Which weapons are best when 2H v DW v 1H shield - Page 2

Huna · 06-28-2005, 06:18 PM

Glad you guys brought this back up, I was going to post about which 2h I should get. Either the 1.7 delay Pristine Imbued Cedar 2h weapon, or the 2.2 delay Pristine Imbued Cedar Great Staff (2h). The 1.7 delay has like 2 agi more, but I'm going to go with the Great Staff. Just FYI, these are only selling for around 85gp or less on Neriak, and that's after the broker markup. Seems like a great deal to me.

Mjollnyr · 06-28-2005, 10:01 PM

Best weapon a berserker can use is 2h'd weapons. I'll explain the reasoning 1st Reason Proc'ing: Situation A- If you do not use combat styles a 2h weapon will proc the exact same amount as a 1h or DW weapon. Situation B- If you use combat styles the slower delay weapons (typically the 2h'ers) will proc more often, since combat styles trigger proc effects as well as regular swings Formula to figure our your actual precentage of procing is calculated as such Weapon delay / 3.0 * weapon percentage chance of procing ie. Royal Great flail, 3.8 / 3.0 * 12% (weapons own proc chance) = 15.2% Therefore the Royal Great flail has a chance to proc, the effect listed on the weapon (not counting other buffs/weapons/armor that give you chances to proc), 15.2% of the time you swing, which counts towards Combat styles and regular swings. 2nd Reason: Your weapons delay refreshs between combat styles. ie. If you use a weapon with a delay of 1.2 (a DW'er) you'll swing every 1.2s (assuming you have no haste items, typical berserker is actually swinging around every 0.5s) if you use a combat style that has a 2s cast time, your losing out on a swing with that weapon. If you use a slow weapon, again i'll use the Royal great flail. Delay 3.8s (typically with haste around 2s, even lower with berserk and decent gear) you use a combat style with a 2s cast time by the time your style goes off, your flail will have refreshed and will swing. Its not an exact science. But more or less makes sense if you consider it. Mainly the higher delay weapons proc more, which adds up to significantly more damage.

Message Edited by Mjollnyr on 06-28-2005 11:02 AM

Ol'b · 07-10-2005, 06:41 AM

2 Hander is better for one simple reason DELAY .. If your using a 2h weapon that attacks for 2.5 speed and you run 70% just bye yourself your going to attack really fast.. If you have 2 DW weps with a 1.2 speed you will STILL attack at about the same speed .. My guess is this is due to a Speed cap .. With the haste i run when using DW weps i should be attacking faster than 1 hit per second but thats not the case.

Jvaloth · 07-10-2005, 10:23 AM

50 Zerker here:

For regular exp groups I use dual wield.

Crystal Baton of Flight +15 str +15 agi +45 health +45 power 20% Haste

Pristine Imbued Fulginate Baton

The reason I like this is obvious, the 20% haste, the off hand proc, all that hitting mobs generates lots of agro. If I lose agro and put Hold the Line up it also helps to hit the mob more because very hit generates more hate.

If I decide to go 2h I use Crook or Monsoon, Sword of the Swiftwind.

When only 1 healer in group and fighting mobs that hit hard I'll sometimes take out Screaming Mace and Shiney Brass Shield to make it easier on the healer.

With 2 healers or healer/chanter I will dual wield it.

I dont have any solid numbers as far as my parsing goes using dual wield over 2 handed but whenever I used 2h I just seem to swing too slow, and have harder time maintaining agro and a harder time restablishing agro if I lose it.

If I ever get a prismatic 2 hander or Royal Flail then I'll probably use that full time! hehe

Violator · 07-10-2005, 07:27 PM

The big deal about proc'ing is going berzerk. What Sabin said is right, but what he failed to mention is that berzerkers can get the max haste in game, lowering your 2h weapon delay immensly. Procs are set to go off by delay, slower weapons proc more, faster less, cause they hit more. When you are hasted, it lowers your delay, but delay can no go lower then 1. So all the dw weapons that are 1.3-1.5, haste doesnt do much for them, they max out fast. On a slow weapon... you start swinging it alot more, and it still has the same proc time... I. E. More proc's.

Stromul · 07-11-2005, 05:37 PM

It is a misconception that you can not go lower than 1 sec on delay! The reason for this is that the log file only records seconds. If you look at you're log file closely you will see sometimes double attacks. Those are the times you are below 1 sec on delay.

