30 Days, 10 Crafters, 300 Attempts, ZERO Reactants

[Deveryn]

Raknid wrote:

Troubor wrote:

Raknid wrote:

Since there is ZERO risk and just a few minutes involved, they should sell all 90 adventurers "lotto cards," purchasable once a day, for the price of 4 fuels + a few silver, buy doing a 100 foor or so fedex quest. That way it is fair and adventurers have the same oppurtunity to get these with the same level of effort.

Obvious troll is obvious. 

If you want more chances then just adventuring, then take up a tradeskill class as well, or roll up a tradeskill alt.  Then you can chances of getting one via both tradeskilling and adventuring.  Or did this honestly not occur to you?

Now before you say "but I hate tradeskilling", well that's not my problem.  The game is set up for there to be more then one way to get reactants.  Either make a character that can do it both ways, or don't.

As an aside, at least for t9 I only know of two places where Colossal reactants drop.  Drunder3/TOT and EOW.  If there's more I'll stand corrected especially if it's zones outside of Drunder, but EoW is pretty much for people in raid gear or at least VERY well equipped in heroic gear, and Drunder 3 can be done in heroic gear only, but is still very difficult if one is just in heroic level gear.  So for a good number of adventurers, even if they do group every day their only way of getting one short of buying them is STILL only via tradeskilling.  Not everyone is in raid gear or raids at level 90, and no I wouldn't say the majority of even level 90's do. 

I have 6 90 TSers, one 85, and a couple more in their 30s. That doesn't negate that fact that is incredibly easy with zero risk when getting a reactant. It is simply a no fail couple minute time sink chance a scrath lotto card for a reactant.

Can you think of a SINGLE thing in the adventure area that is even remotely close in the reward vs. time effort?

This isn't providing an equivilant oppurtunity for crafter to get gear, it is a GIFT, plain and simple.

How is it a gift, when people are getting as few as they are?

[Raknid]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

Raknid wrote:

Troubor wrote:

Raknid wrote:

Since there is ZERO risk and just a few minutes involved, they should sell all 90 adventurers "lotto cards," purchasable once a day, for the price of 4 fuels + a few silver, buy doing a 100 foor or so fedex quest. That way it is fair and adventurers have the same oppurtunity to get these with the same level of effort.

Obvious troll is obvious. 

If you want more chances then just adventuring, then take up a tradeskill class as well, or roll up a tradeskill alt.  Then you can chances of getting one via both tradeskilling and adventuring.  Or did this honestly not occur to you?

Now before you say "but I hate tradeskilling", well that's not my problem.  The game is set up for there to be more then one way to get reactants.  Either make a character that can do it both ways, or don't.

As an aside, at least for t9 I only know of two places where Colossal reactants drop.  Drunder3/TOT and EOW.  If there's more I'll stand corrected especially if it's zones outside of Drunder, but EoW is pretty much for people in raid gear or at least VERY well equipped in heroic gear, and Drunder 3 can be done in heroic gear only, but is still very difficult if one is just in heroic level gear.  So for a good number of adventurers, even if they do group every day their only way of getting one short of buying them is STILL only via tradeskilling.  Not everyone is in raid gear or raids at level 90, and no I wouldn't say the majority of even level 90's do. 

I have 6 90 TSers, one 85, and a couple more in their 30s. That doesn't negate that fact that is incredibly easy with zero risk when getting a reactant. It is simply a no fail couple minute time sink chance a scrath lotto card for a reactant.

Can you think of a SINGLE thing in the adventure area that is even remotely close in the reward vs. time effort?

This isn't providing an equivilant oppurtunity for crafter to get gear, it is a GIFT, plain and simple.

How is it a gift, when people are getting as few as they are?

Regardless of the rate individuals find, with 6 gold, a couple raws, and a couple/three minutes of time, it is certainly a gift to be given something on the level of the reward.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COMPARABLE IN ANY OTHER FACET OF THE GAME.

It is simply a token effort for a lottery chance. Be glad you get what you do considering what you put into it. The real people who have a right to complain are casual and mid level grouper who will never have a chance to get one EVEN THOUGH they put in orders of magnitude more skin in the game.

