Skill / Stat comparison, beta and live - Page 2

Nazo · 08-28-2005, 11:24 PM

RafaelSmith wrote:

These changes suck period for ANYONE that didnt pick Guardian to be a raid only MT.

Totally accurate analysis yes...

Gaige · 08-28-2005, 11:39 PM

RafaelSmith wrote:
These changes suck period for ANYONE that didnt pick Guardian to be a raid only MT.

Guardian tells Gage..."If you wanted to be a MT then you should have picked Guardian"

Gage tells Guardian..."Thats not what the archetype system is about...it needs to be fixed"

then comes the revamp.

Gage tells Guardian..."If you wanted to be anything besides a raid MT you should have picked something other than Guardian"..

[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]?

Ha Ha, thanks for the laugh. I mean if this goes live like this and it is true, I guess all the guards who told me if I want to MT raids to roll a guardian, would be right.

Right?

Shizzirri wrote:

Perhaps if the combat changes suck which they will most likely (unless your a fury) we can have a lucky volunteer make 5k posts proposing that guardians now suck and need to be made slightly more powerful and we can have another big combat change patch a couple months down the road.

1. Awww, thank you for saying that I alone shoulder the responsibility of getting SOE to do the revamp. I didn't realize I had that much pull.

2. But, you may want to reconsider your stance. The revamp isn't all roses and win for the monk or bruiser classes as of right now, so I guess that just goes to show...

OH WAIT.

You know what it shows? That you guys can't compare live stuff to beta, because on beta EVERYTHING is different. Is all of your DPS arts lower? Sure, but guess what, so are mine. Oh yeah, and everyone else's.

The fact is that in order to gauge how your class will be on beta you need to compare its beta arts to other classes beta arts. Your beta stats to other classes beta stats.

NOT to live.

Because if you do that I suppose you'd have a thread with people freaking out and blaming yet another thing on some guy who posts a lot.

I mean sure, I'd love to take credit for everything that happens in this game, imagine the ego I'd have then. But I assure you I'm only one player, no matter how many times I post I can't seem to generate the revenue that the other hundreds of THOUSANDS of players give to SOE.

So until then I imagine they'll take what I say with a grain of salt, if they take it at all.

Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 08-28-2005 12:45 PM

Rochir · 08-29-2005, 12:21 AM

Wow! You gaurdians got some really nice combat arts in the combat changes. Makes me wish I was a gaurdian SMILEY

Now if they could just do the same thing for us SMILEY

Pa · 08-29-2005, 07:28 AM

Rochir wrote:

Wow! You gaurdians got some really nice combat arts in the combat changes. Makes me wish I was a gaurdian

Now if they could just do the same thing for us

heh nothing changed really, most everything was lowered or nerfed in some way, not many 'changes' at all, take a look at the live versions of the skills

Gage is right though, everything was lowered, mob hp's, mob dps etc.. So everything was scaled down to compensate, which is good in a lot of ways, the rate of mudflation would have been much higher if this didnt happen.

I dont think anyone cares monks and bruisers didnt get what they want though (a very select few monks and bruisers anyway), youre crying in the wrong forum, again. None of us will care when youre not allowed on raids because youre a waste of a raid slot since theres only 1-2 tanks needed, either. The Guardians arent going to be benched, we will still be the premiere tank, it is our class, it's the only thing our class can do, its the only thing our class was made for (especially after these changes), we arent part tank part healer, we arent part tank part dps, we arent part tank part utility. Other fighters will definitely take a hit, especially the monk classes, and youre still fighting to shut yourself totally out of the only part of the game you dont dominate, its amusing to say the least.

Diversity is the key to a healthy balance, any more melding of the classes is just going to make a lot of people totally un-needed and un-wanted.

When did they remove the ignore user feature from the boards anyway? Nerfed the boards :smileysad:

Message Edited by Paen on 08-28-2005 08:42 PM

Gaige · 08-29-2005, 09:21 AM

The boards never had an ignore feature.

You know, I think its funny the only people who say hybrids rule are people playing pure classes.

If hybrids are so awesome, then why did you pick a pure class?

Whether we have 6 classes that are equal, or 5 that suck and 1 that is awesome, regardless, its basically the same thing.

I've never understood those against the archetype system when they complain about it making the game into 4 classes, when w/o it all you need is a guard/temp/lock/assassin.

4 classes.

