nice house for solo players - Page 2

Lethe5683 · 12-07-2008, 03:40 PM

There's still very nice houses that cost only money. The guild hosing is just cheaper since it requires a guild of a certain level and status.

Rijacki · 12-07-2008, 03:42 PM

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

valimar wrote:
I said is that I dont understand that there are no nice mounts for solo players and no nice houses. I did not say that solo players should not do an effort to earn one.
The same mounts and houses are available to all players, guild or not. They are just more expensive and do not require a guild rank or status. The only exception are guild halls. So I don't get your point.

Not every mount or house is available without being in a guild of a certain level.

In Freeport and Qeynos, the 5-room houses are guild only (personally, I think they could 'light up' another doorway with an expensive non-status version). All of the status housing options in Kelethin, Neriak, and Garowyn have a non-status version.

Mounts, though, for all the runspeed levels, there are non-status mounts, but not all mount types with their bonuses have non-status variations (personally I see nothing wrong with that at all). There are non-status Rhinos, non-status 45% carpets for completing a quest, non-status horse up to 40% runspeed, non-status 45% wargs for completing a quest, and even an up to 52% dire bear for just buying the retail box of TSO. There are also dire bears for shards (which were missed in the files going live with TSO) which won't require any status or guild membership and will be 65% with nice buffs.

I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort.

Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds.

Spyderbite · 12-07-2008, 04:03 PM

Rijacki wrote:

Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds.

Best analogy.. EVAH! SMILEY

Lolianna · 12-07-2008, 04:33 PM

When guild halls were released my husband and I talked about how neat it would be to have one of our own. Mostly to decorate, LOL. We love to decorate. So, on Oct 11th, shortly after their release, we formed a little guild of our own for our alts. I worked on tradeskill writs and made sure to grab adventure writs each time I went out to quest in ToS. I nearly always wind up having a quest that requires killing mobs that are on my adventure writs. I also purchased a few status items off the broker here and there to help the guild along.

Six weeks later we dinged level 30 and moved into our first guild hall. It's awesome; our alts are fully set up to craft in one area now. We are enjoying it tremendously and looking forward to a t2 guild hall already. Yes, we know it will be more work, but, the amenities are so fun and the pride we have in our hall was worth the effort. If you really, really want to share in the 'guild benefits' you can... just get motivated and do it SMILEY .

Dasein · 12-07-2008, 04:36 PM

Rijacki wrote:

I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort.
Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds.

Unless you play 6 accounts, being in a guild is not solely the choice of the individual, but requires others to allow that person to join or at least to assist in forming the guild. That individual 'choices' rely on the consent of others is something that seems cosnistently overlooked. I cannot simply choose to be in a guild, a gorup, a raid or any other voluntary player association - I can choose to try and gain membership in one of these associations, but the choice of actually being allowed in is not mine.

As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have?

Spyderbite · 12-07-2008, 04:51 PM

Dasein wrote:

As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have?

I'm going through exactly that right now with the Jack Russell Terrier Owner Society.. 3 visits/interviews just so my puppy who hasn't even opened his eyes yet, is registered. Do I hold the strict requirements against the association? Nope. They prevent bad/neglective dog owners from own the pets they don't deserve.

Darwanda · 12-07-2008, 05:38 PM

There's a difference between being solo and unguilded. However, I agree there are significant benefits for guilded players (especially the porting capabilities), but I don't think it precludes you from accomplishing anything.

At any rate, for anyone on Antonia Bayle who wants their own guild...I have a lvl 10 guild free for the taking. Just send a mail to Darticia and I'll hand over leadership and disguild myself.

montor · 12-07-2008, 06:33 PM

Mourden@Crushbone wrote:

Darkwind@The Bazaar wrote:
Op you are beating a dead horse here no one cares if us solo'ers have nice stuff but us.
Although we can get some pretty nice houses if you are willing to pay the upkeep.
Joining a guild does not mean you have to group or even raid and then you can get crafting tables for your house.
I've been called anti social many times because I dont group often but my job can call me away at any time so I dont want to leave a group early.
But to say no one cares about soloers having nice gear, I don't get that at all. There's solo questlines that reward Legendary and even Fabled items. If solo questlines rewarded the same level of gear as grouping or raiding, why would anyone else bother to play if they enjoy that facet of the game more? This game caters to everyone, and i'd say it does a pretty decent job.

I'm pretty happy with what I can obtain in the game I dont need raid gear and dont really care if I have the fastest mount.

I guess what really gets me is the attitude of some people about solo players it's like they think we are bad for the game.

I'm lucky though I am in a great guild and they understand why I cant always group.

Spyderbite · 12-07-2008, 06:43 PM

Darkwind@The Bazaar wrote:

I'm lucky though I am in a great guild and they understand why I cant always group.

That's not Luck.. that's just a great attitude. SMILEY

Kaberu · 12-07-2008, 06:56 PM

Dasein wrote:

Rijacki wrote:
I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort.
Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds.
Unless you play 6 accounts, being in a guild is not solely the choice of the individual, but requires others to allow that person to join or at least to assist in forming the guild. That individual 'choices' rely on the consent of others is something that seems cosnistently overlooked. I cannot simply choose to be in a guild, a gorup, a raid or any other voluntary player association - I can choose to try and gain membership in one of these associations, but the choice of actually being allowed in is not mine.
As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have?

But to afford the lamborghini you need a sizable income. Aside from inheriting that, you need to either run your own business which involves getting a bunch of people together to work for or with you, or you need to become the leader in a business. How is that any different than needed to be in a guild to earn the resources to afford something in game?