[Mizlek]

8 Crafters. 90 x4. 30's - 80's x4. I've gotten 3 Colossals. At least half a dozen lower tier'ed. More than a dozen rares. Stacks of awesome potions. 100's of common materials. And I didn't buy the expansion until the triple SC day.

All for what? Hardly any effort or cost at all. I spend about the same or less time messing with the all the apprentices than I do any given crafting daily. And this is what I get? Color me tickled pink.

Just because things exist in the game, doesn't mean you have to have them. They're a perk. A bonus. A treat. You will get along with or without them. You always have.

My only problem is, I don't have any level 90 adventurers, so I have no use for the colossals. I put one on the broker (hasn't sold at 1k), and the other two in the bank, where they will likely sit untouched until the end of days.

Really, I think it's fine.

-Miz

[Neskonlith]

Raknid wrote:

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COMPARABLE IN ANY OTHER FACET OF THE GAME.

Actually, on the adventure side of things there is the Gigglegibber lottery @10s per ticket for a chance to win plat, which can then be used to buy SLR items, of which takes little effort on the part of the buyer. 

Also on adventuring, I make ~30p a day without effort by doing a ~5 minute run through OoA on my alts.  The only effort in OoA run is staying awake to loot the freebie plat chest!

PR runs are another reward-for-nothing adventure lotto, as challenge in it is to loot with as few players as possible.

It's nice that a varied playstyle game like eq2 offers something fun to different aspects, not just rewards for only one certain segment, all the time, exclusively.

The reactants are a fun lotto for crafters, so some of us who raid, group, and craft are actually happy to see a neglected portion of the game getting some love.

[CoLD MeTaL]

Deornwulf wrote:

I have 10 crafters, 9 of which are now at level 90. I have completed the TS Quests every day, at least 300 times.

I have yet to get a reactant as a drop, not even on my under 90s.

I am cursed.

You aren't the only one.  9 90 crafters everyday since about week after launch of AoD, no reactants.

i have gotten a lesser reactant (yes one of them) from drops while leveling my beastlord.

These are far far too rare, the recipes at this rate are completely worthless, and by the time there are enough reactants the gear will be useless.  c'est la vie!

[bks6721]

Raknid wrote:

Since there is ZERO risk and just a few minutes involved, they should sell all 90 adventurers "lotto cards," purchasable once a day, for the price of 4 fuels + a few silver, buy doing a 100 foor or so fedex quest. That way it is fair and adventurers have the same oppurtunity to get these with the same level of effort.

tell us why you can't do the daily quest a dozen or more times..  every tradeskiller can

[bks6721]

Raknid wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

Raknid wrote:

Troubor wrote:

Raknid wrote:

Since there is ZERO risk and just a few minutes involved, they should sell all 90 adventurers "lotto cards," purchasable once a day, for the price of 4 fuels + a few silver, buy doing a 100 foor or so fedex quest. That way it is fair and adventurers have the same oppurtunity to get these with the same level of effort.

Obvious troll is obvious. 

If you want more chances then just adventuring, then take up a tradeskill class as well, or roll up a tradeskill alt.  Then you can chances of getting one via both tradeskilling and adventuring.  Or did this honestly not occur to you?

Now before you say "but I hate tradeskilling", well that's not my problem.  The game is set up for there to be more then one way to get reactants.  Either make a character that can do it both ways, or don't.

As an aside, at least for t9 I only know of two places where Colossal reactants drop.  Drunder3/TOT and EOW.  If there's more I'll stand corrected especially if it's zones outside of Drunder, but EoW is pretty much for people in raid gear or at least VERY well equipped in heroic gear, and Drunder 3 can be done in heroic gear only, but is still very difficult if one is just in heroic level gear.  So for a good number of adventurers, even if they do group every day their only way of getting one short of buying them is STILL only via tradeskilling.  Not everyone is in raid gear or raids at level 90, and no I wouldn't say the majority of even level 90's do. 

I have 6 90 TSers, one 85, and a couple more in their 30s. That doesn't negate that fact that is incredibly easy with zero risk when getting a reactant. It is simply a no fail couple minute time sink chance a scrath lotto card for a reactant.

Can you think of a SINGLE thing in the adventure area that is even remotely close in the reward vs. time effort?

This isn't providing an equivilant oppurtunity for crafter to get gear, it is a GIFT, plain and simple.

