What Aspects of RIFT Belong or Don't Belong in EQ2? - Page 2

Rick777 · 05-23-2011, 10:30 AM

Oh I've also gotta add, I NEVER want to see a global cooldown timer in eq2, god please no. I've never experienced something that took me out of the game as much as a GCD, looking at my hotbars all the time to know which spell to cast next is one thing as you usually build up a rhythym, but having to constantly just sit there and wait for the GCD to refresh after each and EVERY freakin spell cast just killed me with boredom one second at a time. eq2 just seems to much more fluid and dynamic because it doesn't have a GCD.

agnott · 05-23-2011, 11:32 AM

Rick777 wrote:

Oh I've also gotta add, I NEVER want to see a global cooldown timer in eq2, god please no. I've never experienced something that took me out of the game as much as a GCD, looking at my hotbars all the time to know which spell to cast next is one thing as you usually build up a rhythym, but having to constantly just sit there and wait for the GCD to refresh after each and EVERY freakin spell cast just killed me with boredom one second at a time. eq2 just seems to much more fluid and dynamic because it doesn't have a GCD.

Reminds me of the old EQ1 waiting to get my mana back. I could send out 3 invoices for my company for every mana downtime.

Rijacki · 05-23-2011, 11:53 AM

Baubo@Unrest wrote:

A button comes up 'Join Public Group'. You either press it or you don't. Simple.
I think it would be a good idea for PQ's.

This is one thing I would look at "importing" were I a developer on EQ2.

During the SOE down time, my boyfriend and I played a week trial in Rift. The one thing I liked in Rift 'better' than EQ2 is the ease in joining a public group and leaving it. There was no need to beg for an invite, not knowing who to ask, needing to de-group to get invited in to the raid. etc. Leaving one, too, was exceptionally simple. We did several of the small rifts in the low level area (got to 15 by the weeks end.. playing -very- casually) and never once had to drop our duo to join a public group to take down a rift and leaving it didn't cause our duo to change either. We slipped in and out with nary a bump.

While, in some ways, I like the 'skinning' of dead animals in Rift (and Vanguard) as the harvest for hides, I remember back to the days in EQ1 where the only way to raise some tradeskills at all was by the happenstance of obtaining the materials while adventuring. It wasn't possible to be a high 'skilled' crafter without either being an adventurer or obtaining the materials from adventurers. SWG pre-NGE (dunno now) and EQ2 are the only two games I've played where it has been 100% viable to have a playstyle solely focused on crafting and be mostly (or even entirely) self-sufficient and not have to rely on adventuring to raise skill in crafting. I'd love to see 'special' crafting have something like the skinning in Vanguard/Rift but not for it to be the only way.

Anastasie · 05-23-2011, 03:40 PM

AOE looting - love this feature from rift - so you don't have to click every nearby corpse.

Auto Bag Swapping - put a larger bag in your inventory/bank slot and the contents automatically move into the larger container.

Quest Clickies on the quest helper - this is very nice

Out-of-Combat spec swapping - eq2 could use a pocket mirror for spec swapping.

Vendor grey trash loot w/ one click

Armor Dye

(They are also adding free server transfers - limited to once per week)

Loldawg · 05-23-2011, 04:21 PM

Loved:

Ease of public grouping.
AOE looting.
AA specs that can be changed on the fly - that literally let you be an entirely different sub-class - awesome.

Hated:

Global cool downs
Overall lack of complexity
Slow feeling of combat and character movement (I had a 65% mount)

Econometr · 05-23-2011, 04:44 PM

Mirrian wrote:

I hate to say it but the populations of eq2 along with the massive size of the 'world' would make anything remotely like Rift impossible..so a rift opens up...90% of the time nobody is even going to be near it and if you do happen to be there, you will most likely be the only one there..and soloing (or trying to) a rift isn't a fun thing. I agree with the other poster on the class system..too many classes and half of them either to general to be useful or too specific to a given task. I do like the ability to have several roles available...that is, to me, the saving grace of the class system they have, if you level up and find you don't like the play style, you can change it..up to a point at least, you only get 4 roles, but that should in most cases, be enough. The graphics are really nice, the tradeskills are a joke..kinda like the classes..way too many and very hard to figure out which one does what, just look on the broker and they have a couple sub level 10 items and all the rest level 50. There are some things I really like, but looking at the whole thing I think there's a lot more Rift could gain from eq2 than the other way around. A lot more.

Several of the RIFT classes are too specialized. I question whether they can function on their own or exist only to serve as secondary (or tertiary) callings. Examples include the voidknight, archon, and riftstalker. The warlock in EQ2 is also highly specialized but works well when the encounter mechanic is used liberally in an expansion. Enchanters are also specialized in that they focus heavily on CC. However, they can serve multiple roles (e.g., buff dps/healer, restore mana).

In my opinion, EQ2 has a much better class system than RIFT (or WoW, for that matter). With a few notable exceptions (e.g., enchanters in SF), the classes in EQ2 are well balanced. Players are not confronted with constant class changes due to PVE/PVP imbalances.

Kigneer · 05-23-2011, 05:02 PM

Rick777 wrote:

The graphics, while well touted, seemed very bland and cheap to me, and this is on the absoulte highest graphic setting. So right there I'd say one thing I wouldn't like brought over from Rift is the graphics.

That is true, but EQ2's graphics come at a huge expense -- CPU rendered.

All bells and whistles turned on on this i7 system in Rift get from 52 to 83fps (HD 5970 @ 1920x1080). Extreme settings in EQ2 managed to get to 32fps max (on the GTX 570, haven't been able to login to checked with the HD 5970). It hurts to play EQ2 even on an i7 rig.

Still waiting for any MMO besides EQ2 to have shiny silver appearance armor, though. Matching shiny silver Pally winged helm is a plus (put it on the item store for pete's sake even!). SMILEY

gourdon · 05-23-2011, 05:24 PM

I'm surprised at how many people have commented on the class system in RIFT. It seems extremely unlikely that EQ2 is going to restructure the entire AA and class system.

gourdon · 05-23-2011, 05:36 PM

MurFalad wrote:

The question could as well have been "What aspects of WoW" since apart from the rifts every other feature of that game has been slavishly copied from WoW with the intention of attracting WoW players, even their latest campaign aludes to WoW again.
gourdon wrote:
Undoubtedly, some of the developers have played RIFT and have their opinions about how to make Norrath more dynamic, but our input might help them.
Well I think Smedley did check it out since in a January 18th Interview he said
"One thing that we've learned over our company's history is that it takes time to make great games. And we're not trying to make cookie-cutter MMOs. There's some stuff coming out in the next two or three months, MMO-wise, and a lot of it is generic copycats of other games. That's not what we want to do."
gourdon wrote:
Good:
When the invaders show up, they are all over the place and kill all of the other mobs in the area. This disrupts the ability to do quests, but is an important part of the event. The battles in Storm Gorge could use a little more of an open ended flavor with a less focused battle occurring with less focus on winning the battle and more on defeating objectives to help the Cold Dain (or the Rime). This would require going to tokens instead of equipment for rewards.
Since there is only one new feature in that MMO (the multi class system I believe is bad for future playability and the RPG core of a MMO) and that's rifts I'll throw in my comments.
1) They're not really dynamic, because like every other MMO out there the players do not direct the action, instead they respond to it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, that sort of gameplay is clearly fun as EQ2, WoW etc shows, but if someone wanted to do something new and interesting then having the players direct how events and the world changes would be exciting.
2) Which leads me onto my second point, the world doesn't change. In essence they are no more then slightly more complex ring events, something happens (this time not activated by a player), the player responds, the event ends, nothing changes.
Why not have towns switch allegance depending on how the battle goes? This could open up and close down questing/dungeon options, a more dynamic world.
Why not have towns and buildings destroyed meaning that the world changes, and then have the ability for crafters to come in and rebuild, maybe in their own image in a little way (e.g. touches of Fae architecture)?
In essence I'd like to see something where the players direct the storyline with every action effecting the world (even if in only a tiny way), in a way this happens in Planetside, there are no need for quests to be given out, but simply capturing/upgrading/combat engineering and resupplying buildings does alter the map at least a little, although this is of course for PVP only.
The storytelling that can be done by then adding in NPCs to fight against and alongside I think would be good fun.
As for the graphics engine, I think Eve is the inspiration of how things could be done with EQ2, there they have revamped it a few times and even phased out support for shader 1 and shader 2 since they are too old now.

