New Marketplace Item: Guild Rename Potion

[Yimway]

Asif wrote:

Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:

The price for these is beyond excessive.  I honestly don't care what the rationale of the team was; it boils down to greed, and nothing more, as far as I'm concerned.

I so agree with you no need for that much money its just a grab as usual.

Its to discourage the sale of existing guilds.

Why form a guild, when you can buy a level 90 one with ingame plat and rename it?

I figured I'd level a guild "This space for sale" just to see what I could get for it once this potion went live.

[Aerfen]

Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:

For those complaining about the price of the Guild Rename Potion ..

Consider this .. it's $15.00 per Personal Name Change (Potion of Amnesia).  It takes (6) players to form a Guild, regardless of whether or not they stay in said Guild. 

If they (SOE) had applied that logic, which frankly I expected them to, they would have made the price of this Potion to be $90.  That's 6 x $15 = $90.  Instead it's $55.00, that's a savings of $35.00.  Buy SC during Bonus Days and you'd save even more. 

You don't like the price .. Then obviously you don't want it enough.  *shrug*

Me, personally, I had actually considered bribing a SOE offical with $1000 for a name change several years ago.  I didn't, obviously, it was just a thought but it underlines how much I wanted to change my Guild's name and I did consider starting from scratch but wasn't wanting to 'pay' that price.  

I'm sick as a dog, as the saying goes, I haven't played EQ2 since I got sick a couple days ago & haven't even felt the desire to since sitting at the computer too long is making me nauseous and yet I logged on to the game about 1 hour (or so) after I read this yesterday to purchase it and change my Guild name. It was the only thing I logged on for.

I was very happy to get rid of the old tag along with its history, which isn't horrible or anything I just didn't want to be associated with it anymore since it wasn't 'that' guild, anymore. 

To me the price is worth it and cheap at that!

I'm with you on this one.  I was expecting the price to be much higher to be honest, especially considering the price for a single character name change.

The only part of this that I'm frustrated with was that we petitioned for a name change over 2 years ago and were told it wasn't possible, though considering how many guilds got their names changed for being in violation, we knew SOE wasn't being completely honest.  

Oh well, we've got the SC points to do this, and are in the process of choosing our new name!!  Woot!

[Neiloch]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Asif wrote:

Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:

The price for these is beyond excessive.  I honestly don't care what the rationale of the team was; it boils down to greed, and nothing more, as far as I'm concerned.

I so agree with you no need for that much money its just a grab as usual.

Its to discourage the sale of existing guilds.

Why form a guild, when you can buy a level 90 one with ingame plat and rename it?

I figured I'd level a guild "This space for sale" just to see what I could get for it once this potion went live.

'In game plat' being generous hehe. Guild name is a lot more of of a guilds 'essence' than a character name imo. Guild name change being possible on a player level like this makes it a much higher candidate for unsanctioned RMT'ing. I imagine people would pay a lot more than plat for a level 90 guild when you can change the name, hence the price point. If someone did do it, they will have to pay the price for the potion on top of what ever 'fee' they get charged for the guild itself.

Guilds pay for voice chat and sometimes GC servers every month. Sure they can pitch in and swing a one time name change.

[Senya]

I see the reasoning behind it I suppose, but, again, just in my opinion, it's over priced.  If it was priced that way to intentionally sell less and avoid abuse, kudos to SOE for putting their principles ahead of the monetary gain.  If they were testing the waters to see what the market will bear on them, well.. I have to think they are overshooting it a bit if they want to make the most sales and highest profit since I'm sure there are plenty of people like me out there who don't hate the guild name, but don't exactly love it either. 

[Tuatha]

Rijacki wrote:

Tuatha@Splitpaw wrote:

Calthine wrote:

It wasn't a pack of lies.  The game has been out 5 1/2 years now and only now has this become available. 

The potion has become available now, yes...However, if you reread the post, Yaskel was told by SOE that it couldn't be done, when technically they could have done it for their guild back then too (just without making $55 from it, of course) - and I know of at least one guild on Guk which had its name changed by SOE years ago (because La Cosa Nostra was not too popular with the powers that be), so "can't be done" was not entirely true, was it... Infact, pack of lies sounds just about right.