Kendricke · 12-07-2008, 07:11 PM

Dasein wrote:

Rijacki wrote:
I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort.
Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds.
Unless you play 6 accounts, being in a guild is not solely the choice of the individual, but requires others to allow that person to join or at least to assist in forming the guild. That individual 'choices' rely on the consent of others is something that seems cosnistently overlooked. I cannot simply choose to be in a guild, a gorup, a raid or any other voluntary player association - I can choose to try and gain membership in one of these associations, but the choice of actually being allowed in is not mine.
As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have?

If money truly is no object, you can form a single person guild very, very easily.

You tell Channel 1-9 (1): Paying 1pp each to the next five people who join a group with me in Qeynos Harbor so I can form a guild.

Rijacki · 12-07-2008, 07:22 PM

Kendricke wrote:

Dasein wrote:
Rijacki wrote:
I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort.
Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds.
Unless you play 6 accounts, being in a guild is not solely the choice of the individual, but requires others to allow that person to join or at least to assist in forming the guild. That individual 'choices' rely on the consent of others is something that seems cosnistently overlooked. I cannot simply choose to be in a guild, a gorup, a raid or any other voluntary player association - I can choose to try and gain membership in one of these associations, but the choice of actually being allowed in is not mine.
As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have?
If money truly is no object, you can form a single person guild very, very easily.
You tell Channel 1-9 (1): Paying 1pp each to the next five people who join a group with me in Qeynos Harbor so I can form a guild.

And then you buy oooooodles of the status drop items to level quickly.

As for being "fair" if you have to be a member of a club.. There are many many many organisations which have an excluse model or version of something. While the general public can buy widget A, the more impressive widget B is only available to the Widget Owners of America or even just to a subset of that group.

Heck, we just got home from grocery shopping and there's a great example there. We get a vast number of discounts and right now even a gas card for a certain dollar amount of purchases, but only if we join their club.

And for the comment about needing to be allowed to join a guild... ONE - there are A LOT of guilds on every server, even a lot of guilds that are at the level cap. You aren't required to be in only one exclusive guild on the server. TWO - you only need 5 other people for about 15 minutes tops to form your own guild. There are MANY who have done it and have even leveled that guild up in order to obtain certain rewards. In both cases, nothing is stopping anyone from choosing to be in a guild.

Thunderthyze · 12-07-2008, 07:45 PM

Dasein wrote:

wullailhuit wrote:
Dasein wrote:
steelbadger wrote:
People need to get their head around the idea that a bonus given to one person or group is not the same as "punishing" the people who aren't in that group.
Except it has the same effect.
Umm....No it doesn't
What is important is the relative differences between two (or more) things - increasing one or decreasing the other has the same impact on the relative difference. Giving guilds more benefits weakens the position of soloers compared to guilded players, and the perception is that SOE sees them as inferior players, not deserving of all the neat things guilded players get.

This is the part you obviously can't get your head around Dasein. Guild halls do not weaken soloers. A soloers ability remains exactly the same. What it does do is give guilds more options and benefits. If you, as a soloer, decide you want those benefits too then apply to join a guild with a guild hall. There is nothing stopping you. You can even still solo exclusively if that is what you want. Of course I wouldn't expect you to take advantage of that option to your own ends and not offer any plat of SP to the guild escrow fund.

Zarador · 12-08-2008, 02:12 AM

As more than a few pointed out it's really quite simple.

Offer to pay strangers to help start up the Guild.
Purchase the status items off the broker (Joining an exchange server and inheriting enough real life money to buy enough platinum to facilitate this will help in the process greatly).
Level the Guild to level 30 and another 100 or so platinum and a few million more status and you have a usable solo T-1 Guild House!

Time consuming and cost effective? Probebly not.

Bohica · 12-08-2008, 04:57 PM

Think of the guild hall a a place of business. If you are not running/member of a business(guild), why would you need a guildhall? A guildhall is not just a a large house, it is a place where guilds do various guild type things. You'd think mine was a factory, what with all of the tradeskilling going on. A soloer should think of themselves as a contractor that works out of their home. No need for a storefront when you aren't there most of the time.

liveja · 12-08-2008, 07:02 PM

Aren't there still houses in all cities which require membership in a guild of a certain level to buy them? Like the big 5-room mansions & such?

I ask, because the OP wasn't talking about guild halls, so far as I can tell.

It's a pretty minor point, because the ability to buy a much bigger house has little-to-no effect on one's ability to solo, but it DOES have an effect on one's ability to thoroughly enjoy the game. I don't see a problem -- at all -- with removing the guild membership requirement from player housing, & perhaps instead replacing it with a status &/or faction requirement.

If I said something opposite to this earlier in this thread or elsewhere on this forum, I've changed my mind -- but only on this relatively minor issue. Frankly, I can't any longer see the point in maintaining guild membership requirements for mounts, either.

Dasein · 12-08-2008, 07:10 PM

Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:

Dasein wrote:
wullailhuit wrote:
Dasein wrote:
steelbadger wrote:
People need to get their head around the idea that a bonus given to one person or group is not the same as "punishing" the people who aren't in that group.
Except it has the same effect.
Umm....No it doesn't
What is important is the relative differences between two (or more) things - increasing one or decreasing the other has the same impact on the relative difference. Giving guilds more benefits weakens the position of soloers compared to guilded players, and the perception is that SOE sees them as inferior players, not deserving of all the neat things guilded players get.
This is the part you obviously can't get your head around Dasein. Guild halls do not weaken soloers. A soloers ability remains exactly the same. What it does do is give guilds more options and benefits. If you, as a soloer, decide you want those benefits too then apply to join a guild with a guild hall. There is nothing stopping you. You can even still solo exclusively if that is what you want. Of course I wouldn't expect you to take advantage of that option to your own ends and not offer any plat of SP to the guild escrow fund.

