Repair Costs - Page 3

Leawyn · 08-30-2006, 03:01 AM

Killerbee3000 wrote:

Pinski wrote:

Killerbee3000 wrote:
raiding never resulted me in any coin other than selling trash gear i replaced with raid loot. do i have a chance to get any trash corpse loot? no, never. do i get any single copper if anything drops noone wants? no, never.

Just what is your guild doing with that money then?

filling the guild bank and puting it to no use.

Maybe you should point them to this thread then? Maybe they haven't really thought about what to do with that money.

Xerxess · 08-30-2006, 10:28 PM

Canel wrote:

Terabethia wrote:

First of all, if you manage to make 100 plat a month while raiding... I want to join your guild! You get much higher payouts than we do!! Yes, most raid guilds have a large bank of plat. And yes, most raid guilds give their members a monthly payout, generally based on raid attendance. My guild does this, as well. But it's not even close to 100pp a month. Heck, the most I have ever gotten is about 18pp. And no... it did not cover a months worth of repairs and character maintaince.

Again... you people are missing the point. No one EVER said that that we wanted to pay the same for our repairs that treasured or legendary. I understand completely that better gear = higher repair cost. But it was NOT balanced. It is not scale accordling. If legandary costs twice as much as treasured, and treasured costs twice as much as crafted and so on... why does Fabled cost 5 time as much as legendary?? It does not scale correctly, and SoE agreed and finally changed it. We are still paying more than the legendary costs, but it's not so much more now.

We already have your so-called Risk vs. Reward. The risk is that raids take on tougher mobs and die quite a bit, expecially when you are testing new content. And it is a whole lot harder to recover from mistakes on a raid that it is in a group. The reward is the nice loot. And again, it's not like every member of the raid is even rewarded for every raid. As I said previousaly, in the last 2 months I have only actually taken 4 peices of loot, but I raid 5-6 nights a week, several hours a night. Insanely high and unbalanced repairs costs do not need to be added to our risk, unless you also provide us another reward to go with it.

Message Edited by Terabethia on 08-28-2006 01:17 PM

How true. I just don't get in hell how so many of the non raidersthat are responding to this post just say "Well-fabled should cost more". Well IT DOES. But just like said before--the scale was immesurably off the trensending cash upping per gear piece. 5 times a legendary repair cost was just not cool. I said it before an ill say it again--this has to be one of the smartest things SoE has ever done. And those who think otherwise--get a reality check

We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what?I've seen big time raid guilds sell off their excess fabled on the broker its not uncommon and that money has to be going somewhere unless its going straight back to the leader for no one else to use.Though there is nothing else to say about this issue since its going in and nothing we can do about it...

Terabethia · 08-30-2006, 11:28 PM

Xerxess wrote:

We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what?

First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night. Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends. I also never said that I am super poor. I have never had to ask anyone for money, and I can cover it. But it gets really tight and raiders are on a very tight buget.

As for where the cash goes... it goes to guild expenses. That does include paying ALL of our members a monthy payout (which as nice as it would be, it doesn't cover repair costs) and to guild maintaince. If a members needs a spell that is on the broker for some crazy amount, the guild will buy it and charge him DKP (not always the case mind you, there are rules and regulations with this). The guild does provide items to its members, as well. When KoS first launched we had a jeweler make full sets of resist jewlery for everyone and was paid by the guild bank. Those sorts of things. It has nothing to do with hording up money to be the #1 wealthiest guild. That's just silly, expecially since that number is also taking into account the amount of plat it's members have!

Message Edited by Terabethia on 08-30-2006 12:28 PM

Trynnus1 · 08-31-2006, 12:02 AM

Terabethia wrote:

Xerxess wrote:

We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what?

First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night. Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends. I also never said that I am super poor. I have never had to ask anyone for money, and I can cover it. But it gets really tight and raiders are on a very tight buget.

As for where the cash goes... it goes to guild expenses. That does include paying ALL of our members a monthy payout (which as nice as it would be, it doesn't cover repair costs) and to guild maintaince. If a members needs a spell that is on the broker for some crazy amount, the guild will buy it and charge him DKP (not always the case mind you, there are rules and regulations with this). The guild does provide items to its members, as well. When KoS first launched we had a jeweler make full sets of resist jewlery for everyone and was paid by the guild bank. Those sorts of things. It has nothing to do with hording up money to be the #1 wealthiest guild. That's just silly, expecially since that number is also taking into account the amount of plat it's members have!

Message Edited by Terabethia on 08-30-2006 12:28 PM

This statement is the point - you choose to raid only. I had the same arguement with a RLF who is a raider. You can choose not raid one night (if you really Raid 7 days a week I would be very surprised). It comes down to choices by everyone that plays. I choose not to raid because I dont like it, but I do enjoy dungeon crawling and farming for loot. On one occasion, I purchased loot rights for a legendary item from labs, I am willing to pay the current repair costs on it.

I feel this is a balance issue as less money will be coming out of the economy and staying in the hands of the end-game raiders - the toons that do need the master spells and fabled gear - there by making it tough for me to buy them off the broker if even there.

I understand your position, but call it by what is truely is: "Choice". You choose to raid only and SOE should make it cheaper for repairs bills. That is what you are say essentially.

thorvang · 08-31-2006, 01:37 AM

Sanju wrote:For everyone who has said that you categorically do not, can not and will not ever make money raiding -- you are 100% wrong. Everyone in my guild (and many other guilds worldwide) makes money raiding. At a ~95% raid attendance last month I made over 100p from raiding alone. I expect the same this month.If you're NOT making money raiding, well, then you're doing it wrong.

so, your guild is raiding to equip your server's population?

Xerxess · 08-31-2006, 02:47 AM

thorvang wrote:
Sanju wrote:For everyone who has said that you categorically do not, can not and will not ever make money raiding -- you are 100% wrong. Everyone in my guild (and many other guilds worldwide) makes money raiding. At a ~95% raid attendance last month I made over 100p from raiding alone. I expect the same this month.If you're NOT making money raiding, well, then you're doing it wrong.
so, your guild is raiding to equip your server's population?

Sure...they equip everyone by selling Fabled gear on the broker for 20pp-50pp...

greenmantle · 08-31-2006, 04:55 AM

Vorlak wrote:

Just remove the menders

brilliant love it a moment of genius. Hate repair cost , problem solved. You get to die 10 times with a piece of equipment , or 20 with legendary and that's it. Hey your armor can only be trampled so many times by a horde of dragons before the mender cant find bits between the patches to fix. No repair costs at all to worry about.