Actually, it very well could have been true THEN even if it is NOW possible. Changes had to be made to the back end structure of the game to allow tradeskill class changes, gender changes, race changes, etc.

It was also said, more than once, that the name of a guild could be changed but had the potential to cause a lot of havoc with members and guild linked stuff that it wasn't something they did often even when a name was rule breaking (breaking up the guild was easier).

So, if a statement is made at one time that is true at that time (such as, in 1986 declaring, "Ronald Regan IS President") because it is not true later (he's not president now) doesn't mean it was a lie when it was said.

Oh dear. I didn't simply say "it can be done now so it could be done then", reread my post please, I gave a good example of why it was not true: Guild names were infact changed back then, as in my example of La Cosa Nostra which was forced to rename years ago, before SOE even introduced LoN, and long before Station Cash and this particular potion was a mere glint in a greedy SOE exec's beady little eye.

[Tuatha]

Furthermore, after the February 2006 server mergers, a lot of guilds ended up with names like Fabledx (since both servers had a guild with that name) and the one with the x at the end was allowed to pick a new name. Saying "sorry, we won't do it because it would lead to lots of other people petitioning for a name change too and we don't want to open that Pandora's box" would probably have been a true statement, whereas "it can't be done"? Not so much.

[d1anaw]

Amnerys wrote:

Once upon a time, long ago and far away, you were faced with an important decision … A decision that would forever impact your identity in the world of Norrath… One that would define yourself and your group of companions, setting you apart from the others…

You had to choose a guild name.

Read More...

I do like the idea. We inherited the guild name from someone no longer around and it doesn't suit the guild. I don't like the price and think it is unfair that the price falls on the guild leader/s to spend real world money to change it if they feel like doing so. It seems to me there should be a better way that doesn't cost the guild leader real world money.

[KerowynnKaotic]

d1anaw wrote:

*snipped*

I do like the idea. We inherited the guild name from someone no longer around and it doesn't suit the guild. I don't like the price and think it is unfair that the price falls on the guild leader/s to spend real world money to change it if they feel like doing so. It seems to me there should be a better way that doesn't cost the guild leader real world money.

It falls to the Guild Leader to PURCHASE it.  The Guild itself can contribute. 

All they need to do is go buy a $5 (or whatever) SC card, scratch off the covering and tell the Guild Leader the code(s).  Guild Leader enters the code(s) and voila! The Guild pays for the Name Change even though the Guild Leader purchases it.

If game cards aren't available in their area .. There's Paypal, sending the Guild Leader a Check, Cash or Money Order.  So that they can purchase it via their Credit Card.   There's also Ebay!  Someone on Ebay will occassionally put up SC cards when there are Bonus SC days.

[Tyrus Dracofire]

i have 3 walmarts, 1 in local and other 2 are in 30 mins drive range, none of them would carry eq2 cards, so i had to go visit Best Buy and Super K.

local gameshops in my home area no longer sells any PC games or cards, now i have to order online to ship it or get pre-order any expansions.

55 dollars seem too deep, and setting up for 25 dollars look way too cheap and potienal for abuses, so i think 35 dollars was kinda of borderline.

[Guy De Alsace]

The high price is a deterrent not an inducement. Its a deterrent in terms of people actually taking time to create the guild in the first instance and then only change it, if needed, rarely instead of every other week.

Whatever meeting you have to decide these prices you need to ask yourselves if the "Fluff item" you just put on SC is actually worth over the price of the entire expansion its released into. Now THAT was a pricing blunder.

[ke'la]

Tuatha@Splitpaw wrote:

Furthermore, after the February 2006 server mergers, a lot of guilds ended up with names like Fabledx (since both servers had a guild with that name) and the one with the x at the end was allowed to pick a new name. Saying "sorry, we won't do it because it would lead to lots of other people petitioning for a name change too and we don't want to open that Pandora's box" would probably have been a true statement, whereas "it can't be done"? Not so much.

There are alot of reasons why something "can't" be done. Remember when you put in a patition you are dealing with a low level CS rep, they have a limited set of tools with wich they can and can't do things, and they have a large number of rules about how and when they can use those tools. Yes, the had the ABILITY to change a guild name, but for Policy reasons at the time they only could accually change the name under specific cercomstances, such as Naming violations and actions by SoE that forced a guild to change its name. What they couldn't do was change the name of a guild that just wanted a differant name.