How is it a gift, when people are getting as few as they are?

Regardless of the rate individuals find, with 6 gold, a couple raws, and a couple/three minutes of time, it is certainly a gift to be given something on the level of the reward.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING COMPARABLE IN ANY OTHER FACET OF THE GAME.

It is simply a token effort for a lottery chance. Be glad you get what you do considering what you put into it. The real people who have a right to complain are casual and mid level grouper who will never have a chance to get one EVEN THOUGH they put in orders of magnitude more skin in the game.

ptthhh.. everyone has an equal chance.  those that choose NOT to take the actions required have nothing to cry about.  I'm currently leveling my 10th crafter so I can take 10 shots at a collosal every day.   IF it is SO EASY... everyone else can do it too.

PQ's are also random gifting.  Rare mobs in Pools is random gifting.  My weak toons can autoattack/win pools.  That is zero risk. LON cards are random gifts.

Since when is it cool to be anti-gift?   lol

[Valdaglerion]

The whole apprentice thing is one big LOL.

They keep making changes but none that matter. That should be telling you everything.

[Troubor]

Raknid wrote:

Troubor wrote:

Raknid wrote:

Since there is ZERO risk and just a few minutes involved, they should sell all 90 adventurers "lotto cards," purchasable once a day, for the price of 4 fuels + a few silver, buy doing a 100 foor or so fedex quest. That way it is fair and adventurers have the same oppurtunity to get these with the same level of effort.

Obvious troll is obvious. 

If you want more chances then just adventuring, then take up a tradeskill class as well, or roll up a tradeskill alt.  Then you can chances of getting one via both tradeskilling and adventuring.  Or did this honestly not occur to you?

Now before you say "but I hate tradeskilling", well that's not my problem.  The game is set up for there to be more then one way to get reactants.  Either make a character that can do it both ways, or don't.

As an aside, at least for t9 I only know of two places where Colossal reactants drop.  Drunder3/TOT and EOW.  If there's more I'll stand corrected especially if it's zones outside of Drunder, but EoW is pretty much for people in raid gear or at least VERY well equipped in heroic gear, and Drunder 3 can be done in heroic gear only, but is still very difficult if one is just in heroic level gear.  So for a good number of adventurers, even if they do group every day their only way of getting one short of buying them is STILL only via tradeskilling.  Not everyone is in raid gear or raids at level 90, and no I wouldn't say the majority of even level 90's do. 

I have 6 90 TSers, one 85, and a couple more in their 30s. That doesn't negate that fact that is incredibly easy with zero risk when getting a reactant. It is simply a no fail couple minute time sink chance a scrath lotto card for a reactant.

Can you think of a SINGLE thing in the adventure area that is even remotely close in the reward vs. time effort?

This isn't providing an equivilant oppurtunity for crafter to get gear, it is a GIFT, plain and simple.

And via the prayer shawl, the right tradeskill AA setup or even via hitting innovation as a crafting counter, it's possible to get a free rare, including a reactant as well.  Innovations have been in game since I assume the day it was launched.  The other two examples since DoV was launched.  If you wish to take away the "gift", then let's take those away as well, since according to you it's some cardinal sin for someone to be able to get extremly lucky and have a free rare via such.

I'm not saying, even if I am frustrated by not getting any from my apprentices (yet) that colossal reactants should be more common until the level cap hits 100 or some other major change in gear quality happens.  If everything stays the same until the game is no longer supported, then the same level of rarity should exist.  

But really now, other then TO TROLL, why are you complaining?  You even admit you have tier 9 artisans, so you can also have the chance to get a reactant via artisans.  Way back during the original game or DoF, when ebon and cobalt armor and weapons were close to top end, we had the ability to harvest rares without having to do an instance.  The ability to get a rare via a harvest, or in this case via a daily tradeskill quest has ALWAYS existed.  So before you continue on some "risk vrs reward" crusade, remember that there has always been a way to get rares via gameplay other then adventuring.

As an aside, again just as a reminder I have yet to get any via my apprentices.  ONLY via either buying them or as a loot drop.  Technically I suppose one could say I got one indirectly via tradeskilling if one counts the one I got via a prayer shawl proc.  So AGAIN despite that, I'm not advocating that colossals become more common until if/when they become obsolete via a level cap raise or a GU adding in more zones with better gear. 

