Progression

[ZhouyuOda]

When someone posts an opinion on a MMORPG forums and it doesn't turn into a flame war or find anyone who disagrees with the OP and you get every single member of the forum 100% agree with the OP you know there is a major crisis.

I really hope this thread gets an official response from a red name.

[Kander]

Xenxex@Antonia Bayle wrote:

War Runes were cool, then they werent' why? No heirloom, no fix, lets just move away from it completely since its obviously a bad idea(b/c it never became heirloom). Future loot(granted subject to change) looks just as uninspiring and lacks just as much if not more creativity than what we have already. 

Question is, the playerbase knows it - why dont you the devs.

War Runes shall be heirloom.

[Undorett]

Finally, Thank you kander, and thank you to whoever convinced SJ to let you do it.

[Lempo]

Kander wrote:

Xenxex@Antonia Bayle wrote:

War Runes were cool, then they werent' why? No heirloom, no fix, lets just move away from it completely since its obviously a bad idea(b/c it never became heirloom). Future loot(granted subject to change) looks just as uninspiring and lacks just as much if not more creativity than what we have already. 

Question is, the playerbase knows it - why dont you the devs.

War Runes shall be heirloom.

So it is written so it shall be done.

via a hot fix or November update? Any kind of timeline?

[Wytie]

Great so that fixes 1 of the DOV part 1 launch problems.

Big deal really, they have already said they were moving away from them and most people by now have learned how to deal with it. It will hardly help the OP main issues in the post.

[Kander]

Undorett wrote:

Finally, Thank you kander, and thank you to whoever convinced SJ to let you do it.

Doing it now, setting it for hotfix.

Thank Silius, it was his call.

[Lempo]

It was a good thing to do.

Thanks for the good news and the reply!

[Wilin]

Kander wrote:

Undorett wrote:

Finally, Thank you kander, and thank you to whoever convinced SJ to let you do it.

Doing it now, setting it for hotfix.

Thank Silius, it was his call.

Thanks!

[DuneWarrior]

Kander wrote:

Undorett wrote:

Finally, Thank you kander, and thank you to whoever convinced SJ to let you do it.

Doing it now, setting it for hotfix.

Thank Silius, it was his call.

Thanks awesome.

Now back on track, slippery still got it right. Any comments?

[NViDiaFReaK]

Kander wrote:

Undorett wrote:

Finally, Thank you kander, and thank you to whoever convinced SJ to let you do it.

Doing it now, setting it for hotfix.

Thank Silius, it was his call.

Best news all week

[ZhouyuOda]

Kander wrote:

Xenxex@Antonia Bayle wrote:

War Runes were cool, then they werent' why? No heirloom, no fix, lets just move away from it completely since its obviously a bad idea(b/c it never became heirloom). Future loot(granted subject to change) looks just as uninspiring and lacks just as much if not more creativity than what we have already. 

Question is, the playerbase knows it - why dont you the devs.

War Runes shall be heirloom.

Don't get me wrong it is appreciated that you are fixing this problem so we have an easier time getting runes for our alts....however ....there are far more pressing issues posted by the OP and several other people here that would require some form of comment from the DEV team. This isn't just one or two people upset, this isn't a matter of a few guilds upset, this has the entire community upset.

Speaking for just our guild, we had 5 people quit already due to itemization changes, because of all the work we put into raiding since launch and now instance gear is better than what we got. These are serious issues that if you don't address them, or comment on them they won't just guy away. You guys have got to deal with this.

-Itemization

- Too much forced progression

- Ridiculous crit mit/crit chance requirements within the SAME expansion.

- Flat out too many raid zones with uninteresting loot yet forced to be on the progression timeline.

These are the issues we want a comment on , not war runes becoming heirloom.

[arieste]

ZhouyuOda wrote:

- Ridiculous crit mit/crit chance requirements within the SAME expansion.

Honestly, I am not a huge fan of the Crit MIt mechanic, but overall, i find it to be a more elegant solution than simply making the zones locked artificially.   

First time we killed a HM mob this expac, the tank had 175cm and the rest of us had less.  We died A TON, but at least we had the option to be in the zone and checking it out.  If it was based purely on having cleared the previous tier, we may not have been there until a while later. 

It also simplifies things for more casual players that aren't interested in investing a lot of time in setting up their characters or learning all the ins and outs of gear.  With this system, they just know that they need X crit mit and Y crit chance and that if thye have that, chances are their gear is fine for the zone they're going into.  Is it dumbing down the game? Sure, but it makes it easier for new players or casuals to get into the endgame.

[denmom]

Kander wrote:

Undorett wrote:

Finally, Thank you kander, and thank you to whoever convinced SJ to let you do it.

Doing it now, setting it for hotfix.

Thank Silius, it was his call.

I thank you both, as do my raiding Coercer and Swash!

[ZhouyuOda]

arieste wrote:

ZhouyuOda wrote:

- Ridiculous crit mit/crit chance requirements within the SAME expansion.

Honestly, I am not a huge fan of the Crit MIt mechanic, but overall, i find it to be a more elegant solution than simply making the zones locked artificially.   

First time we killed a HM mob this expac, the tank had 175cm and the rest of us had less.  We died A TON, but at least we had the option to be in the zone and checking it out.  If it was based purely on having cleared the previous tier, we may not have been there until a while later. 

It also simplifies things for more casual players that aren't interested in investing a lot of time in setting up their characters or learning all the ins and outs of gear.  With this system, they just know that they need X crit mit and Y crit chance and that if thye have that, chances are their gear is fine for the zone they're going into.  Is it dumbing down the game? Sure, but it makes it easier for new players or casuals to get into the endgame.

