Amazing Reflexes - the nerf is in...

[Rokjin]

---

NemaLVey wrote:

DPS is consistent damage addition to auto-attack and CA damage, regardless of weapon type and delay used. 

---

This is incorrect. DPS% Has no effect at all on CA damage. It only affects auto-attack damage.

[MagicWand]

---

sobek_eq2 wrote:

 

From the test server update notes from November 2nd,

 

- Brigand: Deceit: Fixed DPS increase to Haste increase as mentioned in the examine text.
- Brigand: Amazing Reflexes: Changed ability so that AOE avoidance is a short duration percentage trigger from combat arts.

 

SOE has chosen the worst possible solution for reducing the power of AR. There are so many things they could have done to change it from a 'get of jail free' card to 'very useful', instead they choose almost useless.

 

Message Edited by sobek_eq2 on 11-02-2006 05:22 PM

---

I do remember long ago when a certain scout class (rangers) got a huge nerf to thier dps ability, mainly the ones who were just lazy almost everyone not a ranger were so happy.  Well now it's the brigands turn.   Honestly, AR makes people lazy and just mash buttons instead of skillfully play his/her toon like the rest of the others who have to sometimes eat up AoEs from failed jousting.

[Magus_Bl]

---

MagicWand wrote:

---

sobek_eq2 wrote:

 

From the test server update notes from November 2nd,

 

- Brigand: Deceit: Fixed DPS increase to Haste increase as mentioned in the examine text.
- Brigand: Amazing Reflexes: Changed ability so that AOE avoidance is a short duration percentage trigger from combat arts.

 

SOE has chosen the worst possible solution for reducing the power of AR. There are so many things they could have done to change it from a 'get of jail free' card to 'very useful', instead they choose almost useless.

 

Message Edited by sobek_eq2 on 11-02-2006 05:22 PM

---

I do remember long ago when a certain scout class (rangers) got a huge nerf to thier dps ability, mainly the ones who were just lazy almost everyone not a ranger were so happy.  Well now it's the brigands turn.   Honestly, AR makes people lazy and just mash buttons instead of skillfully play his/her toon like the rest of the others who have to sometimes eat up AoEs from failed jousting.

---

Jousting does not = skill

 

kk thx

Message Edited by Magus_Blue on 11-04-2006 06:30 AM

[Duster_68]

[Jida]

---

SorynD wrote:

 Well now that the NDA is lifted i can talk about this. AR did need to be changed i agree, the way they did it though was not the way it should have been done & beleave me, us brig that have been on the beta server & forums have talked to the dev till we are blue in the face....but all that talking might have goten us some place. few of us have been working with the dev & were taken on some raids & asked for feedback, AR as a proc of any % is just not working so Dymus from what i understand is looking into making it into a toggle CA of sorts. how it'll work if they go this way is: AR will be like the monk invis or sprint  were it'll tick 400 power a tick abouts as long as its up, now were not going to want to have it up all the time or we'll be without power but it has to tick a lot of power to making use'n it tricky. we feel this is prob the best change & will make use'n AR fun CA with skill needed to use effectivly.

 

Saryn of FoH

Message Edited by SorynD on 11-03-2006 10:15 PM

---

I speak for myself when i say i rather it be a free mana proc than be drained for 30 seconds of guaranteed immunity.

[Whyte_Fire]

I guess 'Amazing Reflexes' isn't really.. 'Amazing'.. or.. 'Reflexive..' anymore..

[Crimson Dragon]

it's really not that big of a deal. i've already started raiding without it.

[Fijjy]

---

Whyte_Fire wrote:I guess 'Amazing Reflexes' isn't really.. 'Amazing'.. or.. 'Reflexive..' anymore..

---

[Removed for Content] can we get the name changed to "Mediocre Dodging" or something to that extent?

