Im giving up tanking for groups...

[therodge]

Kigneer wrote:

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

Kigneer wrote:

The Guardians still have their niche for overall mitigation

Yeah its nice to look at those MIT numbers on my screen as the mob(S) are running around from scout to wizard to healer.

At least you have it.

At least you can tank without having to ward and heal as that is suppose to compensate for not having MIT.

At least you have more dps than a Pally as well (my little 27 level Guardian can blaze through instances I couldn't at level without dying).

Every class has their woe stories, but Guardians still have their MIT (something I'm sorely lacking even in T1 armor).

im a paladin and honestly posts like this make us look bad

this is blatently wrong crusaders are a slow to wind up but the punch ends up being devistating, paladins in specific arnt half the class they will be at 80 till level 70 with about 100 aa at 80 with knights stance and to a lesser extent faithful strike (tso end line abilility. we will easily outparse and equally skilled guard by atleast 1k dps. significantly more multitarget get both to 80 mentor down to 40 then have them both destroy re see who completes the zone first.

guardians have a decent survivability edge pre myth and dont have the power problems we do, that said after your myth and the re2 collection earing guards have a slight spike damage edge but paladins have due to the mythical effect (ultamatly reducing damage by 17-19% were guards its reduced by 5) a better sustained damage absorbtion. guards are used over paladins MT raiding due to their antispike abilitys.

equally geared and equally skilled guardian will have without temps maybe 500 more mit then a paladin and once into the curve enough even with temps they might have a total of 3-4% more.

its a fact guardians lack a little luster right now and need some tweaking they dont need an overhaul heck a major boost to taunts and 1 more blue aoe would probobly do the trick.

[Kordran]

therodge wrote:

we will easily outparse and equally skilled guard by atleast 1k dps. significantly more multitarget

I generally agree with what you wrote there, but there are qualifiers to this. A Guardian can easily outparse a comparably geared Paladin against a single t target if he dual-wields. Of course, the flip-side of this is that they lose survivability if they do that; Paladins don't have that option, so they have higher survivability than the dual-wielding Guardian, but a lower top-end threshold on damage.

A personal example of this is my Paladin and a friend's Guardian, both with our DPS gear on in PAO. I was putting out at most around 7-8K on the trash. He was consistently putting out 9-10K, sometimes a bit higher. Those aren't awesome numbers, but at the time I think we were about as well matched in terms of gear, etc. that a Paladin and Guardian can be.

Now, you're right to point out that when it's encounters with multiple mobs, that's an entirely different story. Those kinds of fights are where Crusaders shine (of course, it's all relative, because Shadowknights can still make Paladins look like chumps when it comes to AE fights).

This is why class comparisons can get tricky, particularly when you're talking about different base classes.

Edit: And of course, one of the central issues to this particular thread is the difficulty that lesser-geared Guardians have with many of the TSO instances, since they're dominated by multi-mob encounters. I guess the difficulty the developers have is how to help those Guardians out, without overpowering them at the top-end, and without effectively turning them into Berserkers.

[Kreagan De'Unerro]

For those non-myth, non raid guardians one of your main issues is roughly 80% of level 80s have their Myths on "most" servers. IF you are running around in Leg/Quested gear you can not expect to hold any agro against a Myth DPS class, who has some fable, which many 80s who have been running TSO for months have by now.

Your best bet is find a group of friends(though server populations suck and there should be mergers) who you can hang out with and progress yourself. Once you are 80 farm some stuff from RoK instances and quests, then do starting zones for TSO such as DF,Scion,NHT,Befallen,evernight Abbey,etc... You will "eventually" get your T2 shard gear and can start progressing the x2 raids easily.

Find a good dirge and templar or warden to be your buddy, and you can create any group from there. You are a tank, you dictat your groups, people expect you to lead them, do it. But do it nicely

TSO was not created as a way to bypass RoK content, it is a progression. You will not need your Myth for TSO but get your Fabled version, it is easily attainable. Rememeber adorments help also. We do have to work harder then the other tanks atm, but just hang in there, our time will come once again. One expansion of this game on the bottom for most guards is not the end.