Irony, eh?

blueduckie · 08-29-2005, 02:14 PM

I dont see where someone is saying hybrids rule. If you are talking about the post above he is clearly saying all non pure classes are gonna be weaving themselves out of roles and i 100% agree. With many debuffs taken out I would totally want group set ups for raids 1 dirge 5 assassin - 1 troubador 2 warlock 2 wiz 1 necro - 1 troubador 1 inq 1 defiler 1 paladin 1 guardian 1 warden - 1 guardian 1 conj 1 mystic 1 templar 1 fury 1 dirge

Now i havnt scanned over all but looked at alot of them. Dirge / Troubador aggro spells gonna be one of the most important skills to have, every single group could benefit. Last i heard enchanter and bard power regen wont stack so unless has been changed back f enchanters IMO bards add tons more. 3 tanks might be light on changes 4 tops will be needed tho and will most likely want 2 guard 2 paladin if anything. Conj CotH gonna be very nice to have. I havnt looked at exactly what is gonna be best mt group set up but fury seems to be spoken word. That individual buff tho last i looked was like a 30sec buff for 3-5 min recast so i dont think that is a defining skill because it isnt reliable. If another class can stack more perma mit id rather have them. Perma mit is alot better and im not sure but could have sworn that fury cast was castable out of group not sure tho.

Over all i agree with the poster above about pure classes. Debuffs stacking from multiple classes was a huge bonus to spread out. With skills not blocking eachother assassins gonna own [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] rangers will be good to. Rogues will be f'd good dps but that extra dps from predators is much nicer. As i say that is all my personal opinion is no person who will completely agree because am sure someone has more experience with beta classes than i do.

Healers all comming out pretty well IMO the mix of heals etc looks good IMO - Guardians still gonna be preferred choice 90% of time unless need a higher resist boost on a mob and that person can put his higher than guardians gonna suck to be them. Assassins Rangers gonna own and bards will basically replace enchanters if power regens dont stack the ench other buffs arnt bad and debuffs but i dont see them adding as much dps etc as another assassin.

Revamp is really pinning the need of spreading out classes. I personally liked the skill stacking issue. It was one of the few things that actually made eq2 strategic if wanting to maximize classes if you brought alot to 1 raid. i kinda thought the stacking issues shoul not only be group blockingo n raids but raid wide to make things alot more strategic and learned unison of what each person did. So much is dumbied down now in eq2. Healers can just target they mob they gotta heal off and watch tv using a sequence of heals. Nukers can just target a MA and watch tv nuking occasionally and checking to make sure he hasnt died or they havnt died. Aggro might be trickier after changes but they will settle into learning there aggro np. We already have mobs that dont train. That go invulnerable when running back.

What makes mobs challenging IMO is the room for error. These changes on the post were said to make things more challenging but it doesnt seem that way to me. I like things will be smoother but quit making things easier. Not being able to abuse defense now sweet I only do that on 2 mobs atm anyway. Drayek and MoTM rest i enjoy taking every hit i cant block and parry especially angler because you can watch mitigation work the most on him and it is fun seeing gear show its full benefit. I like mit being king over avoidance but add in some challenging factors.

From a betting mans view in the expansion hardest part of raids is gonna be aggro / group curing new type of ae's. I asusme will be many encounters with ways of adding adds that tanks have to pick up quick and keep killed. I still dont see this challenging tho i find that the most fun in the game on raids atm. Having to pick up pats on zalak is probably the most fun I have had on a raid to date that i have done. I wish each pat hit was a straight 8k hit to a raid with out possibly mitigation so if just 1 slipped by the entire raid wiped. Tanking 50 mobs at once in motm is just a bit silly in current state. Heals do all your taunting on motm. Please make eq2 more challenging and demand perfection to beat raid mobs! Understand i havnt raided a single t5 contested raid mob so i have no experience on them seem pretty challenging tho compared to others which owns would like more of that on a over all raid wise.

Anyhoo guardians arnt getting it very bad IMO will still own. Just wont be able to watch as much tv while reactives taunt for you. However the HTL changes may prove me wrong seem pretty simple. Hope they make some raids where mobs can have a huge hit like every 5 min where all long recast low timer lasting mit buffs need to be put up at once to prevent being 1 shotted. That would make shizzle fun~

So it is late and some of this is most likely pointless rambling I am indifferent on the changes i dont mind skill changes because have no fear of class losing its role or anything but i was hoping for some heavy challenges.