[Ni7r0kill32]

It is not that I am mad they changed this ability. However how it is not it is completly useless. Having to know exactly when a aoe is going to hit and then looking to see if your reflexes is up or not is a huge hassle. Completely makes this ability useless, I was in a raid the other night on beta and 3/4 the aoes hit me. The other one i just resisted, reflexes was only up for part of the time and no where close to whenthe AoE hit. Honestly this is one of my favorite abilities in teh game and now it useless. I could see making it a 45 second buff that we can cast ever 2 minutes. Still making us work but not breaking us.My suggestions for changes,2 minute recast buff that last for 30 seconds or 45 secondsA 30 percent proc chance for 25 seconds.30 second recast 10 second duration

[TerriBlades]

---

Ni7r0kill32 wrote:
It is not that I am mad they changed this ability. However how it is not it is completly useless. Having to know exactly when a aoe is going to hit and then looking to see if your reflexes is up or not is a huge hassle. Completely makes this ability useless, I was in a raid the other night on beta and 3/4 the aoes hit me. The other one i just resisted, reflexes was only up for part of the time and no where close to whenthe AoE hit. Honestly this is one of my favorite abilities in teh game and now it useless. I could see making it a 45 second buff that we can cast ever 2 minutes. Still making us work but not breaking us.

---

How is it you think that changing AR is "breaking" you? I agree that turing this skill into a proc was the worst possible thing they could have done, a short term temp buff on a 2-3m timer would have been just fine. Making it still useful, but not for every AE there is.

But anyway, I dont see how you can say that the change is going to break you. You will still be able to do your job... thats Debuffing.  This change shouldnt affect your DPS much on most of the encounters, its not going to change the overall raid DPS much either. Some of brigands best Debuffs can be on a mob for the entire lenght of the fight... perma-debuffs if you will. You'll just wanna try and avoid using Dispatch just before jousting out.

[Blixx001]

Let me get this straight.  The Brigands class defining ability, Amazing Reflexes has gone from a 100% guarantee of dodging aoe (unless direct).  To a 20% CHANCE of a short immunity to aoe on a CA proc??  Um [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?  You have reduced the effectiveness of that buff by well over 80%!!!  Bit much maybe?  Nerf, fine.  Appease the whining scouts who arent Brigands, fine.  Lower our dps, lower our usefulness in raids, fine.  But to take our most benefical self buff and completely render it useless is complete crap. Granted Amazing Reflexes is...... was powerful.  But come on SoE thats not only a nerf but a slap in face.  I have no idea what your all thinking of with this nerf.  Maybe im not seeing the whole picture.  But can you all at SoE think of some way to still make it somewhat useful?  It gets personal I guess when I have spent money every month since from the beginning of the launch.  Have all adventure packs and expansions only to find that my effectiveness as a hardcore raiding Brigand has been cut in half (at least).If you got to nerf the Brigand, at least do it so Amazing Reflexes still has some merit on a raid.

[sobek_eq2]

---

Ni7r0kill32 wrote:
It is not that I am mad they changed this ability. However how it is not it is completly useless. Having to know exactly when a aoe is going to hit and then looking to see if your reflexes is up or not is a huge hassle. Completely makes this ability useless, I was in a raid the other night on beta and 3/4 the aoes hit me. The other one i just resisted, reflexes was only up for part of the time and no where close to whenthe AoE hit. Honestly this is one of my favorite abilities in teh game and now it useless. I could see making it a 45 second buff that we can cast ever 2 minutes. Still making us work but not breaking us.

My suggestions for changes,
2 minute recast buff that last for 30 seconds or 45 seconds
A 30 percent proc chance for 25 seconds.
30 second recast 10 second duration

---

Lol, I've played with the  changes and it is almost useless, since its seldom up when you need it.

 

Message Edited by sobek_eq2 on 11-04-2006 06:21 PM

[Rahatmattata]

Just thought I'd share this. This was posted by lead designer Dymus and is the only explanation I have seen for the AR change. I don't agree with the change and hopefully I won't get in trouble for posting this because it came from the beta boards, although the NDA is lifted so I don't see why I would.

 

As a preface:  I'd prefer that any personal attacks within this thread stop now.  Those are neither constructive, nor welcome.

Changes within the spells and abilities of the game are always done for a specific reason.  The original intent for Amazing Reflexes was to give some survivability to brigands who needed to get close to a mob in order to do their damage and apply their debuffs.  Given the recent changes to the combat system the original intent of Amazing Reflexes becomes less valid.  These extemely high damage AE's that could one shot kill or nearly kill a brigand (or non tank class) have been lessened in most cases. 