Sokolov · 07-12-2005, 01:31 AM

Violatortn wrote:The big deal about proc'ing is going berzerk. What Sabin said is right, but what he failed to mention is that berzerkers can get the max haste in game, lowering your 2h weapon delay immensly. Procs are set to go off by delay, slower weapons proc more, faster less, cause they hit more. When you are hasted, it lowers your delay, but delay can no go lower then 1. So all the dw weapons that are 1.3-1.5, haste doesnt do much for them, they max out fast. On a slow weapon... you start swinging it alot more, and it still has the same proc time... I. E. More proc's.

Weapons have a fixed percentage chance per hit to proc based on the original delay of the weapon and the % proc listed on the weapon. This percentage chance does not care how much haste you currently have, nor does it care where the source of your attack is coming from. If you use a Combat Art, it doesn't mean you attacked more and so have less chance of a proc, the proc chance remains CONSTANT even if you are hasted. Likewise, even if you fire an arrow from your bow, your primary slot weapon's proc still has the same chance of proccing off THAT attack as well. The reason slower weapons proc more is because of what I said there. Without haste or additional attacks, over time, each weapon should proc the same number of times - i.e. faster weapon swings more, procs less often, but slower weapon procs more often with less swings. The TOTAL number of procs is supposed to be generally equal. However, when you add in extra attacks, the constant proc rate does not change, therefore, you end up proccing more if the delay on your weapon is higher.

Sokolov · 07-12-2005, 01:32 AM

Oh, and I think I am going to get my zerker a Staff of the Boar... he is 38.4 now... have to make a choice ><

Opt · 07-13-2005, 01:05 PM

I use the following:- DW: 2x Pristine imbued cedar fighting batons +22 str in all This is what i use most of the time as (someone correct me if im wrong) the doble chance to proc. Also looking at the speed chart on another thread with two 1.5 speed weapons a haste of around 150-160 will speed cap them at 0.6s so i am speed capped most of the time in a group or when berserk 2H: Monsoon, Sword of the swiftwind I have this just so i have some pure slashinf for mobs that are immune 1H: Pristine imbued cedar club + Shiney brass shield If i (Very rarely) want a tiny bit more avoidance But as far as preference its deffinitely DW all the way for me (Untill prismatics) i seem to kill things noticeably faster when using it plus for styles sake full black armour and two black batons suit me fine SMILEY

06-28-2005, 06:18 PM	#31
Huna Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 215	Glad you guys brought this back up, I was going to post about which 2h I should get. Either the 1.7 delay Pristine Imbued Cedar 2h weapon, or the 2.2 delay Pristine Imbued Cedar Great Staff (2h). The 1.7 delay has like 2 agi more, but I'm going to go with the Great Staff. Just FYI, these are only selling for around 85gp or less on Neriak, and that's after the broker markup. Seems like a great deal to me. __________________ Drayden 70 Berserker/ 44+Tailor The Brethren Kithicor Server

06-28-2005, 10:01 PM	#32
Mjollnyr Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 237	Best weapon a berserker can use is 2h'd weapons. I'll explain the reasoning 1st Reason Proc'ing: Situation A- If you do not use combat styles a 2h weapon will proc the exact same amount as a 1h or DW weapon. Situation B- If you use combat styles the slower delay weapons (typically the 2h'ers) will proc more often, since combat styles trigger proc effects as well as regular swings Formula to figure our your actual precentage of procing is calculated as such Weapon delay / 3.0 * weapon percentage chance of procing ie. Royal Great flail, 3.8 / 3.0 * 12% (weapons own proc chance) = 15.2% Therefore the Royal Great flail has a chance to proc, the effect listed on the weapon (not counting other buffs/weapons/armor that give you chances to proc), 15.2% of the time you swing, which counts towards Combat styles and regular swings. 2nd Reason: Your weapons delay refreshs between combat styles. ie. If you use a weapon with a delay of 1.2 (a DW'er) you'll swing every 1.2s (assuming you have no haste items, typical berserker is actually swinging around every 0.5s) if you use a combat style that has a 2s cast time, your losing out on a swing with that weapon. If you use a slow weapon, again i'll use the Royal great flail. Delay 3.8s (typically with haste around 2s, even lower with berserk and decent gear) you use a combat style with a 2s cast time by the time your style goes off, your flail will have refreshed and will swing. Its not an exact science. But more or less makes sense if you consider it. Mainly the higher delay weapons proc more, which adds up to significantly more damage. Message Edited by Mjollnyr on 06-28-2005 11:02 AM __________________ ======================== Grind -- Guardian -- Kithicor -- Chaotic Legion

07-11-2005, 05:37 PM	#36
Stromul Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 99	It is a misconception that you can not go lower than 1 sec on delay! The reason for this is that the log file only records seconds. If you look at you're log file closely you will see sometimes double attacks. Those are the times you are below 1 sec on delay. __________________ __________________________________________________ _________ Come on Devs step up to the plate! Fix the game engine and add some new armor/weapon art!!!