My undoubtedly comment comes from the fact that I don't pay attention to Smed, but it is predicatable that he has played RIFT.

When something changes, it is dynamic. The events in RIFT are dynamic. There is no permanent world change, but that isn't necessary to be dynamic. They are just a fancy ring event that kicks off based upon timing and player proximity factors rather than the death of a static mob. I was suggesting baby steps like crude environmental status ratings because we aren't going to get player directed storyline in the near future. Further, I'm not sure player directed anything belongs in an MMO, but rather in a single player CRPG.

Yimway · 05-23-2011, 05:40 PM

What EQ2 could gain from rift?

The soulstone concept. In that I can within seconds swap between any scout type with a pre-built AA build fo each given scout. I can run my ranger soul out doing some solo content and in 10 seconds I can be a dirge for a PuG thats forming up.

Rift has more than demonstrated players are indeed smart enough to change roles/classes that quickly and still be effective. SoE should learn from this as the idea that I need to re-roll 6 scouts to fill any possible scout roll as needed is no longer a great design.

The generalizing of gear and stats has made the viability of this swapping even more viable. My gear migh be based upon being the best Ranger around, but that same gear will still do ok as a bard.

What EQ2 could gain from wow?

Dungeon Finder. It has its plus and minuses, but the ability to within minutes find a group (cross server) and begin working a mission vs the very manual process that exists in EQ2 is a significant bonus for players. It has social implications, but the good out weighs the bad.

What EQ2 could gain from several titles?

AoE looting. I really don't need to click 20 corpses I just AoE'd to the ground.

Talathion · 05-23-2011, 05:45 PM

RIFT combat is boring and puts me to sleep.

You move to slow in battle, combat is slow.

Global Cooldowns are fail. (LOL you have to wait 1.5 seconds to do an ability)

Rijacki · 05-23-2011, 06:34 PM

One thing I definately would not want EQ2 to "gain" from Rift (or any other game where it is found), quest 'objects' that have to be looted/picked up on -every- quest without any virtual updates at all. Requirements to keep a lot of stuff in your personal inventory + limited inventory space = torment of the 9th circle of hell (at least in my opinion).

Plus, with the "click from the quest journal to activate widget", why does Rift need to have quest widgets get dropped into your bags (limited inventory again)? While I found the "click from journal" to be handy, it seemed redundant and a bit backward because the object thing.

Elwin · 05-23-2011, 08:04 PM

Failathion@Nagafen wrote:

RIFT combat is boring and puts me to sleep.
You move to slow in battle, combat is slow.
Global Cooldowns are fail. (LOL you have to wait 1.5 seconds to do an ability)

Warrior: 1.2 Seconds

Cleric: 1 Second

Rogue: 0.5 Seconds

Mage: 1 Second

They are the cool down times, a lot of abilities have no GCD at all.

Kigneer · 05-23-2011, 08:06 PM

gourdon wrote:

I'm surprised at how many people have commented on the class system in RIFT. It seems extremely unlikely that EQ2 is going to restructure the entire AA and class system.

Wouldn't want it unless it's a true multiclass system -- e.g., DDO's version.

Being stuck to builds in a particular class is sub-classing, not multiclassing.

Pyrochick · 05-23-2011, 08:09 PM

quite honestly RIFT overall is a wow clone, it is complete easymode, I bought rift upon release and within 10 days I was already at max level cap and get this, I barely even played it, the quest system is extremely easy and boring little to no variation....kill your way thru 500 mobs get to your objective kill your way back out thru the same 500 mobs to turn in quest then get another quest to go right back to the same place u just cleared......to be honest I have absolutely no desire to see rift implemented here in anyway, we already have rifts ala PQ pq's are basically a copy of the rift system lets leave it at that please

MurFalad · 05-23-2011, 08:26 PM

gourdon wrote:

I was suggesting baby steps like crude environmental status ratings because we aren't going to get player directed storyline in the near future. Further, I'm not sure player directed anything belongs in an MMO, but rather in a single player CRPG.

I'd argue the opposite, the entire point of an MMO was to create a virtual world that we can ultimately influence, many of the game systems we have today are approximations of real world things. Take for example our stats, in the early days there were just five numbers plus one for armour, now we model each different armour peice something that wasn't practical on those computers.

But things do seem to have gone stagnant there after WoW launched, instead of offering a ever more detailed world (that EQ2 advanced from EQ1) it seems that things have become stuck on a very one dimensional hack and slash game for most of the genre and if anything things have gone backwards from EQ1.

Here's another example of a player directed world, how about giving every trader a secret AI, nothing fancy but give them a trait for the sort of unusual goods they might buy with a bigger store. And then make their stores scale up and down depending how often players use their services/how busy the area is + a little bit of randomness, so popular shops grow to have a larger selection, and maybe someone might specialise in harvest goods, rare adornments, or other useful items.

It would be fun then seeing what the NPC's in Castleview hamlet for example are selling that week, instead of knowing that they sell the exactly the same standard list as everyone else, which does cut down on the interest to explore the world.

For a truly dynamic world players do not have to control everything, but they should have an influence on the events that unfold, for example I'd like to see the Qeynos guard trying to erect guard towers around to protect certain sites while the gnolls try to attack those sites with conflicts spawning battles (PQ's) that decide how the map changes. Then the players (Freeport and Qeynos) influence the events by aiding one side or another.

thesiren · 05-23-2011, 08:52 PM

Kigneer wrote:

Wouldn't want it unless it's a true multiclass system -- e.g., DDO's version.
Being stuck to builds in a particular class is sub-classing, not multiclassing.

That's all Rift's 9 souls per character are is sub-classing. A Rift Cleric can be any of 9 cleric souls (sub-classes), 3 at a time, in up to 5 different sets of 3 she can switch between at will.

I.E. Cleric souls you can swap between are: Druid, Purifyer, Shaman, Justicar, Warden, Sentinel, Cabalist, Inquisitor, and Templar (a PvP-only soul). Er, not that I have a 50 Cleric there or anything. You can't suddenly become a warrior, mage or rogue/ranger type without rolling a different character with one of those main classes.

And for the record, most other MMORPGs couldn't even begin to allow such a deep range of sub-classing....except for Everquest 2. EQ2 is almost uniquely positioned in this industry for that sort of potential.

And imagine what a come-back offer *that* would be for old retirees, with a draw even for new players! Build up your AAs and gear and keep it, even if you want to swap out sub-classes within your main class! Not crazy about the wizard or warlock? Try the pet classes of conjuror or necro, or swap to the crowd control of a coercer or illusionist if a team requires it instead!

There is already the ability in-game to "remember" a player's old spells and upgrades if they betray from wizard to warlock (or from zerk to guardian, or from fury to warden, etc.)....is it really that much of a stretch to allow for all 6 sub-classes within any given main category to be chosen from instead?

Let's move with the times here-- and that sort of up-and-coming flexibility not only works for the old-timers who just don't feel like slogging through AAs from the ground up yet again, but also for new players so they can feel like they could cover more ground a little faster if they don't like how their initial class choice is panning out as they level.