But het, obvious troll is obvious. 

[Deornwulf]

I was mainly venting and engaging in a primal scream about the RNG hating me.

That being said, less than 1/2% chance at getting reactant is frustrating. In the time I have spent trying to get a reactant through the quests, I could have leveled a character to 90 and gotten one as a drop.

Getting caynar nuts and seahorse roe is also getting very old.

[Deveryn]

Deornwulf wrote:

I was mainly venting and engaging in a primal scream about the RNG hating me.

That being said, less than 1/2% chance at getting reactant is frustrating. In the time I have spent trying to get a reactant through the quests, I could have leveled a character to 90 and gotten one as a drop.

Getting caynar nuts and seahorse roe is also getting very old.

No one ever promised it would rain reactants, so your best bet is definitely to get 90 adventuring and grab them. Don't expect an increase in drops from the apprentices until they have a recipe that aids crafters. The only reason they even show up in a crafting lottery is because there are people that hit the appropriate zones AND craft, so it's more of a bonus chance for them.

[CoLD MeTaL]

40 days, 9 crafters, 0 reactants.  ( we should post everyday til we get one for those of us that still have yet to get a reactant)

Researching recipes you will never be able to use is the worst kind of game play.

[thewarriorpoet]

Mizlek wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:

I have 33 crafters, 25 of whom are level 90. So far I have gotten 5 Colossals. My husband with a similar number of crafters has gotten 7.

This is my experience after 45 days of crafting (with a few lapses here and there):

Reactants: 22

5 Colossal

1 Abberant

6 Simmering

4 Mummuring

6 Humming

Potions: 452

Raws: 825

25 lvl90 crafters * 40 day (to account for lapses; also being overly causious) = 1000 assistant quest rewards (cool, a nice round number).

5 colossals / 1000 rewards = 0.005 chance for a lvl90 reactant.

That's a half of a percent chance (0.5%) of getting one as a crafter. SoE, that is TOO LOW.

Thank you for the numbers Lateana!

Isn't that about the same as harvesting a tier 9 rare? Sans AA's.

-Miz

Apples and oranges. I can going harvesting and put in as much of my time as I want to get a rare. I cannot do that with reactant. By gating them on the quests they are putting a time block in place. No matter how much time I put into doing those quests I am limited by 1 per day. Now, I could sink time into more crafters but I want to compare as 1 toon to 1 toon as you cannot harvest more then 1 toon at a time (without more accounts). Don't get me wrong, the dating is fine but this means each toon will see a colossal once every 200 days on average.  That's a bit less then 2 a year. These will be obsolute long before then. The supply for these should exceed demand, but not this much. I would like to see a 3% chance (or about 1 a month).

[thewarriorpoet]

I wanted to add:

I have all my lvl 90 recipes on my WW. I have zero reason to keep doing these quests except for a chance at a colossal. But the current chance is so slim I don't really care if I miss a day.

When training a dog, you eventually move to random reinforcement to keep them guessing and so they respond when the situation really matters but there is no treat (like when they bolt from the door). Now this isn't to compare us gamers to dogs, but to point out that if those random rewards are so random and slim that they hardly happen then the effect is completely lost as the recipient views the reward not as random but as non-existant. Back to the comparison, the dog training is wasted as the link between the behavior and the reward is gone. Kind of like right now with the colossals. The link between crafters doing these quests and getting colossals DOES NOT EXIST. That is a problem. The apprentices were added for us crafters yet we effectively don't get the reward. /sadpanda

[Deveryn]

thewarriorpoet wrote:

I wanted to add:

I have all my lvl 90 recipes on my WW. I have zero reason to keep doing these quests except for a chance at a colossal. But the current chance is so slim I don't really care if I miss a day.

When training a dog, you eventually move to random reinforcement to keep them guessing and so they respond when the situation really matters but there is no treat (like when they bolt from the door). Now this isn't to compare us gamers to dogs, but to point out that if those random rewards are so random and slim that they hardly happen then the effect is completely lost as the recipient views the reward not as random but as non-existant. Back to the comparison, the dog training is wasted as the link between the behavior and the reward is gone. Kind of like right now with the colossals. The link between crafters doing these quests and getting colossals DOES NOT EXIST. That is a problem. The apprentices were added for us crafters yet we effectively don't get the reward. /sadpanda

So, I should be slapping people on the face with a rolled-up newspaper until they understand that the reactant reward is not for crafters, but adventurers?