This is not to say we will definitely keep Amazing Reflexes in its current form on Beta.  It may change before the expansion releases if during testing its found to be better suited in some other implementation.  I'd like to make it clear that we will continue to tune the game to adjust to the changes in the system.  The mobs and challenges have been changing too, and everything has to be taken as a complete package.

The upcoming proc changes may also help with the frequency of this ability triggering.

[Ni7r0kill32]

---

TerriBlades wrote:

---

Ni7r0kill32 wrote:It is not that I am mad they changed this ability. However how it is not it is completly useless. Having to know exactly when a aoe is going to hit and then looking to see if your reflexes is up or not is a huge hassle. Completely makes this ability useless, I was in a raid the other night on beta and 3/4 the aoes hit me. The other one i just resisted, reflexes was only up for part of the time and no where close to whenthe AoE hit. Honestly this is one of my favorite abilities in teh game and now it useless. I could see making it a 45 second buff that we can cast ever 2 minutes. Still making us work but not breaking us.

---

How is it you think that changing AR is "breaking" you? I agree that turing this skill into a proc was the worst possible thing they could have done, a short term temp buff on a 2-3m timer would have been just fine. Making it still useful, but not for every AE there is.

But anyway, I dont see how you can say that the change is going to break you. You will still be able to do your job... thats Debuffing.  This change shouldnt affect your DPS much on most of the encounters, its not going to change the overall raid DPS much either. Some of brigands best Debuffs can be on a mob for the entire lenght of the fight... perma-debuffs if you will. You'll just wanna try and avoid using Dispatch just before jousting out.

---

I am guessing you have never played a brigandl, or perhaps do not know all the spells, or maybe you are just jealous of us. Whatever fine, the truth told is you do not know what you are talking about. I belive there is a number 7. This five represents more then your number for you, it means brigands have 7 attacks that are just attacks, meaning we have to be in a fight the ENTIRE time to keep a mob completly debuffed. Even with these five attacks 1 of them is our ranged attacked and that is going to be one of our most vauluable attacks now. Also, one of these is our aoe, that really does not do a lot of damge, and a few of the other ones are being nerfed. So ya, you say we are still what were I beg to differ sir. Either you need to roll and brigand and see the spells or not troll boards.Also let me enlighten you on our debuffing there are a equal number of debuffs that are shorter duration then recast then those that are longer duration then recast. Also there is a few that are equal duration to recast. Thus meaning us not being in the whole time leaves debuffs not perma debuffed as you qouted. Along with not all of debuffs ALLWAYS land even at master on mob that are orange they do not allways land and never will. However it was not a huge deal becuase we were able to stay in the entire time and keep other debuffs up to compsensate. While what i suggested would still not solve this issue it would certainly help it with muiltiple brigand raids.And shouldn't change our DPS. Your  on crack my friend. Not gonna lie here, most of our dps is from those 7 that we would cast while not dubuffing. Meaning when we are in we are debuffing according to you and our dps will decrease by at least 20 percent. I promise you, i can bring out logs to show you how much dps our 6 atacks that are pure damage do. But thats ok, i do not need to prove myself to a troll that has no clue about the class he is talking about. Even if you have a brigand then you are the worst brigand ever to even say that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and you should have your account banned becuase you do not know what you are talking about.Also I am invited your [Removed for Content] ranger class to show me while this skill should be nerfed. And why you believe what you think. I will either bring post, data from Beta or just pure knowledge about the game to prove your wrong, becuase sir you do not know what you are talking about. I will agree this skill may be overpowered, however it was our class defining skill, similar to zerker-Rampage/DestructionSk- harm touchswahsy- Inspired daringRanger- there [Removed for Content] who caresAssasin- DecapGuardian- they have a few, ToS...Dirge- CoBTroub- Jester cap or dehate.. they have alotanyways  you get the picture.... brign it i will prove you wrong. Nerfing this ability is wrong, and shouldn't happen.