I hope some red names are peeking in at this thread. Some official feedback would be cool.

Velenda · 05-23-2011, 08:55 PM

Ehhh...No personally I dont want to see any part of Rift seep into EQ2. Actually playing Rift is what brought me back here.

Rift was just far to linear and has to many element from WOW to have any prsiticve influence for EQ2.

I'd hate to see this game become a 'raid or die' gear grind hell. I love EQ2 the way it is. I'd hate to see it lose it's semi-sandbox world and vast open lands.

I can quest for 2 copper if I want to...I dont have to...I can do lots of other things...but if i want to I can. Thats what I love about this game.

gourdon · 05-23-2011, 09:12 PM

Pyrochick@Crushbone wrote:

quite honestly RIFT overall is a wow clone, it is complete easymode, I bought rift upon release and within 10 days I was already at max level cap and get this, I barely even played it, the quest system is extremely easy and boring little to no variation....kill your way thru 500 mobs get to your objective kill your way back out thru the same 500 mobs to turn in quest then get another quest to go right back to the same place u just cleared......to be honest I have absolutely no desire to see rift implemented here in anyway, we already have rifts ala PQ pq's are basically a copy of the rift system lets leave it at that please

The PQs in EQ2 are not that similar to rift events in RIFT. Quite frankly, the PQs in EQ2 are poorly implemented in comparison. If they are the best that SOE can do, then they should probably just give up.

gourdon · 05-23-2011, 09:25 PM

MurFalad wrote:

gourdon wrote:
I was suggesting baby steps like crude environmental status ratings because we aren't going to get player directed storyline in the near future. Further, I'm not sure player directed anything belongs in an MMO, but rather in a single player CRPG.
I'd argue the opposite, the entire point of an MMO was to create a virtual world that we can ultimately influence, many of the game systems we have today are approximations of real world things. Take for example our stats, in the early days there were just five numbers plus one for armour, now we model each different armour peice something that wasn't practical on those computers.
But things do seem to have gone stagnant there after WoW launched, instead of offering a ever more detailed world (that EQ2 advanced from EQ1) it seems that things have become stuck on a very one dimensional hack and slash game for most of the genre and if anything things have gone backwards from EQ1.
Here's another example of a player directed world, how about giving every trader a secret AI, nothing fancy but give them a trait for the sort of unusual goods they might buy with a bigger store. And then make their stores scale up and down depending how often players use their services/how busy the area is + a little bit of randomness, so popular shops grow to have a larger selection, and maybe someone might specialise in harvest goods, rare adornments, or other useful items.
It would be fun then seeing what the NPC's in Castleview hamlet for example are selling that week, instead of knowing that they sell the exactly the same standard list as everyone else, which does cut down on the interest to explore the world.
For a truly dynamic world players do not have to control everything, but they should have an influence on the events that unfold, for example I'd like to see the Qeynos guard trying to erect guard towers around to protect certain sites while the gnolls try to attack those sites with conflicts spawning battles (PQ's) that decide how the map changes. Then the players (Freeport and Qeynos) influence the events by aiding one side or another.

Players influencing the world is more difficult to implement in a multiplayer game because the influence of multiple players has to be taken into account in a world with too small an amount of content to not allow everyone to do everything. This means the world can't change sustantively in response to what any given player does. Single player games are far more advanced with respect to the world responding to player actions. This doesn't mean the environment can't respond, it just is going to have to be more simplistic, consisting of a very small number of world "states".

Your Antonica suggestion matches exactly my Storm Gorge suggestion. It could also be done in the Commonlands between Freeport and the orcs as well. Most importantly, tradeskillers could get involved in fortification building/repair, and there is no reason why there couldn't be Freeport "advisors" coordinating help for the gnolls and vice-versa in the Commonlands.

Econometr · 05-23-2011, 09:45 PM

Atan@Unrest wrote:

What EQ2 could gain from wow?
Dungeon Finder.

YES YES YES

Also, Wow has MUCH better looking trolls.

theriatis · 05-24-2011, 03:56 AM

No Lags. Even with great Numbers of Players in Public Events / Raids. Period.

Kigneer · 05-24-2011, 05:24 AM

thesiren wrote:

Kigneer wrote:
Wouldn't want it unless it's a true multiclass system -- e.g., DDO's version.
Being stuck to builds in a particular class is sub-classing, not multiclassing.
That's all Rift's 9 souls per character are is sub-classing. A Rift Cleric can be any of 9 cleric souls (sub-classes), 3 at a time, in up to 5 different sets of 3 she can switch between at will.
I.E. Cleric souls you can swap between are: Druid, Purifyer, Shaman, Justicar, Warden, Sentinel, Cabalist, Inquisitor, and Templar (a PvP-only soul). Er, not that I have a 50 Cleric there or anything. You can't suddenly become a warrior, mage or rogue/ranger type without rolling a different character with one of those main classes.
And for the record, most other MMORPGs couldn't even begin to allow such a deep range of sub-classing....except for Everquest 2. EQ2 is almost uniquely positioned in this industry for that sort of potential.

If SOE would offer multiclassing with the richness of the AA system, then it'll be perfect for those who love experimenting with builds.

Main problem now is there's too much cookie cutter builds and how folks push them as the "only" build for sub-classes. Instead of playing the way a player wants, they're demanded to play the way of others. It gets old when faced in multiple MMOs. It's also getting old to see the same class tree system being reused (wished RIFT would've made something unique, not remind players of WoW 31 talent point trees...blah).

And the other obstacle is allowing folks to change classes. DDO allows it -- mother of all class systems -- so there's no role/class rule against it, and it just becomes a personal preference, "No, I don't like that!" not "It can't be done as it violates...".

Point is to have fun building unique toons. What I love so much about the EQ2 class system is the depth and "2 sides of the coin" builds of each sub-class, too. It must be a royal PITA to balance, but oh the variety. EQ2 has so much, sooooooo much it's like a hidden jewel, and I hope EQNext brings this class system over and players won't see yet another WoW 31 point class trees.

Be different and unique EQ2!

Kigneer · 05-24-2011, 05:43 AM

Velenda wrote:

I'd hate to see this game become a 'raid or die' gear grind hell. I love EQ2 the way it is. I'd hate to see it lose it's semi-sandbox world and vast open lands.
I can quest for 2 copper if I want to...I dont have to...I can do lots of other things...but if i want to I can. Thats what I love about this game.

Unfortunately, EQ2 like WoW, are dungeon/raid heavy games. They're dictated by that 10% pulling the devs ears, and becomes an exclusion system. In EQ2 it's even worse as that exclusion system can also run server economies. I don't miss that at all in WoW or RIFT.

The beauty of RIFT is you don't even have to step into a dungeon or raid in the game. There's no access barrier with rifts, anyone can join in the fun. Was running with level 45-50s in Stillmoore @ level 32 for example. Couldn't hit anything that low, so switched to healing. Died a few times, but the loot I got for that pain made it worth the risk. If you're willing to take the risks, the rewards await you...not more bars to access. I'm literally sick of artificial barriers that prevents friends/family playing together, the same barriers that turn these classic MMOs into Gearscore junk (skill or ambition doesn't matter, just gear). These are games and games folks play with friends/family and more that seperates them, the more these games aren't fun.

EQ2 and other MMOs could use more public access systems of gameplay. RIFT has it with their rifts, and hope to see other MMOs add something that lives up to the MMO part of MMORPG. Not just living in dungeons and raid zones walled off from the rest of the community.