[thewarriorpoet]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:

I wanted to add:

I have all my lvl 90 recipes on my WW. I have zero reason to keep doing these quests except for a chance at a colossal. But the current chance is so slim I don't really care if I miss a day.

When training a dog, you eventually move to random reinforcement to keep them guessing and so they respond when the situation really matters but there is no treat (like when they bolt from the door). Now this isn't to compare us gamers to dogs, but to point out that if those random rewards are so random and slim that they hardly happen then the effect is completely lost as the recipient views the reward not as random but as non-existant. Back to the comparison, the dog training is wasted as the link between the behavior and the reward is gone. Kind of like right now with the colossals. The link between crafters doing these quests and getting colossals DOES NOT EXIST. That is a problem. The apprentices were added for us crafters yet we effectively don't get the reward. /sadpanda

So, I should be slapping people on the face with a rolled-up newspaper until they understand that the reactant reward is not for crafters, but adventurers?

Yes, that is exactly what I wanted you to take from that post. Good job...here's a biscuit!

Seriously though, it is another slap in the face to crafters. We are getting F'd over hard and this was supposed to help with that, but just turned out to add to the problem.

[Deveryn]

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:

I wanted to add:

I have all my lvl 90 recipes on my WW. I have zero reason to keep doing these quests except for a chance at a colossal. But the current chance is so slim I don't really care if I miss a day.

When training a dog, you eventually move to random reinforcement to keep them guessing and so they respond when the situation really matters but there is no treat (like when they bolt from the door). Now this isn't to compare us gamers to dogs, but to point out that if those random rewards are so random and slim that they hardly happen then the effect is completely lost as the recipient views the reward not as random but as non-existant. Back to the comparison, the dog training is wasted as the link between the behavior and the reward is gone. Kind of like right now with the colossals. The link between crafters doing these quests and getting colossals DOES NOT EXIST. That is a problem. The apprentices were added for us crafters yet we effectively don't get the reward. /sadpanda

So, I should be slapping people on the face with a rolled-up newspaper until they understand that the reactant reward is not for crafters, but adventurers?

Yes, that is exactly what I wanted you to take from that post. Good job...here's a biscuit!

Seriously though, it is another slap in the face to crafters. We are getting F'd over hard and this was supposed to help with that, but just turned out to add to the problem.

You don't get it. You're not getting screwed over, especially if your crafter isn't even a 90 adventurer.

[thewarriorpoet]

Actually you don't get it. Read some of the threads in this forum. TSers have no way to be relevent in the end game anymore. Ooo yeah, we get a 5p commission fee becasue I have the stupid recipe. LAME!

The only crafters still used for anything beyond full sets of thurg armor for alts is food/drink and ammo. If you don't make those you're irrelivent. Most of what crafter is has been taken away by the SC items. Housing shapes...cool looking gear...spell/ca upgrades. Yes, we are not being screwed...we were screwed and this is just another sign of how little importance think crafters have.

[Deveryn]

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Actually you don't get it. Read some of the threads in this forum. TSers have no way to be relevent in the end game anymore. Ooo yeah, we get a 5p commission fee becasue I have the stupid recipe. LAME!

The only crafters still used for anything beyond full sets of thurg armor for alts is food/drink and ammo. If you don't make those you're irrelivent. Most of what crafter is has been taken away by the SC items. Housing shapes...cool looking gear...spell/ca upgrades. Yes, we are not being screwed...we were screwed and this is just another sign of how little importance think crafters have.

I do get it. People are boohooing over not getting reactants because they want to gouge adventurers for plats. That's the one and only reason they care so much about getting reactants. They have no other use for a crafter, unless that crafter is also 90 and adventuring on a regular basis. For that reason, you will never see an increase in the drop rate.

Crafters ARE relevant right now with the reactant armor and other things they make. The real trouble is everyone is out there making everything for themselves. SC and those items have nothing to do with crafting being relevant. A lot of that appearance armor is better left to SC anyway. Imagine how bloated the recipe books would be for outfitters if they could make ALL that stuff.