07-12-2005, 01:31 AM	#37
Sokolov Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,357	Violatortn wrote:The big deal about proc'ing is going berzerk. What Sabin said is right, but what he failed to mention is that berzerkers can get the max haste in game, lowering your 2h weapon delay immensly. Procs are set to go off by delay, slower weapons proc more, faster less, cause they hit more. When you are hasted, it lowers your delay, but delay can no go lower then 1. So all the dw weapons that are 1.3-1.5, haste doesnt do much for them, they max out fast. On a slow weapon... you start swinging it alot more, and it still has the same proc time... I. E. More proc's. Weapons have a fixed percentage chance per hit to proc based on the original delay of the weapon and the % proc listed on the weapon. This percentage chance does not care how much haste you currently have, nor does it care where the source of your attack is coming from. If you use a Combat Art, it doesn't mean you attacked more and so have less chance of a proc, the proc chance remains CONSTANT even if you are hasted. Likewise, even if you fire an arrow from your bow, your primary slot weapon's proc still has the same chance of proccing off THAT attack as well. The reason slower weapons proc more is because of what I said there. Without haste or additional attacks, over time, each weapon should proc the same number of times - i.e. faster weapon swings more, procs less often, but slower weapon procs more often with less swings. The TOTAL number of procs is supposed to be generally equal. However, when you add in extra attacks, the constant proc rate does not change, therefore, you end up proccing more if the delay on your weapon is higher. __________________ [] Sokolov - New Outriders [] [] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) [] Healing Guide - Version 0.5 Fate has perfect wings

07-12-2005, 01:32 AM	#38
Sokolov Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,357	Oh, and I think I am going to get my zerker a Staff of the Boar... he is 38.4 now... have to make a choice >< __________________ [] Sokolov - New Outriders [] [] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) [] Healing Guide - Version 0.5 Fate has perfect wings

07-10-2005, 06:41 AM	#33
Ol'b Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	2 Hander is better for one simple reason DELAY .. If your using a 2h weapon that attacks for 2.5 speed and you run 70% just bye yourself your going to attack really fast.. If you have 2 DW weps with a 1.2 speed you will STILL attack at about the same speed .. My guess is this is due to a Speed cap .. With the haste i run when using DW weps i should be attacking faster than 1 hit per second but thats not the case.

07-10-2005, 10:23 AM	#34
Jvaloth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 373	50 Zerker here: For regular exp groups I use dual wield. Crystal Baton of Flight +15 str +15 agi +45 health +45 power 20% Haste Pristine Imbued Fulginate Baton The reason I like this is obvious, the 20% haste, the off hand proc, all that hitting mobs generates lots of agro. If I lose agro and put Hold the Line up it also helps to hit the mob more because very hit generates more hate. If I decide to go 2h I use Crook or Monsoon, Sword of the Swiftwind. When only 1 healer in group and fighting mobs that hit hard I'll sometimes take out Screaming Mace and Shiney Brass Shield to make it easier on the healer. With 2 healers or healer/chanter I will dual wield it. I dont have any solid numbers as far as my parsing goes using dual wield over 2 handed but whenever I used 2h I just seem to swing too slow, and have harder time maintaining agro and a harder time restablishing agro if I lose it. If I ever get a prismatic 2 hander or Royal Flail then I'll probably use that full time! hehe

07-10-2005, 07:27 PM	#35
Violator General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57	The big deal about proc'ing is going berzerk. What Sabin said is right, but what he failed to mention is that berzerkers can get the max haste in game, lowering your 2h weapon delay immensly. Procs are set to go off by delay, slower weapons proc more, faster less, cause they hit more. When you are hasted, it lowers your delay, but delay can no go lower then 1. So all the dw weapons that are 1.3-1.5, haste doesnt do much for them, they max out fast. On a slow weapon... you start swinging it alot more, and it still has the same proc time... I. E. More proc's.

07-13-2005, 01:05 PM	#39
Opt Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5	I use the following:- DW: 2x Pristine imbued cedar fighting batons +22 str in all This is what i use most of the time as (someone correct me if im wrong) the doble chance to proc. Also looking at the speed chart on another thread with two 1.5 speed weapons a haste of around 150-160 will speed cap them at 0.6s so i am speed capped most of the time in a group or when berserk 2H: Monsoon, Sword of the swiftwind I have this just so i have some pure slashinf for mobs that are immune 1H: Pristine imbued cedar club + Shiney brass shield If i (Very rarely) want a tiny bit more avoidance But as far as preference its deffinitely DW all the way for me (Untill prismatics) i seem to kill things noticeably faster when using it plus for styles sake full black armour and two black batons suit me fine