Guild halls right now do not 'weaken' soloers, in that guild halls do not offer anything that is not available in the game already, but I can assure you that the guild hall travel amenities make some things far easier and rally flags provide tremendous benefits that are only just being realized. I think as more players gain access to near instant travel anywhere in the game, quest and zone design will be changed to compensate, and this will leave players without such benefits behind.

Already, I don't think I've seen anyone open a portal in QH since guild halls went in, because the druid ring is one of the first things people get. Before, having portals available, or people willing to open them (sometimes for a price) was one of those conveniences anyone in QH and other high-traffic zones could expect, solo or guilded alike.

Travel times are also an issue when forming groups - my guildmates and I can get most anywhere in a matter of moments using flags, bells and portals from the guild hall. Someone without these benefits will likley have a harder time finding groups because people do not like to wait around for people to catch boats or wait for an airship. This is doubly true if you plan on doing multiple zones and need to hop all over the world. For a guild, this is not much of an issue, while someone relying on just the public transport available will have a trickier, and longer, time of it.

liveja · 12-08-2008, 10:21 PM

Dasein wrote:

Guild halls right now do not 'weaken' soloers, in that guild halls do not offer anything that is not available in the game already, but I can assure you that the guild hall travel amenities make some things far easier and rally flags provide tremendous benefits that are only just being realized. I think as more players gain access to near instant travel anywhere in the game, quest and zone design will be changed to compensate, and this will leave players without such benefits behind.

People who choose not to join guilds, choose to leave themselves behind. This is PRECISELY the same as people who choose not to group, choosing to leave themselves out of instances. There is no difference.

But the OP's point had nothing to do with guild halls, & virtually nothing you can put in any of the houses the OP was talking about would change that "left behind" issue, so talking about guildless people being "left behind" because of all the amenities of guild halls that they don't have is almost wholly meaningless.

There is even LESS reason to eschew guilds than there is to eschew grouping for instances. The benefits to being a guild member are huge, & I can guarantee that on EVERY SINGLE SERVER, one can find a "friends & family" style guild that will place absolutely NO restrictions on your behavior, require you to be anywhere, demand you spend even a single penny of your hard-earned coppers to support the guild, do even a single writ, etc. With that in mind, I'm pretty much suspicious -- yes, I'm saying it -- about people who continue to insist, or even imply, that they have an issue with joining guilds. I have to wonder how many of them have very bad reputations on their servers & THAT is why they can't find a group or a guild.

Kigneer · 12-08-2008, 10:43 PM

Dasein wrote:

Guild halls right now do not 'weaken' soloers, in that guild halls do not offer anything that is not available in the game already, but I can assure you that the guild hall travel amenities make some things far easier and rally flags provide tremendous benefits that are only just being realized.

:Cough: Harvest box (you know that bottomless box of mats, often filled by others and/or the broker)? :cough:

No longer does a guildie have to harvest 2000 roots to level, there's 12000 in the box for that tier to use, instead.

Then the 15 minute guild hall call.

The druid ring; portal and bells to go from Antonica to Zek.

Then everything but the collections agent right in your hall (and in our guild, everything is in the TS area -- banker; broker; seller; writs; harvesters; fuel merchant; rush and work order agents). Rush orders is but a step away, and for some officers, not even a step away -- they just move the agent next to them! lol

Let's not forget the 1hr fighting, speed buffs and mender (even a barber), either.

The training dummies.

The safefall "tower".

Guild halls are wonderful, and I'm so glad Gus put the 1000 plat down for it. But I can also understand how it feels to not have a T3 guild hall with all it's amenties. Worse, how abandoned the cities have become due to them, too (would've been better that they were in the center of the town, to draw "business" to home cities -- not take away from them, like a suburban sprawl).

As bad as it is, you can always join a higher level guild, then buy your house and leave the guild. It's not right, but nothing preventing it.

Thunderthyze · 12-09-2008, 08:18 AM

Kigneer wrote:

Dasein wrote:
Guild halls right now do not 'weaken' soloers, in that guild halls do not offer anything that is not available in the game already, but I can assure you that the guild hall travel amenities make some things far easier and rally flags provide tremendous benefits that are only just being realized.
:Cough: Harvest box (you know that bottomless box of mats, often filled by others and/or the broker)? :cough:
No longer does a guildie have to harvest 2000 roots to level, there's 12000 in the box for that tier to use, instead.

Just as a for instance the harvest box does NOT magically fill by itself. You have to keep prompting the harvest bots every couple of hours which only "find" around about 60~70 roots in that cycle. You are far better off harvesting yourself for the rate of return. The benefit arises from the prompting being done by any guild member around which means the harvesting can go on more or less 24/7. In other words, if you're a soloer and have this amenity to yourself you are highly unlikely to see ANY benefit whatsoever, quite apart from the incredible cost these things drain from your personal resources.