If by housing shapes, you mean building blocks, those are on the way for carpenters.

Things may be a little screwed up with all the recipes being all over the place, but no one is really all that screwed.

[Valdaglerion]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:

I wanted to add:

I have all my lvl 90 recipes on my WW. I have zero reason to keep doing these quests except for a chance at a colossal. But the current chance is so slim I don't really care if I miss a day.

When training a dog, you eventually move to random reinforcement to keep them guessing and so they respond when the situation really matters but there is no treat (like when they bolt from the door). Now this isn't to compare us gamers to dogs, but to point out that if those random rewards are so random and slim that they hardly happen then the effect is completely lost as the recipient views the reward not as random but as non-existant. Back to the comparison, the dog training is wasted as the link between the behavior and the reward is gone. Kind of like right now with the colossals. The link between crafters doing these quests and getting colossals DOES NOT EXIST. That is a problem. The apprentices were added for us crafters yet we effectively don't get the reward. /sadpanda

So, I should be slapping people on the face with a rolled-up newspaper until they understand that the reactant reward is not for crafters, but adventurers?

Yes, that is exactly what I wanted you to take from that post. Good job...here's a biscuit!

Seriously though, it is another slap in the face to crafters. We are getting F'd over hard and this was supposed to help with that, but just turned out to add to the problem.

You don't get it. You're not getting screwed over, especially if your crafter isn't even a 90 adventurer.

A person need not have a need to use the item they are selling. Since when does being a level 90 adventurer become a requirement for making and selling level 90 gear?

The apprentices are a joke. The current implementation is only meant to give you a sense of content because you can log in daily and spin the roulet wheel to see if you win a prize. 

Oh, and these things arent really dropping in level 90 adventure zones either with any consistent frequency.

[CoLD MeTaL]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

...

People are boohooing over not getting reactants because they want to gouge adventurers for plats. ...

No.

I am spending 5 or so days researching a recipe that there will never be enough raw materials to make more than a couple of those items. 

All of my 90 crafters are 90 adventurers, i would love a couple of reactants for chest pieces since PuGing is dead.  I have yet to get 1 reactant (the only real allure for a ts assistant) in over 360 tries.  Getting 1 try PER DAY makes it far rarer than rares were even at launch. Yes i've been playing since 12/2004.  I was in my 30s before I knew there even were rares to be harvested, I know rare.

Because they are so rare the prices are overly inflated, 1200p on my server.  which for a chest piece, since we have this one guy who bids near a thousand on every EM auction there is, is probably a deal.

These should be raining like candy because they are adequate for stepping into raiding, and because the entire heroic grouping system is completely busted.  Think about every non raiding person wanting close to 20 of them the likelyhood could go up by several orders of magnitude and not come close to meeting what the demand will be.

At the very least they should put in after so many tries you auto get one. 

Would you raid for 40 days without getting a single piece of gear?  would you go through a dungeon 40 times without getting any benefit from it?

[Deveryn]

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

...

People are boohooing over not getting reactants because they want to gouge adventurers for plats. ...

No.

I am spending 5 or so days researching a recipe that there will never be enough raw materials to make more than a couple of those items. 

All of my 90 crafters are 90 adventurers, i would love a couple of reactants for chest pieces since PuGing is dead.  I have yet to get 1 reactant (the only real allure for a ts assistant) in over 360 tries.  Getting 1 try PER DAY makes it far rarer than rares were even at launch. Yes i've been playing since 12/2004.  I was in my 30s before I knew there even were rares to be harvested, I know rare.

Because they are so rare the prices are overly inflated, 1200p on my server.  which for a chest piece, since we have this one guy who bids near a thousand on every EM auction there is, is probably a deal.

These should be raining like candy because they are adequate for stepping into raiding, and because the entire heroic grouping system is completely busted.  Think about every non raiding person wanting close to 20 of them the likelyhood could go up by several orders of magnitude and not come close to meeting what the demand will be.

At the very least they should put in after so many tries you auto get one. 

Would you raid for 40 days without getting a single piece of gear?  would you go through a dungeon 40 times without getting any benefit from it?