[Kordran]

Jokael@Oasis wrote:

For those non-myth, non raid guardians one of your main issues is roughly 80% of level 80s have their Myths on "most" servers. ... You will not need your Myth for TSO but get your Fabled version, it is easily attainable.

I seriously doubt that anywhere close to 80% of level 80 toons out there have their mythical weapon. It may seem that way based on the groups that you normally run with but you're only seeing a small slice of the population. Heck, there's a fair number of level 80 players who don't even have their fabled yet.

And I wouldn't describe the Guardian fabled epic as "easily attainable". It is seriously one of the most annoying quest lines out there; the fact that it requires the freakin' Claymore and Screaming Mace HQs doesn't help things, either.

[TheMightyTaco]

Coming back after a two year break you are definitely seeing that tanking isn't at all what it used to be. I have played with a group of friends consistently and for the most part we've kept our group roles the same. But the game has changed a LOT (understatement) and that fact is creeping in to our playstyle. When we do group with people outside our circle we see exactly what the overall group game has become.

Groups need a tank for the tight spots but for the most part they don't need us at all. It seems everyone has decided that all-out DPS from everyone is better than managing a fight and taking it safe. As a "tank" your job ends about 2 seconds after the pull.

You'll take the initial barrage from the mobs and then nobody cares after that. A mage or scout will take aggro. You'll try to get aggro back but it won't matter. The healer is keeping up the DPSers and the mobs will be dead in a couple seconds. After a while you'll get used to the new game. You'll always be in offensive stance (except for difficult names) and try to keep your DPS up.

If you try to group with random people and tank "old style" you'll be berated quickly. You're too slow. They will start pulling more mobs. There is no such thing as recovery time between fights anymore. There is no downtime before a fight to set up a spot to tank from to avoid adds. There isn't any strategy (with a few exceptions).

Your job in 2009 is to pull, DPS, pull, DPS, pull, DPS. If you don't do that job quickly others will be doing to pulling for you. And frankly, most groups have enough DPS to not really care if you are DPSing or not. Your job is then to provide your handful of group-wide buffs.

In short, I play my guard when it's my turn. Otherwise, I'm more than happy to play my alts.

[lik]

Ulion@Befallen wrote:

Coming back after a two year break you are definitely seeing that tanking isn't at all what it used to be. I have played with a group of friends consistently and for the most part we've kept our group roles the same. But the game has changed a LOT (understatement) and that fact is creeping in to our playstyle. When we do group with people outside our circle we see exactly what the overall group game has become.

Groups need a tank for the tight spots but for the most part they don't need us at all. It seems everyone has decided that all-out DPS from everyone is better than managing a fight and taking it safe. As a "tank" your job ends about 2 seconds after the pull.

You'll take the initial barrage from the mobs and then nobody cares after that. A mage or scout will take aggro. You'll try to get aggro back but it won't matter. The healer is keeping up the DPSers and the mobs will be dead in a couple seconds. After a while you'll get used to the new game. You'll always be in offensive stance (except for difficult names) and try to keep your DPS up.

If you try to group with random people and tank "old style" you'll be berated quickly. You're too slow. They will start pulling more mobs. There is no such thing as recovery time between fights anymore. There is no downtime before a fight to set up a spot to tank from to avoid adds. There isn't any strategy (with a few exceptions).

Your job in 2009 is to pull, DPS, pull, DPS, pull, DPS. If you don't do that job quickly others will be doing to pulling for you. And frankly, most groups have enough DPS to not really care if you are DPSing or not. Your job is then to provide your handful of group-wide buffs.

In short, I play my guard when it's my turn. Otherwise, I'm more than happy to play my alts.

Perfect, I also feel groups ask for Tanks when grouping just incase they cant kill the end mob with a scout MT. And having to ask in 70-79 chat is way to much of a wast of time for dps, so they just take along a Plate tank just incase.

[Kigneer]

Davngr1 wrote:

einhander wrote:

Rok was all bout guards..They tanked every raid and instance the best..Tso is crusaders time to shine..Pallys and sk's tanking raids everywhere and the instances just seem made for there aoe abilitys.