Birn · 12-09-2008, 08:54 AM

This must be a joke by the OP

And by reading some more posts many seems to believe things in the guild halls are Free, if they knew the upkeep and how much you need to pay to get a mender etc it wont take long before all egoist soloers dissapear SMILEY

Kigneer · 12-09-2008, 09:36 AM

Birn wrote:

This must be a joke by the OP
And by reading some more posts many seems to believe things in the guild halls are Free, if they knew the upkeep and how much you need to pay to get a mender etc it wont take long before all egoist soloers dissapear

Which is why I don't put in feyiron and succulent roots anymore, because even raiders and groupers even expect you to do the harvesting for them.

Guildies I know, I'll harvest for them individually as they help not only me some others, but for general use...nada...they have to harvest for themselves, or buy from folks like me who do. SMILEY

Dasein · 12-09-2008, 11:53 AM

Would people be opposed to putting a public druid ring in each city, which could port people for a price?

Unfeter · 12-09-2008, 12:09 PM

I am a solo player and have solo-ed 98% of my time in this game. I am level 80 and have a few high level alts, all soloed.

Guess what? I am in a level 80 guild with the best guild hall money can buy. Prefering solo play doesnt mean you have to be anti-social to the extreme. If you dont want to socialise with anyone in thi game, maybe MMO's really are not the game for you.

Dasein · 12-09-2008, 12:31 PM

Myrddin@Venekor wrote:

I am a solo player and have solo-ed 98% of my time in this game. I am level 80 and have a few high level alts, all soloed.
Guess what? I am in a level 80 guild with the best guild hall money can buy. Prefering solo play doesnt mean you have to be anti-social to the extreme. If you dont want to socialise with anyone in thi game, maybe MMO's really are not the game for you.

And the only way to socialise is by joining a guild?

liveja · 12-09-2008, 12:32 PM

Kigneer wrote:

Birn wrote:
This must be a joke by the OP
And by reading some more posts many seems to believe things in the guild halls are Free, if they knew the upkeep and how much you need to pay to get a mender etc it wont take long before all egoist soloers dissapear
Which is why I don't put in feyiron and succulent roots anymore, because even raiders and groupers even expect you to do the harvesting for them.
Guildies I know, I'll harvest for them individually as they help not only me some others, but for general use...nada...they have to harvest for themselves, or buy from folks like me who do.

I can't even count the number of hours I've put in since my little guild got our guild hall -- we only have a T1 hall, because we're only 49th level, & we've only got 12 people -- harvesting & putting all the common harvests into the depository. I don't do this because my guildies EXPECT it of me; I do it because they're my guildies.

Saying you'll only do things like that for guildies you "know" is, IMO, a pretty poor attitude for a guildie to have. Honestly, this post tells me you treat your guildies like assets from which you obtain favors & things, whereas I treat MY guildies like the friends-&-family they are.

Unfeter · 12-09-2008, 12:44 PM

Kigneer wrote:

Birn wrote:
Which is why I don't put in feyiron and succulent roots anymore, because even raiders and groupers even expect you to do the harvesting for them.

I just expect our guild hall harvester bot to do the harvesting for me SMILEY

Kigneer · 12-09-2008, 12:51 PM

Dasein wrote:

And the only way to socialise is by joining a guild?

Pretty close. Unless socializing for folks is spamming the level channel for a group. Otherwise, it's a chance encounter if you see anyone in the game, as they're in the guildhalls tradeskilling or grouping somewhere in the vastness with guild members.

Guildhalls are nice, but they've become the cities themselves. The only people you'll see in the cities now are guildless, or low level guild mates that don't have a GH yet.

Slowburn · 12-09-2008, 01:28 PM

Okay, I've read all of the conversation so far, and I wanted to give my perspective.

Left EQ2 right after RoK came out last year. Tried WoW and LoTRO. Eventually settled on GuildWars.

GuildWars is the EPITOME of solo-oriented. Why group when you can take your heroes/henchmen with you. No real reason to join a guild except guild vs. guild PvP. Zero endgame. You can pick up that game and instantly be max level with a PvP character.

That game is DEAD. Lots of players, but NO INTERACTION except "wts ____ pst" or people running missions or farming.

Here's the key-

Much of the reason why EQ2 is such a great game is because it encourages grouping/guilds/etc. Making all of the rewards available to people who don't want to interact at all will turn this game into another GuildWars.

Please go play it for a few months and see what I mean.

valimar · 12-10-2008, 03:56 AM

One more try, because people keep on changing my words

Noone says that guilds should not have rewards.

But for guildless players there have been no improvements at al. Guildless players cannot buy a Rhine or Warg.

If I remember well firs you see that you need a certain faction and when you have gained that it says you need to be in a guild.

As for the houses I meant that as guilds have there guildhalls now there should be an improvement for guildless too, like making all houses available to everyone, after you have gained a certain faction

Some of you say that guildless players are claiming and being anti solo and complaining all the time.

When I read all the posts it only tells me once more why I do not join a guild.

12-07-2008, 03:42 PM	#32
Rijacki Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,842	Spyderbite@Venekor wrote: valimar wrote: I said is that I dont understand that there are no nice mounts for solo players and no nice houses. I did not say that solo players should not do an effort to earn one. The same mounts and houses are available to all players, guild or not. They are just more expensive and do not require a guild rank or status. The only exception are guild halls. So I don't get your point. Not every mount or house is available without being in a guild of a certain level. In Freeport and Qeynos, the 5-room houses are guild only (personally, I think they could 'light up' another doorway with an expensive non-status version). All of the status housing options in Kelethin, Neriak, and Garowyn have a non-status version. Mounts, though, for all the runspeed levels, there are non-status mounts, but not all mount types with their bonuses have non-status variations (personally I see nothing wrong with that at all). There are non-status Rhinos, non-status 45% carpets for completing a quest, non-status horse up to 40% runspeed, non-status 45% wargs for completing a quest, and even an up to 52% dire bear for just buying the retail box of TSO. There are also dire bears for shards (which were missed in the files going live with TSO) which won't require any status or guild membership and will be 65% with nice buffs. I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort. Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds. __________________

12-07-2008, 04:03 PM	#33
Spyderbite Server: Venekor Guild: Dark Vengeance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,262	Rijacki wrote: Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds. Best analogy.. EVAH!