Worried about content too easy and no death penalty post 70. Problem solved, will you really die 26 times trying to find a trick to beating a named when you would blow two months work or would risk v's reward suddenly actually be a concept not a lame phrase thrown at noobs on the board.

Or costs a plat to repair, don't die just hang around Qh lagging up the zone trying to look good, oh , guess its too late for that suggestion.

Leawyn · 08-31-2006, 09:25 AM

I'm in Stasis, not Disso. And yes, I assumed you were anti-Disso, forgive me /bow (no sarcasm... really SMILEY

) And FWIW, you have no idea what Sony intends or doesn't intend. Neither do I. The fact that selling loot rights has been around since EQ1, and Sony took no pains to try to "fix" it in EQ2 (as they did fix many of the tools in EQ1 that were used to exploit and bypass content, like levitation, corpse summons and dragging corpses) leads me to believe they probably knew it was being done, and felt it was OK to do (as in, not an exploit). Again I can neither confirm nor deny that, as I'm not a dev and don't pretend to know any of them.

thorvang · 08-31-2006, 11:55 AM

funny part: it hasn't been before lu2 or 3 when they changed nearly all gear to "attunable". before this change you were free to use and trade nearly all items. some quest items had been set to attunable and i guess your newbie gear has been no trade ever since.and even with the change for every single piece of gear needed to be attuned there hasn't been one single no trade raid drop in vanilla. those came with the splitpaw adventure pack.so, what is this? to me it seems the only purpose of no trade is to not make specific items available to players that doesn't bought the according expansions.of course this makes no sense since someone without kos can't reach the levels needed to equip t7 gear...

Terabethia · 08-31-2006, 04:39 PM

Trynnus1 wrote:
This statement is the point - you choose to raid only. I had the same arguement with a RLF who is a raider. You can choose not raid one night (if you really Raid 7 days a week I would be very surprised). It comes down to choices by everyone that plays. I choose not to raid because I dont like it, but I do enjoy dungeon crawling and farming for loot. On one occasion, I purchased loot rights for a legendary item from labs, I am willing to pay the current repair costs on it.

I feel this is a balance issue as less money will be coming out of the economy and staying in the hands of the end-game raiders - the toons that do need the master spells and fabled gear - there by making it tough for me to buy them off the broker if even there.

I understand your position, but call it by what is truely is: "Choice". You choose to raid only and SOE should make it cheaper for repairs bills. That is what you are say essentially.

Gosh, barely read a word I said, huh? I raid approx. 5 nights a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. The rest of my time is spent for ME. ME to spend time OUTSIDE the game. There is more to life that EQ, ya know? However, when I am logged in, it's to raid. Yes, this is my choice, but apparently you are not in a raid guild or you would understand. If you're in a raiding guild, and you are logged in (during raid times mind you), you are there to RAID. Nothing else. I can't just tell my guild "Sorry guys, I want to go play in HoF/Nek 3/Whatever, enjoy your raid". I am in the guild to raid. It's about the same as telling my boss "Sorry, I know I am here at my desk, but I am not going to do any work, I am just going to watch this movie." It just won't fly. Yes, it's a choice I make, but there are not as many choices as you make it out to be. I can be in a hardcore raiding guild and do what I enjoy most in this game, and with that choice means that I have to use my own time to do other things.

As for money staying in the hands of raiders, well... go back and read my last posts and many others. WE ARE NOT THE RICHEST! We just are not. The raiders that have money earn it the same way as the non raiders. Only difference is, they have time to do both. A lot of people don't. We don't make money raiding, we make money farming instances like everyone else does.

People are really getting off topic here anyway. First of all, we don't even know what the new repair costs are. And second, you act like we are saying we don't want to pay anything. That's not the case. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to repair, or to pay more because I am wearing fabled gear. It's because it was not scaled correctly. I know I should pay more, and I fully expect to continue to pay more for fabled than for legendary gear. I just don't think it should be 5x more. And again... the people who matter (ie. DEVS) agreed. The only people who are here argueing are the casual players that don't raid, and the people who have tons of plat to blow. So stop being bitter, it's not like this even effects you. You will still have the same amount of cash, and you will still be able to obtain the same amount of gear. Guilds are not going to suddently stop selling loot, or loot rights I guess, because we are paying less. Nothing will change except repair costs will finally scale approperately and be far more fair.

Message Edited by Terabethia on 08-31-2006 05:41 AM

Echgar · 08-31-2006, 06:54 PM

Let's stay on topic please and avoid bringing guild drama into the discussion please. :smileyhappy:

Sanju · 08-31-2006, 07:32 PM

[Edited out comments addressing a post no longer present in this thread.]I am happy that a change that you like is being implemented. Really, I am. I do disagree that it was a very big issue. Personally, I make money hand over fist by raiding, and raiding only. 95% of the time I am online as my main, I'm raiding. 5% of the time I'm online as Angua, I'm repairing, buying arrows, checking the broker for the ONE master spell I still need, or I'm travelling to a raid zone. My sole income is from raiding.I do understand that not everyone can be in the same situation. We are a very small, but very successful raiding guild. That means less deaths (Matron notwitstanding), less arrows/poisons used (since we kill very fast), and much much more income (everyone in guild is pretty much fully Fabled, and has all of their Master spells. About 90% of the items we get from raiding are sold (either to a member's alt (yes, we sell to alts for platinum -- only mains can use dkp), on the broker, to Merchant Novak, or to another player, etc.). At the end of the month, all of the plat that we've made is distributed to the guild members (weighted by attendance). It works very well for us, but may not work as well for other guilds.An inconsequntial change for me, may be huge to someone else, so grats. Glad you're getting some relief.[EDIT for those who don't believe that it's possible to make 100p+ per month raiding. This is my plat split that I just got in the mail. The high was over 126p.]

Message Edited by Sanju on 08-31-2006 12:16 PM

Message Edited by Sanju on 09-01-2006 07:13 PM

JoarAddam · 09-01-2006, 07:30 PM

Since the non raiders have a hard time reading, I'll say this again, really big and bold

IT WILL STILL COST MORE TO REPAIR FABLED THAN TO REPAIR ANY OTHER ARMOR

We're not saying "ooh, since we're in fabled, we shouldn't have to pay any repair cost. We're also not saying that it should cost less than any other gear. we're fine with paying more for fabled than with legendary. All the Devs are doing, and I think it's right, is changing HOW MUCH MORE we have to pay.

