Solo shard aquisition

[hellfire]

Just mentor and unmentor to grey out a zone...get 8-9 shards a day.Took me  a month of doing this once  every couple days to get the100 shards for mount  and t2 armor.if dont have second account get friend or pay a lev 50-60 some coin.

It nots hard .

[erin]

Bigron@Unrest wrote:

Just mentor and unmentor to grey out a zone...get 8-9 shards a day.Took me  a month of doing this once  every couple days to get the100 shards for mount  and t2 armor.if dont have second account get friend or pay a lev 50-60 some coin.

It nots hard .

I don't quite get how people do this.  I mean I understand the concept but...

Of the 8 mentorable zones (3 CL, 3 EF, 2 LS), odds are good that for at least half the quests you have to clear half or more of the zone.  That takes time.  Even if you are 80, mentoring a level 50, that has to take 30, 45 minutes.  So you are talking about a minimum of 2 hours or so to aquire those 8 shards?  Or I'm really really missing something.  And I mean, bare minimum, assuming of the 8 zones, 4 quests are the non-kill or quick kill zones (like kill 5 mobs type, not kill 30 mobs type).

[Noaani]

erin wrote:

Considering that most raiders cried heavily that the T2 TSO Shard gear wasn't worth their time, can we all agree that T2 Shard gear is primarily for grouping, maybe an entry into Raiding but definitely not raid gear?

So being able to aquire T1 shard gear makes you able to group instances, being able to aquire T2 Shard gear makes you able to do all the group instances in TSO, even the harder ones.

Yes?

So what's the big objection to being able, over a very long time, to aquire gear?  It requires 150 shards to get a full set of T2 armor, not accounting for the jewelry, swords, shields, etc.

At 1 shard a day, at least 6 months.  So in 6 months your dedicated solo player can aquire the gear to do the harder group instances.

So what's the big deal about that?

T1 shard armour is mid range legendary, T2 is top end legendary.

If a solo player wanted the gear to do the harder group instances, why not simply start with the easier group instances like everyone else. Either they can/will group, or they can't/wont. There is no middle ground. If they wont group, they have no need for T1 or T2 shard gear. If they do group, they have it avalible to them.

[hellfire]

erin wrote:

Bigron@Unrest wrote:

Just mentor and unmentor to grey out a zone...get 8-9 shards a day.Took me  a month of doing this once  every couple days to get the100 shards for mount  and t2 armor.if dont have second account get friend or pay a lev 50-60 some coin.

It nots hard .

I don't quite get how people do this.  I mean I understand the concept but...

Of the 8 mentorable zones (3 CL, 3 EF, 2 LS), odds are good that for at least half the quests you have to clear half or more of the zone.  That takes time.  Even if you are 80, mentoring a level 50, that has to take 30, 45 minutes.  So you are talking about a minimum of 2 hours or so to aquire those 8 shards?  Or I'm really really missing something.  And I mean, bare minimum, assuming of the 8 zones, 4 quests are the non-kill or quick kill zones (like kill 5 mobs type, not kill 30 mobs type).

2 hours for the 8 zones....sounds bout right....thats better rate then running the zones them selfs....so im fine with that.

And kill 30 mobs is usually  like 5-7  mob grp encounters dont take much time.

This is casually you can do this everyday and if persitant get about 250 shards in a months time

[LordPazuzu]

Getting shards is easy enough as it is.

[simpwrx02]

Kendricke wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Giland@Guk wrote:

fabled items drop from heroic content all the time.

And they are not the same as raid dropped fabled items...

Exactly.

Shards are rewards for group level content.  If you want to create an alternate system of rewards for solo content which can be exchanged for solo rated rewards, I could accept that.  If, instead, you're trying to create a system that allows you to bypass heroic content but still gain heroic rewards, I'm most certainly against.

I totally agree if the intent of the OP was to argue to put in a new mechanic that gave out lets say 'pennies' instead of shards and the 'pennies' that are aquired from solo repeatable zones/quests give you acess to solo based gear, then I would be all for that as well.  However being a synic I believe that the OP simply wants the herioc zone shard gear and dosent want to be required to do the TSO instances to obtain them as it woudl force him to group to do herioc content for herioc gear.

[M0rticia]

Giland@Guk wrote:

Here is my idea to help people get shards when they just don't have time to group.

Before responding, read the whole thing.

Part 1

Put in a quest NPC that gives out 5 quests. Each quest can only be completed once per day. Basically, make this quest giver like the faction quests. "go kill x number of mobs" in some far off area, then come back. Each quest grants 30 gold. That is an income of 1.5 plat per day not counting drops.

Part 2

Near the shard merchants in TSO, put another quest giver. This guy gives 1 shard for the small donation of 5 plat. Making this a quest allows the shard to only be aquired once per day.

At 5 plat per shard and 1 per day, it would take approx 100 plat and 30+ days to get a full set of T1 legendary. So even if someone was swimming in plat, they STILL couldn't get a full set of t1 legendary shard armor for over a month. T2 shard armor would take over 3 months and cost over 500 plat. . Factoring in everything, it would take someone well over 1000 plat and 9ish months to gear up this way if they were so inclined. Personally, don't see a problem with that if that is how they want to spend their plat. The lowest cost shard piece would be 20 plat if created by a tradeskiller. T2 would be what, 90 plat per piece not counting the original t1 price?