12-07-2008, 04:33 PM	#34
Lolianna Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 212	When guild halls were released my husband and I talked about how neat it would be to have one of our own. Mostly to decorate, LOL. We love to decorate. So, on Oct 11th, shortly after their release, we formed a little guild of our own for our alts. I worked on tradeskill writs and made sure to grab adventure writs each time I went out to quest in ToS. I nearly always wind up having a quest that requires killing mobs that are on my adventure writs. I also purchased a few status items off the broker here and there to help the guild along. Six weeks later we dinged level 30 and moved into our first guild hall. It's awesome; our alts are fully set up to craft in one area now. We are enjoying it tremendously and looking forward to a t2 guild hall already. Yes, we know it will be more work, but, the amenities are so fun and the pride we have in our hall was worth the effort. If you really, really want to share in the 'guild benefits' you can... just get motivated and do it .

12-07-2008, 04:36 PM	#35
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Rijacki wrote: I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort. Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds. Unless you play 6 accounts, being in a guild is not solely the choice of the individual, but requires others to allow that person to join or at least to assist in forming the guild. That individual 'choices' rely on the consent of others is something that seems cosnistently overlooked. I cannot simply choose to be in a guild, a gorup, a raid or any other voluntary player association - I can choose to try and gain membership in one of these associations, but the choice of actually being allowed in is not mine. As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have? __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

12-07-2008, 04:51 PM	#36
Spyderbite Server: Venekor Guild: Dark Vengeance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,262	Dasein wrote: As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have? I'm going through exactly that right now with the Jack Russell Terrier Owner Society.. 3 visits/interviews just so my puppy who hasn't even opened his eyes yet, is registered. Do I hold the strict requirements against the association? Nope. They prevent bad/neglective dog owners from own the pets they don't deserve.

12-07-2008, 03:40 PM	#31
Lethe5683 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,351	There's still very nice houses that cost only money. The guild hosing is just cheaper since it requires a guild of a certain level and status.

12-07-2008, 05:38 PM	#37
Darwanda Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14	There's a difference between being solo and unguilded. However, I agree there are significant benefits for guilded players (especially the porting capabilities), but I don't think it precludes you from accomplishing anything. At any rate, for anyone on Antonia Bayle who wants their own guild...I have a lvl 10 guild free for the taking. Just send a mail to Darticia and I'll hand over leadership and disguild myself.

12-07-2008, 06:33 PM	#38
montor Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 53	Mourden@Crushbone wrote: Darkwind@The Bazaar wrote: Op you are beating a dead horse here no one cares if us solo'ers have nice stuff but us. Although we can get some pretty nice houses if you are willing to pay the upkeep. Joining a guild does not mean you have to group or even raid and then you can get crafting tables for your house. I've been called anti social many times because I dont group often but my job can call me away at any time so I dont want to leave a group early. But to say no one cares about soloers having nice gear, I don't get that at all. There's solo questlines that reward Legendary and even Fabled items. If solo questlines rewarded the same level of gear as grouping or raiding, why would anyone else bother to play if they enjoy that facet of the game more? This game caters to everyone, and i'd say it does a pretty decent job. I'm pretty happy with what I can obtain in the game I dont need raid gear and dont really care if I have the fastest mount. I guess what really gets me is the attitude of some people about solo players it's like they think we are bad for the game. I'm lucky though I am in a great guild and they understand why I cant always group.

12-07-2008, 06:43 PM	#39
Spyderbite Server: Venekor Guild: Dark Vengeance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,262	Darkwind@The Bazaar wrote: I'm lucky though I am in a great guild and they understand why I cant always group. That's not Luck.. that's just a great attitude.

12-07-2008, 06:56 PM	#40
Kaberu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 405	Dasein wrote: Rijacki wrote: I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort. Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds. Unless you play 6 accounts, being in a guild is not solely the choice of the individual, but requires others to allow that person to join or at least to assist in forming the guild. That individual 'choices' rely on the consent of others is something that seems cosnistently overlooked. I cannot simply choose to be in a guild, a gorup, a raid or any other voluntary player association - I can choose to try and gain membership in one of these associations, but the choice of actually being allowed in is not mine. As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have? But to afford the lamborghini you need a sizable income. Aside from inheriting that, you need to either run your own business which involves getting a bunch of people together to work for or with you, or you need to become the leader in a business. How is that any different than needed to be in a guild to earn the resources to afford something in game?

12-07-2008, 07:11 PM	#41
Kendricke Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,032	Dasein wrote: Rijacki wrote: I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort. Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds. Unless you play 6 accounts, being in a guild is not solely the choice of the individual, but requires others to allow that person to join or at least to assist in forming the guild. That individual 'choices' rely on the consent of others is something that seems cosnistently overlooked. I cannot simply choose to be in a guild, a gorup, a raid or any other voluntary player association - I can choose to try and gain membership in one of these associations, but the choice of actually being allowed in is not mine. As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have? If money truly is no object, you can form a single person guild very, very easily. You tell Channel 1-9 (1): Paying 1pp each to the next five people who join a group with me in Qeynos Harbor so I can form a guild. __________________ * -Opinions expressed in this post do not represent any current or past employers.