The current rate is 4X more than a legendary piece. That's too high. The gear certainly isn't 4X better than legendary.

Barx · 09-02-2006, 09:04 AM

I really like the reduced cost of repairing fabled.It won't make a huge difference IMHO for hard-core raiders that make a lot of money. It probably won't make a huge difference for any kind of hard core raider.But where it makes a BIG difference is for raiders like me. I raid part-time with a group of folks that change (its an open raiding alliance). We do tough stuff, but yeah we're not on par with a hardcore guild, because we're not a hardcore guild (its not a guild at all...). We're just a bunch of folks who want to see things we wouldn't see otherwise, to be able to say "Yep, I was there, I killed that guy" and maybe get a little loot out of it.Since we're not so 'uber' and such, it can cost us a lot to repair. Even having only a couple of fabled pieces (3) and mostly legendary, it still costs me 20-30g for a full repair. Now thats now a whole platinum, but when you figure that I need a full repair every raid or 2, and every now and then just from regular adventuring, and I don't get any stipend or profits from the raid beyond gear, those costs start adding up quick.But now, I'll be able to have a little bit more money for other things. I'll have that extra bit of cash to purchase that Master I. No one loses with this change. Sure, a money-sink just got smaller. But to the folks with *massive* (I'm talking hundreds of platinum) amounts of wealth, it's not going to make a difference -- they can still spend or save however they want. But us folks who get a couple fabled pieces, us folks that only play casually but still want to see the endgame, we get a break.

JoarAddam · 09-02-2006, 04:47 PM

yay for all the weapon and shield switches and resist gear!... thank god i didn't go into backup

Margen · 09-04-2006, 05:57 AM

I really have no idea why some people are complaining about this.

1) fabled will still cost more to repair then other types, just not as much. My guess is it will be twice as much as legendary vs 4 times now.

2) not every raider is rich, I am a fully fabled SK with 9PP in my bank acount.

3) A tough night of raiding can produce 80 GP repair bills, raiding 5 nights a week that gets expensive.

4) Some people like farming some don't and some classes are not well suited for farming (Templers come to mind). Plus some raiders don't have the time to do massive amounts of farming.

5) While some guilds are stupidly rich, others aren't, our guild bank pays for repair kits, paying crafting cost for posions, food and potions, and helping guildies pay half the cost on masters for their characters.

6) This will not in any way hurt the non-raiding community ... they can still do their part of the game and have fun doing it, while us raiders will do our part.

Some of the complaints may have a bit of validity (possibly slight bump in market prices on some items), most of the compaints are silly or some (not naming names) are just trying to start an argument because their little minds think its entertainment.

Canel · 09-04-2006, 07:48 AM

~_~

you know--This post has been going for so long--can anyone exactly say [Removed for Content] this post was started as (or why the ppl in non fabled are moaning) about the fabled repair cost lowerment?

Every night I average 50-75gold a night. Times taht by 5 nights. Thats 2.5pp + a raiding week. That leaves only two days to farm like hell (if you're not farming named) to get off mob vendor junk to sell back. I average maybe a plat a day over the weekend (2 days) and if I'm lucky I'll make just enough to cover the last weeks worth of expences. Then I have to do this process all over again for the next week. I acknoledge that selling named loot off the vendor is very effeciant tho. And those who do it do bring in alot of cash.

Thats all

Triste-Lune · 09-04-2006, 12:39 PM

i m neither for or against this change. i m poor considering the rest of my guil, i m not fully fabled (missing helm gauntlet shield belt earing 2rings) and a deathtole raid costing me about 1 plat+ (yeah we wipe a lot but we have a loto running on who deliver the finishing on MT when eye is charming him), and a regular HoS (cost me like 25~50gold depending on our luck with the 25K hits :p + gambler try every week), we dont wipe nor have much death on other instance vyemm, lyceum,crab,roost and on cotestedI never had issue paying my repairs and i m only logging to raid during the week and playing like 2 hours before raid during week end to do instance and help other on claymore and stuff, i m only lvl 9 crafter and dont get my repair bill paid by guild yet.I dont see any issue in paying the current repair cost. I understand fabled costing more to repair, but it should deteriorrate maybe at a slower (like the heritage)

Cowdenic · 09-04-2006, 08:06 PM

I am all for keeping fabled raid gear 4-5 times more expensive to repair then legendary. Please just make my gear 4 to 5 times better than said legendary. Think of it, 4 times the stats resists and mitigation. WOOT.

Terabethia · 09-05-2006, 04:51 PM

Sanju wrote:

[EDIT for those who don't believe that it's possible to make 100p+ per month raiding. This is my plat split that I just got in the mail. The high was over 126p.]

OMG, you are my Hero! Will you marry me?? My mom always told me I should marry rich... :smileywink:

Seriousaly, that is amazing and really nice. All DKP systems, and guild systems, are different. As I said, our guild does a payout as well, but it's not a full wipe of the guild bank. I guess we just have too many members to do such a thing. I certaintly manage to make due, I have never been so poor that I couldn't pay my repairs. But I am not rich, and I have to very carefully plan my spending, expecially at the start of new expansions that had level increases so I could upgrade my character. I will still have some of that concern, but maybe it won't be quite as tight now.

Findara · 09-05-2006, 07:08 PM

Selling items is an option for the majority of the guilds, but not every one can sell items. What about thoes that buy your gear. Its fabled and they would have had to spend more money to get fixed the items they baught from you. Now they will have more money to buy more items.I just wish there was people like that on pvp servers... Darn exile SMILEY

Killerbee3000 · 09-06-2006, 11:08 PM

Findarato wrote:Selling items is an option for the majority of the guilds, but not every one can sell items. What about thoes that buy your gear. Its fabled and they would have had to spend more money to get fixed the items they baught from you. Now they will have more money to buy more items.I just wish there was people like that on pvp servers... Darn exile
exaclty, not every guild sells the loot they dont need, im in a guild that would rather give one of those stupid two handers to a lvl 1 alt of someone in the guild for dkp than selling it.

JoarAddam · 09-07-2006, 07:06 PM

Yay, i got a decrease of almost 5g per death.

Canel · 09-09-2006, 01:19 AM

hehe-only 32g for a full fabled set at 0% AND backupgear at 70%!!!!!

