.

This change does NOTHING to prevent guilds below level 60 from stockpiling status items to trivialize a major feature of the expansion.

All it does is tell level 60 guilds, "Get back to mindless grinding!"

BS. If the guild is below level 60, they are not stockpiling status item. They are turning them in.