No, but I also wouldn't craft everyday with the expectation of getting what basically amounts to adventure loot on a regular basis. I would go group to get that loot.

If an adjustment is to be made, it should be made where they drop more in heroic dungeons, not where someone spends a hot minute crafting a basket.

[thewarriorpoet]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Actually you don't get it. Read some of the threads in this forum. TSers have no way to be relevent in the end game anymore. Ooo yeah, we get a 5p commission fee becasue I have the stupid recipe. LAME!

The only crafters still used for anything beyond full sets of thurg armor for alts is food/drink and ammo. If you don't make those you're irrelivent. Most of what crafter is has been taken away by the SC items. Housing shapes...cool looking gear...spell/ca upgrades. Yes, we are not being screwed...we were screwed and this is just another sign of how little importance think crafters have.

I do get it. People are boohooing over not getting reactants because they want to gouge adventurers for plats. That's the one and only reason they care so much about getting reactants. They have no other use for a crafter, unless that crafter is also 90 and adventuring on a regular basis. For that reason, you will never see an increase in the drop rate.

Crafters ARE relevant right now with the reactant armor and other things they make. The real trouble is everyone is out there making everything for themselves. SC and those items have nothing to do with crafting being relevant. A lot of that appearance armor is better left to SC anyway. Imagine how bloated the recipe books would be for outfitters if they could make ALL that stuff.

If by housing shapes, you mean building blocks, those are on the way for carpenters.

Things may be a little screwed up with all the recipes being all over the place, but no one is really all that screwed.

No. I want to be able to make and provide sure for myself, my wife, and my guildies. Once upon a time I TS'd to offer a service to my friends in game. The ability to do that is pretty much dead now.

[thewarriorpoet]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

...

People are boohooing over not getting reactants because they want to gouge adventurers for plats. ...

No.

I am spending 5 or so days researching a recipe that there will never be enough raw materials to make more than a couple of those items. 

All of my 90 crafters are 90 adventurers, i would love a couple of reactants for chest pieces since PuGing is dead.  I have yet to get 1 reactant (the only real allure for a ts assistant) in over 360 tries.  Getting 1 try PER DAY makes it far rarer than rares were even at launch. Yes i've been playing since 12/2004.  I was in my 30s before I knew there even were rares to be harvested, I know rare.

Because they are so rare the prices are overly inflated, 1200p on my server.  which for a chest piece, since we have this one guy who bids near a thousand on every EM auction there is, is probably a deal.

These should be raining like candy because they are adequate for stepping into raiding, and because the entire heroic grouping system is completely busted.  Think about every non raiding person wanting close to 20 of them the likelyhood could go up by several orders of magnitude and not come close to meeting what the demand will be.

At the very least they should put in after so many tries you auto get one. 

Would you raid for 40 days without getting a single piece of gear?  would you go through a dungeon 40 times without getting any benefit from it?

No, but I also wouldn't craft everyday with the expectation of getting what basically amounts to adventure loot on a regular basis. I would go group to get that loot.

If an adjustment is to be made, it should be made where they drop more in heroic dungeons, not where someone spends a hot minute crafting a basket.

Ah, you should be. There is no "end-game" to TS'ing. There is no raiding (the group instances are just painful). If you aren't TS'ing to get stuff for an adventurer what the hell are you tradeskilling for?

They need to be more available and they need to be more available to crafter who may not be adventurers. Right now, both of those two things are not true.

[Lempo]

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Actually you don't get it. Read some of the threads in this forum. TSers have no way to be relevent in the end game anymore. Ooo yeah, we get a 5p commission fee becasue I have the stupid recipe. LAME!

The only crafters still used for anything beyond full sets of thurg armor for alts is food/drink and ammo. If you don't make those you're irrelivent. Most of what crafter is has been taken away by the SC items. Housing shapes...cool looking gear...spell/ca upgrades. Yes, we are not being screwed...we were screwed and this is just another sign of how little importance think crafters have.

If you are not happy with a 5p commission fee then don't click the start crafting button, pretty easy solution don't ya think.

[CoLD MeTaL]

thewarriorpoet wrote:

No. I want to be able to make and provide sure for myself, my wife, and my guildies. Once upon a time I TS'd to offer a service to my friends in game. The ability to do that is pretty much dead now.