Poetelia · 09-13-2006, 01:14 PM

Terabethia posted:

"First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night. Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends."

and also

"Gosh, barely read a word I said, huh? I raid approx. 5 nights a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. The rest of my time is spent for ME. ME to spend time OUTSIDE the game. There is more to life that EQ, ya know? However, when I am logged in, it's to raid. Yes, this is my choice, but apparently you are not in a raid guild or you would understand. If you're in a raiding guild, and you are logged in (during raid times mind you), you are there to RAID. Nothing else"

As someone said earlier, Im gonna copy these posts to use them on the next raider-vs-nonraider equipment discussion. Im gonna have the big pleasure of using the ooh soo looved raider typical quote: "You want fabled, you have to work for it. If youre casual and have a limited time online (in this case 4 hours) you cant have the same equipment as a hardcore player that devotes more time and effort (performing boring farming tasks) at the game. Raider or not." :smileyvery-happy:

And regarding the issue at hand, I am one of the people thinking that death penalties in this game are extremely mild and the repair bill penalty cant adequately substitute the sting death should have. If we dont have shards, lost exp and other drawbacks as deterrents, maybe we should think of something else.

I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured.

This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty.

My 2 cp

Poetelia Roseknight

Paladin of Qeynos

Message Edited by Poetelia on 09-13-2006 02:17 AM

Terabethia · 09-13-2006, 07:57 PM

Poetelia wrote:

I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured.

This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty.

Message Edited by Poetelia on 09-13-2006 02:17 AM

Then you would no longer have a game to play, as it would crash and burn. If you had to replace your gear every X numbers of deaths, it would get old, FAST. For everyone, including you. In fact, one night of raiding new content would probably kill your gear. No one wants to spend the months it takes to gear themselves everytime they die a few times. Not to mention quested items that you can never get again. If they took away my prismatic/godking/claymore, I would be gone forever. Do this and say goodbye to EverQuest.

There is a balance between making death mean something and making it fair for everyone. I wouldn't even have minded if they kept the fabled costs the way they were and raised the rest of them. As long as it was balanced, doesn't matter to me.

Message Edited by Terabethia on 09-13-2006 08:58 AM

Gorhauth · 09-14-2006, 12:26 AM

Poetelia wrote:

I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured.

This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty.

That would be the quickest way possible to kill off this game. We've cleared Labs every week for months and still haven't seen the Spaulders drop. You want to [Removed for Content] a tank off? Have them farm that crap from months and then take their reward away from them.Decaying stuff worked fine in SWG, but that was because it was a game devoid of content that centered around player interaction, to include crafting. There was almost nothing that dropped (only one piece that I remember was a drop that was required for a piece of armor). If it decayed, you visited a crafter and got a new piece made or repaired. That wouldn't even come close to working in this game.

Poetelia · 09-14-2006, 12:52 PM

I dont think it would be the end of the game. And obviously it wouldnt decay in a night of raiding as Terabethia seems to suggest. As is evident, Im not suggesting to keep the 10 charges equipment have now. Maybe 150 or 200 charges could be a fair number for a fabled, maybe more. That would have to be studied.

Death must have a sting for everyone. Right now, fabled equipped players (mainly all-time raiders) are the ones facing the harshest penalty. Somehow I dont think its fair keeping just a monetary penalty. And I dont think it would be the end of the game. If the charges system is well thought out, not every piece of equipment would eventually break, as upgrades with expansions could be available and people would merely be more careful about dying. In the end, its all this is about.

My proposal is not that terrible.

Poetelia Roseknight

Paladin of Qeynos

nadym · 09-14-2006, 04:59 PM

Even if you look at it in from a Roleplay point of view, the better the equipment you have the more you have to pay. Its not the same to repair a "fabled" discovery shuttle than repair a "ford" car.

cheers

Terabethia · 09-14-2006, 05:37 PM

nadym wrote:

Even if you look at it in from a Roleplay point of view, the better the equipment you have the more you have to pay. Its not the same to repair a "fabled" discovery shuttle than repair a "ford" car.

cheers

Which is still the case, we were and still are paying more than it costs for legendary. So we are all set on the repair cost arguement.

I never said I didn't agree with making a harsher death penalty, I just don't think forcing us to pay an unbalanced repair bill is the correct way to go. I didn't mind shards, and I wouldn't care if they put them back in. Heck, I didn't even really mind the corpse's from EQ1. Yes, they are nothing more than time sinks, but I didn't mind them.

Problem is, as a raider, you are GOING to die! It's a fact of your game life. It's not like we can just say "You know what, we are not going to raid this mob because we will die several times and I can't risk the gear". Guilds would never get anywhere if that were the case. It would basically kill the raiding aspect of the game for many people. Even the "Top Guilds" worldwide are not perfect. Expecially with new content, when you are testing it out and don't know what to do. You are going to die, tons of times, before you kill a mob for the first time. Are we supposed to stop testing content and wait until it's all green before we try anything out? Take the turtle dragon in the expansion pack for example. Guilds wiped to this mob hours a night over several weeks before he was killed. There are still many guilds that haven't killed it at all. If, as suggested, gear were to break after even 150-200 deaths, that's still not enough. It means that after doing just this one mob, most every guild would have lost all of it's armor. Won't work, no way, no how. Not when the only good items in the game require you to work so hard to get them.

08-30-2006, 03:01 AM	#61
Leawyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,014	Killerbee3000 wrote: Pinski wrote: Killerbee3000 wrote: raiding never resulted me in any coin other than selling trash gear i replaced with raid loot. do i have a chance to get any trash corpse loot? no, never. do i get any single copper if anything drops noone wants? no, never. Just what is your guild doing with that money then? filling the guild bank and puting it to no use. Maybe you should point them to this thread then? Maybe they haven't really thought about what to do with that money. __________________ Maelani \| Maelya \| Maerie \| Maehymn \| Maewyn \| Maekita \| Maelynne