This creates a great money sink, but with the part 1 quest giver, gives others the ability to "make money" to spend it this way also, but at a reduced rate.

What this might actually do is help folks "gear up" a bit faster. if they were a shard short or so, they could buy the shard to get the piece. The real goal is to get drops from the zones themselves, not live forever in shard armor. At the point someone is working on getting shard armor, they are past tradeskill created items and probably had already purchased handcrafted/mastercrafted to get to 80 anyway.

I am interested in hearing others take on this idea.

There are all ready daily quests that give faction and money in TSO. If you are a crafter and adventurer, you can make a plat and a half a day from doing very easy, solo quests. I do these quests almost every day.

Shards should be earned the way they are now, not bought. If you really want to buy shards, buy them on level channels like some people do. I prefer to earn my shards by grouping and completing quests. If you could buy shards from merchants, I think a lot of people (including myself) would be disappointed. They've all ready added a ton of solo and small group content. Why 'dumb down' the shard system and make it easier? Why take away the group dynamic for people that don't want to group? If you don't want to group, you don't get group rewards...it's pretty simple. Grouping to get shards is fun and I prefer to earn my shards with the current method. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

[Alienor]

Arguments quoted from M0rticia but have been brought up at least 1000 times before, so nothing against you personally:

and small group content. Why 'dumb down' the shard system and make it easier? Why take away the group dynamic for people that don't want to group? If you don't want to group, you don't get group rewards...it's pretty simple. Grouping to get shards is fun and I prefer to earn my shards with the current method. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

SCNR, but where again was the small group content in TSO?

As far as I understood the OP it is not about ppl not wanting to group and demanding more solo content. It is about people who just do not have the time to spend 3h in a row to get one instance done (imo killing all the trash mobs is as boring as doing rok solo quests btw and just a timesink). It is not that I do not want to group, it just takes too long for me to get the group running and run the instance, especially at non-peak times. I am not having arbitrary time at my leisure and when I have to go off, I have to leave the group. Do you really want to have me in your group under such preconditions? I doubt.

In Beta I was asked why I was running around in MC only and are trying to run a Guk instance. MC was the only I could get at that time and to gear up and do also TSO instances from time to time I think I would need the shards as almost nobody is doing RoK instances anymore. For soloing I definately do no need the TSO armor, sure, but it makes life easier as do ad3 spells for example. And I would like to group for TSO from time to time.

What am I supposed to do with one hour playtime? Bore me to death with crafting? Do the solo quests with the umpteens alt? Quit?

Oh, and btw, there is already a well known mechanism in the game to aqcuire shards solo, at least until it is "fixed". What about the folks doing it that way? Ban them all?

If everyone just wants to group in the game then why do we have so much threads about boxing, asking for the best solo farming class or hints about soloing nameds, why do so many people solo the group tradeskill instance? And why do we need just the 101st thread about solo vs grouping AGAIN? Maybe it is not because these folks want to annoy everybody else with their non-grouping attitude...

[dawy]

Apart from a couple of posts from the usual suspects suggesting "get a group" etc this thread has been most enjoyable to read,if only the devs would listen to a couple of ideas then i'm sure it would make TSO an expansion for ALL and not just groupers

[liveja]

Alienor wrote:

SCNR, but where again was the small group content in TSO?

When it was first launched, where was the "small group" content in ROK?

I don't quite recall much "small group content" in any of the other expacs either, but I guess someone will come along & tell me how they duo'd HOF the day KOS was released, & did it in MC gear & Adept 1 spells.

Edit: when I only have an hour or so to play, I generally don't even bother logging on. If I only had 1 hour or so a day to devote to gaming, I probably wouldn't play MMOs at all.

[liveja]

dawy wrote:

Apart from a couple of posts from the usual suspects suggesting "get a group"

OMG, I know! I mean, imagine people strongly suggesting that those who want to progress in GROUP CONTENT should, you know, maybe get a group???

I mean, how TOTALLY hardcore is that???? Get a GROUP?? That's just CRAZY talk.

/facepalm

[Kendricke]

erin wrote:

Considering that most raiders cried heavily that the T2 TSO Shard gear wasn't worth their time, can we all agree that T2 Shard gear is primarily for grouping, maybe an entry into Raiding but definitely not raid gear?

So being able to aquire T1 shard gear makes you able to group instances, being able to aquire T2 Shard gear makes you able to do all the group instances in TSO, even the harder ones.

Yes?

So what's the big objection to being able, over a very long time, to aquire gear?  It requires 150 shards to get a full set of T2 armor, not accounting for the jewelry, swords, shields, etc.

At 1 shard a day, at least 6 months.  So in 6 months your dedicated solo player can aquire the gear to do the harder group instances.

So what's the big deal about that?