Next expansion most likey back to guardians again..Crusaders(expecialy SK) Have sucked for ages..Sks are awesome now..pallys ok but need alot of help still.

4 more months then it will be guard time to shine again.

 yes SK where lacking something in RoK, yes single target tanks like pallys and guards shined in RoK

Although it was planned for Paladins to be single-target tanks, Paladins are not now. Our highest damage comes from AoE spells (Consecrate being the most powerful Pally spell); Smite Evil (double damage to undead AoE); Doom Judgement (dispel and another massive AoE attack) and Trample the melee dps/auto attack. We are defensive utility tanks, and designed for mob control.

[therodge]

Kigneer wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

einhander wrote:

Rok was all bout guards..They tanked every raid and instance the best..Tso is crusaders time to shine..Pallys and sk's tanking raids everywhere and the instances just seem made for there aoe abilitys.

Next expansion most likey back to guardians again..Crusaders(expecialy SK) Have sucked for ages..Sks are awesome now..pallys ok but need alot of help still.

4 more months then it will be guard time to shine again.

 yes SK where lacking something in RoK, yes single target tanks like pallys and guards shined in RoK

Although it was planned for Paladins to be single-target tanks, Paladins are not now. Our highest damage comes from AoE spells (Consecrate being the most powerful Pally spell); Smite Evil (double damage to undead AoE); Doom Judgement (dispel and another massive AoE attack) and Trample the melee dps/auto attack. We are defensive utility tanks, and designed for mob control.

thread hijack incomming

smite evil doesent hit double damage on undead

[epyon333]

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

Ganger wrote:

I been back on Eq2 for less than 3 weeks after nearly 2 year break. I got a level 80 guardian kitted out in mosty RoK and now a few TSO gear. I have tried a few instances in TSO and well its been a disaster from the off. I look at other tanks armor and see that they mit is nearly 200 more than mine (mine is around 500 - 600 all legendary and all level 77 to 80). Another point is that I used to tank all instances in KoS, EoF when they first came out without a problem.

I have tried to tank the TSO instances and been mosty wiped and being accused of being a rubbish tank and replaced. Im not rubbish, I know my class, how to tank, I know how to pull, how to turn mobs so the mobs back is facing the group etc, I know what each and every spell is for for my guardian and how to use them. My spells are mostly Adept 3 and a few masters. But still im finding it hard to keep aggro, even tho im taunting, auto-attackng, spamming attacks etc.

Like some group memebers are pointing out to me that my armor is just too weak and im tanking well but agian it comes down to my armor. But my problem is that how im I suspose to get top quailty armor if groups don't want me to tank for them and what group wants a guardian to DPS and take up space in a group.

Im doing the shards quests and so far got 6 shards, but its slow going and its getting very boring. The T1 shard armor in moors doesn't seem as good as the armor I already have. I feel like the game as got so hard and being away for such a long time is keeping me back. On a good note some groups I have tanked for and fail have been really nice and understanding, replacing me as Tank but keeping me in the group. But im getting to a point of quiting the game again.

Pretty much in the same boat........I think I have tanked one TSO instance in the past two months.

The truth is we are the absolute worse of the plate tanks to tank TSO instances. Its not that we cannot get the job done....it just it requires 10x the work for not just us but also for the rest of the group.......and it usually means taking 3x as long to clear most instances. And god forbid you have a group with no form of hate buff or xfer.

This far into TSO people are all about maximum efficiency in clearing TSO........DPS do not want to have to hold back. If there is decent SK or Zerker available groups are simply going to take the easier/faster/less stressful way and use one of those to MT.

Yeah ive given up tanking with my zerker. 

Im in T1 armor, 2 sets of T2 jewelery, all experts with a few masters, i have my fabled, and The magma blocker from DF and Harbinger of malcontent from SOH.  Most my shards i had do grey runs for, and id have to keep doing that to get my t2 armor. 

Scion seems to be the only TSO that im geared enough for.  ive tried DF several times my group hasnt been able to take down any of the names.  either i drop too fast or the DPS'ers have to hold back enough and healers end up running out of power. 