08-30-2006, 10:28 PM	#62
Xerxess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 168	Canel wrote: Terabethia wrote: First of all, if you manage to make 100 plat a month while raiding... I want to join your guild! You get much higher payouts than we do!! Yes, most raid guilds have a large bank of plat. And yes, most raid guilds give their members a monthly payout, generally based on raid attendance. My guild does this, as well. But it's not even close to 100pp a month. Heck, the most I have ever gotten is about 18pp. And no... it did not cover a months worth of repairs and character maintaince. Again... you people are missing the point. No one EVER said that that we wanted to pay the same for our repairs that treasured or legendary. I understand completely that better gear = higher repair cost. But it was NOT balanced. It is not scale accordling. If legandary costs twice as much as treasured, and treasured costs twice as much as crafted and so on... why does Fabled cost 5 time as much as legendary?? It does not scale correctly, and SoE agreed and finally changed it. We are still paying more than the legendary costs, but it's not so much more now. We already have your so-called Risk vs. Reward. The risk is that raids take on tougher mobs and die quite a bit, expecially when you are testing new content. And it is a whole lot harder to recover from mistakes on a raid that it is in a group. The reward is the nice loot. And again, it's not like every member of the raid is even rewarded for every raid. As I said previousaly, in the last 2 months I have only actually taken 4 peices of loot, but I raid 5-6 nights a week, several hours a night. Insanely high and unbalanced repairs costs do not need to be added to our risk, unless you also provide us another reward to go with it. Message Edited by Terabethia on 08-28-2006 01:17 PM How true. I just don't get in hell how so many of the non raidersthat are responding to this post just say "Well-fabled should cost more". Well IT DOES. But just like said before--the scale was immesurably off the trensending cash upping per gear piece. 5 times a legendary repair cost was just not cool. I said it before an ill say it again--this has to be one of the smartest things SoE has ever done. And those who think otherwise--get a reality check We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what?I've seen big time raid guilds sell off their excess fabled on the broker its not uncommon and that money has to be going somewhere unless its going straight back to the leader for no one else to use.Though there is nothing else to say about this issue since its going in and nothing we can do about it... __________________ Pepi Necessary Evil 80 Swashy Max of 400 DPS!!

08-30-2006, 11:28 PM	#63
Terabethia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 256	Xerxess wrote: We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what? First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night. Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends. I also never said that I am super poor. I have never had to ask anyone for money, and I can cover it. But it gets really tight and raiders are on a very tight buget. As for where the cash goes... it goes to guild expenses. That does include paying ALL of our members a monthy payout (which as nice as it would be, it doesn't cover repair costs) and to guild maintaince. If a members needs a spell that is on the broker for some crazy amount, the guild will buy it and charge him DKP (not always the case mind you, there are rules and regulations with this). The guild does provide items to its members, as well. When KoS first launched we had a jeweler make full sets of resist jewlery for everyone and was paid by the guild bank. Those sorts of things. It has nothing to do with hording up money to be the #1 wealthiest guild. That's just silly, expecially since that number is also taking into account the amount of plat it's members have! Message Edited by Terabethia on 08-30-2006 12:28 PM

08-31-2006, 12:02 AM	#64
Trynnus1 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 362	Terabethia wrote: Xerxess wrote: We do a have a reality check!...When legendary dropped like hot cakes in KoS raiders scream it was unfair because they worked so hard for armor in DoF. Now the tables have turned where casual people are saying they can't believe the price is being dropped on the best armor in the game and you tell us to hush and this is an awesome patch. Sorry but I just can't believe raiders are so poor, Even when I raided at one point I still set aside some time to farm to gain cash back that I was loosing. Im sorry you feel farming is below you once you hit the hardcore raiding stage but also as some people point out where the money from the trash mobs going? Is it just rotting in the guild so you can make the top of the wealth chart or what? First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night. Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends. I also never said that I am super poor. I have never had to ask anyone for money, and I can cover it. But it gets really tight and raiders are on a very tight buget. As for where the cash goes... it goes to guild expenses. That does include paying ALL of our members a monthy payout (which as nice as it would be, it doesn't cover repair costs) and to guild maintaince. If a members needs a spell that is on the broker for some crazy amount, the guild will buy it and charge him DKP (not always the case mind you, there are rules and regulations with this). The guild does provide items to its members, as well. When KoS first launched we had a jeweler make full sets of resist jewlery for everyone and was paid by the guild bank. Those sorts of things. It has nothing to do with hording up money to be the #1 wealthiest guild. That's just silly, expecially since that number is also taking into account the amount of plat it's members have! Message Edited by Terabethia on 08-30-2006 12:28 PM This statement is the point - you choose to raid only. I had the same arguement with a RLF who is a raider. You can choose not raid one night (if you really Raid 7 days a week I would be very surprised). It comes down to choices by everyone that plays. I choose not to raid because I dont like it, but I do enjoy dungeon crawling and farming for loot. On one occasion, I purchased loot rights for a legendary item from labs, I am willing to pay the current repair costs on it. I feel this is a balance issue as less money will be coming out of the economy and staying in the hands of the end-game raiders - the toons that do need the master spells and fabled gear - there by making it tough for me to buy them off the broker if even there. I understand your position, but call it by what is truely is: "Choice". You choose to raid only and SOE should make it cheaper for repairs bills. That is what you are say essentially.

08-31-2006, 01:37 AM	#65
thorvang Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 862	Sanju wrote:For everyone who has said that you categorically do not, can not and will not ever make money raiding -- you are 100% wrong. Everyone in my guild (and many other guilds worldwide) makes money raiding. At a ~95% raid attendance last month I made over 100p from raiding alone. I expect the same this month.If you're NOT making money raiding, well, then you're doing it wrong. so, your guild is raiding to equip your server's population? __________________

08-31-2006, 02:47 AM	#66
Xerxess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 168	thorvang wrote: Sanju wrote:For everyone who has said that you categorically do not, can not and will not ever make money raiding -- you are 100% wrong. Everyone in my guild (and many other guilds worldwide) makes money raiding. At a ~95% raid attendance last month I made over 100p from raiding alone. I expect the same this month.If you're NOT making money raiding, well, then you're doing it wrong. so, your guild is raiding to equip your server's population? Sure...they equip everyone by selling Fabled gear on the broker for 20pp-50pp... __________________ Pepi Necessary Evil 80 Swashy Max of 400 DPS!!

08-31-2006, 04:55 AM	#67
greenmantle Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 769	Vorlak wrote: Just remove the menders brilliant love it a moment of genius. Hate repair cost , problem solved. You get to die 10 times with a piece of equipment , or 20 with legendary and that's it. Hey your armor can only be trampled so many times by a horde of dragons before the mender cant find bits between the patches to fix. No repair costs at all to worry about. Worried about content too easy and no death penalty post 70. Problem solved, will you really die 26 times trying to find a trick to beating a named when you would blow two months work or would risk v's reward suddenly actually be a concept not a lame phrase thrown at noobs on the board. Or costs a plat to repair, don't die just hang around Qh lagging up the zone trying to look good, oh , guess its too late for that suggestion.