Why does a "dedicated solo player" need to run "the harder group instances" anyway?  Could it be that the "dedicated solo player" actually groups as well?  If so, why the need for solo shards for group gear?

[nomatterwhat]

simpwrx02 wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Giland@Guk wrote:

fabled items drop from heroic content all the time.

And they are not the same as raid dropped fabled items...

Exactly.

Shards are rewards for group level content.  If you want to create an alternate system of rewards for solo content which can be exchanged for solo rated rewards, I could accept that.  If, instead, you're trying to create a system that allows you to bypass heroic content but still gain heroic rewards, I'm most certainly against.

I totally agree if the intent of the OP was to argue to put in a new mechanic that gave out lets say 'pennies' instead of shards and the 'pennies' that are aquired from solo repeatable zones/quests give you acess to solo based gear, then I would be all for that as well.  However being a synic I believe that the OP simply wants the herioc zone shard gear and dosent want to be required to do the TSO instances to obtain them as it woudl force him to group to do herioc content for herioc gear.

see you almost had me with your arguements, except you had to go ahead and diss the solo playerbase by calling their shards pennies.

You underscore the problem though, the difference between group rewards and solo rewards is night and day.  Penny shards?  I think not...  they shouldn't be as good as your precious group rewards, cause god forbid, you have an aneurysm worrying about other people's business... but they should at least be half as good.

[nomatterwhat]

Kendricke wrote:

erin wrote:

Considering that most raiders cried heavily that the T2 TSO Shard gear wasn't worth their time, can we all agree that T2 Shard gear is primarily for grouping, maybe an entry into Raiding but definitely not raid gear?

So being able to aquire T1 shard gear makes you able to group instances, being able to aquire T2 Shard gear makes you able to do all the group instances in TSO, even the harder ones.

Yes?

So what's the big objection to being able, over a very long time, to aquire gear?  It requires 150 shards to get a full set of T2 armor, not accounting for the jewelry, swords, shields, etc.

At 1 shard a day, at least 6 months.  So in 6 months your dedicated solo player can aquire the gear to do the harder group instances.

So what's the big deal about that?

Why does a "dedicated solo player" need to run "the harder group instances" anyway?  Could it be that the "dedicated solo player" actually groups as well?  If so, why the need for solo shards for group gear?

you may want to sit down as this might come as a bit of a shock...

dedicated solo players care about their toons as well.  dedicated solo players want nice equipment too.  dedicated solo players want to work towards improving their toon in every way as well.  so it's only natural that dedicated solo players want goals and shards to work towards as well, no?.

need some water or something?

see, currently the only way to achieve that is to cheat.  give solo players a way to work on this without cheating, and people might not cheat.  I don't see it as cheating though, I see it as the only real way to towards a goal.  and I'm glad I read these posts otherwise I would never thought about greying out the zone lol

[Kyusoath]

the attitude towards soloing is terrible, why do you hate solo'ers so much that you are automatically against giving them access to equal rewards ?

the reply that solo'ers don't need shard gear etc to solo is pathetic and childish, no one needs any of this gear or any thing in the game, unsubscribe and you'll do just fine, you don't need to play.

SOE should send a clear message, either give an option to get shards solo by some means or basically say solo is not welcome here and people who prefer to solo  or have little time to group can leave the game.

Why create a class like necro and then devote most of the content to groups that don't want a necro ?

Either force grouping or embrace solo'ers honestly, i've had enough. give people equal rewards for quests that are about difficulty not how many group members and how much they had to group to get the gear.

what exactly is the difference between some who spends the time in game in a group and someone that spends it solo ?

if i kill ten mobs on my own it takes longer and is harder than a group killing those same ten mobs is it not ? so soloing is takes longer and is harder but the rewards are pathetic compared to group/raid rewards. I play EQ2 as game i don't come here to make friends and compare epeens.

the mechanic we have that focuses on group/raid content that really began in EQ and is popularised by WoW is one that is fatally flawed and needs a real rethink. its just lazy. I avoid grouping as much as i can in game and in RL, you don't like soloers ? well would you like it better if you had to group from lvl1 ? those lvl1 mobs that need a full group to beat ? sound good to you ? in fact make it so you can't login until you have a group of 5 ? put a lobby in and when the group splits up you get kicked back to it you'll like that right ? no soloing at all ever ? this is an MMO right multiplayer all the time no choice in the matter.  why not just give groups a shard every third trash mob ? why not make it possible to /report anyone you see soloing and they get banned ?

[hellfire]

Alienor wrote:

Oh, and btw, there is already a well known mechanism in the game to aqcuire shards solo, at least until it is "fixed". What about the folks doing it that way? Ban them all?

What mentoring and unmentoring to grey a zone? Why would they ban anyone when they are allowing mentoring to stay and the ability to get shards from the quest rewards....unless i am missing something......there is nothing to  "fix".

[nomatterwhat]

Bigron@Unrest wrote:

Alienor wrote:

Oh, and btw, there is already a well known mechanism in the game to aqcuire shards solo, at least until it is "fixed". What about the folks doing it that way? Ban them all?