[Bhronn]

other classes coming here and saying that Losing AR wont hurt us and learn2play = priceless. its like me telling a guardian that we are taking away tower of stone and replacing it with a buff that procs 1 time on a 3% chance to learn2play. And I can go on with any class like this. Losing AR will in several ways negatively effect the brigand class and it will negatively effect the raid to a degree. Either by more power spent on healing the brig or debuffs not being on at a precise time due to the AE. Does that mean brigs are [Removed for Content]? Nope, but we are reduced in overall power more significally than the other classes with the combat changes. Due to the proc mechanic changes AR has a 3% chance to proc on a CA. Not 15, not 17 regardless what the spell definition says and heres why. AR buff is considered a proc item for all intents and purposes so it uses the spell proc mechanics. Spell procs are set at 3 X the casting time of the spell. IE if a spell take 5 secs to cast, the proc item would have a 15% chance to proc off that spell. Since AR is a buff that procs its treated as a spell and the % is based off the casting time of our CA's. 90% of our CA's are 1 sec or less casting so  3 X 1 = 3% chance to proc regardless what the definition says.Now I posted back 4 weeks ago an idea for AR and sent in several other ideas to alleviate the change.1 was to turn AR into a toggle with a power cost as long as it was up. Still get the benefit of ae immunity with the ADDED benifit of making the skill more challenging to use. Poison choices would become more important and overall this change adds to the class rather than takes away.2 was to make dispatch and rake side and behind useable. One of the best reasons for AR was so the brig wasnt trying to find a mobs back 24/7 and sure, it takes skill but after a bit, skill becomes annoyance. making those 2 best debuffs able to land from the side or from behind would take some of the pressure off a brig to land them after jousting an AE. This also keeps us from losing as much dps on the joust because we arent "looking" for a mobs back.Ive also sent in other ideas and alot have already been implemented. We have some good devs and when most of you start seeing the eof raid mobs youll understand why a 100% ae immune class just wasnt viable anymore. thats not to say I wouldnt rather just leave it alone, but ive seen 98% of the raid encounters in eof and even I can see what would happen if AR was left alone. In closing, yes the change does hurt as it stands now but in no way does it break us. Should the toggle go in, the skill will become a strategy component and actually add to the class and still accomplishs what the devs need to accomplish.innocentFoH

[TerriBlades]

---

Ni7r0kill32 wrote:

I am guessing you have never played a brigandl, or perhaps do not know all the spells, or maybe you are just jealous of us. Whatever fine, the truth told is you do not know what you are talking about. I belive there is a number 7. This five represents more then your number for you, it means brigands have 7 attacks that are just attacks, meaning we have to be in a fight the ENTIRE time to keep a mob completly debuffed. Even with these five attacks 1 of them is our ranged attacked and that is going to be one of our most vauluable attacks now. Also, one of these is our aoe, that really does not do a lot of damge, and a few of the other ones are being nerfed. So ya, you say we are still what were I beg to differ sir. Either you need to roll and brigand and see the spells or not troll boards.

Also let me enlighten you on our debuffing there are a equal number of debuffs that are shorter duration then recast then those that are longer duration then recast. Also there is a few that are equal duration to recast. Thus meaning us not being in the whole time leaves debuffs not perma debuffed as you qouted. Along with not all of debuffs ALLWAYS land even at master on mob that are orange they do not allways land and never will. However it was not a huge deal becuase we were able to stay in the entire time and keep other debuffs up to compsensate. While what i suggested would still not solve this issue it would certainly help it with muiltiple brigand raids.

And shouldn't change our DPS. Your  on crack my friend. Not gonna lie here, most of our dps is from those 7 that we would cast while not dubuffing. Meaning when we are in we are debuffing according to you and our dps will decrease by at least 20 percent. I promise you, i can bring out logs to show you how much dps our 6 atacks that are pure damage do. But thats ok, i do not need to prove myself to a troll that has no clue about the class he is talking about. Even if you have a brigand then you are the worst brigand ever to even say that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and you should have your account banned becuase you do not know what you are talking about.