08-31-2006, 09:25 AM	#68
Leawyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,014	I'm in Stasis, not Disso. And yes, I assumed you were anti-Disso, forgive me /bow (no sarcasm... really ) And FWIW, you have no idea what Sony intends or doesn't intend. Neither do I. The fact that selling loot rights has been around since EQ1, and Sony took no pains to try to "fix" it in EQ2 (as they did fix many of the tools in EQ1 that were used to exploit and bypass content, like levitation, corpse summons and dragging corpses) leads me to believe they probably knew it was being done, and felt it was OK to do (as in, not an exploit). Again I can neither confirm nor deny that, as I'm not a dev and don't pretend to know any of them. __________________ Maelani \| Maelya \| Maerie \| Maehymn \| Maewyn \| Maekita \| Maelynne

08-31-2006, 11:55 AM	#69
thorvang Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 862	funny part: it hasn't been before lu2 or 3 when they changed nearly all gear to "attunable". before this change you were free to use and trade nearly all items. some quest items had been set to attunable and i guess your newbie gear has been no trade ever since.and even with the change for every single piece of gear needed to be attuned there hasn't been one single no trade raid drop in vanilla. those came with the splitpaw adventure pack.so, what is this? to me it seems the only purpose of no trade is to not make specific items available to players that doesn't bought the according expansions.of course this makes no sense since someone without kos can't reach the levels needed to equip t7 gear... __________________

08-31-2006, 04:39 PM	#70
Terabethia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 256	Trynnus1 wrote: This statement is the point - you choose to raid only. I had the same arguement with a RLF who is a raider. You can choose not raid one night (if you really Raid 7 days a week I would be very surprised). It comes down to choices by everyone that plays. I choose not to raid because I dont like it, but I do enjoy dungeon crawling and farming for loot. On one occasion, I purchased loot rights for a legendary item from labs, I am willing to pay the current repair costs on it. I feel this is a balance issue as less money will be coming out of the economy and staying in the hands of the end-game raiders - the toons that do need the master spells and fabled gear - there by making it tough for me to buy them off the broker if even there. I understand your position, but call it by what is truely is: "Choice". You choose to raid only and SOE should make it cheaper for repairs bills. That is what you are say essentially. Gosh, barely read a word I said, huh? I raid approx. 5 nights a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. The rest of my time is spent for ME. ME to spend time OUTSIDE the game. There is more to life that EQ, ya know? However, when I am logged in, it's to raid. Yes, this is my choice, but apparently you are not in a raid guild or you would understand. If you're in a raiding guild, and you are logged in (during raid times mind you), you are there to RAID. Nothing else. I can't just tell my guild "Sorry guys, I want to go play in HoF/Nek 3/Whatever, enjoy your raid". I am in the guild to raid. It's about the same as telling my boss "Sorry, I know I am here at my desk, but I am not going to do any work, I am just going to watch this movie." It just won't fly. Yes, it's a choice I make, but there are not as many choices as you make it out to be. I can be in a hardcore raiding guild and do what I enjoy most in this game, and with that choice means that I have to use my own time to do other things. As for money staying in the hands of raiders, well... go back and read my last posts and many others. WE ARE NOT THE RICHEST! We just are not. The raiders that have money earn it the same way as the non raiders. Only difference is, they have time to do both. A lot of people don't. We don't make money raiding, we make money farming instances like everyone else does. People are really getting off topic here anyway. First of all, we don't even know what the new repair costs are. And second, you act like we are saying we don't want to pay anything. That's not the case. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to repair, or to pay more because I am wearing fabled gear. It's because it was not scaled correctly. I know I should pay more, and I fully expect to continue to pay more for fabled than for legendary gear. I just don't think it should be 5x more. And again... the people who matter (ie. DEVS) agreed. The only people who are here argueing are the casual players that don't raid, and the people who have tons of plat to blow. So stop being bitter, it's not like this even effects you. You will still have the same amount of cash, and you will still be able to obtain the same amount of gear. Guilds are not going to suddently stop selling loot, or loot rights I guess, because we are paying less. Nothing will change except repair costs will finally scale approperately and be far more fair. Message Edited by Terabethia on 08-31-2006 05:41 AM

08-31-2006, 06:54 PM	#71
Echgar Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,004	Let's stay on topic please and avoid bringing guild drama into the discussion please. :smileyhappy: __________________ \|\| Forum Rules \|\| TRACKERS: Community \|\| Tech \|\| Dev \|\|

08-31-2006, 07:32 PM	#72
Sanju Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 305	[Edited out comments addressing a post no longer present in this thread.]I am happy that a change that you like is being implemented. Really, I am. I do disagree that it was a very big issue. Personally, I make money hand over fist by raiding, and raiding only. 95% of the time I am online as my main, I'm raiding. 5% of the time I'm online as Angua, I'm repairing, buying arrows, checking the broker for the ONE master spell I still need, or I'm travelling to a raid zone. My sole income is from raiding.I do understand that not everyone can be in the same situation. We are a very small, but very successful raiding guild. That means less deaths (Matron notwitstanding), less arrows/poisons used (since we kill very fast), and much much more income (everyone in guild is pretty much fully Fabled, and has all of their Master spells. About 90% of the items we get from raiding are sold (either to a member's alt (yes, we sell to alts for platinum -- only mains can use dkp), on the broker, to Merchant Novak, or to another player, etc.). At the end of the month, all of the plat that we've made is distributed to the guild members (weighted by attendance). It works very well for us, but may not work as well for other guilds.An inconsequntial change for me, may be huge to someone else, so grats. Glad you're getting some relief.[EDIT for those who don't believe that it's possible to make 100p+ per month raiding. This is my plat split that I just got in the mail. The high was over 126p.] Message Edited by Sanju on 08-31-2006 12:16 PM Message Edited by Sanju on 09-01-2006 07:13 PM __________________

09-01-2006, 07:30 PM	#73
JoarAddam Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,239	Since the non raiders have a hard time reading, I'll say this again, really big and bold *IT WILL STILL COST MORE TO REPAIR FABLED THAN TO REPAIR ANY OTHER ARMOR* We're not saying "ooh, since we're in fabled, we shouldn't have to pay any repair cost. We're also not saying that it should cost less than any other gear. we're fine with paying more for fabled than with legendary. All the Devs are doing, and I think it's right, is changing *HOW MUCH MORE* we have to pay. The current rate is 4X more than a legendary piece. That's too high. The gear certainly isn't 4X better than legendary. __________________ Then Than You're Your They're There Their