What mentoring and unmentoring to grey a zone? Why would they ban anyone when they are allowing mentoring to stay and the ability to get shards from the quest rewards....unless i am missing something......there is nothing to  "fix".

personally i hope this never gets fixed (although the guy who wrote it was making a point and probably doesn't want it fixed either).  partly because my "toon of the month" isn't 80 yet (working on my 4th warden btw).  I wouldn't need a toon of the month if there were a repeatable gameplay mechanic for solo'ers.  I shouldn't need to have 4 wardens and 2 monks lol.  This game needs repeatable solo lvl 80 content, cause quite frankly getting numbing spores for the first time isn't quite as exciting now.  Well I digress.

secondly like you said, it isn't broken and it's only fair really.  couldn't agree more.  lots of groups [Removed for Content] out zones, I lost count how many icy keep runs I went on where the zone got gimped.  why can't solo'ers do the same?

group players mentor to their advantage all the time, so should players who don't group.

[nomatterwhat]

Kyusoath wrote:

the attitude towards soloing is terrible, why do you hate solo'ers so much that you are automatically against giving them access to equal rewards ?

the reply that solo'ers don't need shard gear etc to solo is pathetic and childish, no one needs any of this gear or any thing in the game, unsubscribe and you'll do just fine, you don't need to play.

SOE should send a clear message, either give an option to get shards solo by some means or basically say solo is not welcome here and people who prefer to solo  or have little time to group can leave the game.

Why create a class like necro and then devote most of the content to groups that don't want a necro ?

Either force grouping or embrace solo'ers honestly, i've had enough. give people equal rewards for quests that are about difficulty not how many group members and how much they had to group to get the gear.

what exactly is the difference between some who spends the time in game in a group and someone that spends it solo ?

if i kill ten mobs on my own it takes longer and is harder than a group killing those same ten mobs is it not ? so soloing is takes longer and is harder but the rewards are pathetic compared to group/raid rewards. I play EQ2 as game i don't come here to make friends and compare epeens.

the mechanic we have that focuses on group/raid content that really began in EQ and is popularised by WoW is one that is fatally flawed and needs a real rethink. its just lazy. I avoid grouping as much as i can in game and in RL, you don't like soloers ? well would you like it better if you had to group from lvl1 ? those lvl1 mobs that need a full group to beat ? sound good to you ? in fact make it so you can't login until you have a group of 5 ? put a lobby in and when the group splits up you get kicked back to it you'll like that right ? no soloing at all ever ? this is an MMO right multiplayer all the time no choice in the matter.  why not just give groups a shard every third trash mob ? why not make it possible to /report anyone you see soloing and they get banned ?

EXACTLY...    ^--  what this post said.

couldn't agree more and I second the motion that the game needs to finally embrace solo players or tell them they are no longer welcome.  SOE treading on eggshells to appease both camps isn't working out so well.  Solo'ers still get the royal shaft to be honest and group players yell and complain for every inch solo'ers do get.

[simpwrx02]

nomatterwhat wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Giland@Guk wrote:

fabled items drop from heroic content all the time.

And they are not the same as raid dropped fabled items...

Exactly.

Shards are rewards for group level content.  If you want to create an alternate system of rewards for solo content which can be exchanged for solo rated rewards, I could accept that.  If, instead, you're trying to create a system that allows you to bypass heroic content but still gain heroic rewards, I'm most certainly against.

I totally agree if the intent of the OP was to argue to put in a new mechanic that gave out lets say 'pennies' instead of shards and the 'pennies' that are aquired from solo repeatable zones/quests give you acess to solo based gear, then I would be all for that as well.  However being a synic I believe that the OP simply wants the herioc zone shard gear and dosent want to be required to do the TSO instances to obtain them as it woudl force him to group to do herioc content for herioc gear.

see you almost had me with your arguements, except you had to go ahead and diss the solo playerbase by calling their shards pennies.

You underscore the problem though, the difference between group rewards and solo rewards is night and day.  Penny shards?  I think not...  they shouldn't be as good as your precious group rewards, cause god forbid, you have an aneurysm worrying about other people's business... but they should at least be half as good.

good lord I just picked an arbitrary term how about if we called them big macs or maybe whoopers, or coudl have called them diamonds, you look to deep to the meanings of my words.  I picked penny probably because I saw a penny on my computer desk.  And to be clear what is a shard anyways as to me it sounds like a piece of scrap like a shard of glass which is normally unwanted by everyone.  It isnt like shards are called dollars so I picked pennies to degrade the solo aspect, get over yourself and get a hoover, I think you have some sand that needs to be vacuumed.

[nomatterwhat]

simpwrx02 wrote:

nomatterwhat wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Giland@Guk wrote:

fabled items drop from heroic content all the time.

And they are not the same as raid dropped fabled items...

Exactly.

Shards are rewards for group level content.  If you want to create an alternate system of rewards for solo content which can be exchanged for solo rated rewards, I could accept that.  If, instead, you're trying to create a system that allows you to bypass heroic content but still gain heroic rewards, I'm most certainly against.