Also I am invited your [Removed for Content] ranger class to show me while this skill should be nerfed. And why you believe what you think. I will either bring post, data from Beta or just pure knowledge about the game to prove your wrong, becuase sir you do not know what you are talking about. I will agree this skill may be overpowered, however it was our class defining skill, similar to
zerker-Rampage/Destruction
Sk- harm touch
swahsy- Inspired daring
Ranger- there [Removed for Content] who cares
Assasin- Decap
Guardian- they have a few, ToS...
Dirge- CoB
Troub- Jester cap or dehate.. they have alot
anyways  you get the picture.... brign it i will prove you wrong. Nerfing this ability is wrong, and shouldn't happen.

---

I hate to be the one that breaks this to you, but I do play a brigand.... and yes.. I do raid with it.... next.

As for your ranged attack, yea its [Removed for Content], but it can be used on the move... Ask a ranger how many ranged attacks they can use on the move.

Just how many mobs have AEs that you need to joust? Seriously? The AR nerf is not the gloom and doom that so many of you are making it out to be. Okay, sure, you're going to have to joust a few AEs... your DPS might suffer a bit, but its not going to be a serious as you make it out to be.

I love the last highlighted comment. You sir, truely do not have a clue what you are talking about. But as long as you are talking about class defining skills, lets talk about the brigand oh... Ummm let me think.. oh yea.. its prolly called DISPATCH! <-- pretty powerful debuff there.  Rake and Devit <-- well look at that. Whats the recast on that? 1m? How long do those stay on? 1m 12s? hmmm yeah.. lets not forget that each one of those debuffs all deal damage. Out of all the Brigand debuffs, only one doesnt deal damage. How many debuffs expire before the reuse timer is up? Disptach.... ummm... anything else? You can still keep the mob fully debuffs, thus you can still "do your job". Brigands arent taken on raids for thier uber DPS, and certainly not for the fact that they have AOE immunity.

Heres a tip for ya though.. if you do find that you'll have to joust a mob, stab & disembowel it before you joust out so your dps doesnt suffer as big a hit. The nerf to AR sucks, nerfs in general suck, and I can understand you being upset at the change. Like I said, I think turning into a proc is lame, and I would have like to have seen it more in the players control, but its not the end of the world. You'll adapt and move on.

Now Ni7r0k, Ive hear alot of crying from you, but I have not heard one thing explaining how changing AR is "breaking" you.

[PowertothePeople]

Well, guess I wont buy EoF then and look around till some other game comes along.

 

O, Brigs are taken on raids for Dispatch, and to say that they arent taken on raids because of AoE immune is just stupid. There are guilds out there that use 5 to 6 Brigands just for that reason so they can keep Dispatch up. Now yes thats wrong, dont blame the class blame teh guild that cant do anything without them.

 

I mean I could make a Ranger or Caster to become AoE immune.

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-05-2006 02:00 AM

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-05-2006 02:03 AM

[kyth]

    With plenty of ways to change AR the dev team takes the worst possible route.  They take one of the class defining skills that brigand have and make it completely useless.  Anything based on a proc takes away any shred of skill using it.  So now it is a luck factor and you get it what maybe 1-2 times a minute randomly.  So you get it for 20 seconds every minute but you have no control on it.  Honestly if they wanted to take away the always on off AR they could have made it a 20sec duration with  10 sec reuse, or something.  That way you would have to time it.  not just put it up and forget about it.If the brigand community will not put up with these changes i suggest a few things.  1)  Do not let this thread die, keep it going until stuff gets changed.2)  Last time they did this we PM'd the devs, it worked so do it again3)  Keep PM'ing the devs until it gets changed.I would suggest PM'ing lockeye, Gallenite, and Dymus about this change and how you feel about it.  Make sure you keep the comments clean.  Granted i know lockeye is going to edit this post and take out the pming part....