09-02-2006, 09:04 AM	#74
Barx Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Mayhem Rank: Officers Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Manors of Mithaniel, New Halas Posts: 3,480	I really like the reduced cost of repairing fabled.It won't make a huge difference IMHO for hard-core raiders that make a lot of money. It probably won't make a huge difference for any kind of hard core raider.But where it makes a BIG difference is for raiders like me. I raid part-time with a group of folks that change (its an open raiding alliance). We do tough stuff, but yeah we're not on par with a hardcore guild, because we're not a hardcore guild (its not a guild at all...). We're just a bunch of folks who want to see things we wouldn't see otherwise, to be able to say "Yep, I was there, I killed that guy" and maybe get a little loot out of it.Since we're not so 'uber' and such, it can cost us a lot to repair. Even having only a couple of fabled pieces (3) and mostly legendary, it still costs me 20-30g for a full repair. Now thats now a whole platinum, but when you figure that I need a full repair every raid or 2, and every now and then just from regular adventuring, and I don't get any stipend or profits from the raid beyond gear, those costs start adding up quick.But now, I'll be able to have a little bit more money for other things. I'll have that extra bit of cash to purchase that Master I. No one loses with this change. Sure, a money-sink just got smaller. But to the folks with massive (I'm talking hundreds of platinum) amounts of wealth, it's not going to make a difference -- they can still spend or save however they want. But us folks who get a couple fabled pieces, us folks that only play casually but still want to see the endgame, we get a break.

09-02-2006, 04:47 PM	#75
JoarAddam Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,239	yay for all the weapon and shield switches and resist gear!... thank god i didn't go into backup __________________ Then Than You're Your They're There Their

09-04-2006, 05:57 AM	#76
Margen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 648	I really have no idea why some people are complaining about this. 1) fabled will still cost more to repair then other types, just not as much. My guess is it will be twice as much as legendary vs 4 times now. 2) not every raider is rich, I am a fully fabled SK with 9PP in my bank acount. 3) A tough night of raiding can produce 80 GP repair bills, raiding 5 nights a week that gets expensive. 4) Some people like farming some don't and some classes are not well suited for farming (Templers come to mind). Plus some raiders don't have the time to do massive amounts of farming. 5) While some guilds are stupidly rich, others aren't, our guild bank pays for repair kits, paying crafting cost for posions, food and potions, and helping guildies pay half the cost on masters for their characters. 6) This will not in any way hurt the non-raiding community ... they can still do their part of the game and have fun doing it, while us raiders will do our part. Some of the complaints may have a bit of validity (possibly slight bump in market prices on some items), most of the compaints are silly or some (not naming names) are just trying to start an argument because their little minds think its entertainment. __________________ Blackoath Uglyone 80 Shadow Knight of Chaos Phang 80 Swashbuckler of Chaos You EVER going to fix SKs Sony?

09-04-2006, 07:48 AM	#77
Canel Lord Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 114	~_~ you know--This post has been going for so long--can anyone exactly say [Removed for Content] this post was started as (or why the ppl in non fabled are moaning) about the fabled repair cost lowerment? Every night I average 50-75gold a night. Times taht by 5 nights. Thats 2.5pp + a raiding week. That leaves only two days to farm like hell (if you're not farming named) to get off mob vendor junk to sell back. I average maybe a plat a day over the weekend (2 days) and if I'm lucky I'll make just enough to cover the last weeks worth of expences. Then I have to do this process all over again for the next week. I acknoledge that selling named loot off the vendor is very effeciant tho. And those who do it do bring in alot of cash. Thats all

09-04-2006, 12:39 PM	#78
Triste-Lune Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 482	i m neither for or against this change. i m poor considering the rest of my guil, i m not fully fabled (missing helm gauntlet shield belt earing 2rings) and a deathtole raid costing me about 1 plat+ (yeah we wipe a lot but we have a loto running on who deliver the finishing on MT when eye is charming him), and a regular HoS (cost me like 25~50gold depending on our luck with the 25K hits :p + gambler try every week), we dont wipe nor have much death on other instance vyemm, lyceum,crab,roost and on cotestedI never had issue paying my repairs and i m only logging to raid during the week and playing like 2 hours before raid during week end to do instance and help other on claymore and stuff, i m only lvl 9 crafter and dont get my repair bill paid by guild yet.I dont see any issue in paying the current repair cost. I understand fabled costing more to repair, but it should deteriorrate maybe at a slower (like the heritage) __________________ outside of a dog reading is man's best friend. Inside it s too dark to read...

09-04-2006, 08:06 PM	#79
Cowdenic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 492	I am all for keeping fabled raid gear 4-5 times more expensive to repair then legendary. Please just make my gear 4 to 5 times better than said legendary. Think of it, 4 times the stats resists and mitigation. WOOT. __________________ 70 Templar Befallen, Xlrate 70 Warlock Befallen, Boom 23 Swashbuckler Befallen, Dreadmore 18 Troubador Befallen, Xenus I am a M.O.F.O. Misfits of the Forgotten Order

09-05-2006, 04:51 PM	#80
Terabethia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 256	Sanju wrote: [EDIT for those who don't believe that it's possible to make 100p+ per month raiding. This is my plat split that I just got in the mail. The high was over 126p.] OMG, you are my Hero! Will you marry me?? My mom always told me I should marry rich... :smileywink: Seriousaly, that is amazing and really nice. All DKP systems, and guild systems, are different. As I said, our guild does a payout as well, but it's not a full wipe of the guild bank. I guess we just have too many members to do such a thing. I certaintly manage to make due, I have never been so poor that I couldn't pay my repairs. But I am not rich, and I have to very carefully plan my spending, expecially at the start of new expansions that had level increases so I could upgrade my character. I will still have some of that concern, but maybe it won't be quite as tight now.

09-05-2006, 07:08 PM	#81
Findara General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: La Porte, Indiana Posts: 238	Selling items is an option for the majority of the guilds, but not every one can sell items. What about thoes that buy your gear. Its fabled and they would have had to spend more money to get fixed the items they baught from you. Now they will have more money to buy more items.I just wish there was people like that on pvp servers... Darn exile __________________

09-06-2006, 11:08 PM	#82
Killerbee3000 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: right behind you Posts: 1,802	Findarato wrote:Selling items is an option for the majority of the guilds, but not every one can sell items. What about thoes that buy your gear. Its fabled and they would have had to spend more money to get fixed the items they baught from you. Now they will have more money to buy more items.I just wish there was people like that on pvp servers... Darn exile exaclty, not every guild sells the loot they dont need, im in a guild that would rather give one of those stupid two handers to a lvl 1 alt of someone in the guild for dkp than selling it. __________________ Whiskers without loosing Eyes in '08!