I totally agree if the intent of the OP was to argue to put in a new mechanic that gave out lets say 'pennies' instead of shards and the 'pennies' that are aquired from solo repeatable zones/quests give you acess to solo based gear, then I would be all for that as well.  However being a synic I believe that the OP simply wants the herioc zone shard gear and dosent want to be required to do the TSO instances to obtain them as it woudl force him to group to do herioc content for herioc gear.

see you almost had me with your arguements, except you had to go ahead and diss the solo playerbase by calling their shards pennies.

You underscore the problem though, the difference between group rewards and solo rewards is night and day.  Penny shards?  I think not...  they shouldn't be as good as your precious group rewards, cause god forbid, you have an aneurysm worrying about other people's business... but they should at least be half as good.

good lord I just picked an arbitrary term how about if we called them big macs or maybe whoopers, or coudl have called them diamonds, you look to deep to the meanings of my words.  I picked penny probably because I saw a penny on my computer desk.  And to be clear what is a shard anyways as to me it sounds like a piece of scrap like a shard of glass which is normally unwanted by everyone.  It isnt like shards are called dollars so I picked pennies to degrade the solo aspect, get over yourself and get a hoover, I think you have some sand that needs to be vacuumed.

uh huh.  I believe you.  thousands wouldn't.  but I just wanted you to know that I do.  anyway I was more making the point about the difference between solo and group rewards is night and day as it was to your penny comment lol.  so don't get too defensive now, don't want to see anymore blood vessels pop after worrying so intently about the affairs of solo players and making sure they only get doggie scraps.

[simpwrx02]

Kyusoath wrote:

the attitude towards soloing is terrible, why do you hate solo'ers so much that you are automatically against giving them access to equal rewards ?

the reply that solo'ers don't need shard gear etc to solo is pathetic and childish, no one needs any of this gear or any thing in the game, unsubscribe and you'll do just fine, you don't need to play.

SOE should send a clear message, either give an option to get shards solo by some means or basically say solo is not welcome here and people who prefer to solo  or have little time to group can leave the game.

Why create a class like necro and then devote most of the content to groups that don't want a necro ?

Either force grouping or embrace solo'ers honestly, i've had enough. give people equal rewards for quests that are about difficulty not how many group members and how much they had to group to get the gear.

what exactly is the difference between some who spends the time in game in a group and someone that spends it solo ?

if i kill ten mobs on my own it takes longer and is harder than a group killing those same ten mobs is it not ? so soloing is takes longer and is harder but the rewards are pathetic compared to group/raid rewards. I play EQ2 as game i don't come here to make friends and compare epeens.

the mechanic we have that focuses on group/raid content that really began in EQ and is popularised by WoW is one that is fatally flawed and needs a real rethink. its just lazy. I avoid grouping as much as i can in game and in RL, you don't like soloers ? well would you like it better if you had to group from lvl1 ? those lvl1 mobs that need a full group to beat ? sound good to you ? in fact make it so you can't login until you have a group of 5 ? put a lobby in and when the group splits up you get kicked back to it you'll like that right ? no soloing at all ever ? this is an MMO right multiplayer all the time no choice in the matter.  why not just give groups a shard every third trash mob ? why not make it possible to /report anyone you see soloing and they get banned ?

Actually you need top end legnedary gear to do top end herioc instances and you need top end raid gear to do top end raid mobs, as is clear by the fact that all of the raid zones have yet to be cleared.

Groups only dont want a necro cuz most groups are sheep that just listen to people who talk about min/max to the ultimate extreme.  Personally the necros I group with are very good at the class and any group that turns any of them down is foolish.  Also Necro was a huge flavor of the year class and many bad players rely on pet classes to make up for thier lack of true understanding of the game, however there are also many talented summoners that excell greatly at this game.

I still have yet to see a valid arguement about why soloer need shards as a reward to a solo quest other than the round about way of sayign I pay $15/month therefore I deserve it and any who disagree with me are pathetic and childish, which is a very valid arguement and if only McCain would have used that he would surely have gotten elected....

The difference between people that spend time solo and in a group in EQ2 are the types of mobs they fight, groups tend to fight herioc mobs which have more health, do more damage and are overall harder to kill, where as soloers fight non herioc mobs which are "DESIGNED" around a single player being able to defeat them, and a ^ named requireing a challenge to a solo person.  Oh and people that form raids they fight epic mobs which are much harder than either herioc or non herioc mobs.

Now for your last paragraph wow a little bit fo an exageration, since because you cant do solo quests for shards your answer is to create a lobby and form up  group in the lobby prior to even logging into the game, well on the bright side you clearly look at all sdes other than your own narrow point fo view, because adventuring is clearly the ONLY thing to do in EQ2, all of those crafters and harvesters you simply already consider them second or third class people with no right to breath the same air as you do, I guess we all need to strive to be like you and play a MMO as a consol game and avoid any human interaction at all.

[simpwrx02]

nomatterwhat wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

nomatterwhat wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Kendricke wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Giland@Guk wrote:

fabled items drop from heroic content all the time.

And they are not the same as raid dropped fabled items...

Exactly.