No one respects that hate meter, unless your fighting a named.  If its on trash GL holding aggro.

[Raahl]

If I could swap out my guardian out for a non-fighter class, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Sony has the fighter classes so out of balance at the moment. 

Solo'ing is a pain and really slow, at least for my guardian it is.

Grouping is decent I guess, when you can get one.

Raiding is messed up.  There's no real reason, other than to just fill a slot, to have more that 2 fighter types on a raid.

Right now the only reason to play my Guardian is to get him to level 80 (78 atm), so I can get an exp bonus for my lower level toons.  After that I'll probably be playing my Troubador to 80 (76 atm) for even more bonus.  Then start playing my Ranger (47 atm).

I've been bouncing ideas around in my head for the Fighter classes for some time.   I'll try and get it down in a post sometime soon. 

[Wasuna]

I'm an 80 Guardian that has played a Guardian since Beta. I have 14.5K HP, 72% Avoidance, 63% Mitigation solo. I have my mythical, T2 shard armor and jewlery, two fabled items from random raids. I have almost all of my masters with all my taunts being master. I have every single Agro increase and tanking AA that I can get. I have 100% focused on being the best possible tank I can be and I have 200 AA's. I feel I'm pretty well equiped and setup.

I have a group of friends, when I play with them things are good and we do thinsg just fine. When I'm on and LFG and get a tank spot in a group. I just flat can't keep agro. One wizard, fine I can moderate them. Any more than that and I'm screwed unless I have serious hate transfer.

I have a level 80 Troubador that I play when things are slow. I have been grouped with a Paladin tank with two wizards and a Warlock and I didn't even have to play my agrop reduction song and things died SO FAST! I have been grouped with a SK tank and two Warlocks. No agro reduction song and things died before I could even get behind it most times to start attacking. Neither group had ANY form of agro trasnfer (no dirge, swashbuckler or Coercer) to the tank other than the paladins Amends.

I know that as a Guardian, both of those groups would have had the casters die 2-3 times and would have broken up shortly with my Guardian tanking.

Agro in this game is screwed. I see it form both sides.

As for the benefits of being a Guardian? The ~500 mitigation hits against the soft cap so it's almost nothing. I have nothing going for me other than some friends that are willing to let me tank.

If somebody can tell me what I'm doing wrong please do. It would sure make the game fun forme again if I just was missing my "Magic Purple Button of Agro". Right now I just feel like a 3rd wheel and a liability to my group of friends.

[RafaelSmith]

Wasuna wrote:

I'm an 80 Guardian that has played a Guardian since Beta. I have 14.5K HP, 72% Avoidance, 63% Mitigation solo. I have my mythical, T2 shard armor and jewlery, two fabled items from random raids. I have almost all of my masters with all my taunts being master. I have every single Agro increase and tanking AA that I can get. I have 100% focused on being the best possible tank I can be and I have 200 AA's. I feel I'm pretty well equiped and setup.

I have a group of friends, when I play with them things are good and we do thinsg just fine. When I'm on and LFG and get a tank spot in a group. I just flat can't keep agro. One wizard, fine I can moderate them. Any more than that and I'm screwed unless I have serious hate transfer.

I have a level 80 Troubador that I play when things are slow. I have been grouped with a Paladin tank with two wizards and a Warlock and I didn't even have to play my agrop reduction song and things died SO FAST! I have been grouped with a SK tank and two Warlocks. No agro reduction song and things died before I could even get behind it most times to start attacking. Neither group had ANY form of agro trasnfer (no dirge, swashbuckler or Coercer) to the tank other than the paladins Amends.

I know that as a Guardian, both of those groups would have had the casters die 2-3 times and would have broken up shortly with my Guardian tanking.

Agro in this game is screwed. I see it form both sides.

As for the benefits of being a Guardian? The ~500 mitigation hits against the soft cap so it's almost nothing. I have nothing going for me other than some friends that are willing to let me tank.

If somebody can tell me what I'm doing wrong please do. It would sure make the game fun forme again if I just was missing my "Magic Purple Button of Agro". Right now I just feel like a 3rd wheel and a liability to my group of friends.