[kyth]

---

kythik wrote:    With plenty of ways to change AR the dev team takes the worst possible route.  They take one of the class defining skills that brigand have and make it completely useless.  Anything based on a proc takes away any shred of skill using it.  So now it is a luck factor and you get it what maybe 1-2 times a minute randomly.  So you get it for 20 seconds every minute but you have no control on it.  Honestly if they wanted to take away the always on off AR they could have made it a 20sec duration with  10 sec reuse, or something.  That way you would have to time it.  not just put it up and forget about it.If the brigand community will not put up with these changes i suggest a few things.  1)  Do not let this thread die, keep it going until stuff gets changed.2)  Last time they did this we PM'd the devs, it worked so do it again3)  Keep PM'ing the devs until it gets changed.I would suggest PM'ing lockeye, Gallenite, and Dymus about this change and how you feel about it.  Make sure you keep the comments clean.  Granted i know lockeye is going to edit this post and take out the pming part....

---

just be relentless and they will end up changing it to something useful.  That or take away AR from us and give us the swash's Hurricane!!

[LlewCadey]

oh [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] im SICK of hearing people complain how brigands are getting nerfed and will be completely usless! LEARN TO PLAY YOUR [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING CLASS!!!jousting school 101: when raid leader calls AE, back out with the rest of DPS... ZOMG YOU HAVE TO LISTEN! and MOVE?!cry me a river if you cant play without AR, its not class defining, its a crutch that helps in raids, sure its useful, but in all the KOS raid zones apart from a few encounters all are easily played without AR and still parsing as well as you did before, and for the ones where AR does help because it makes you god, just learn to actually play cohesivly with your raidnow for the noob who talks about how hard it is to find the Back of a mob on a raid, you need to either actually just pay slight attention or get a tank who can place a mob, if you have trouble finding the backside of a mob, you need to go back to refugee island, cus theres already enough [Removed for Content] in T7 who shouldnt be there, and you just add to the pile.AR nerf sucks, but deal with it, try raid some now without AR and learn a few things, youll find its not as bad as you make it out to be

[DaLurk]

Take a colt.Empty the barrel.Put a bullet in.Roll the barrel.Shove it up your mouth.Pull the trigger.Become skilled (or not).

AR = Russian Rouletteskill <> luck

[TerriBlades]

---

PowertothePeople wrote:

Well, guess I wont buy EoF then and look around till some other game comes along.

 

O, Brigs are taken on raids for Dispatch, and to say that they arent taken on raids because of AoE immune is just stupid. There are guilds out there that use 5 to 6 Brigands just for that reason so they can keep Dispatch up. Now yes thats wrong, dont blame the class blame teh guild that cant do anything without them.

 

I mean I could make a Ranger or Caster to become AoE immune.

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-05-2006 02:00 AM

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-05-2006 02:03 AM

---

Im going to assume by this second edit that you mean we can stand at 35m?

Get a clue, any ranger standing at 35m sucks! All good rangers know that to max their dps they have to be within 5m, but I wouldnt expect you to understand that. The casters I know dont stand at max cast either. You'll really have to do better then that.

[Kreat]

You guys couldnt see this coming?  But yeah getting nerfed sucks especially when you love to play the class :smileysad: Sad to see Sone deal with it this way.

[Rokjin]

I am seriously amazed at all the brigands cying they won't be able to debuff anymore.

 

FOR [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]S SAKE SWASHBUCKLERS HAVE BEEN DEBUFFING WITH HALF DURATION AND HALF REUSE TIMERS WHILE TAKING AE'S UP THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. LEARN TO [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING PLAY!

 

If I can debuff a mob once every 30 seconds for our key debuffs, you can debuff it once every minute for your key debuffs.

 

I really cannot understand.. How do you think Swashbucklers have been debuffing all this time without having AR?!

[Bhronn]

---

now for the noob who talks about how hard it is to find the Back of a mob on a raid, you need to either actually just pay slight attention or get a tank who can place a mob, if you have trouble finding the backside of a mob, you need to go back to refugee island, cus theres already enough [Removed for Content] in T7 who shouldnt be there, and you just add to the pile.

---

  Im going to assume your talking to me about the ideas of making dispatch and rake side or behind useable. No one said finding  the back of a mob was difficult. The intent of the suggestion is to be able to run in and land the debuffs without having to do much other than joust the AE. there are precious seconds on matron for the raid to run in and all do thier dps and having dispatch able to be landed from  those quadrants would be useful anyway you look at it. im glad you are fine with the AR nerf. Alot of people arent and again you may want to set the beer down for a few hours before posting because not only do you come off as angry but as someone who isnt fully in control of thier Intellegence.InnocentFires of heaven

[Ni7r0kill32]

---

TerriBlades wrote:

I hate to be the one that breaks this to you, but I do play a brigand.... and yes.. I do raid with it.... next.