It wasn't a technical reason why they couldn't do it, though that might have been a part of it. It was a Policy reason.

Why did they have that policy?

Likly to lower the workload of the CS department, as the CS person would of had to manually change the name, just like with charactor names at the time. Granted I am sure among the reasons was also to avoid abuses by guilds and the fact that they likly didn't have a way to track a guilds verious name changes. All three of those issues are solved with this potion. The High price limits Abuses, they added a tracking system, and they Automated the name change so it doesn't effect the CS people.

[ke'la]

Guy De Alsace wrote:

The high price is a deterrent not an inducement. Its a deterrent in terms of people actually taking time to create the guild in the first instance and then only change it, if needed, rarely instead of every other week.

Whatever meeting you have to decide these prices you need to ask yourselves if the "Fluff item" you just put on SC is actually worth over the price of the entire expansion its released into. Now THAT was a pricing blunder.

Wow someone accually gets it, this is something they DON'T WANT TO SELL alot of. That is the whole point of the stuipidly high price.

[Sands]

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

Calthine wrote:

It wasn't a pack of lies.  The game has been out 5 1/2 years now and only now has this become available. 

The OP from House Reamorda was talking about when SoE allowed EQ2 guilds to use certain characters such as ' in the name. Apparently one could not use those type characters in guild names when guilds were introduced. Then later, use of those characters were allowed, but too late for guilds like House Rea'Morda who wanted it changed but could not.

Now they can through the potion.

So with the new potion you can include an apostrophe in a guild name?

I have an alt guild themed after Maj'dul, which also had Maj'dul in the name for years.  Then maybe several months before SF launched I logged in to find the apostrophe removed with no explanation for it at all.

When I petitioned about it they said there was an automated script that was put in to remove them from names and I couldn't get it back anymore.

I would love to get that apostrophe back.  =(

[Zanadi]

I have to say I'm very happy with my guild(s) name. So this isn't something I'll be getting myself. However I do feel this is a fair price for it. My guild reflects who I am and if it was necessary, yes I would spend the money.

The high price helps keep the abuse of the item down. A guild that has "fairly" received a poor reputation won't be changing guild names every other week.

And I generally find there are guild "loyals" that will help foot the bill for such a change.

[xpraetorianx]

$55, and at that price the GM's could be nice and clean away any old guild that hasnt' been used in MONTHS AND MONTHS so that some people can get the guild name they really want..  I dont think thats too much to ask on the customer's end.

Current active paying customers should have more weight than an account that hasnt logged in for 2 years...and is level 6 and probably isnt even a guild leader in the guild but yet is holding on to that guild name for no good reason. 

Guilds that havent had a player login for 1 year should be automatically name changed with an x at the end or something so real paying customers can get what they want.

[Hamervelder]

kela wrote:

{0}

I do, in fact, understand economics quite well.  Keep your assumptions to yourself.

[Tyrus Dracofire]

i just remembered.

back in mid 2005, after more than 6 months after Eq2 launched.

there was a guild named as "Tribunals" on Butcherblock/Hightower, one of strongest guild that started "raid" trending, somehow, on of GM log on and forced the name changing, and guild leader and high ranked members decided to rename as "Aftermath".

GM changed it for free, since "Tribunal" is a eq's deity of justice, and most players were assume that deity will be in eq2, but it hasnt arrive yet, since EoF's diety updates. now i am wondering were are the other deities, were they got killed by godslayer, or cut ties with Norrath for good? or trapped beyond the Pantheon of Planes?

[Hamervelder]

kela wrote:

all say it again, they would most likly make much MORE MONEY if they LOWERED the price to something that would allow the troll guilds to regularly hide themselfs with out much cost. The whole POINT of the high price is a DISinsentive to accually buying the dang thing, so it doesn't get abused too much. It is just like AT&T charging $75.00 every 15mins to bring a telephone line to a desk in an office, as aposed to interconnects that charge like $90.00/hr they don't want to do it, but if your willing to poney up the extra dough they will.