Shards are rewards for group level content.  If you want to create an alternate system of rewards for solo content which can be exchanged for solo rated rewards, I could accept that.  If, instead, you're trying to create a system that allows you to bypass heroic content but still gain heroic rewards, I'm most certainly against.

I totally agree if the intent of the OP was to argue to put in a new mechanic that gave out lets say 'pennies' instead of shards and the 'pennies' that are aquired from solo repeatable zones/quests give you acess to solo based gear, then I would be all for that as well.  However being a synic I believe that the OP simply wants the herioc zone shard gear and dosent want to be required to do the TSO instances to obtain them as it woudl force him to group to do herioc content for herioc gear.

see you almost had me with your arguements, except you had to go ahead and diss the solo playerbase by calling their shards pennies.

You underscore the problem though, the difference between group rewards and solo rewards is night and day.  Penny shards?  I think not...  they shouldn't be as good as your precious group rewards, cause god forbid, you have an aneurysm worrying about other people's business... but they should at least be half as good.

good lord I just picked an arbitrary term how about if we called them big macs or maybe whoopers, or coudl have called them diamonds, you look to deep to the meanings of my words.  I picked penny probably because I saw a penny on my computer desk.  And to be clear what is a shard anyways as to me it sounds like a piece of scrap like a shard of glass which is normally unwanted by everyone.  It isnt like shards are called dollars so I picked pennies to degrade the solo aspect, get over yourself and get a hoover, I think you have some sand that needs to be vacuumed.

uh huh.  I believe you.  thousands wouldn't.  but I just wanted you to know that I do.  anyway I was more making the point about the difference between solo and group rewards is night and day as it was to your penny comment lol.  so don't get too defensive now, don't want to see anymore blood vessels pop after worrying so intently about the affairs of solo players and making sure they only get doggie scraps.

And solo vs group rewards should be night and day as well as solo to epic or group to epic are also night and day.  No blood vessels were harmed in the writing of this.

As far as doggie scraps lol it is more about risk vs reward most solo mobs I can one shot with my wizzy not much of a risk there which is why the rewards are not as great.

[Kendricke]

nomatterwhat wrote:

... you had to go ahead and diss the solo playerbase ... 

I'm a soloer.  No, really I am.  I solo across multiple characters most of the time.  In fact, I have higher level characters that have never grouped - not once.  You could even say I literally wrote the book on Templar soloing, as I spend a great deal of time helping out fellow Templars who feel our class isn't able to solo effectively (so I've written multiple guides in the Templar forums on exactly that - how to solo as a Templar).

I also group.  I also tradeskill.  I also raid.  I also play the broker (I've written guides on how to do this, also). 

So when you say "the solo playerbase", you just described me as well.  In fact, you probably just described a good deal of players who also group or raid or tradeskill also.  This idea of the dedicated, hardcore/casual, only-ever-solos simply doesn't paint an accurate picture of any significant percentage of the playerbase.  Most players participate in many types of content within the game. 

...and just as I'd argue that we shouldn't see high end epic level gear dropping in heroic instances, I don't feel we should see higher end heroic level gear as a result of solo play. 

[Alienor]

Bigron@Unrest wrote:

Alienor wrote:

Oh, and btw, there is already a well known mechanism in the game to aqcuire shards solo, at least until it is "fixed". What about the folks doing it that way? Ban them all?

What mentoring and unmentoring to grey a zone? Why would they ban anyone when they are allowing mentoring to stay and the ability to get shards from the quest rewards....unless i am missing something......there is nothing to  "fix".

The devs "are looking at it" as stated by Kiara in another thread of these, whatever this means *shrug*  Beside that I am with you. Most people however seem to think that soloing instances for shards this way is very very naughty and should be fixed.

[Kendricke]

Kyusoath wrote:

the attitude towards soloing is terrible, why do you hate solo'ers so much that you are automatically against giving them access to equal rewards ?

I solo.  I love to solo.  I've written guides helping other players learn how to solo better.  Obviously, I don't hate soloers. 

I also tradeskill.  I'm not into tradeskilling as much as other players though.  Some players tradeskill to earn exclusive tradeskilling rewards.  If I want to earn those rewards - such as the Earring of the Solstice - that means I have to tradeskill to earn that reward.  I can't go out and raid for an Earring of the Solstice.  I can't pick one up running Lower Guk.  I can't quest for an Earring of the Solstice in Moors of Ykesha.  I can't buy one on the broker. 

If I want that exclusive tradeskill reward, I need to tradeskill more.  If you want group shard armor, you need to group more. 

[nomatterwhat]

simpwrx02 wrote:

And solo vs group rewards should be night and day as well as solo to epic or group to epic are also night and day.  No blood vessels were harmed in the writing of this.

As far as doggie scraps lol it is more about risk vs reward most solo mobs I can one shot with my wizzy not much of a risk there which is why the rewards are not as great.

Look, it's not that I don't agree with you.  To a point I do.

Except...   Firstly, unless your wizard is a tank, I don't want to hear it.  Sure you might get aggro, sure you might be in a group with a crappy tank...  so yeah, there is a LITTLE bit more risk.  Just not a whole lot more because you're not a tank.