08-28-2005, 11:24 PM	#31
Nazo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	RafaelSmith wrote: These changes suck period for ANYONE that didnt pick Guardian to be a raid only MT. Totally accurate analysis yes...

08-28-2005, 11:39 PM	#32
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	RafaelSmith wrote: These changes suck period for ANYONE that didnt pick Guardian to be a raid only MT. Guardian tells Gage..."If you wanted to be a MT then you should have picked Guardian" Gage tells Guardian..."Thats not what the archetype system is about...it needs to be fixed" then comes the revamp. Gage tells Guardian..."If you wanted to be anything besides a raid MT you should have picked something other than Guardian".. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? Ha Ha, thanks for the laugh. I mean if this goes live like this and it is true, I guess all the guards who told me if I want to MT raids to roll a guardian, would be right. Right? Shizzirri wrote: Perhaps if the combat changes suck which they will most likely (unless your a fury) we can have a lucky volunteer make 5k posts proposing that guardians now suck and need to be made slightly more powerful and we can have another big combat change patch a couple months down the road. 1. Awww, thank you for saying that I alone shoulder the responsibility of getting SOE to do the revamp. I didn't realize I had that much pull. 2. But, you may want to reconsider your stance. The revamp isn't all roses and win for the monk or bruiser classes as of right now, so I guess that just goes to show... OH WAIT. You know what it shows? That you guys can't compare live stuff to beta, because on beta EVERYTHING is different. Is all of your DPS arts lower? Sure, but guess what, so are mine. Oh yeah, and everyone else's. The fact is that in order to gauge how your class will be on beta you need to compare its beta arts to other classes beta arts. Your beta stats to other classes beta stats. NOT to live. Because if you do that I suppose you'd have a thread with people freaking out and blaming yet another thing on some guy who posts a lot. I mean sure, I'd love to take credit for everything that happens in this game, imagine the ego I'd have then. But I assure you I'm only one player, no matter how many times I post I can't seem to generate the revenue that the other hundreds of THOUSANDS of players give to SOE. So until then I imagine they'll take what I say with a grain of salt, if they take it at all. Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 08-28-2005 12:45 PM __________________

08-29-2005, 12:21 AM	#33
Rochir Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lucan Dlere Posts: 510	Wow! You gaurdians got some really nice combat arts in the combat changes. Makes me wish I was a gaurdian Now if they could just do the same thing for us __________________ Eldatur Aduial, High-Elf (Koada'Dal) Paladin & Armorer Demolition

08-29-2005, 07:28 AM	#34
Pa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 64	Rochir wrote: Wow! You gaurdians got some really nice combat arts in the combat changes. Makes me wish I was a gaurdian Now if they could just do the same thing for us heh nothing changed really, most everything was lowered or nerfed in some way, not many 'changes' at all, take a look at the live versions of the skills Gage is right though, everything was lowered, mob hp's, mob dps etc.. So everything was scaled down to compensate, which is good in a lot of ways, the rate of mudflation would have been much higher if this didnt happen. I dont think anyone cares monks and bruisers didnt get what they want though (a very select few monks and bruisers anyway), youre crying in the wrong forum, again. None of us will care when youre not allowed on raids because youre a waste of a raid slot since theres only 1-2 tanks needed, either. The Guardians arent going to be benched, we will still be the premiere tank, it is our class, it's the only thing our class can do, its the only thing our class was made for (especially after these changes), we arent part tank part healer, we arent part tank part dps, we arent part tank part utility. Other fighters will definitely take a hit, especially the monk classes, and youre still fighting to shut yourself totally out of the only part of the game you dont dominate, its amusing to say the least. Diversity is the key to a healthy balance, any more melding of the classes is just going to make a lot of people totally un-needed and un-wanted. When did they remove the ignore user feature from the boards anyway? Nerfed the boards :smileysad: Message Edited by Paen on 08-28-2005 08:42 PM

08-29-2005, 09:21 AM	#35
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	The boards never had an ignore feature. You know, I think its funny the only people who say hybrids rule are people playing pure classes. If hybrids are so awesome, then why did you pick a pure class? Whether we have 6 classes that are equal, or 5 that suck and 1 that is awesome, regardless, its basically the same thing. I've never understood those against the archetype system when they complain about it making the game into 4 classes, when w/o it all you need is a guard/temp/lock/assassin. 4 classes. Irony, eh? __________________