I could not have expressed my own feelings better than this.  The part i bolded in red is really the only reason I get to do anything.

This is exactly how I feel about my Guardian and matches almost exactly the experiences I have had with my guildmates and such.

At the moment....with the exception of a few nitch special case encounters(only in raids) I feel I am a liability to them.  I have pretty much stopped grouping alltogether....I attend our raids simply because our raid alliance is small and I actually contribute something.   But if we had a larger roster of DPS classes or other SKs that are as well played and geared as ours I would probably perma bench myself.

[dellaripa]

I'm in the same boat as the rest of you-T2 TSO, fabled epic, mix of a3 and masters.  My experiences are totally different however in that I'm not having as much trouble.  Sure I can't hold AE aggro one bit, but if you have a good healer (which I do) and your group is putting out that much damage, things die fast enough the you shouldn't have a problem.  If you're fighting a group of a +3 and two +2's, do your best to hold the +3 on you.

When doing TSO with a random group I always ask the DPS who has their mythicals.  I always remind them that I'm not raid geared and not an SK, so hold back a tad.  Most comply.  Moderate and sustain who you think will be the most trouble, and adjust that if needed after a few pulls.  If you have a good healer, tank in offensive.  Most trash in TSO zones die so fast that you won't notice much of a difference in taking damage, but your DPS will increase by a large amount.  Switch to defensive when tanking nameds and rely on your emergency taunts.  In all but the longest fights Reinforcement, Rescue, and the TSO emergencies should be more than enough, especially if you invested the AAs in the reduced recast times.  If you're a guard you have tower of stone, use it (duh).  I can't count how many times that has saved our group.

For AA's I went 4-4-8-8 strength for the added hate and taunts.  I think it amplifies taunts by 24% which is huge.  I 72(?) M2'd my single target taunt which is huge as well.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but not only does it increase taunt over A3/M1 but it also gets resisted less.

Gearwise I finished my T1 set then went straight to the infused jewelry.  If you don't raid, most of the infused blows away broker bought stuff, especially in parry/defense and +melee stats.  I found that my DPS output doubled after I finished. 

Also remember to have thick skin.  When a group wipes, it's easiest for the group to blame the tank.  Sometimes it's our fault often times it's not.  If you don't know how to run a TSO zone, look it up on Wiki or ask questions.  Many of the nameds have a strategy, which if you don't follow, you'll wipe regardless of how good or bad your gear is. 

Most importantly have fun, that's what it's all about isn't it?

[Raahl]

Wasuna wrote:

I'm an 80 Guardian that has played a Guardian since Beta. I have 14.5K HP, 72% Avoidance, 63% Mitigation solo.

Holy Crap Batman!

I assume it's the gear that gets you that high.  72% Avoidance!!! 

Sigh, I will probably never see these numbers. 

[RafaelSmith]

dellaripa wrote:

 Sure I can't hold AE aggro one bit, but if you have a good healer (which I do) and your group is putting out that much damage, things die fast enough the you shouldn't have a problem.  If you're fighting a group of a +3 and two +2's, do your best to hold the +3 on you.

See I just do not consider that to be a tank class that is working correctly.

I guess our surviveability advantage means that we are taking less DMG because the rest of the group gets to "tank" the adds?  Im sure healers really love having to heal multiple "tanks" in an instance.

[RafaelSmith]

Raahl wrote:

Wasuna wrote:

I'm an 80 Guardian that has played a Guardian since Beta. I have 14.5K HP, 72% Avoidance, 63% Mitigation solo.

Holy Crap Batman!

I assume it's the gear that gets you that high.  72% Avoidance!!! 

Sigh, I will probably never see these numbers. 

Its a mix Gear and AA.....and at 80 those are probably below average numbers for Guardians.  Easily matched by other plates without sacrificing aggro.

I can reach pretty close to those numbers......but they do not help me one bit doing my job in instances.