NOTHING was better about this game than being able to make stuff that people could actually use to go battle evil or whatnot.  When that died with whichever producer had the 'scraping things out of the dirt' should be dirt comment, the game really started the downhill process to gear rules all.

[Mizlek]

thewarriorpoet wrote:

Actually you don't get it. Read some of the threads in this forum. TSers have no way to be relevent in the end game anymore. Ooo yeah, we get a 5p commission fee becasue I have the stupid recipe. LAME!

The only crafters still used for anything beyond full sets of thurg armor for alts is food/drink and ammo. If you don't make those you're irrelivent. Most of what crafter is has been taken away by the SC items. Housing shapes...cool looking gear...spell/ca upgrades. Yes, we are not being screwed...we were screwed and this is just another sign of how little importance think crafters have.

Lame? Give me your business then. I will craft for 5p a pop all day long. And stop using "we". I am primarily a crafter (56 high for an adventurer) and I do not share your opinion.

-Miz

[Raknid]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

If an adjustment is to be made, it should be made where they drop more in heroic dungeons, not where someone spends a hot minute crafting a basket.

QFE.

[Raknid]

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

thewarriorpoet wrote:

No. I want to be able to make and provide sure for myself, my wife, and my guildies. Once upon a time I TS'd to offer a service to my friends in game. The ability to do that is pretty much dead now.

NOTHING was better about this game than being able to make stuff that people could actually use to go battle evil or whatnot.  When that died with whichever producer had the 'scraping things out of the dirt' should be dirt comment, the game really started the downhill process to gear rules all.

No. The game started downhill the SECOND they let the T6 tradeskill recipes loose. Then every joe blow felt entitled to overpowered equipment and the game went from where you could tackle group content with treasured and MC gear to need legendary (eventually obviously not overnight). Once they gave a taste of the power to the people who didn't want to earn it they had to start catering to that and "average" content just got harder and harder.

[Deornwulf]

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Deveryn@Crushbone wrote:

...

People are boohooing over not getting reactants because they want to gouge adventurers for plats. ...

No.

I am spending 5 or so days researching a recipe that there will never be enough raw materials to make more than a couple of those items. 

All of my 90 crafters are 90 adventurers, i would love a couple of reactants for chest pieces since PuGing is dead.  I have yet to get 1 reactant (the only real allure for a ts assistant) in over 360 tries.  Getting 1 try PER DAY makes it far rarer than rares were even at launch. Yes i've been playing since 12/2004.  I was in my 30s before I knew there even were rares to be harvested, I know rare.

Because they are so rare the prices are overly inflated, 1200p on my server.  which for a chest piece, since we have this one guy who bids near a thousand on every EM auction there is, is probably a deal.

These should be raining like candy because they are adequate for stepping into raiding, and because the entire heroic grouping system is completely busted.  Think about every non raiding person wanting close to 20 of them the likelyhood could go up by several orders of magnitude and not come close to meeting what the demand will be.

At the very least they should put in after so many tries you auto get one. 

Would you raid for 40 days without getting a single piece of gear?  would you go through a dungeon 40 times without getting any benefit from it?

No, but I also wouldn't craft everyday with the expectation of getting what basically amounts to adventure loot on a regular basis. I would go group to get that loot.

If an adjustment is to be made, it should be made where they drop more in heroic dungeons, not where someone spends a hot minute crafting a basket.

I would love to have a serious crafting quest that was actually long and involved if it meant I had a better chance at getting a reactant.

I'd be willing to sacrifice a rare to creat an MC item for the quest if it gave me a better chance at getting a reactant.

I'd do either one if it guaranteed I wouldn't get a stack of common harvests as a reward, EVER.

I would even settle for the reactants being added as a POSSIBLE reward for the Mara Daily Instances.

Since the simple quest you seem to despise is the ONLY method the Devs have given pure Crafters to get a reactant, commenting on the absurdity of the rarity is justified. For some crafters, hitting the heroic content is not an option, especially if they already suffer from not having good enough gear to be accepted into a heroic group.

Crafting is supposed to be a viable, stand-alone option as a profession in EQ2. Forcing crafters to adventure or pay 1000s of plat to make items goes against that concept.