12-07-2008, 07:22 PM	#42
Rijacki Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,842	Kendricke wrote: Dasein wrote: Rijacki wrote: I also agree with the statement that just because a group putting in more effort gets EXTRA items doesn't mean that others (who don't meet the qualifications) are being penalised. Especially since anyone can -choose- to be in a guild and put in the effort. Heck, I can't afford a Lambrogheni which has a rather speedy RL 'runspeed' but I don't complain that it needs to be made available to someone who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at the local McDonalds. Unless you play 6 accounts, being in a guild is not solely the choice of the individual, but requires others to allow that person to join or at least to assist in forming the guild. That individual 'choices' rely on the consent of others is something that seems cosnistently overlooked. I cannot simply choose to be in a guild, a gorup, a raid or any other voluntary player association - I can choose to try and gain membership in one of these associations, but the choice of actually being allowed in is not mine. As for the Lambrogheni, would you think it fair if not only did you have to have the money, but you also had to be a member of a Lambrogheni Buyers Club, and if you weren't a member of this club, you couldn't get one no matter how much mony you have? If money truly is no object, you can form a single person guild very, very easily. You tell Channel 1-9 (1): Paying 1pp each to the next five people who join a group with me in Qeynos Harbor so I can form a guild. And then you buy oooooodles of the status drop items to level quickly. As for being "fair" if you have to be a member of a club.. There are many many many organisations which have an excluse model or version of something. While the general public can buy widget A, the more impressive widget B is only available to the Widget Owners of America or even just to a subset of that group. Heck, we just got home from grocery shopping and there's a great example there. We get a vast number of discounts and right now even a gas card for a certain dollar amount of purchases, but only if we join their club. And for the comment about needing to be allowed to join a guild... ONE - there are A LOT of guilds on every server, even a lot of guilds that are at the level cap. You aren't required to be in only one exclusive guild on the server. TWO - you only need 5 other people for about 15 minutes tops to form your own guild. There are MANY who have done it and have even leveled that guild up in order to obtain certain rewards. In both cases, nothing is stopping anyone from choosing to be in a guild. __________________

12-07-2008, 07:45 PM	#43
Thunderthyze Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 2,050	Dasein wrote: wullailhuit wrote: Dasein wrote: steelbadger wrote: People need to get their head around the idea that a bonus given to one person or group is not the same as "punishing" the people who aren't in that group. Except it has the same effect. Umm....No it doesn't What is important is the relative differences between two (or more) things - increasing one or decreasing the other has the same impact on the relative difference. Giving guilds more benefits weakens the position of soloers compared to guilded players, and the perception is that SOE sees them as inferior players, not deserving of all the neat things guilded players get. This is the part you obviously can't get your head around Dasein. Guild halls do not weaken soloers. A soloers ability remains exactly the same. What it does do is give guilds more options and benefits. If you, as a soloer, decide you want those benefits too then apply to join a guild with a guild hall. There is nothing stopping you. You can even still solo exclusively if that is what you want. Of course I wouldn't expect you to take advantage of that option to your own ends and not offer any plat of SP to the guild escrow fund. __________________

12-08-2008, 02:12 AM	#44
Zarador Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,194	As more than a few pointed out it's really quite simple. Offer to pay strangers to help start up the Guild. Purchase the status items off the broker (Joining an exchange server and inheriting enough real life money to buy enough platinum to facilitate this will help in the process greatly). Level the Guild to level 30 and another 100 or so platinum and a few million more status and you have a usable solo T-1 Guild House! Time consuming and cost effective? Probebly not.

12-08-2008, 04:57 PM	#45
Bohica Server: Kithicor Guild: Knights Who Say Kni Rank: Knight of Kni Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 22	Think of the guild hall a a place of business. If you are not running/member of a business(guild), why would you need a guildhall? A guildhall is not just a a large house, it is a place where guilds do various guild type things. You'd think mine was a factory, what with all of the tradeskilling going on. A soloer should think of themselves as a contractor that works out of their home. No need for a storefront when you aren't there most of the time.

12-08-2008, 07:02 PM	#46
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	Aren't there still houses in all cities which require membership in a guild of a certain level to buy them? Like the big 5-room mansions & such? I ask, because the OP wasn't talking about guild halls, so far as I can tell. It's a pretty minor point, because the ability to buy a much bigger house has little-to-no effect on one's ability to solo, but it DOES have an effect on one's ability to thoroughly enjoy the game. I don't see a problem -- at all -- with removing the guild membership requirement from player housing, & perhaps instead replacing it with a status &/or faction requirement. If I said something opposite to this earlier in this thread or elsewhere on this forum, I've changed my mind -- but only on this relatively minor issue. Frankly, I can't any longer see the point in maintaining guild membership requirements for mounts, either. __________________

