The look of RoK...

[Nayurayne]

I like the female Iksar, not the male Iksar. The male Iksar looks like he ran face first into a brick wall and then magically shrunk his head to look out of porportion with his body.

[Kaitar]

I don't really like SOGA -OR- a lot of the original models. I use the original mainly because the SOGA females are horribly out of porportion and also because the customization is severly lacking in SOGA.

If they decided to kind of toss both out the window and come up with a "new improved" model using -some- aspects of both...but in a revamped sort of way, I'd be happy and I bet most other people would be too. I hate actually having to put in my BIO (( if you are using SOGA you are not seeing *insert character's name* the way I intend them to be seen)) and I know it irks a lot of people besides me as well, both SOGA and non-Soga users. I think this is has got to be the only game with -two- character model types and it's a bit...eh. Crazy. I hope they revamp the models and make them up-to-date with today's character model standards on other MMO's and maybe do them one better.

One thing I DON'T want to see happen is -too much- change on some of the "non human" models. I think they did a rather good job on Ratonga and Trolls for example, and Frogloks. I don't care for the female Iksar models much (way too thin, head too large for neck, arms tooth picks, bow-legged, doesn't even look like the same race) but I like the male ones -save- for the fact I wish we had body sliders. My Iksar isn't supposed to have a huge barrel chest. I also hope they make the snouts just a -little- less square, but other than that I'm very happy with my Iksar's look and would be pretty dissapointed if they changed it back to the ...in my opinion....rather bland and frankly awful looking EQ1 hunched over wall eyed lizard look.

[MissTigre]

Xentin wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

EomerFarstar wrote:

Personally I can't stand SOGA models.  The obvious Manga feel they tried to bring to EQ2 is just horrid.  SOGA models look awkward and out of proportion.

I always thought the original models gave EQ2 a much more grown up and real world feel. If I want to play a cartoon elf with floopy ears I'll re-sub my WoW account. I don't want my woodelf looking like Ken and Ryu from Street Fighter either which SOGA models currently do lol.

I'm not a huge fan of anime either, but I don't think the alternate models look very anime-ish. Unlike most Asian cartoon figures, these actually have noses. And they don't have oversized eyes etc....

Not all anime is that way, to me SOGA is very anime and very unproportional to EQ2, they look very out of place imo. Yes it is all personal opinion on these but if they are combining the two that solely means you take the personal opinion out of it, sure ill be able to make my toon along the ways of the current normal models but I will have to see the SOGA people with their SOGA accessories, I dont want to see that crap

SOGA does NOT look like true anime. You want anime? Check out Phantasy Star Universe. That's truly anime. And to say that they look out of place is absolutely ridiculous. The old models look just as unrealistic and out of place. They look like those clay-puppet type things from those old kiddie movies my grandmother used to watch. When I was playing at launch, I found the original models to be a huge turnoff. Yeah, it's my personal preference, but my choice is just as important as the people who prefer the original models. If I get stuck with the old models with the SOGA hair, I'm going to be sick. Cocytus wrote:

All you silly anime fans need to play something more cartoony :/

And all of you silly ugly-claymation lovers seriously need to go pray for Gumby-online to be released.  Seriously, why is your opinion somehow more important than the opinions of the many players who actually prefer the SOGA models? I am in no way fond of the cutsey-anime look, and to me the SOGA models do NOT look like true anime. In fact, the claymation models look hideously ugly from my perspective. I don't mind a compromise, but to say that only your opinion counts is just plain stupid. Get off your high horse already. *rolls eyes* 

[Dragowulf]

MissTigress wrote:

Cocytus wrote:

All you silly anime fans need to play something more cartoony :/

And all of you silly ugly-claymation lovers seriously need to go pray for Gumby-online to be released.  Seriously, why is your opinion somehow more important than the opinions of the many players who actually prefer the SOGA models? I am in no way fond of the cutsey-anime look, and to me the SOGA models do NOT look like true anime. In fact, the claymation models look hideously ugly from my perspective. I don't mind a compromise, but to say that only your opinion counts is just plain stupid. Get off your high horse already. *rolls eyes* 

Oh no you didn't! Leave Gumby out of this!!!! kidding. I agree with you though. drago.