Secondly it all comes down to working towards goals.  Having a solo shard system is a good idea I think, like I said before you can even add in stuff everyone wants such as house items etc.  It just has to have better-than-MC gear to make it fair.  Crafters won't loose out cause I'm sure they'll get the recipes as well.

So yes, it should be different.  And no, it shouldn't be night and day.  It should be very respectable gear that maybe isn't quite legendary standard.  What is it now though?  Bupkis 'cause there ain't even a system!  Well that's ok...  I'm going to try out Bigron's suggestion later.  If they nerf it, fine with me... but if they nerf it before having an alternative solo system, I'd go back to being dismayed about eq2 again... and I only just started to like it again.

[nomatterwhat]

Kendricke wrote:

nomatterwhat wrote:

... you had to go ahead and diss the solo playerbase ... 

I'm a soloer.  No, really I am.  I solo across multiple characters most of the time.  In fact, I have higher level characters that have never grouped - not once.  You could even say I literally wrote the book on Templar soloing, as I spend a great deal of time helping out fellow Templars who feel our class isn't able to solo effectively (so I've written multiple guides in the Templar forums on exactly that - how to solo as a Templar).

I also group.  I also tradeskill.  I also raid.  I also play the broker (I've written guides on how to do this, also). 

So when you say "the solo playerbase", you just described me as well.  In fact, you probably just described a good deal of players who also group or raid or tradeskill also.  This idea of the dedicated, hardcore/casual, only-ever-solos simply doesn't paint an accurate picture of any significant percentage of the playerbase.  Most players participate in many types of content within the game. 

...and just as I'd argue that we shouldn't see high end epic level gear dropping in heroic instances, I don't feel we should see higher end heroic level gear as a result of solo play. 

[edited because I wasn't thinking]

yeah, I do this with my boss... get into debates even though we're saying the same thing.  so I'm going to catch myself here.

so I agree with you...  and since the election quotes are being thrown around,  I'll say this ["there isn't a Solo Norrath, There isn't a Grouping-Raiding Norrath etc], There is the... "  yeah corny I know but I happen to agree with the sentiment.

Anyway, hats off to you about solo'n a templar.  Only way I managed was to create a high elf templar, betray to an inquisitor... then double back to a templar at the end lol....  then figure out I don't have any connection with the class and re-roll an inquisitor-for-life toon.  /shrug.

[Gisallo]

simpwrx02 wrote:

I still have yet to see a valid arguement about why soloer need shards as a reward to a solo quest other than the round about way of sayign I pay $15/month therefore I deserve it and any who disagree with me are pathetic and childish, which is a very valid arguement and if only McCain would have used that he would surely have gotten elected....

First let me say that while I do solo a lot in the lower levels once I get say into the 60's I am almost always grouping, do occassionally raid, have one toon completely sharded out with some shards in the back, so I am not going "QQ woe is me here".

This expansion for the most part (thus far) has been about the shards.  There aren't even nameds that drop stuff like the names in RoK.  I think much of the issue is soloers saying "there is nothing here for me".

Now people can say "there was nothing for groupers in RoK."  Thats crap.  There was plenty of instance content and plenty of items to farm for to get you to go in there to get it.

Now maybe once the Lavastorm revamp comes out some of this will go away.  Maybe there will be enough content and some decent rewards that make the soloers feel like they are actually seen as an important part of the customer base this expansion.

As it stands now though this expansion is basically "farm for shards."  Thats what its about period end of story.  If you are not groupers/raiders like me and you there is NOTHING in this expansion for you except maybe a weeks worth (if you are slow) of quest lines before the content is exhausted, then its off to grind city writs until your eyes bleed or roll another toon.

Thats why I don't see any problem with a LONG quest line which is "possible" but not a certainty to complete solo (like Thugga) that could result in a shard or two, or a "pebbles" type quest similar to the stuff in Fallen Dynasty, that after you get say 100 of them you can get a shard (instead of a title).  There would still be the clear advantage to grouping that with some hard core grinding yoiu could be kitted out in the entry level void shard stuff in less than two weeks vs.  months and the soloers would still feel like they were actually included in the community.  On top of that remember groups have access to the Legendary and fabled drops, masters etc that are better than the void shard stuff to continue with the balance.

[Kyusoath]

simpwrx02 wrote:

Kyusoath wrote:

My post

Actually you need top end legnedary gear to do top end herioc instances and you need top end raid gear to do top end raid mobs, as is clear by the fact that all of the raid zones have yet to be cleared.

Groups only dont want a necro cuz most groups are sheep that just listen to people who talk about min/max to the ultimate extreme.  Personally the necros I group with are very good at the class and any group that turns any of them down is foolish.  Also Necro was a huge flavor of the year class and many bad players rely on pet classes to make up for thier lack of true understanding of the game, however there are also many talented summoners that excell greatly at this game.

I still have yet to see a valid arguement about why soloer need shards as a reward to a solo quest other than the round about way of sayign I pay $15/month therefore I deserve it and any who disagree with me are pathetic and childish, which is a very valid arguement and if only McCain would have used that he would surely have gotten elected....