Rick777 · 05-24-2011, 10:37 AM

Kigneer wrote:

Rick777 wrote:
The graphics, while well touted, seemed very bland and cheap to me, and this is on the absoulte highest graphic setting. So right there I'd say one thing I wouldn't like brought over from Rift is the graphics.
That is true, but EQ2's graphics come at a huge expense -- CPU rendered.
All bells and whistles turned on on this i7 system in Rift get from 52 to 83fps (HD 5970 @ 1920x1080). Extreme settings in EQ2 managed to get to 32fps max (on the GTX 570, haven't been able to login to checked with the HD 5970). It hurts to play EQ2 even on an i7 rig.
Still waiting for any MMO besides EQ2 to have shiny silver appearance armor, though. Matching shiny silver Pally winged helm is a plus (put it on the item store for pete's sake even!).

Yes this is a HUGE achilles heel. It's especially saddening seeing how close they got shader 3.0 then dropped the ball on it 80% done. But it takes a bit less to get EQ2 running than you think. In my spare office I had a q6600 2.4ghz with an ATI x1800 (old card) and I was playing mostly on balanced, while I raided on high performance. I upgraded the CPU to an i5 3.2ghz which I overclocked to 4.0ghz and I can play the game at 1920x1200 in extreme performance I'm around 50-60 fps. It does slow down in major cities and guild halls so I usually play in very high performance and don't notice any slow down there. I raid now in high performace with no slowdown.

Rift on the other hand I was able to completely max out on the q6600, but I was NOT impressed in the least. Character models in particular were quite lacking and lifeless, you won't pry my eq2 character model out of my cold dead hands. Landscape graphics were just ok, seriously if you can do very high performance and up take a long look at eq2's landscapes in different areas, they are just breathtaking. The only game I've seen which was better than eq2 was AOC, and I still think only in terms of scenery, eq2 still has better character models than AOC. I know I'm in the minority here, but Rift graphics really were pretty meh IMO, yes I'm a graphics ho and proud of it.

But to reiterate the CPU dependency is an issue. Keep in mind though that my CPU upgrade with a motherboard cost me less than it would cost to purchase a new high end graphics card, so it's all kind of the same in the end. A GPU might get you more bang for the buck in that you can play other games on it, but it's not like a CPU upgrade isn't something that you will get some mileage out of either. The i5's are pretty cheap right now and well worth getting IMO.

Gorpier · 05-24-2011, 11:25 AM

While I found Rift mildly entertaining for a few weeks, nearly every aspect of it got really old really fast for me. It might be fun to occasionally have a dynamic world event such as the rifts themselves, but I can see it getting really monotonous and irritating if I had to deal with it every time I log in.

Just my two cents, but I'd really be disappointed to see anything from Rift in EQ2. For me that game was just ...'blah'. I'm sure it'll get better. Its less than a year old (6months? I don't even think that long really) and has a ways to go yet. I'm just not a fan of the things that make it 'fun'. To me they spell out long term boredom and irritation.

Velenda · 05-24-2011, 11:49 AM

Kigneer wrote:

Velenda wrote:
I'd hate to see this game become a 'raid or die' gear grind hell. I love EQ2 the way it is. I'd hate to see it lose it's semi-sandbox world and vast open lands.
I can quest for 2 copper if I want to...I dont have to...I can do lots of other things...but if i want to I can. Thats what I love about this game.
Unfortunately, EQ2 like WoW, are dungeon/raid heavy games. They're dictated by that 10% pulling the devs ears, and becomes an exclusion system. In EQ2 it's even worse as that exclusion system can also run server economies. I don't miss that at all in WoW or RIFT.
The beauty of RIFT is you don't even have to step into a dungeon or raid in the game. There's no access barrier with rifts, anyone can join in the fun. Was running with level 45-50s in Stillmoore @ level 32 for example. Couldn't hit anything that low, so switched to healing. Died a few times, but the loot I got for that pain made it worth the risk. If you're willing to take the risks, the rewards await you...not more bars to access. I'm literally sick of artificial barriers that prevents friends/family playing together, the same barriers that turn these classic MMOs into Gearscore junk (skill or ambition doesn't matter, just gear). These are games and games folks play with friends/family and more that seperates them, the more these games aren't fun.
EQ2 and other MMOs could use more public access systems of gameplay. RIFT has it with their rifts, and hope to see other MMOs add something that lives up to the MMO part of MMORPG. Not just living in dungeons and raid zones walled off from the rest of the community.

Not exactly. Yes EQ2 has it's raids and instaces but I don't ever have to touch them if i don't want to. There are so many overland quests to do, and exploring to, that the end game is irrelavent to me. I can have one toon that just decorates his house, or crafts, or kills crabs (and to me it never gets old). To me thats the beauty of EQ2.

Now your right about WOW, and it certantly is a game thats nailed it'self to the 'top 10%', and seemes to regard the leveling crowd as chattle. It's also obsessed with Gear Score and gear iLevel to the extent that it makes the game into a 'job' or constant competition.

I don't see that in EQ2. No one laughs at my crafted gear. No one mocks my lack of achievements. If I want to find folks to run a public duengion or instace plenty of folks are happy to help out...or mentor down,and help out. That dosent 'really' happen in WOW....atleast not anymore.

What I was getting it was that while Rift does have some bones thrown to the non-raider it still has the content lockouts that WOW has. However Rift lacks the content to keep an exporer happy. You level too fast...way to fast...and that leaves you with just the endgame. Yes the rifts are good but they do get tiresome eventually. There just isnt enough to keep an exploer happy.

Also no player housing.

PS: Sorry for the ramble...I just can't seem to make my point without going onand on...sorry. >_<

Oxie · 05-24-2011, 12:22 PM

Trion just recently announced free server transfers. In light of the hack that happened with our SOE accounts, this would be a major boost for raiding guilds who are trying recruit and fill in the blanks after people quit/left the guild after the 2 week shut down. (Yeah, I know they recently dropped the price down to $17.50 instead of $25.) Doing a 1 day freebie doesn't help someone who moves to a new server to try out a guild, only to find that it is not a good fit for them.

Elwin · 05-24-2011, 08:01 PM

Ruckus@Unrest wrote:

Trion just recently announced free server transfers. In light of the hack that happened with our SOE accounts, this would be a major boost for raiding guilds who are trying recruit and fill in the blanks after people quit/left the guild after the 2 week shut down. (Yeah, I know they recently dropped the price down to $17.50 instead of $25.) Doing a 1 day freebie doesn't help someone who moves to a new server to try out a guild, only to find that it is not a good fit for them.

It's one free transfer, once per week.

It would be a very good time for EQ to introduce something like this while the dust settles.

Oxie · 05-24-2011, 08:18 PM

Baubo@Unrest wrote:

Ruckus@Unrest wrote:
Trion just recently announced free server transfers. In light of the hack that happened with our SOE accounts, this would be a major boost for raiding guilds who are trying recruit and fill in the blanks after people quit/left the guild after the 2 week shut down. (Yeah, I know they recently dropped the price down to $17.50 instead of $25.) Doing a 1 day freebie doesn't help someone who moves to a new server to try out a guild, only to find that it is not a good fit for them.
It's one free transfer, once per week.
It would be a very good time for EQ to introduce something like this while the dust settles.

Yeah. I was at work when I posted, and didn't have time to go into more detail. I almost copy/pasted the entire statement that Trion put out, but then figured my post would have been deleted.

05-23-2011, 11:32 AM	#32
agnott Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 710	Rick777 wrote: Oh I've also gotta add, I NEVER want to see a global cooldown timer in eq2, god please no. I've never experienced something that took me out of the game as much as a GCD, looking at my hotbars all the time to know which spell to cast next is one thing as you usually build up a rhythym, but having to constantly just sit there and wait for the GCD to refresh after each and EVERY freakin spell cast just killed me with boredom one second at a time. eq2 just seems to much more fluid and dynamic because it doesn't have a GCD. Reminds me of the old EQ1 waiting to get my mana back. I could send out 3 invoices for my company for every mana downtime.