[Deadrus]

I dont think the whole look of the Iksar should be changed I was mearly sugesting that they give more customiztoin optoins for the Heads of Iksars (the males mostly because i love the ways they did the female iksar). Because some people liked the way they looked in eq1 and some people liked the way they look in eq2. Sure its a differnt game but it still the same race in the same world just an alternate timeline. I was just wanting to see maybe a few differnt head optoins to posibley make the iksars look more eq1ish and some more scale patterns because we really dont have that much option right now, and it is the Kunark expantion now would be the best time to get more scale patterns.

[Guy De Alsace]

So long as SOGA is kept as an option I think it would be the best solution for everyone. I find the Japanization (real word?) of games to be annoying. I want EQ2 to stay European/Western based as much as possible, to be honest I think thats exactly what they are doing with EQ2 by giving us the choice to run eastern or run western.

I have problems when they force the anime style on us with the ridiculously sized weapons. Luckily there are only a very few examples around at the moment (Qeynos Claymore being the most laughable example). Hopefully they will continue doing a good job of balancing the two styles within the same game with RoK. Lets please not see silly oversized weapons in the expansion (prays!).

[Armawk]

Its strange.. I LOATHE stuff like the big weapons etc, anime is not even slightly the way to go for this delightfully realism based game. But to me the Soga models (with the possible exception of a couple of the monstrous races and one or two bad hairstyles) dont look anime at all. There is a stylised quality, but cliche anime or something it is not.

I think its the hair that I find intolerable on the original models though (as opposed to the faces which are merely inadequate).. the hair is blobs of plastic in the most bizarre and lurid shades, and yet the engine can do SO much better, as we see with the superior hair technique used on soga (i.e. hair that has at least a somewhat hairlike quality)

[Mirander_1]

Someday, someone's really going to have to provide pics of anime that resembles the Soga models, because I've yet to see one with a resemblance . Anyways, regarding the new models, how would you feel about sizable changes to the physical appearance of the characters?  I mean, aside from touching touching up the bodies and faces (especially the faces).  Personally, there are two I'd like to see happen.  First would be to give the Kerra digitigrade legs, like what the Sarnaks are apparently getting (although without the Sarnaks' hunched-over posture).  EQlive's Kerra had that leg structure, so it seems fitting.  Conversely, I'd rather like to see the Trolls assume a more hunched-over posture (but with a normal leg structure).  Trolls are supposed to be the most monstrous of the player races, and ever since the Luclin models in EQlive, it's always struck me as odd that they have perfect posture. 

[ke'la]

Foolsfolly wrote:

I really hope the clothing layer is something like what they did in Flyff. In Flyff they had a row of armor slots, and then a second row of "costume" armor slots; If a piece of armor or clothing was placed in a costume armor slot, it's stats would have no effect on your character but that clothing model would show in place of whatever is equipped in the normal armor slot. That way you could either let you normally equipped armor show, or wear whatever costume you wanted without giving up any stats.

From what I understand that is the plan

[Kaitar]

Actually the Iksar NOW and the Iksar from way back in EQ1 aren't quite the -same- race if I remember correctly from something I either read or heard. I'm not sure if it was straight form the mouth of a dev but I've heard it more than once so I'm going to assume there's -some- fact in there. Supposedly the Iksar have screwed around so much with magic (necromantic and otherwise I assume? ), and also the fact that all of Norrath has undergone great change, has "evolved" them into what they are now. They are still reptilian people but the very fact that SOE -could- have made them look like the old EQ1 and also post-Luclin expansion versions of the Iksar....not to mention the Playstation game versions (can't recall game name at the moment ) but -didn't- points to the fact that they probably -won't- bring back the Iksar EQ1 look. And , IMHO, thank god for that. They looked like fish.

Also, I don't really care for the over-sized heads on the female models. As much as the male models need to have a slightly longer snout with less of a square jaw, I like them MUCH better than the dog-face of the female version...which, actually, is far too large and heavy for their stubby little necks to be able to support. I'm a stickler about such things. If anything, I think it's the female models that need a slight reworking...the males have a few issues, but the females are physically -wrong- in many aspects and wouldn't even be able to -stand- up or hold their heads up right because they'd be too heavy. Their arms are set too high and too far back, making them appear sway backed. With their hips being off-set and their legs nearly bowed as they are...given this and the fact they are thin as rails and have almost , it appears, no muscle at all...they would have a damned hard time getting around. Not a fan of the female models. The males are ok, need a little tweaking, but for the most part one of the better models in EQ2 in my opinion in terms of actually being in porportion to themselves. The head is a little small and blunt, and the chest a bit too "thick" but their limbs, height, mass, etc all seems to "fit".