Then maybe it is time for you to see how this spell is going to be used in KoS becuase right now, it worthless we can not know for sure when it will be up, or if it will still be up when aoe is going to hit. Making it a PITA to see it.

As for your ranged attack, yea its [Removed for Content], but it can be used on the move... Ask a ranger how many ranged attacks they can use on the move.

So, do you know on my berserker i can run and shoot my bow and do 4k damage every 7seconds? OO ya, thats right brigands ranged are worthless, the only good thing it is for is soloing. The attack all together may do 2k.

Just how many mobs have AEs that you need to joust? Seriously? The AR nerf is not the gloom and doom that so many of you are making it out to be. Okay, sure, you're going to have to joust a few AEs... your DPS might suffer a bit, but its not going to be a serious as you make it out to be.

Whole cares about most mobs, but mobs like Chel'Drak and Matron, ya, have fun staying in while those aoe's hit. Like to see how many you last and how long your raid takes to kill it now with no brigs in there.

I love the last highlighted comment. You sir, truely do not have a clue what you are talking about. But as long as you are talking about class defining skills, lets talk about the brigand oh... Ummm let me think.. oh yea.. its prolly called DISPATCH! <-- pretty powerful debuff there.  Rake and Devit <-- well look at that. Whats the recast on that? 1m? How long do those stay on? 1m 12s? hmmm yeah.. lets not forget that each one of those debuffs all deal damage. Out of all the Brigand debuffs, only one doesnt deal damage. How many debuffs expire before the reuse timer is up? Disptach.... ummm... anything else? You can still keep the mob fully debuffs, thus you can still "do your job". Brigands arent taken on raids for thier uber DPS, and certainly not for the fact that they have AOE immunity.

Rake has been in the game since 20 so that is nothing new and Devitalize has been in the game since lvl 60, while these are bolth valueable skills, it is no where near the value to us as AR. The debuff timers there are 2 or 3 that have same recast or lower duration then recast. Sry for that error last night, was well, lets not talk about it... just know i couldn't read correctly However alot of guilds like brigands becuase they can deal a descent amount of dps, and debuff alot bringing the total raid DPS up. However i think your failing to see how AR makes our dps steady and basically what gives us our dps. Right now I can just see that most brigands are going to be trying to make up for lost dps by spamming everything they have when they are in and thus pulling aggro...... uttt oo.... at least AR doesn't have a hate gain anymore. I am not sure what you are parsing, and what your guildmates parse, but in everysingle parse from guilds on my server usually Brigands are in the top 5 for dps. So saying they are not brought for dps is a lie as well.

Heres a tip for ya though.. if you do find that you'll have to joust a mob, stab & disembowel it before you joust out so your dps doesnt suffer as big a hit. The nerf to AR sucks, nerfs in general suck, and I can understand you being upset at the change. Like I said, I think turning into a proc is lame, and I would have like to have seen it more in the players control, but its not the end of the world. You'll adapt and move on.

I really don't care that is changing my dps, i really don't care that i have to look for a stupid icon to know if have to joust. I just a spell that i can use, i know my guildmates are going to be able to pick up dps that i am loosing someway or another.

Now Ni7r0k, Ive hear alot of crying from you, but I have not heard one thing explaining how changing AR is "breaking" you.

Its breaking me becuase it was the coolest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing ability ever! Also our dps will go down and no matter what you say, our debuffs are never going to be up the entire time now. I don't care what mob your if you have to joust it now they are going to have a aoe that will eventually land when your debuffs are expiring, and lets no forget mobs that automatically dispell debuffs.

---

[Magus_Bl]

---

Rokjin wrote:

I am seriously amazed at all the brigands cying they won't be able to debuff anymore.