05-23-2011, 11:53 AM	#33
Rijacki Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,842	Baubo@Unrest wrote: A button comes up 'Join Public Group'. You either press it or you don't. Simple. I think it would be a good idea for PQ's. This is one thing I would look at "importing" were I a developer on EQ2. During the SOE down time, my boyfriend and I played a week trial in Rift. The one thing I liked in Rift 'better' than EQ2 is the ease in joining a public group and leaving it. There was no need to beg for an invite, not knowing who to ask, needing to de-group to get invited in to the raid. etc. Leaving one, too, was exceptionally simple. We did several of the small rifts in the low level area (got to 15 by the weeks end.. playing -very- casually) and never once had to drop our duo to join a public group to take down a rift and leaving it didn't cause our duo to change either. We slipped in and out with nary a bump. While, in some ways, I like the 'skinning' of dead animals in Rift (and Vanguard) as the harvest for hides, I remember back to the days in EQ1 where the only way to raise some tradeskills at all was by the happenstance of obtaining the materials while adventuring. It wasn't possible to be a high 'skilled' crafter without either being an adventurer or obtaining the materials from adventurers. SWG pre-NGE (dunno now) and EQ2 are the only two games I've played where it has been 100% viable to have a playstyle solely focused on crafting and be mostly (or even entirely) self-sufficient and not have to rely on adventuring to raise skill in crafting. I'd love to see 'special' crafting have something like the skinning in Vanguard/Rift but not for it to be the only way. __________________

05-23-2011, 04:21 PM	#35
Loldawg Server: Nagafen Guild: Onyx Rank: Recruits Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 253	Loved: Ease of public grouping. AOE looting. AA specs that can be changed on the fly - that literally let you be an entirely different sub-class - awesome. Hated: Global cool downs Overall lack of complexity Slow feeling of combat and character movement (I had a 65% mount) __________________

05-23-2011, 04:44 PM	#36
Econometr General Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 113	Mirrian wrote: I hate to say it but the populations of eq2 along with the massive size of the 'world' would make anything remotely like Rift impossible..so a rift opens up...90% of the time nobody is even going to be near it and if you do happen to be there, you will most likely be the only one there..and soloing (or trying to) a rift isn't a fun thing. I agree with the other poster on the class system..too many classes and half of them either to general to be useful or too specific to a given task. I do like the ability to have several roles available...that is, to me, the saving grace of the class system they have, if you level up and find you don't like the play style, you can change it..up to a point at least, you only get 4 roles, but that should in most cases, be enough. The graphics are really nice, the tradeskills are a joke..kinda like the classes..way too many and very hard to figure out which one does what, just look on the broker and they have a couple sub level 10 items and all the rest level 50. There are some things I really like, but looking at the whole thing I think there's a lot more Rift could gain from eq2 than the other way around. A lot more. Several of the RIFT classes are too specialized. I question whether they can function on their own or exist only to serve as secondary (or tertiary) callings. Examples include the voidknight, archon, and riftstalker. The warlock in EQ2 is also highly specialized but works well when the encounter mechanic is used liberally in an expansion. Enchanters are also specialized in that they focus heavily on CC. However, they can serve multiple roles (e.g., buff dps/healer, restore mana). In my opinion, EQ2 has a much better class system than RIFT (or WoW, for that matter). With a few notable exceptions (e.g., enchanters in SF), the classes in EQ2 are well balanced. Players are not confronted with constant class changes due to PVE/PVP imbalances.

05-23-2011, 05:02 PM	#37
Kigneer Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,462	Rick777 wrote: The graphics, while well touted, seemed very bland and cheap to me, and this is on the absoulte highest graphic setting. So right there I'd say one thing I wouldn't like brought over from Rift is the graphics. That is true, but EQ2's graphics come at a huge expense -- CPU rendered. All bells and whistles turned on on this i7 system in Rift get from 52 to 83fps (HD 5970 @ 1920x1080). Extreme settings in EQ2 managed to get to 32fps max (on the GTX 570, haven't been able to login to checked with the HD 5970). It hurts to play EQ2 even on an i7 rig. Still waiting for any MMO besides EQ2 to have shiny silver appearance armor, though. Matching shiny silver Pally winged helm is a plus (put it on the item store for pete's sake even!). __________________ The "have nots" will always point what the "haves" have. Harmony is reached when both sides have their *needs* met.

05-23-2011, 10:30 AM	#31
Rick777 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 720	Oh I've also gotta add, I NEVER want to see a global cooldown timer in eq2, god please no. I've never experienced something that took me out of the game as much as a GCD, looking at my hotbars all the time to know which spell to cast next is one thing as you usually build up a rhythym, but having to constantly just sit there and wait for the GCD to refresh after each and EVERY freakin spell cast just killed me with boredom one second at a time. eq2 just seems to much more fluid and dynamic because it doesn't have a GCD.

05-23-2011, 03:40 PM	#34
Anastasie Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 850	AOE looting - love this feature from rift - so you don't have to click every nearby corpse. Auto Bag Swapping - put a larger bag in your inventory/bank slot and the contents automatically move into the larger container. Quest Clickies on the quest helper - this is very nice Out-of-Combat spec swapping - eq2 could use a pocket mirror for spec swapping. Vendor grey trash loot w/ one click Armor Dye (They are also adding free server transfers - limited to once per week)

05-23-2011, 05:24 PM	#38
gourdon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 632	I'm surprised at how many people have commented on the class system in RIFT. It seems extremely unlikely that EQ2 is going to restructure the entire AA and class system. __________________

05-23-2011, 05:36 PM	#39
gourdon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 632	MurFalad wrote: The question could as well have been "What aspects of WoW" since apart from the rifts every other feature of that game has been slavishly copied from WoW with the intention of attracting WoW players, even their latest campaign aludes to WoW again. gourdon wrote: Undoubtedly, some of the developers have played RIFT and have their opinions about how to make Norrath more dynamic, but our input might help them. Well I think Smedley did check it out since in a January 18th Interview he said "One thing that we've learned over our company's history is that it takes time to make great games. And we're not trying to make cookie-cutter MMOs. There's some stuff coming out in the next two or three months, MMO-wise, and a lot of it is generic copycats of other games. That's not what we want to do." gourdon wrote: Good: When the invaders show up, they are all over the place and kill all of the other mobs in the area. This disrupts the ability to do quests, but is an important part of the event. The battles in Storm Gorge could use a little more of an open ended flavor with a less focused battle occurring with less focus on winning the battle and more on defeating objectives to help the Cold Dain (or the Rime). This would require going to tokens instead of equipment for rewards. Since there is only one new feature in that MMO (the multi class system I believe is bad for future playability and the RPG core of a MMO) and that's rifts I'll throw in my comments. 1) They're not really dynamic, because like every other MMO out there the players do not direct the action, instead they respond to it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, that sort of gameplay is clearly fun as EQ2, WoW etc shows, but if someone wanted to do something new and interesting then having the players direct how events and the world changes would be exciting. 2) Which leads me onto my second point, the world doesn't change. In essence they are no more then slightly more complex ring events, something happens (this time not activated by a player), the player responds, the event ends, nothing changes. Why not have towns switch allegance depending on how the battle goes? This could open up and close down questing/dungeon options, a more dynamic world. Why not have towns and buildings destroyed meaning that the world changes, and then have the ability for crafters to come in and rebuild, maybe in their own image in a little way (e.g. touches of Fae architecture)? In essence I'd like to see something where the players direct the storyline with every action effecting the world (even if in only a tiny way), in a way this happens in Planetside, there are no need for quests to be given out, but simply capturing/upgrading/combat engineering and resupplying buildings does alter the map at least a little, although this is of course for PVP only. The storytelling that can be done by then adding in NPCs to fight against and alongside I think would be good fun. As for the graphics engine, I think Eve is the inspiration of how things could be done with EQ2, there they have revamped it a few times and even phased out support for shader 1 and shader 2 since they are too old now. My undoubtedly comment comes from the fact that I don't pay attention to Smed, but it is predicatable that he has played RIFT. When something changes, it is dynamic. The events in RIFT are dynamic. There is no permanent world change, but that isn't necessary to be dynamic. They are just a fancy ring event that kicks off based upon timing and player proximity factors rather than the death of a static mob. I was suggesting baby steps like crude environmental status ratings because we aren't going to get player directed storyline in the near future. Further, I'm not sure player directed anything belongs in an MMO, but rather in a single player CRPG. __________________