[Wasuna]

Actually, I inspect just about every tank I walk by in raids and just standing around in places. Those stats are pretty much the best I have seen except for the very best raid guild tanks. People just seen the word FABLED and assume it has to be the best for them in that item slot. I have much better stuff on me that is legendary than crap fabled stuff I see people wearing. Now, don't get me wrong. I'd kill for some of that fabled stuff but you have to look close at it.

A proper geared tank would have about the same stats as me but with much better resists and specials like + combat art damage, DPS, DA.. etc. I'm only ~50 haste, ~30 DPS and ~35% DA and only around ~400 extra CA damage solo.

All that and I still can't hold agro at all.

Still waiting to see if anybody can tell me what I'm doing wrong. I honestly want to know how to fix my Guardian. I'm not trying to be simple or anything. I just think if we all look at the problem in a positive way then one of two things will happen:

1. We'll find an answer.

2. We'll find that there is no answer.

I suspect we all know what we'll find but positive attitudes have a much better chance of suscess.

[Kigneer]

therodge wrote:

thread hijack incomming

smite evil doesent hit double damage on undead

Earlier it had a double the damage if undead. Now, it's used as an huge AoE damage spell (I can top 4k on it, in defensive mode even) on *any* creature. Doom Judgement+Consecrate+Smite Evil+Ancient Wrath on a mob equals = m-a-s-s-i-v-e killing (well over 12k, and not including melee auto-attack and double attack that is around 45%/25% at least end game, that can add an extra 5k). When Paladins deny their AoE abilities to go straight to being mini-guardians they really nerf themselves.

[Kigneer]

Wasuna wrote:

I have much better stuff on me that is legendary than crap fabled stuff I see people wearing. Now, don't get me wrong. I'd kill for some of that fabled stuff but you have to look close at it.

True, true, true. The choker I picked up in WoE is fabled, but the stats are pretty dismal (and upgradeable for a 0/6 Tactician's T2 set, which is a waste of shards as 2 items at least are also upgradeable for nominal stat increases for a full set). Rather have +parry and +power regen +AGI than any other stat now. Can't get power regen with parry; and AGI comes at the price of STA, which defeats the reason for having parry in the first place. Always look at the stats not the label first, as there are some legendary items that offer better stats -- at least for the T2 side.

[thial]

As far as AA goes for instances I run..

4-4-8-8 str

4-8-8-8 agi

4-4-8-1 sta

I chose 8 in str 4 for instances since you don't always get a dirge and coercer in groups so it does help if you only get one of those support classes and the extra taunt does help in a  group situation but almost pointless in raids

8 points in agi 2 nets a good 1k hit, with 400 ca damage

you could take 4 points from agi 4 and the one point in sta 4 and get excel stike going but I personally didn't find a need for it..

as far as the gaurdian line you can check my eq2players for that its the same in raid or group spec

and for the tso line

5 in swinging strike 5 in o stance and of coursesneering

5 in rallying cry 5 in aggressive nature and I put 5 in shielding but you can put it in shield slam for that extra shield bash damage and of course the lame cry of the warrior

5 in hateful stike 5 in constitution 5 in strategic assault 4 in reversal and of course get the two endlines

I found this setup to work the best for aoe agro when it comes to my guard

also the 3 set bonus on the t1 t2 t3 what ever you may have is decent to if you can get the mobs to beat on ya for a decent amount of time what i started doing recently is to run into a few groups blue aoe and let the group catchup this way the mobs beat on me a lil before they get into em but it's risky with pu groups or bad healers lol but still if we had just one blue aoe taunt that did lilke 2k on a decent timer and not a 4 max target things would go a lot smoother hell all fighters could get it, should put it in there instead of the stupid riposte mastery in the fighter tso tree...

[RafaelSmith]

Jdark@Everfrost wrote:

As far as AA goes for instances I run..