The difference between people that spend time solo and in a group in EQ2 are the types of mobs they fight, groups tend to fight herioc mobs which have more health, do more damage and are overall harder to kill, where as soloers fight non herioc mobs which are "DESIGNED" around a single player being able to defeat them, and a ^ named requireing a challenge to a solo person.  Oh and people that form raids they fight epic mobs which are much harder than either herioc or non herioc mobs.

Now for your last paragraph wow a little bit fo an exageration, since because you cant do solo quests for shards your answer is to create a lobby and form up  group in the lobby prior to even logging into the game, well on the bright side you clearly look at all sdes other than your own narrow point fo view, because adventuring is clearly the ONLY thing to do in EQ2, all of those crafters and harvesters you simply already consider them second or third class people with no right to breath the same air as you do, I guess we all need to strive to be like you and play a MMO as a consol game and avoid any human interaction at all.

Of is a two letter word, and you cannot even spell that correctly, i'm not complaining about your spelling just your idiocy. Also there exists this thing called sarcasm you don't quite seem to have heard of it you should look that up.

My argument was not that solo'ers need shards, it is that no one needs shards or anything else in the game, they want them. The point of the post that seemed to go well over your head, it was an attack on the forced grouping mentality and the attitude that group play is more important than solo play. The concept of giving solo players a reward similar to one achieved through raiding or grouping is horrifying to E [Removed for Content] waving players such as yourself, who do utilise Heroic content but cannot actually spell Heroic.

[simpwrx02]

Kyusoath wrote:

simpwrx02 wrote:

Kyusoath wrote:

My post

Actually you need top end legnedary gear to do top end herioc instances and you need top end raid gear to do top end raid mobs, as is clear by the fact that all of the raid zones have yet to be cleared.

Groups only dont want a necro cuz most groups are sheep that just listen to people who talk about min/max to the ultimate extreme.  Personally the necros I group with are very good at the class and any group that turns any of them down is foolish.  Also Necro was a huge flavor of the year class and many bad players rely on pet classes to make up for thier lack of true understanding of the game, however there are also many talented summoners that excell greatly at this game.

I still have yet to see a valid arguement about why soloer need shards as a reward to a solo quest other than the round about way of sayign I pay $15/month therefore I deserve it and any who disagree with me are pathetic and childish, which is a very valid arguement and if only McCain would have used that he would surely have gotten elected....

The difference between people that spend time solo and in a group in EQ2 are the types of mobs they fight, groups tend to fight herioc mobs which have more health, do more damage and are overall harder to kill, where as soloers fight non herioc mobs which are "DESIGNED" around a single player being able to defeat them, and a ^ named requireing a challenge to a solo person.  Oh and people that form raids they fight epic mobs which are much harder than either herioc or non herioc mobs.

Now for your last paragraph wow a little bit fo an exageration, since because you cant do solo quests for shards your answer is to create a lobby and form up  group in the lobby prior to even logging into the game, well on the bright side you clearly look at all sdes other than your own narrow point fo view, because adventuring is clearly the ONLY thing to do in EQ2, all of those crafters and harvesters you simply already consider them second or third class people with no right to breath the same air as you do, I guess we all need to strive to be like you and play a MMO as a consol game and avoid any human interaction at all.

Of is a two letter word, and you cannot even spell that correctly, i'm not complaining about your spelling just your idiocy. Also there exists this thing called sarcasm you don't quite seem to have heard of it you should look that up.

My argument was not that solo'ers need shards, it is that no one needs shards or anything else in the game, they want them. The point of the post that seemed to go well over your head, it was an attack on the forced grouping mentality and the attitude that group play is more important than solo play. The concept of giving solo players a reward similar to one achieved through raiding or grouping is horrifying to E [Removed for Content] waving players such as yourself, who do utilise Heroic content but cannot actually spell Heroic.

Wow you got me I dont care how I spell /shrug dosent bother me in the least if some internet warrior such as yourself is able to point out a few misspelled words grats on winning in this epic game of [Removed for Content] by finding my faults.  Funny not complaining about my spelling, but mentioned it twice along with a personal insult awesome way to take the higher ground. 

But you do offer a valid rebutals which are summed up as .. you are an idiot, I used sarcasm and you wave [Removed for Content] around"  All of those are valid points of getting across no point. At which point was my post full of idoicy or are you just making a general statement? 

And your arguement that no one needs shards is a joke, people who group to do herioc content need shards to aquire better armour to complete the more difficult herioc zones, hence they are a reward for doing herioc zones.

Group play is more complex than solo play because it involves 6 people hence 6 people joined together to progress thier characters beyond what soloing could attain.  Soloing since there are 24 differenet classes, the mobs there need to be very easily designed as thier is no synergy in a single player, no people utilizing a wide varitey of skill sets to overcome a mob, simple 1 player vs 1 mob and it needs to be designed around the worst class at killing a mob solo.  Where the group content yes normally requires a tank/healer and 4 others, however certain combinations work better than others thus allowing for more complex and more difficult mobs to fight.