05-23-2011, 05:40 PM	#40
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	What EQ2 could gain from rift? The soulstone concept. In that I can within seconds swap between any scout type with a pre-built AA build fo each given scout. I can run my ranger soul out doing some solo content and in 10 seconds I can be a dirge for a PuG thats forming up. Rift has more than demonstrated players are indeed smart enough to change roles/classes that quickly and still be effective. SoE should learn from this as the idea that I need to re-roll 6 scouts to fill any possible scout roll as needed is no longer a great design. The generalizing of gear and stats has made the viability of this swapping even more viable. My gear migh be based upon being the best Ranger around, but that same gear will still do ok as a bard. What EQ2 could gain from wow? Dungeon Finder. It has its plus and minuses, but the ability to within minutes find a group (cross server) and begin working a mission vs the very manual process that exists in EQ2 is a significant bonus for players. It has social implications, but the good out weighs the bad. What EQ2 could gain from several titles? AoE looting. I really don't need to click 20 corpses I just AoE'd to the ground. __________________

05-23-2011, 05:45 PM	#41
Talathion Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Cladire Mortii Rank: Initiate/Slave Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,780	RIFT combat is boring and puts me to sleep. You move to slow in battle, combat is slow. Global Cooldowns are fail. (LOL you have to wait 1.5 seconds to do an ability)

05-23-2011, 06:34 PM	#42
Rijacki Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,842	One thing I definately would not want EQ2 to "gain" from Rift (or any other game where it is found), quest 'objects' that have to be looted/picked up on -every- quest without any virtual updates at all. Requirements to keep a lot of stuff in your personal inventory + limited inventory space = torment of the 9th circle of hell (at least in my opinion). Plus, with the "click from the quest journal to activate widget", why does Rift need to have quest widgets get dropped into your bags (limited inventory again)? While I found the "click from journal" to be handy, it seemed redundant and a bit backward because the object thing. __________________

05-23-2011, 08:04 PM	#43
Elwin Server: Venekor Guild: Blades of Honor Rank: Master Blade Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 659	Failathion@Nagafen wrote: RIFT combat is boring and puts me to sleep. You move to slow in battle, combat is slow. Global Cooldowns are fail. (LOL you have to wait 1.5 seconds to do an ability) Warrior: 1.2 Seconds Cleric: 1 Second Rogue: 0.5 Seconds Mage: 1 Second They are the cool down times, a lot of abilities have no GCD at all.

05-23-2011, 08:06 PM	#44
Kigneer Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,462	gourdon wrote: I'm surprised at how many people have commented on the class system in RIFT. It seems extremely unlikely that EQ2 is going to restructure the entire AA and class system. Wouldn't want it unless it's a true multiclass system -- e.g., DDO's version. Being stuck to builds in a particular class is sub-classing, not multiclassing. __________________ The "have nots" will always point what the "haves" have. Harmony is reached when both sides have their *needs* met.

05-23-2011, 08:09 PM	#45
Pyrochick Server: Crushbone Guild: Sacrament Rank: Leader Lord Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 81	quite honestly RIFT overall is a wow clone, it is complete easymode, I bought rift upon release and within 10 days I was already at max level cap and get this, I barely even played it, the quest system is extremely easy and boring little to no variation....kill your way thru 500 mobs get to your objective kill your way back out thru the same 500 mobs to turn in quest then get another quest to go right back to the same place u just cleared......to be honest I have absolutely no desire to see rift implemented here in anyway, we already have rifts ala PQ pq's are basically a copy of the rift system lets leave it at that please

05-23-2011, 08:26 PM	#46
MurFalad Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Tonbridge, UK Posts: 1,360	gourdon wrote: I was suggesting baby steps like crude environmental status ratings because we aren't going to get player directed storyline in the near future. Further, I'm not sure player directed anything belongs in an MMO, but rather in a single player CRPG. I'd argue the opposite, the entire point of an MMO was to create a virtual world that we can ultimately influence, many of the game systems we have today are approximations of real world things. Take for example our stats, in the early days there were just five numbers plus one for armour, now we model each different armour peice something that wasn't practical on those computers. But things do seem to have gone stagnant there after WoW launched, instead of offering a ever more detailed world (that EQ2 advanced from EQ1) it seems that things have become stuck on a very one dimensional hack and slash game for most of the genre and if anything things have gone backwards from EQ1. Here's another example of a player directed world, how about giving every trader a secret AI, nothing fancy but give them a trait for the sort of unusual goods they might buy with a bigger store. And then make their stores scale up and down depending how often players use their services/how busy the area is + a little bit of randomness, so popular shops grow to have a larger selection, and maybe someone might specialise in harvest goods, rare adornments, or other useful items. It would be fun then seeing what the NPC's in Castleview hamlet for example are selling that week, instead of knowing that they sell the exactly the same standard list as everyone else, which does cut down on the interest to explore the world. For a truly dynamic world players do not have to control everything, but they should have an influence on the events that unfold, for example I'd like to see the Qeynos guard trying to erect guard towers around to protect certain sites while the gnolls try to attack those sites with conflicts spawning battles (PQ's) that decide how the map changes. Then the players (Freeport and Qeynos) influence the events by aiding one side or another.

05-23-2011, 08:52 PM	#47
thesiren Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 697	Kigneer wrote: Wouldn't want it unless it's a true multiclass system -- e.g., DDO's version. Being stuck to builds in a particular class is sub-classing, not multiclassing. That's all Rift's 9 souls per character are is sub-classing. A Rift Cleric can be any of 9 cleric souls (sub-classes), 3 at a time, in up to 5 different sets of 3 she can switch between at will. I.E. Cleric souls you can swap between are: Druid, Purifyer, Shaman, Justicar, Warden, Sentinel, Cabalist, Inquisitor, and Templar (a PvP-only soul). Er, not that I have a 50 Cleric there or anything. You can't suddenly become a warrior, mage or rogue/ranger type without rolling a different character with one of those main classes. And for the record, most other MMORPGs couldn't even begin to allow such a deep range of sub-classing....except for Everquest 2. EQ2 is almost uniquely positioned in this industry for that sort of potential. And imagine what a come-back offer that would be for old retirees, with a draw even for new players! Build up your AAs and gear and keep it, even if you want to swap out sub-classes within your main class! Not crazy about the wizard or warlock? Try the pet classes of conjuror or necro, or swap to the crowd control of a coercer or illusionist if a team requires it instead! There is already the ability in-game to "remember" a player's old spells and upgrades if they betray from wizard to warlock (or from zerk to guardian, or from fury to warden, etc.)....is it really that much of a stretch to allow for all 6 sub-classes within any given main category to be chosen from instead? Let's move with the times here-- and that sort of up-and-coming flexibility not only works for the old-timers who just don't feel like slogging through AAs from the ground up yet again, but also for new players so they can feel like they could cover more ground a little faster if they don't like how their initial class choice is panning out as they level. I hope some red names are peeking in at this thread. Some official feedback would be cool.