4-4-8-8 str

4-8-8-8 agi

4-4-8-1 sta

I chose 8 in str 4 for instances since you don't always get a dirge and coercer in groups so it does help if you only get one of those support classes and the extra taunt does help in a group situation but almost pointless in raids

8 points in agi 2 nets a good 1k hit, with 400 ca damage

you could take 4 points from agi 4 and the one point in sta 4 and get excel stike going but I personally didn't find a need for it..

as far as the gaurdian line you can check my eq2players for that its the same in raid or group spec

and for the tso line

5 in swinging strike 5 in o stance and of coursesneering

5 in rallying cry 5 in aggressive nature and I put 5 in shielding but you can put it in shield slam for that extra shield bash damage and of course the lame cry of the warrior

5 in hateful stike 5 in constitution 5 in strategic assault 4 in reversal and of course get the two endlines

I found this setup to work the best for aoe agro when it comes to my guard

also the 3 set bonus on the t1 t2 t3 what ever you may have is decent to if you can get the mobs to beat on ya for a decent amount of time what i started doing recently is to run into a few groups blue aoe and let the group catchup this way the mobs beat on me a lil before they get into em but it's risky with pu groups or bad healers lol but still if we had just one blue aoe taunt that did lilke 2k on a decent timer and not a 4 max target things would go a lot smoother hell all fighters could get it, should put it in there instead of the stupid riposte mastery in the fighter tso tree...

Interesting.  Thus far every AA spec I have tried to make things better for me for instances has included the INT end-line.

Never really thought about maxing AGI 2 to get more DMG out of blue AE.

Gonna respec to somthing similar to what you list here and see how it goes Afterwall, what else am i gonna do for the next 8+ months =P

[Raahl]

Wasuna wrote:

Actually, I inspect just about every tank I walk by in raids and just standing around in places. Those stats are pretty much the best I have seen except for the very best raid guild tanks. People just seen the word FABLED and assume it has to be the best for them in that item slot. I have much better stuff on me that is legendary than crap fabled stuff I see people wearing. Now, don't get me wrong. I'd kill for some of that fabled stuff but you have to look close at it.

A proper geared tank would have about the same stats as me but with much better resists and specials like + combat art damage, DPS, DA.. etc. I'm only ~50 haste, ~30 DPS and ~35% DA and only around ~400 extra CA damage solo.

All that and I still can't hold agro at all.

Still waiting to see if anybody can tell me what I'm doing wrong. I honestly want to know how to fix my Guardian. I'm not trying to be simple or anything. I just think if we all look at the problem in a positive way then one of two things will happen:

1. We'll find an answer.

2. We'll find that there is no answer.

I suspect we all know what we'll find but positive attitudes have a much better chance of suscess.

Time to check your equipment out on eq2players. 

What's your characters name Wasuna?

[thial]

Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:

Interesting.  Thus far every AA spec I have tried to make things better for me for instances has included the INT end-line.

Never really thought about maxing AGI 2 to get more DMG out of blue AE.

Gonna respec to somthing similar to what you list here and see how it goes Afterwall, what else am i gonna do for the next 8+ months =P

It took me a while to convince myself to drop INT and try something else I miss the reuse for sure but I notice aoe agro is a lil better but when your grouped with a lock and a conjy with just a swashy things are still very intersting...good luck with the respec, let me know how it works out.

[Macross_JR]

Wasuna wrote:

Actually, I inspect just about every tank I walk by in raids and just standing around in places. Those stats are pretty much the best I have seen except for the very best raid guild tanks. People just seen the word FABLED and assume it has to be the best for them in that item slot. I have much better stuff on me that is legendary than crap fabled stuff I see people wearing. Now, don't get me wrong. I'd kill for some of that fabled stuff but you have to look close at it.

A proper geared tank would have about the same stats as me but with much better resists and specials like + combat art damage, DPS, DA.. etc. I'm only ~50 haste, ~30 DPS and ~35% DA and only around ~400 extra CA damage solo.

All that and I still can't hold agro at all.

Still waiting to see if anybody can tell me what I'm doing wrong. I honestly want to know how to fix my Guardian. I'm not trying to be simple or anything. I just think if we all look at the problem in a positive way then one of two things will happen:

1. We'll find an answer.

2. We'll find that there is no answer.

I suspect we all know what we'll find but positive attitudes have a much better chance of suscess.