12-08-2008, 07:10 PM	#47
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote: Dasein wrote: wullailhuit wrote: Dasein wrote: steelbadger wrote: People need to get their head around the idea that a bonus given to one person or group is not the same as "punishing" the people who aren't in that group. Except it has the same effect. Umm....No it doesn't What is important is the relative differences between two (or more) things - increasing one or decreasing the other has the same impact on the relative difference. Giving guilds more benefits weakens the position of soloers compared to guilded players, and the perception is that SOE sees them as inferior players, not deserving of all the neat things guilded players get. This is the part you obviously can't get your head around Dasein. Guild halls do not weaken soloers. A soloers ability remains exactly the same. What it does do is give guilds more options and benefits. If you, as a soloer, decide you want those benefits too then apply to join a guild with a guild hall. There is nothing stopping you. You can even still solo exclusively if that is what you want. Of course I wouldn't expect you to take advantage of that option to your own ends and not offer any plat of SP to the guild escrow fund. Guild halls right now do not 'weaken' soloers, in that guild halls do not offer anything that is not available in the game already, but I can assure you that the guild hall travel amenities make some things far easier and rally flags provide tremendous benefits that are only just being realized. I think as more players gain access to near instant travel anywhere in the game, quest and zone design will be changed to compensate, and this will leave players without such benefits behind. Already, I don't think I've seen anyone open a portal in QH since guild halls went in, because the druid ring is one of the first things people get. Before, having portals available, or people willing to open them (sometimes for a price) was one of those conveniences anyone in QH and other high-traffic zones could expect, solo or guilded alike. Travel times are also an issue when forming groups - my guildmates and I can get most anywhere in a matter of moments using flags, bells and portals from the guild hall. Someone without these benefits will likley have a harder time finding groups because people do not like to wait around for people to catch boats or wait for an airship. This is doubly true if you plan on doing multiple zones and need to hop all over the world. For a guild, this is not much of an issue, while someone relying on just the public transport available will have a trickier, and longer, time of it. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

12-08-2008, 10:21 PM	#48
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	Dasein wrote: Guild halls right now do not 'weaken' soloers, in that guild halls do not offer anything that is not available in the game already, but I can assure you that the guild hall travel amenities make some things far easier and rally flags provide tremendous benefits that are only just being realized. I think as more players gain access to near instant travel anywhere in the game, quest and zone design will be changed to compensate, and this will leave players without such benefits behind. People who choose not to join guilds, choose to leave themselves behind. This is PRECISELY the same as people who choose not to group, choosing to leave themselves out of instances. There is no difference. But the OP's point had nothing to do with guild halls, & virtually nothing you can put in any of the houses the OP was talking about would change that "left behind" issue, so talking about guildless people being "left behind" because of all the amenities of guild halls that they don't have is almost wholly meaningless. There is even LESS reason to eschew guilds than there is to eschew grouping for instances. The benefits to being a guild member are huge, & I can guarantee that on EVERY SINGLE SERVER, one can find a "friends & family" style guild that will place absolutely NO restrictions on your behavior, require you to be anywhere, demand you spend even a single penny of your hard-earned coppers to support the guild, do even a single writ, etc. With that in mind, I'm pretty much suspicious -- yes, I'm saying it -- about people who continue to insist, or even imply, that they have an issue with joining guilds. I have to wonder how many of them have very bad reputations on their servers & THAT is why they can't find a group or a guild. __________________

12-08-2008, 10:43 PM	#49
Kigneer Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,462	Dasein wrote: Guild halls right now do not 'weaken' soloers, in that guild halls do not offer anything that is not available in the game already, but I can assure you that the guild hall travel amenities make some things far easier and rally flags provide tremendous benefits that are only just being realized. :Cough: Harvest box (you know that bottomless box of mats, often filled by others and/or the broker)? :cough: No longer does a guildie have to harvest 2000 roots to level, there's 12000 in the box for that tier to use, instead. Then the 15 minute guild hall call. The druid ring; portal and bells to go from Antonica to Zek. Then everything but the collections agent right in your hall (and in our guild, everything is in the TS area -- banker; broker; seller; writs; harvesters; fuel merchant; rush and work order agents). Rush orders is but a step away, and for some officers, not even a step away -- they just move the agent next to them! lol Let's not forget the 1hr fighting, speed buffs and mender (even a barber), either. The training dummies. The safefall "tower". Guild halls are wonderful, and I'm so glad Gus put the 1000 plat down for it. But I can also understand how it feels to not have a T3 guild hall with all it's amenties. Worse, how abandoned the cities have become due to them, too (would've been better that they were in the center of the town, to draw "business" to home cities -- not take away from them, like a suburban sprawl). As bad as it is, you can always join a higher level guild, then buy your house and leave the guild. It's not right, but nothing preventing it. __________________ The "have nots" will always point what the "haves" have. Harmony is reached when both sides have their *needs* met.

12-09-2008, 08:18 AM	#50
Thunderthyze Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 2,050	Kigneer wrote: Dasein wrote: Guild halls right now do not 'weaken' soloers, in that guild halls do not offer anything that is not available in the game already, but I can assure you that the guild hall travel amenities make some things far easier and rally flags provide tremendous benefits that are only just being realized. :Cough: Harvest box (you know that bottomless box of mats, often filled by others and/or the broker)? :cough: No longer does a guildie have to harvest 2000 roots to level, there's 12000 in the box for that tier to use, instead. Just as a for instance the harvest box does NOT magically fill by itself. You have to keep prompting the harvest bots every couple of hours which only "find" around about 60~70 roots in that cycle. You are far better off harvesting yourself for the rate of return. The benefit arises from the prompting being done by any guild member around which means the harvesting can go on more or less 24/7. In other words, if you're a soloer and have this amenity to yourself you are highly unlikely to see ANY benefit whatsoever, quite apart from the incredible cost these things drain from your personal resources. __________________

12-09-2008, 08:54 AM	#51
Birn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 234	This must be a joke by the OP And by reading some more posts many seems to believe things in the guild halls are Free, if they knew the upkeep and how much you need to pay to get a mender etc it wont take long before all egoist soloers dissapear __________________ ---- "We have no plans what so ever to do actual sales of in game items, and I'm personally very opposed to the idea for EverQuest" "We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period."