05-23-2011, 08:55 PM	#48
Velenda Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 317	Ehhh...No personally I dont want to see any part of Rift seep into EQ2. Actually playing Rift is what brought me back here. Rift was just far to linear and has to many element from WOW to have any prsiticve influence for EQ2. I'd hate to see this game become a 'raid or die' gear grind hell. I love EQ2 the way it is. I'd hate to see it lose it's semi-sandbox world and vast open lands. I can quest for 2 copper if I want to...I dont have to...I can do lots of other things...but if i want to I can. Thats what I love about this game.

05-23-2011, 09:12 PM	#49
gourdon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 632	Pyrochick@Crushbone wrote: quite honestly RIFT overall is a wow clone, it is complete easymode, I bought rift upon release and within 10 days I was already at max level cap and get this, I barely even played it, the quest system is extremely easy and boring little to no variation....kill your way thru 500 mobs get to your objective kill your way back out thru the same 500 mobs to turn in quest then get another quest to go right back to the same place u just cleared......to be honest I have absolutely no desire to see rift implemented here in anyway, we already have rifts ala PQ pq's are basically a copy of the rift system lets leave it at that please The PQs in EQ2 are not that similar to rift events in RIFT. Quite frankly, the PQs in EQ2 are poorly implemented in comparison. If they are the best that SOE can do, then they should probably just give up. __________________

05-23-2011, 09:25 PM	#50
gourdon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 632	MurFalad wrote: gourdon wrote: I was suggesting baby steps like crude environmental status ratings because we aren't going to get player directed storyline in the near future. Further, I'm not sure player directed anything belongs in an MMO, but rather in a single player CRPG. I'd argue the opposite, the entire point of an MMO was to create a virtual world that we can ultimately influence, many of the game systems we have today are approximations of real world things. Take for example our stats, in the early days there were just five numbers plus one for armour, now we model each different armour peice something that wasn't practical on those computers. But things do seem to have gone stagnant there after WoW launched, instead of offering a ever more detailed world (that EQ2 advanced from EQ1) it seems that things have become stuck on a very one dimensional hack and slash game for most of the genre and if anything things have gone backwards from EQ1. Here's another example of a player directed world, how about giving every trader a secret AI, nothing fancy but give them a trait for the sort of unusual goods they might buy with a bigger store. And then make their stores scale up and down depending how often players use their services/how busy the area is + a little bit of randomness, so popular shops grow to have a larger selection, and maybe someone might specialise in harvest goods, rare adornments, or other useful items. It would be fun then seeing what the NPC's in Castleview hamlet for example are selling that week, instead of knowing that they sell the exactly the same standard list as everyone else, which does cut down on the interest to explore the world. For a truly dynamic world players do not have to control everything, but they should have an influence on the events that unfold, for example I'd like to see the Qeynos guard trying to erect guard towers around to protect certain sites while the gnolls try to attack those sites with conflicts spawning battles (PQ's) that decide how the map changes. Then the players (Freeport and Qeynos) influence the events by aiding one side or another. Players influencing the world is more difficult to implement in a multiplayer game because the influence of multiple players has to be taken into account in a world with too small an amount of content to not allow everyone to do everything. This means the world can't change sustantively in response to what any given player does. Single player games are far more advanced with respect to the world responding to player actions. This doesn't mean the environment can't respond, it just is going to have to be more simplistic, consisting of a very small number of world "states". Your Antonica suggestion matches exactly my Storm Gorge suggestion. It could also be done in the Commonlands between Freeport and the orcs as well. Most importantly, tradeskillers could get involved in fortification building/repair, and there is no reason why there couldn't be Freeport "advisors" coordinating help for the gnolls and vice-versa in the Commonlands. __________________

05-23-2011, 09:45 PM	#51
Econometr General Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 113	Atan@Unrest wrote: What EQ2 could gain from wow? Dungeon Finder. YES YES YES Also, Wow has MUCH better looking trolls.

05-24-2011, 03:56 AM	#52
theriatis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 927	No Lags. Even with great Numbers of Players in Public Events / Raids. Period. __________________ If you're laughing at my (english) grammar, just try writing in my language; i need a good laugh now and then, too

05-24-2011, 05:24 AM	#53
Kigneer Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,462	thesiren wrote: Kigneer wrote: Wouldn't want it unless it's a true multiclass system -- e.g., DDO's version. Being stuck to builds in a particular class is sub-classing, not multiclassing. That's all Rift's 9 souls per character are is sub-classing. A Rift Cleric can be any of 9 cleric souls (sub-classes), 3 at a time, in up to 5 different sets of 3 she can switch between at will. I.E. Cleric souls you can swap between are: Druid, Purifyer, Shaman, Justicar, Warden, Sentinel, Cabalist, Inquisitor, and Templar (a PvP-only soul). Er, not that I have a 50 Cleric there or anything. You can't suddenly become a warrior, mage or rogue/ranger type without rolling a different character with one of those main classes. And for the record, most other MMORPGs couldn't even begin to allow such a deep range of sub-classing....except for Everquest 2. EQ2 is almost uniquely positioned in this industry for that sort of potential. If SOE would offer multiclassing with the richness of the AA system, then it'll be perfect for those who love experimenting with builds. Main problem now is there's too much cookie cutter builds and how folks push them as the "only" build for sub-classes. Instead of playing the way a player wants, they're demanded to play the way of others. It gets old when faced in multiple MMOs. It's also getting old to see the same class tree system being reused (wished RIFT would've made something unique, not remind players of WoW 31 talent point trees...blah). And the other obstacle is allowing folks to change classes. DDO allows it -- mother of all class systems -- so there's no role/class rule against it, and it just becomes a personal preference, "No, I don't like that!" not "It can't be done as it violates...". Point is to have fun building unique toons. What I love so much about the EQ2 class system is the depth and "2 sides of the coin" builds of each sub-class, too. It must be a royal PITA to balance, but oh the variety. EQ2 has so much, sooooooo much it's like a hidden jewel, and I hope EQNext brings this class system over and players won't see yet another WoW 31 point class trees. Be different and unique EQ2! __________________ The "have nots" will always point what the "haves" have. Harmony is reached when both sides have their *needs* met.

05-24-2011, 05:43 AM	#54
Kigneer Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,462	Velenda wrote: I'd hate to see this game become a 'raid or die' gear grind hell. I love EQ2 the way it is. I'd hate to see it lose it's semi-sandbox world and vast open lands. I can quest for 2 copper if I want to...I dont have to...I can do lots of other things...but if i want to I can. Thats what I love about this game. Unfortunately, EQ2 like WoW, are dungeon/raid heavy games. They're dictated by that 10% pulling the devs ears, and becomes an exclusion system. In EQ2 it's even worse as that exclusion system can also run server economies. I don't miss that at all in WoW or RIFT. The beauty of RIFT is you don't even have to step into a dungeon or raid in the game. There's no access barrier with rifts, anyone can join in the fun. Was running with level 45-50s in Stillmoore @ level 32 for example. Couldn't hit anything that low, so switched to healing. Died a few times, but the loot I got for that pain made it worth the risk. If you're willing to take the risks, the rewards await you...not more bars to access. I'm literally sick of artificial barriers that prevents friends/family playing together, the same barriers that turn these classic MMOs into Gearscore junk (skill or ambition doesn't matter, just gear). These are games and games folks play with friends/family and more that seperates them, the more these games aren't fun. EQ2 and other MMOs could use more public access systems of gameplay. RIFT has it with their rifts, and hope to see other MMOs add something that lives up to the MMO part of MMORPG. Not just living in dungeons and raid zones walled off from the rest of the community. __________________ The "have nots" will always point what the "haves" have. Harmony is reached when both sides have their *needs* met.