[Zabjade]

More then one developer has expressed an interest in this take on the female iksar and ther Frilliks.

[Dreyco]

Everyone who is crying foul about SOGA and Non Soga needs to take a step back and have a look at the greater picture. Everyone has their preferences.  Everyone has their tastes.  Some people like one model, some people like another.  That is why they offer both to their customers. But in the grand scheme of things, it's inefficient.  They can't bring us new armor at a quick rate.  They can't release new designs without having to fit it to a massive amount of player models, SOGA and Non-SOGA.  To keep multiple sets of models would be back-peddling. It's not just the people who use SOGA who are getting something new.  The people who aren't using SOGA are getting the same.  New models.  New skeletons.  Possibly new appearances.  If you want more armor models, this is what you're going to have to live with, and i'm sure that it's not going to be as bad as a lot of folks seem to be making it out to be. Wait and see what happens.  It might be better than you think it is.  And when it's released, then you can offer some legitimate feedback over what is then offered. (And I for one am excited to see what they might look like)

[Kaitar]

While I don't doubt that artist has talent, I don't care for the style of his or her Iksar. Looks like...Jar-Jar or something :/

[Nayurayne]

I think that picture is beautiful and I love the longer frilliks for the older age idea.

[Wildmage]

Nayukhuut wrote:

I think that picture is beautiful and I love the longer frilliks for the older age idea.

I would like long hair/frills in general would be nice if they can make it look realistic

[Chay]

I don't care how efficient it is... They painted themselves in a corner back at the original launch. I crafted my characters (not toons) to look a specific way given the limited options at hand. I would be extremely upset if my characters took even a small measure of characteristics from SOGA models. I despise SOGA that much. What ever they do they need to take care not to disrupt the appearance of characters we've played for 3 years. While I don't like SOGA (can't stand it) I would think it would be wrong to force those that use those models to use something else. Again, SOE opened that Pandora's box when they brought them into the game. Unfortunately I think that design group has been disbanded or is no longer associated with SOE so it may be they have no choice but to make changes that impact the SOGA users. Frankly they are going to lose players whatever they do. If they don't make armor that is more compelling people will leave. If they don't add customizations people will leave. If they do away with SOGA people will leave. If they screw up the original models people will leave. I've pretty much lost my patience with SOE so I'm just waiting to see if they screw it up or not.

[Wildmage]

Chayna wrote:

I don't care how efficient it is... They painted themselves in a corner back at the original launch. I crafted my characters (not toons) to look a specific way given the limited options at hand. I would be extremely upset if my characters took even a small measure of characteristics from SOGA models. I despise SOGA that much. What ever they do they need to take care not to disrupt the appearance of characters we've played for 3 years. While I don't like SOGA (can't stand it) I would think it would be wrong to force those that use those models to use something else. Again, SOE opened that Pandora's box when they brought them into the game. Unfortunately I think that design group has been disbanded or is no longer associated with SOE so it may be they have no choice but to make changes that impact the SOGA users. Frankly they are going to lose players whatever they do. If they don't make armor that is more compelling people will leave. If they don't add customizations people will leave. If they do away with SOGA people will leave. If they screw up the original models people will leave. I've pretty much lost my patience with SOE so I'm just waiting to see if they screw it up or not.

Or you can simmer and realize people will complain no matter what you do and won't leave despite the whining and do whats best for the game as a whole which is probably what the devs do.

[Kaitar]

SOE is in a "darned if we do, darned if we don't" situation. They revamp the models. Some people who are so into the SOGA or non-SOGA models that they'll cry "OH MY GOD UGLY!" even if the new models are beautiful just because it isn't what they're used to.

Here's the thing. For my case, I'm more concerned about the Iksar models but even IF they make them not exactly how I like, I have 2 options. Make the best of it, and enjoy the fact that otherwise, the game has come a -long- way since launch...so they must be doing something right.... OR quit. Thing is I think they've already thrown the "worst" at us back during launch and at SOGA launch. Frankly I find BOTH models pretty damned ugly compared to what they COULD have done, but we've lived with it this long and learned to "like" it... I am sure, even if the new models are hideous (something tells me, however, most people will be pleased with them) then I'm sure most of us will learn to live with that too.