12-09-2008, 09:36 AM	#52
Kigneer Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,462	Birn wrote: This must be a joke by the OP And by reading some more posts many seems to believe things in the guild halls are Free, if they knew the upkeep and how much you need to pay to get a mender etc it wont take long before all egoist soloers dissapear Which is why I don't put in feyiron and succulent roots anymore, because even raiders and groupers even expect you to do the harvesting for them. Guildies I know, I'll harvest for them individually as they help not only me some others, but for general use...nada...they have to harvest for themselves, or buy from folks like me who do. __________________ The "have nots" will always point what the "haves" have. Harmony is reached when both sides have their *needs* met.

12-09-2008, 11:53 AM	#53
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Would people be opposed to putting a public druid ring in each city, which could port people for a price? __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

12-09-2008, 12:09 PM	#54
Unfeter General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 122	I am a solo player and have solo-ed 98% of my time in this game. I am level 80 and have a few high level alts, all soloed. Guess what? I am in a level 80 guild with the best guild hall money can buy. Prefering solo play doesnt mean you have to be anti-social to the extreme. If you dont want to socialise with anyone in thi game, maybe MMO's really are not the game for you. __________________

12-09-2008, 12:31 PM	#55
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Myrddin@Venekor wrote: I am a solo player and have solo-ed 98% of my time in this game. I am level 80 and have a few high level alts, all soloed. Guess what? I am in a level 80 guild with the best guild hall money can buy. Prefering solo play doesnt mean you have to be anti-social to the extreme. If you dont want to socialise with anyone in thi game, maybe MMO's really are not the game for you. And the only way to socialise is by joining a guild? __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

12-09-2008, 12:32 PM	#56
liveja General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends Posts: 4,793	Kigneer wrote: Birn wrote: This must be a joke by the OP And by reading some more posts many seems to believe things in the guild halls are Free, if they knew the upkeep and how much you need to pay to get a mender etc it wont take long before all egoist soloers dissapear Which is why I don't put in feyiron and succulent roots anymore, because even raiders and groupers even expect you to do the harvesting for them. Guildies I know, I'll harvest for them individually as they help not only me some others, but for general use...nada...they have to harvest for themselves, or buy from folks like me who do. I can't even count the number of hours I've put in since my little guild got our guild hall -- we only have a T1 hall, because we're only 49th level, & we've only got 12 people -- harvesting & putting all the common harvests into the depository. I don't do this because my guildies EXPECT it of me; I do it because they're my guildies. Saying you'll only do things like that for guildies you "know" is, IMO, a pretty poor attitude for a guildie to have. Honestly, this post tells me you treat your guildies like assets from which you obtain favors & things, whereas I treat MY guildies like the friends-&-family they are. __________________

12-09-2008, 12:44 PM	#57
Unfeter General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 122	Kigneer wrote: Birn wrote: Which is why I don't put in feyiron and succulent roots anymore, because even raiders and groupers even expect you to do the harvesting for them. I just expect our guild hall harvester bot to do the harvesting for me __________________

12-09-2008, 12:51 PM	#58
Kigneer Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,462	Dasein wrote: And the only way to socialise is by joining a guild? Pretty close. Unless socializing for folks is spamming the level channel for a group. Otherwise, it's a chance encounter if you see anyone in the game, as they're in the guildhalls tradeskilling or grouping somewhere in the vastness with guild members. Guildhalls are nice, but they've become the cities themselves. The only people you'll see in the cities now are guildless, or low level guild mates that don't have a GH yet. __________________ The "have nots" will always point what the "haves" have. Harmony is reached when both sides have their *needs* met.

12-09-2008, 01:28 PM	#59
Slowburn Historian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 21	Okay, I've read all of the conversation so far, and I wanted to give my perspective. Left EQ2 right after RoK came out last year. Tried WoW and LoTRO. Eventually settled on GuildWars. GuildWars is the EPITOME of solo-oriented. Why group when you can take your heroes/henchmen with you. No real reason to join a guild except guild vs. guild PvP. Zero endgame. You can pick up that game and instantly be max level with a PvP character. That game is DEAD. Lots of players, but NO INTERACTION except "wts ____ pst" or people running missions or farming. Here's the key- Much of the reason why EQ2 is such a great game is because it encourages grouping/guilds/etc. Making all of the rewards available to people who don't want to interact at all will turn this game into another GuildWars. Please go play it for a few months and see what I mean. __________________ Aetherbane - Necromancer - The Bazaar Everburning - Zerker - The Bazaar

12-10-2008, 03:56 AM	#60
valimar Lord Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 19	One more try, because people keep on changing my words Noone says that guilds should not have rewards. But for guildless players there have been no improvements at al. Guildless players cannot buy a Rhine or Warg. If I remember well firs you see that you need a certain faction and when you have gained that it says you need to be in a guild. As for the houses I meant that as guilds have there guildhalls now there should be an improvement for guildless too, like making all houses available to everyone, after you have gained a certain faction Some of you say that guildless players are claiming and being anti solo and complaining all the time. When I read all the posts it only tells me once more why I do not join a guild.