09-07-2006, 07:06 PM	#83
JoarAddam Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,239	Yay, i got a decrease of almost 5g per death. __________________ Then Than You're Your They're There Their

09-09-2006, 01:19 AM	#84
Canel Lord Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 114	hehe-only 32g for a full fabled set at 0% AND backupgear at 70%!!!!!

09-13-2006, 01:14 PM	#85
Poetelia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 121	Terabethia posted: "First of all, I never once said that farming is "below me" now. I just simply don't have the time to do it, nor do I enjoy it. I work 9 hours a day, and raid about 4 hours a night. Add in 7 hours of sleep and that leaves me with approx. 4 hours a day to myself. This includes getting ready for work, driving to and from, eating dinner, spending time with friends/family or just getting some me time. And don't get me started on busy and hectic weekends." and also "Gosh, barely read a word I said, huh? I raid approx. 5 nights a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. The rest of my time is spent for ME. ME to spend time OUTSIDE the game. There is more to life that EQ, ya know? However, when I am logged in, it's to raid. Yes, this is my choice, but apparently you are not in a raid guild or you would understand. If you're in a raiding guild, and you are logged in (during raid times mind you), you are there to RAID. Nothing else" As someone said earlier, Im gonna copy these posts to use them on the next raider-vs-nonraider equipment discussion. Im gonna have the big pleasure of using the ooh soo looved raider typical quote: "You want fabled, you have to work for it. If youre casual and have a limited time online (in this case 4 hours) you cant have the same equipment as a hardcore player that devotes more time and effort (performing boring farming tasks) at the game. Raider or not." :smileyvery-happy: And regarding the issue at hand, I am one of the people thinking that death penalties in this game are extremely mild and the repair bill penalty cant adequately substitute the sting death should have. If we dont have shards, lost exp and other drawbacks as deterrents, maybe we should think of something else. I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured. This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty. My 2 cp Poetelia Roseknight Paladin of Qeynos Message Edited by Poetelia on 09-13-2006 02:17 AM __________________ Poetelia Roseknight Paladin of Qeynos Children of War (Runnyeye Server)

09-13-2006, 07:57 PM	#86
Terabethia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 256	Poetelia wrote: I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured. This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty. Message Edited by Poetelia on 09-13-2006 02:17 AM Then you would no longer have a game to play, as it would crash and burn. If you had to replace your gear every X numbers of deaths, it would get old, FAST. For everyone, including you. In fact, one night of raiding new content would probably kill your gear. No one wants to spend the months it takes to gear themselves everytime they die a few times. Not to mention quested items that you can never get again. If they took away my prismatic/godking/claymore, I would be gone forever. Do this and say goodbye to EverQuest. There is a balance between making death mean something and making it fair for everyone. I wouldn't even have minded if they kept the fabled costs the way they were and raised the rest of them. As long as it was balanced, doesn't matter to me. Message Edited by Terabethia on 09-13-2006 08:58 AM

09-14-2006, 12:26 AM	#87
Gorhauth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 373	Poetelia wrote: I do think we should get rid of menders and repair bills and make equipment just non-repairable, with a limited number of charges, and that just breaks when they are reached. Of course fabled should have a reasonable number of these charges, more than legendary, and legendary more than treasured. This measure would be realistic, would take back a certain death sting into the game, and would get rid of the money penalty. That would be the quickest way possible to kill off this game. We've cleared Labs every week for months and still haven't seen the Spaulders drop. You want to [Removed for Content] a tank off? Have them farm that crap from months and then take their reward away from them.Decaying stuff worked fine in SWG, but that was because it was a game devoid of content that centered around player interaction, to include crafting. There was almost nothing that dropped (only one piece that I remember was a drop that was required for a piece of armor). If it decayed, you visited a crafter and got a new piece made or repaired. That wouldn't even come close to working in this game.

09-14-2006, 12:52 PM	#88
Poetelia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 121	I dont think it would be the end of the game. And obviously it wouldnt decay in a night of raiding as Terabethia seems to suggest. As is evident, Im not suggesting to keep the 10 charges equipment have now. Maybe 150 or 200 charges could be a fair number for a fabled, maybe more. That would have to be studied. Death must have a sting for everyone. Right now, fabled equipped players (mainly all-time raiders) are the ones facing the harshest penalty. Somehow I dont think its fair keeping just a monetary penalty. And I dont think it would be the end of the game. If the charges system is well thought out, not every piece of equipment would eventually break, as upgrades with expansions could be available and people would merely be more careful about dying. In the end, its all this is about. My proposal is not that terrible. Poetelia Roseknight Paladin of Qeynos __________________ Poetelia Roseknight Paladin of Qeynos Children of War (Runnyeye Server)

09-14-2006, 04:59 PM	#89
nadym Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 166	Even if you look at it in from a Roleplay point of view, the better the equipment you have the more you have to pay. Its not the same to repair a "fabled" discovery shuttle than repair a "ford" car. cheers

09-14-2006, 05:37 PM	#90
Terabethia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 256	nadym wrote: Even if you look at it in from a Roleplay point of view, the better the equipment you have the more you have to pay. Its not the same to repair a "fabled" discovery shuttle than repair a "ford" car. cheers Which is still the case, we were and still are paying more than it costs for legendary. So we are all set on the repair cost arguement. I never said I didn't agree with making a harsher death penalty, I just don't think forcing us to pay an unbalanced repair bill is the correct way to go. I didn't mind shards, and I wouldn't care if they put them back in. Heck, I didn't even really mind the corpse's from EQ1. Yes, they are nothing more than time sinks, but I didn't mind them. Problem is, as a raider, you are GOING to die! It's a fact of your game life. It's not like we can just say "You know what, we are not going to raid this mob because we will die several times and I can't risk the gear". Guilds would never get anywhere if that were the case. It would basically kill the raiding aspect of the game for many people. Even the "Top Guilds" worldwide are not perfect. Expecially with new content, when you are testing it out and don't know what to do. You are going to die, tons of times, before you kill a mob for the first time. Are we supposed to stop testing content and wait until it's all green before we try anything out? Take the turtle dragon in the expansion pack for example. Guilds wiped to this mob hours a night over several weeks before he was killed. There are still many guilds that haven't killed it at all. If, as suggested, gear were to break after even 150-200 deaths, that's still not enough. It means that after doing just this one mob, most every guild would have lost all of it's armor. Won't work, no way, no how. Not when the only good items in the game require you to work so hard to get them.