 

FOR [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]S SAKE SWASHBUCKLERS HAVE BEEN DEBUFFING WITH HALF DURATION AND HALF REUSE TIMERS WHILE TAKING AE'S UP THE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. LEARN TO [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING PLAY!

 

If I can debuff a mob once every 30 seconds for our key debuffs, you can debuff it once every minute for your key debuffs.

 

I really cannot understand.. How do you think Swashbucklers have been debuffing all this time without having AR?!

---

What?  Swashbucklers debuff??

 

I think some are concerned with keeping swipe up (and yeah swashies usually have also but this has been more or less our "job" since we get to stay in and melee... or did up till now), ruckus (10 sec recast/duration), shrouded bladed (10 sec recast/duration)...

 

And I think debuffs are a side item.  The underlying issue is most likely dps... since a good swashie will easily out-dps a brigand, even while they are jousting.  Now brigand/swashie divide will be made even larger.

 

And if that happens, guess who will get hit with the nerfbat next?

 

So if I were you, I'd be all for keeping AR just as it is...

 

 

[Neue Reg]

The funny thing is, I dont know many other skills that have been under constant review and changes like AR has.  Every single expansion and sometimes between expansions, soe decides to play with this skill over and over.  Why would it be ok in T6 and T7 but now all of a sudden it is too overpowered?  I doubt a handfull of raid mobs generated this change!

 

I dont agree with this change, nor did I agree with the last change.  We made enough noise the last time they nerfed AR hard to have them adjust some things so that it was at least manageable.  But again you guys have made the skill virtually useless...just like the last time.

 

Gonna need to have an extra healer in my group just to keep me up so that debuffs can be landed.

 

And again, like I have said before...remember not only does this effect the brigands dps, it effects the entire raid's dps.  Grats to all the haters, you finally got your way.

[Magus_Bl]

---

TerriBlades wrote:

---

PowertothePeople wrote:

Well, guess I wont buy EoF then and look around till some other game comes along.

 

O, Brigs are taken on raids for Dispatch, and to say that they arent taken on raids because of AoE immune is just stupid. There are guilds out there that use 5 to 6 Brigands just for that reason so they can keep Dispatch up. Now yes thats wrong, dont blame the class blame teh guild that cant do anything without them.

 

I mean I could make a Ranger or Caster to become AoE immune.

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-05-2006 02:00 AM

Message Edited by PowertothePeople on 11-05-2006 02:03 AM

---

Im going to assume by this second edit that you mean we can stand at 35m?

Get a clue, any ranger standing at 35m sucks! All good rangers know that to max their dps they have to be within 5m, but I wouldnt expect you to understand that. The casters I know dont stand at max cast either. You'll really have to do better then that.

---

Excuse me, but to say that's the same as doing melee dps is pretty dumb.

You can hop your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] back while procing off autoattack and land your ranged CA's while waiting for AE to come out.  Brigand have 1 crappy ranged CA and must be at melee range for any others, and for autoattacking.  Completely [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing different situation.

 

[Magus_Bl]

---

Neue Regel wrote:

The funny thing is, I dont know many other skills that have been under constant review and changes like AR has.  Every single expansion and sometimes between expansions, soe decides to play with this skill over and over.  Why would it be ok in T6 and T7 but now all of a sudden it is too overpowered?  I doubt a handfull of raid mobs generated this change!

 

I dont agree with this change, nor did I agree with the last change.  We made enough noise the last time they nerfed AR hard to have them adjust some things so that it was at least manageable.  But again you guys have made the skill virtually useless...just like the last time.

 

Gonna need to have an extra healer in my group just to keep me up so that debuffs can be landed.

 

And again, like I have said before...remember not only does this effect the brigands dps, it effects the entire raid's dps.  Grats to all the haters, you finally got your way.

---

It sounds from Dymus that it's due to the mechanics change.  Since most AE's are ones we'll be able to fight through with some decent resist (or at least that's what it sounds like), AR is unnecessary there... And for the tougher mobs like Chel'drak, Matron, or equivalents in the expansion, they probably don't want these encounters being trivialized by raids dropping 5 brigands in there.  They actually want the tough encounters to be tough.. for everyone.  Part of that is dealing with AE.