SOE has to try to please the majority. The majority of folks seem to think both SOGA and Original models are pretty behind the times and have been asking for a long while to have a lot of changes. Now that they're doing it, everyone's throwing a fit. Go figure. So we're back to that "either learn to live with it even if it isn't your ideal of beauty...or quit" just like we have been for 3 years now. And who knows, all those still clinging adamantly to either SOGA or original models might even *gasp* LIKE the new ones they come up with. Heck, I might be proved wrong (if) they revamp Iksar and other non-human models and like those as well. So long as they don't look like fish people, and so long as the human types don't look like something straight out of FFXI or WoW style and keeps with the EQ2 theme, I'll "deal" with it and maybe even enjoy it.

[Yaggaz]

shaunfletcher wrote:

I dont believe for one second they would remove the soga models.

Unless they really hate money, and want to receive a lot less of it each month, which seems unlikely.

I would love to see the end of that ugly vomit.  S.O.G.A = Seriously Overrated Garbage Artwork.

[Yaggaz]

Cocytus wrote:

It's a good idea. There's really no debate about it.

People hate soga (I loathe it), people hate the original models (I don't understand why), what's wrong with making a universal one that hopefully everyone likes?

All you silly anime fans need to play something more cartoony :/

Couldn't agree more.   First of all we get SOGA, then,  I nearly threw up when I went through Neriak and saw how cartoony and non EQ2 looking it was.  It's like the artists are being told to copy WoW pastel cartoon fest.

It's sickening, EQ2 is supposed to be high fantasy, not saturday morning cartoons with Soga models that all look like 14 year old characters from Final Fantasy games.

If the new models are childish/cartoonish/anime-ish, I swear I'll cancel my account and never come back, regardless. 

[Zarafein]

Well i gues i could live with new models even if they tend a bit towards soga, but they realy should be as customizable as the old ones.

[AbsentmindedMage]

Chayna wrote:

I don't care how efficient it is... They painted themselves in a corner back at the original launch. I crafted my characters (not toons) to look a specific way given the limited options at hand. I would be extremely upset if my characters took even a small measure of characteristics from SOGA models. I despise SOGA that much. What ever they do they need to take care not to disrupt the appearance of characters we've played for 3 years. While I don't like SOGA (can't stand it) I would think it would be wrong to force those that use those models to use something else. Again, SOE opened that Pandora's box when they brought them into the game. Unfortunately I think that design group has been disbanded or is no longer associated with SOE so it may be they have no choice but to make changes that impact the SOGA users. Frankly they are going to lose players whatever they do. If they don't make armor that is more compelling people will leave. If they don't add customizations people will leave. If they do away with SOGA people will leave. If they screw up the original models people will leave. I've pretty much lost my patience with SOE so I'm just waiting to see if they screw it up or not.

In the terms of service, it says that gameplay experience can and will change over time.  If the models are done well then I do not see why people would want to leave.    I know it is mostly preference and familiarity that makes people attach theirself to a particular model but the original models really are outdated and most are unattractive.  I do not think it would be that many players lost if it is a decent upgrade in the graphical quality of the model.  I know a lot of people complain about the alternate (soga) models but looking over guild recruitment pictures, I am struck by the fact that a lot of people use them.   I am not sure where you get the idea that the design group was disbanded.  The division that created the alternate models also made Fallen Dynasty adventure pack and I believe they contributed to Echoes of Faydwer also.  I know that the SOGA studio was responsible for the art assets in Darklight Wood and Neriak as that was said in a podcast and can also be found through a search online.

[WeatherMan]

Yaggaz wrote:

Cocytus wrote:

It's a good idea. There's really no debate about it.

People hate soga (I loathe it), people hate the original models (I don't understand why), what's wrong with making a universal one that hopefully everyone likes?

All you silly anime fans need to play something more cartoony :/

Couldn't agree more.   First of all we get SOGA, then,  I nearly threw up when I went through Neriak and saw how cartoony and non EQ2 looking it was.  It's like the artists are being told to copy WoW pastel cartoon fest.

It's sickening, EQ2 is supposed to be high fantasy, not saturday morning cartoons with Soga models that all look like 14 year old characters from Final Fantasy games.

If the new models are childish/cartoonish/anime-ish, I swear I'll cancel my account and never come back, regardless. 