Honestly, it sounds like you are focusing too much on defensive stats.  Defensive stats isn't going to help you hold agro.  The way to hold agro is to build groups to help you where you are hurting(agro), get more offensive stats(you didn't mention your crit%), make sure your aa's are for dps, and hate to say it but learn how to hold agro better with what you got(be it ca rotation, timing ca's, not blowing every snap agro to get something off a dps toon).  That is all I can really say.  I will say again, I have no issues holding agro against high dps toons when I build a group.

Edit: if you want to check out my guardian his name is Githil from the permafrost server.

[Wasuna]

Oh no. I've played this game to long to ignore DPS for agro in terms of being a good tank. MY solo stats are: DPS~30%, DA ~50%, Haste ~50% and my mele critical is ~30%. I can't really remmember the mele critical but that seems right. I can easily keep agro off a Mythical Conjour pet in Plane Shift (wife is a conjour). Just don't put anybody else in the group that can even remotly do DPS or I'm screwed.

Just an update, went into a TSO instance with my Troubador. MT was a SK. He'd run into a room, Agro everything there (like 10 yellow con ^^^ and groups) and then AOE lifetap. I couldn't tell how much the healer was healing but her power never went below 90%.

Who the heck said Guardians have an edge in Survivability? I could have run in there with my Guardian but I would have been stomped to the ground and if my healers would have even TRIED to keep me up they would have been killed before me.

Now I'll mention the DPS. This SK tank was doing 8-10K DPS on all these fights with all of his AoE on these massive pulls. How the heck does SoE think this is even marginally balanced? I get illusionst buffed and I can't even do 3K DPS when tanking in offensive while duel weilding (Mythical and VP fabled off hand), 100% haste, 80% DA and 2-3 damage shileds on me.

Still waiting for somebody to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

[tyler001]

anyone on here?

[RafaelSmith]

Wasuna wrote:

Oh no. I've played this game to long to ignore DPS for agro in terms of being a good tank. MY solo stats are: DPS~30%, DA ~50%, Haste ~50% and my mele critical is ~30%. I can't really remmember the mele critical but that seems right. I can easily keep agro off a Mythical Conjour pet in Plane Shift (wife is a conjour). Just don't put anybody else in the group that can even remotly do DPS or I'm screwed.

Just an update, went into a TSO instance with my Troubador. MT was a SK. He'd run into a room, Agro everything there (like 10 yellow con ^^^ and groups) and then AOE lifetap. I couldn't tell how much the healer was healing but her power never went below 90%.

Who the heck said Guardians have an edge in Survivability? I could have run in there with my Guardian but I would have been stomped to the ground and if my healers would have even TRIED to keep me up they would have been killed before me.

Now I'll mention the DPS. This SK tank was doing 8-10K DPS on all these fights with all of his AoE on these massive pulls. How the heck does SoE think this is even marginally balanced? I get illusionst buffed and I can't even do 3K DPS when tanking in offensive while duel weilding (Mythical and VP fabled off hand), 100% haste, 80% DA and 2-3 damage shileds on me.

Still waiting for somebody to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I think in my self buffed DPS/Duel Wield/O-stance setup I run around 84% melee crit, 60%ish DA, 35%ish DPS, 60% HASTE, +750ish CA and its still a nightmare when grouped with serious DPS classes......especially the AE variety.

And I too have witnessed the same thing with SKs that in no way show any signs of being disadvanteged in terms of "surviveability", aggro or threat generation. The best of all worlds without any obvious sacrifice.

I try to pull as few mobs as possible.......SK guildmate tries to pull as many as possible =P

[Giliad]

http://www.eq2flames.com/guardians/...an-dummies.html

this was an excellent article by Fungie and most of the best tanks in the game agree and have commented.

[RafaelSmith]

Giliad@Befallen wrote:

http://www.eq2flames.com/guardians/...an-dummies.html

this was an excellent article by Fungie and most of the best tanks in the game agree and have commented.

Yes, that is one of the few useful threads on flames.

[Yimway]

Giliad@Befallen wrote:

http://www.eq2flames.com/guardians/...an-dummies.html

this was an excellent article by Fungie and most of the best tanks in the game agree and have commented.

Now only if Fungie was a great tank...