Yes but the fact that the crit mit requirement in zones within the same expansion is so massive is the problem. Which is why Slippery said you can only really do 3 zones at a time and the rest of the content is irrelevant to you. We have more zones in Velious than any other expansion yet we are raiding the least number of zones than any other expansion.

Wait until guild start to make progression in Drunder HM zones, when you lose 1 member and have to replace them or if someone has to be re-geared on a class, you have to go back to easy modes, then to hardmodes then to be able to get back in Drunder HM. Problem is, the new recruit cannot even participate in your farming of the current tier your guild is raiding due to strict crit mit/crit chance requirement. Skill is not in question in anymore, a healer that is not critting will not be able to heal through a HM mob, regardless of their skill. A dps class that is not critting cannot crit on a mob regardles of how good they are. Reason this is such a major issue is the large gap in crit mit requirement between start of expansion content (tier 1 raids) and end game currently.

Crit mit/Crit chance requirement for every HM zone should be the same, the challenge within the "harder" zone such as Drunder HM should have been made through the actual script and execution of it, rather than it's crit mit/chance requirement.

Edit to add this as a perfect example: The challenge to Cheldrak back in t7 was the fight itself, not a question of stats. We had a 11 horu raid day our first time in, and when we did finally get our kill at near midnight, it was a near flawless kill. Not because we farmed or anyone got gear that night, but because we perfected the script of that mob. Now instead of content creators getting creative to create engaging and challenging raid content, they stack a crit mit/chance requirement on a mob to call it "hard".

[EvilAstroboy]

I agree, I have always hated crit mit, and its just gotten rediculous now. Content should be gated by script difficulty and prior kills, not stupid crit mit barriers. Gearing up new players is just tedious, and they are useless until they catch up on gear.

[Lempo]

Kander wrote:

Undorett wrote:

Finally, Thank you kander, and thank you to whoever convinced SJ to let you do it.

Doing it now, setting it for hotfix.

Thank Silius, it was his call.

Signed sealed and delivered, in the patch notes for tomorrows fix, wish i'd of read them before raid tonight dain's legacy went to rot lol.

Thanks to you too Silius if you are listening in.

[Finding]

3 things that I hope to see:

1- War Runes:  Make more interesting war runes. At the moment 90% of the war runes are trashed. 

2- Armour Patterns: Stop being lazy and make real itemization. consolidate the heroic shard and raid shard into 1 thing and allow people to purchase raid patterns at merchant. Every mob should have an rare item that is highly sough after. Anyone still remember getting their GDH in KoS, or their REH in SoH, these item keeps guild going back to the same zone and farm over and over again. 

Item Progression:

Heroic Fable -> Shard Pattern(enable raid survival) -> Raid Fable(increased survival and dps) -> Unique Rare Fable(unique proc that is a game changer i.e. REH) -> End Boss Fable(more survial and dps) -> Unique End Boss Fable(same unique proc but more powerful) -> Contested Fable (Best gear in game) -> Contested Rare Fable (Game changer, something that should be both powerful and unique, like a proc that turns you into a dragon or something that people can brag about)

3- Put Proc back into itemization

[Undorett]

1 isn't going to happen, they are phasing war runes out. In fact i think war rune slots are gone as of plane of war. Not that we will see that loot any time soon. 3 is already happening due to the removal of new war rune slotted items

[Trensharo]

EvilAstroboy wrote:

I agree, I have always hated crit mit, and its just gotten rediculous now. Content should be gated by script difficulty and prior kills, not stupid crit mit barriers. Gearing up new players is just tedious, and they are useless until they catch up on gear.

Crit Mit isn't a gating mechanic.  It simply tells you what general gear level the content is balanced for.

Removing CM won't make groups that are failing pass instantly, because MOBs damage without CB is balanced assuming the players attempting the content have adequate CM levels.

Example:  PQ geared tank can have 135 CM.  Spire of Rage only requires 120 CM.  Do you think that tank can take spire of rage, even if they remove CM, irregardless of the fact that even in PQ gear, the CM requirmeents of the zone are an afterthought since he is not recieving any bonus Crit Damage, anyways?  No.  He won't.  The gruop will probably not even be able to spawn the first boss since the tank will get plummeled on the trash Packs.

When you upgrade gear, your CM goes up.  In addition to CM, you gain other stats that aid surviveability - HP being the most obvious.

Removing CM won't stop someone with PQ gear and 28k HP from getting 1 shotted by an AoE.  All it will do is ensure more people try to attempt content they shouldn't be thinking about attempting (at that moment).  It's like all the people who were trying to do ToRZ or Kael Contested in PQ-level gear after release and complaining about the amount of wipes and their inability to get past the Gate Encounter bosses in Heroics like Spire/ToRZ/Throne of Storms/ISK due to 1 shots, AoEs killing multiple people, and the tank dropping like a level 10 mage when he gets debuffed and the MOBs smash his face.

The agonizing over CM has more to do with people wanting to skip content and just "move on" when they aren't ready.  No one wants to farm heroics for gear before they start raiding.  They just want to go to x2s with their PQ and quest gear and faceroll.  I still see people raiding with PQ gear in some slots, or heroic off-slots that are worse than x2 gear complaining about Crit Requirements in some raid zones.  Really, it's more of a community problem, not a mechanical issue in the game.

CM is fine.  Crit Avoidance is a bit over hte top mainly due to the limited amount of slots you get Crit in (so one crappy item can really nerf yours down a bit), but it's not nearly as bad as you people make it out to be.