That's odd...Neriak looks nothing like WoW.  A lot of the modeling is similar to what you see in Fallen Gate, and in addition, it sounds as though you are completely dismissing culture and time-divergence in styles and architecture.  Beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder.  I think SOGA halflings are miles ahead of the originals, while I believe SOGA elves are hideously disgusting.  But that is my opinion, nothing more - I will never criticize another for not agreeing with my preferences, or tell them they 'need to play something else'.  Jeez Louise. As to the new models...let's all just wait and see.  After all...how do you know you won't like it if you don't even try it?

[Gungo]

Lhangion@Innovation wrote:

Well i gues i could live with new models even if they tend a bit towards soga, but they realy should be as customizable as the old ones.

I have a feeling in the end we will have more options then either version had. I have a feeling we will keep a majority of the original models options w some of soga options. Of course the original models themselves will be tweaked where the skeletal structure causes clipping issues. That should be the case where they make 1 armour piece able to fit each race and gender without the need for tweaking each armour peice 50+ times. Humans, elfs, etc i doubt will see any major changes as that is the standard for armour. My question has always been the humanoid races, but seeing the sarnak (which is based on the new skeleton), i don't think many of the humanoid races will drastically change. Put it this way i really think the original models body will be the template of the new models. I think alot of the facial and hair and accesory choices etc will be imported from soga. I think the soga bodies will basically be eliminated. In the end it is the body that causes the armour issues not the face or hair.  By giving people more choices you give them more then we had prior.

[Echgar]

Let's simmer down with the insult tossing here folks.  In my experience on the forums, there are people very passionate about the artwork in-game and it often boils down to personal taste.  Let's let everyone have their own opinion without knocking it please.

[Cadori Seraphim]

Echgar wrote:

Let's simmer down with the insult tossing here folks.  In my experience on the forums, there are people very passionate about the artwork in-game and it often boils down to personal taste.  Let's let everyone have their own opinion without knocking it please.

What he said! ^ I personally LOVE the SOGA models and cant stand the old, so for me (and I am sure alot of others) I was very happy when this was implimented. As stated above, everyone has their own opinions and there is no point in tossing out insults.

[SNeko]

SOE would never do this, but a way to make more people happy would be to allow a one time race reroll for everyone.  That way if you don't like how your character looks with new models, you can pick a race you *do* like.

[DanaDark]

When I first heard about the skeletal revamp, I had argued it would be better to trash both models all together and create ONE model set that was truly better. I even stated so on these forums. But I was told by most that Im crazy and to go play WoW etc.

Kinda funny now... cuz seems the new word on the street is that there are going to be new models all together... although the only thing I've ever seen was a comment by a dev about "new character models" and nothing super official. (If anyone has a nice super official link of doom and all that, gimmie!)

Anyway, I like some Soga and I like some original models... however, there isn't a single model that I absolutely love. All have HORRIBLE flaws one way or another. Instead of arguing over which models are better, or arguing who should do what with their opinions... Im just gonna list what I'd like to see in these rumored new character models...

1) BLENDED skin. I dislike the claymation and bad skin quality of normal models. 2) Sliders that DO something. You can click random on Soga and have the character always look the same lol. 3) Color options that ARE the colors... not a shade over a default color. This is most noticable in the eye color selections. 4) I would love to have accessory options not limited by race. Half elves in original get piercings and in Soga they get scars... let others have them too! And gnomes have cute glasses and such... come on! 5) More animations. When I turn, I want an animation for it. And I want animations for EVERY emote >< 6) Perhaps a body composition. So slim, medium, bulky. Something so I could have a thin male or a fat chick or whatnot... really makes me happy to have some flavor in this area... although if not reasonable, I fully understand!

Thats just a few ideas I have rolling... kinda wish Sony would have Maxis make the models lol... Im a die hard sims 2 fanatic... he he. But ofcoarse half of you would die if that happened Im sure.

Anyway, I would love for this thread to go into the suggestion route instead of flame route...

[Argul]

shaunfletcher wrote:

I dont believe for one second they would remove the soga models.

Unless they really hate money, and want to receive a lot less of it each month, which seems unlikely.

I'll quit the game if I have to run around like an ugly clay animation (if they kill SOGA that is).

[Dragowulf]

Argul@Lucan DLere wrote:

shaunfletcher wrote:

I dont believe for one second they would remove the soga models.

Unless they really hate money, and want to receive a lot less of it each month, which seems unlikely.

I'll quit the game if I have to run around like an ugly clay animation (if they kill SOGA that is).

As far as I know there will be a new model, however, you will choose which head you will want displayed, be it soga or normal. drago.