A true disinsentive to purchasing a guild name change would be to limit the number of times that a guild can change their name.  A similar mechanic is in place with changing your AA profiles.  Each time you do it, the price goes up, and then resets every thirty days.  At some point, changing your AA's becomes cost-prohibitive to most players.  If SOE truly wanted to keep people from 'abusing' the guild name change, then they'd have implemented it in a way that only allows guilds to change the name X number of times, or every X period of time.

Further, I'll point out that an individual name change is only $15.  My logic in mentioning this (which may not come across well, given the late hour) is that it's very easy for individual troublemakers to hide.  A name change and new identity is $15 away.  Heck, you can change your gender and race, too if you want.  I don't see any effort to price that item in such a way as to dissuade people from abusing it.  Ergo, I'm not buying the excuse that the guild name change was priced high to discourage 'abuse'.  I believe that it was priced high, because the folks at Sony believe that people who really want it will pay that price.

Further, there are already measure in place to deal with 'troll' guilds.  Guilds that habitually cause problems can be permanently disbanded, and their officers can be held accountable for the actions of guilds.  If Sony would actually enforce their own rules (which they don't seem to do often) then truly troublesome guilds would be much more rare.

On the topic of things that can or cannot be done, there are plenty of things that Sony does on a case-by-case basis, that supposedly cannot be done.  Long before name-change potions were available, GM's would change players' names.  We were told at times that it would never happen.  Yet when Sony got the ability to charge us real money for it, suddenly it could be done.  They've changed guild names in years past, even though it was supposedly impossible.  Yet again, now that they can charge money, it can be done.  Gender and race supposedly couldn't be changed, either.  Lo and behold, once they can charge money for it, it's suddenly possible.  GM's can give players multiple-word surnames, which is something that we can't do ourselves.  I look for that to become available eventually. For a cash price.

So, economics?  Yes, it's all about economics for Sony.  It's about how much of our cash they can stuff in their pockets without getting busted for it.  That is, after all, what capitalism is all about: Make as much money as you possibly can without going to jail.

[KerowynnKaotic]

Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:

*snipped*

On the topic of things that can or cannot be done, there are plenty of things that Sony does on a case-by-case basis, that supposedly cannot be done.  *snipped*

I really don't think it was ever so much about anything that 'can not be done' as much as it was about being a 'Royal Pain In The "A"' to be done. 

Remember our Names are linked to the files that keep our character info on the dbase somewhere.  Every time we change them, those links have to adjusted, along with everything else that is linked to that character info. 

Guild Name links to the Guild lvl info & nearly unlimited # of players across the server.  That had to be automated, so that if there were 100+ Guild Members online, they'd all update in nearly the same instant. Not to mention Guild Members logging on/off at the exact second of the change, they'd still need to be affected.  A single character's name & sex were (obviously) much simpler to automate than the Guild change.

My guess is SOE just didn't really want the headache for it till they could come up with a nice 'easy' program on their side that does the switch without someone having to babysit the change(s).

[Alvane]

Sands@Antonia Bayle wrote:

So with the new potion you can include an apostrophe in a guild name?

All you need to do to verify is to read SoE's Naming Policy as to which characters are approved.

[Shareana]

*thinks like a familiar Dark elf*

What is to stop a disgruntled Guild Leader from changing the name and then disbanding or quitting the game after changing the name?

[Alvane]

Shareana wrote:

*thinks like a familiar Dark elf*

What is to stop a disgruntled Guild Leader from changing the name and then disbanding or quitting the game after changing the name?

Nada ..... particularly if there is only one guild leader. I know of 2 guilds who were single handedly destroyed by their guild leader. In one case, the guild is basically non-existant even today. In the other case, an old leader came back to the game - fortunately he was still a leader and he and others have been rebuilding the guild.

However, if a guild leader - and there was only one - disbanded the guild (kicked everyone out) and quit the game - I'm reasonably sure, if the ones who got kicked wanted to get back their guild, SoE may be able to help in that case. Then the new leader(s) can select a new name. However, SoE may want to require a timeline to be sure the old leader quit permanently.

In my limited experience, guilds who imploded for what ever reason, rarely come back after the members either left or were kicked out. Most just join another guild or some might band together and start their own guild.