05-24-2011, 10:37 AM	#55
Rick777 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 720	Kigneer wrote: Rick777 wrote: The graphics, while well touted, seemed very bland and cheap to me, and this is on the absoulte highest graphic setting. So right there I'd say one thing I wouldn't like brought over from Rift is the graphics. That is true, but EQ2's graphics come at a huge expense -- CPU rendered. All bells and whistles turned on on this i7 system in Rift get from 52 to 83fps (HD 5970 @ 1920x1080). Extreme settings in EQ2 managed to get to 32fps max (on the GTX 570, haven't been able to login to checked with the HD 5970). It hurts to play EQ2 even on an i7 rig. Still waiting for any MMO besides EQ2 to have shiny silver appearance armor, though. Matching shiny silver Pally winged helm is a plus (put it on the item store for pete's sake even!). Yes this is a HUGE achilles heel. It's especially saddening seeing how close they got shader 3.0 then dropped the ball on it 80% done. But it takes a bit less to get EQ2 running than you think. In my spare office I had a q6600 2.4ghz with an ATI x1800 (old card) and I was playing mostly on balanced, while I raided on high performance. I upgraded the CPU to an i5 3.2ghz which I overclocked to 4.0ghz and I can play the game at 1920x1200 in extreme performance I'm around 50-60 fps. It does slow down in major cities and guild halls so I usually play in very high performance and don't notice any slow down there. I raid now in high performace with no slowdown. Rift on the other hand I was able to completely max out on the q6600, but I was NOT impressed in the least. Character models in particular were quite lacking and lifeless, you won't pry my eq2 character model out of my cold dead hands. Landscape graphics were just ok, seriously if you can do very high performance and up take a long look at eq2's landscapes in different areas, they are just breathtaking. The only game I've seen which was better than eq2 was AOC, and I still think only in terms of scenery, eq2 still has better character models than AOC. I know I'm in the minority here, but Rift graphics really were pretty meh IMO, yes I'm a graphics ho and proud of it. But to reiterate the CPU dependency is an issue. Keep in mind though that my CPU upgrade with a motherboard cost me less than it would cost to purchase a new high end graphics card, so it's all kind of the same in the end. A GPU might get you more bang for the buck in that you can play other games on it, but it's not like a CPU upgrade isn't something that you will get some mileage out of either. The i5's are pretty cheap right now and well worth getting IMO.

05-24-2011, 11:25 AM	#56
Gorpier Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: USA Posts: 320	While I found Rift mildly entertaining for a few weeks, nearly every aspect of it got really old really fast for me. It might be fun to occasionally have a dynamic world event such as the rifts themselves, but I can see it getting really monotonous and irritating if I had to deal with it every time I log in. Just my two cents, but I'd really be disappointed to see anything from Rift in EQ2. For me that game was just ...'blah'. I'm sure it'll get better. Its less than a year old (6months? I don't even think that long really) and has a ways to go yet. I'm just not a fan of the things that make it 'fun'. To me they spell out long term boredom and irritation. __________________

05-24-2011, 11:49 AM	#57
Velenda Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 317	Kigneer wrote: Velenda wrote: I'd hate to see this game become a 'raid or die' gear grind hell. I love EQ2 the way it is. I'd hate to see it lose it's semi-sandbox world and vast open lands. I can quest for 2 copper if I want to...I dont have to...I can do lots of other things...but if i want to I can. Thats what I love about this game. Unfortunately, EQ2 like WoW, are dungeon/raid heavy games. They're dictated by that 10% pulling the devs ears, and becomes an exclusion system. In EQ2 it's even worse as that exclusion system can also run server economies. I don't miss that at all in WoW or RIFT. The beauty of RIFT is you don't even have to step into a dungeon or raid in the game. There's no access barrier with rifts, anyone can join in the fun. Was running with level 45-50s in Stillmoore @ level 32 for example. Couldn't hit anything that low, so switched to healing. Died a few times, but the loot I got for that pain made it worth the risk. If you're willing to take the risks, the rewards await you...not more bars to access. I'm literally sick of artificial barriers that prevents friends/family playing together, the same barriers that turn these classic MMOs into Gearscore junk (skill or ambition doesn't matter, just gear). These are games and games folks play with friends/family and more that seperates them, the more these games aren't fun. EQ2 and other MMOs could use more public access systems of gameplay. RIFT has it with their rifts, and hope to see other MMOs add something that lives up to the MMO part of MMORPG. Not just living in dungeons and raid zones walled off from the rest of the community. Not exactly. Yes EQ2 has it's raids and instaces but I don't ever have to touch them if i don't want to. There are so many overland quests to do, and exploring to, that the end game is irrelavent to me. I can have one toon that just decorates his house, or crafts, or kills crabs (and to me it never gets old). To me thats the beauty of EQ2. Now your right about WOW, and it certantly is a game thats nailed it'self to the 'top 10%', and seemes to regard the leveling crowd as chattle. It's also obsessed with Gear Score and gear iLevel to the extent that it makes the game into a 'job' or constant competition. I don't see that in EQ2. No one laughs at my crafted gear. No one mocks my lack of achievements. If I want to find folks to run a public duengion or instace plenty of folks are happy to help out...or mentor down,and help out. That dosent 'really' happen in WOW....atleast not anymore. What I was getting it was that while Rift does have some bones thrown to the non-raider it still has the content lockouts that WOW has. However Rift lacks the content to keep an exporer happy. You level too fast...way to fast...and that leaves you with just the endgame. Yes the rifts are good but they do get tiresome eventually. There just isnt enough to keep an exploer happy. Also no player housing. PS: Sorry for the ramble...I just can't seem to make my point without going onand on...sorry. >_<

05-24-2011, 12:22 PM	#58
Oxie Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 649	Trion just recently announced free server transfers. In light of the hack that happened with our SOE accounts, this would be a major boost for raiding guilds who are trying recruit and fill in the blanks after people quit/left the guild after the 2 week shut down. (Yeah, I know they recently dropped the price down to $17.50 instead of $25.) Doing a 1 day freebie doesn't help someone who moves to a new server to try out a guild, only to find that it is not a good fit for them.

05-24-2011, 08:01 PM	#59
Elwin Server: Venekor Guild: Blades of Honor Rank: Master Blade Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 659	Ruckus@Unrest wrote: Trion just recently announced free server transfers. In light of the hack that happened with our SOE accounts, this would be a major boost for raiding guilds who are trying recruit and fill in the blanks after people quit/left the guild after the 2 week shut down. (Yeah, I know they recently dropped the price down to $17.50 instead of $25.) Doing a 1 day freebie doesn't help someone who moves to a new server to try out a guild, only to find that it is not a good fit for them. It's one free transfer, once per week. It would be a very good time for EQ to introduce something like this while the dust settles.

05-24-2011, 08:18 PM	#60
Oxie Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 649	Baubo@Unrest wrote: Ruckus@Unrest wrote: Trion just recently announced free server transfers. In light of the hack that happened with our SOE accounts, this would be a major boost for raiding guilds who are trying recruit and fill in the blanks after people quit/left the guild after the 2 week shut down. (Yeah, I know they recently dropped the price down to $17.50 instead of $25.) Doing a 1 day freebie doesn't help someone who moves to a new server to try out a guild, only to find that it is not a good fit for them. It's one free transfer, once per week. It would be a very good time for EQ to introduce something like this while the dust settles. Yeah. I was at work when I posted, and didn't have time to go into more detail. I almost copy/pasted the entire statement that Trion put out, but then figured my post would have been deleted.