08-29-2005, 02:14 PM	#36
blueduckie Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 259	I dont see where someone is saying hybrids rule. If you are talking about the post above he is clearly saying all non pure classes are gonna be weaving themselves out of roles and i 100% agree. With many debuffs taken out I would totally want group set ups for raids 1 dirge 5 assassin - 1 troubador 2 warlock 2 wiz 1 necro - 1 troubador 1 inq 1 defiler 1 paladin 1 guardian 1 warden - 1 guardian 1 conj 1 mystic 1 templar 1 fury 1 dirge Now i havnt scanned over all but looked at alot of them. Dirge / Troubador aggro spells gonna be one of the most important skills to have, every single group could benefit. Last i heard enchanter and bard power regen wont stack so unless has been changed back f enchanters IMO bards add tons more. 3 tanks might be light on changes 4 tops will be needed tho and will most likely want 2 guard 2 paladin if anything. Conj CotH gonna be very nice to have. I havnt looked at exactly what is gonna be best mt group set up but fury seems to be spoken word. That individual buff tho last i looked was like a 30sec buff for 3-5 min recast so i dont think that is a defining skill because it isnt reliable. If another class can stack more perma mit id rather have them. Perma mit is alot better and im not sure but could have sworn that fury cast was castable out of group not sure tho. Over all i agree with the poster above about pure classes. Debuffs stacking from multiple classes was a huge bonus to spread out. With skills not blocking eachother assassins gonna own [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] rangers will be good to. Rogues will be f'd good dps but that extra dps from predators is much nicer. As i say that is all my personal opinion is no person who will completely agree because am sure someone has more experience with beta classes than i do. Healers all comming out pretty well IMO the mix of heals etc looks good IMO - Guardians still gonna be preferred choice 90% of time unless need a higher resist boost on a mob and that person can put his higher than guardians gonna suck to be them. Assassins Rangers gonna own and bards will basically replace enchanters if power regens dont stack the ench other buffs arnt bad and debuffs but i dont see them adding as much dps etc as another assassin. Revamp is really pinning the need of spreading out classes. I personally liked the skill stacking issue. It was one of the few things that actually made eq2 strategic if wanting to maximize classes if you brought alot to 1 raid. i kinda thought the stacking issues shoul not only be group blockingo n raids but raid wide to make things alot more strategic and learned unison of what each person did. So much is dumbied down now in eq2. Healers can just target they mob they gotta heal off and watch tv using a sequence of heals. Nukers can just target a MA and watch tv nuking occasionally and checking to make sure he hasnt died or they havnt died. Aggro might be trickier after changes but they will settle into learning there aggro np. We already have mobs that dont train. That go invulnerable when running back. What makes mobs challenging IMO is the room for error. These changes on the post were said to make things more challenging but it doesnt seem that way to me. I like things will be smoother but quit making things easier. Not being able to abuse defense now sweet I only do that on 2 mobs atm anyway. Drayek and MoTM rest i enjoy taking every hit i cant block and parry especially angler because you can watch mitigation work the most on him and it is fun seeing gear show its full benefit. I like mit being king over avoidance but add in some challenging factors. From a betting mans view in the expansion hardest part of raids is gonna be aggro / group curing new type of ae's. I asusme will be many encounters with ways of adding adds that tanks have to pick up quick and keep killed. I still dont see this challenging tho i find that the most fun in the game on raids atm. Having to pick up pats on zalak is probably the most fun I have had on a raid to date that i have done. I wish each pat hit was a straight 8k hit to a raid with out possibly mitigation so if just 1 slipped by the entire raid wiped. Tanking 50 mobs at once in motm is just a bit silly in current state. Heals do all your taunting on motm. Please make eq2 more challenging and demand perfection to beat raid mobs! Understand i havnt raided a single t5 contested raid mob so i have no experience on them seem pretty challenging tho compared to others which owns would like more of that on a over all raid wise. Anyhoo guardians arnt getting it very bad IMO will still own. Just wont be able to watch as much tv while reactives taunt for you. However the HTL changes may prove me wrong seem pretty simple. Hope they make some raids where mobs can have a huge hit like every 5 min where all long recast low timer lasting mit buffs need to be put up at once to prevent being 1 shotted. That would make shizzle fun~ So it is late and some of this is most likely pointless rambling I am indifferent on the changes i dont mind skill changes because have no fear of class losing its role or anything but i was hoping for some heavy challenges.