Defiler Class Issues (Consolidated Thread) - Page 2

Tehom · 09-18-2009, 03:48 PM

Overall, we get some of the strongest survivability tools of any priest, which makes it a little hard to argue for more stuff. We're pretty much dead last in categories of enhancing dps or doing dps ourselves, although our AE damage isn't terrible in some very rare situations with huge swarm adds and our offensive stance. I think we could get a little more without being totally imbalanced, since I tend to think templar/inquisitor/mystic dps-enhancing tools are a lot higher than ours without being much behind us in group survivability. I do have a gripe in that our dps stance is tied to our dog (gives him a proc), where I'd much prefer it did something like give -us- a proc on hostile casts and melee attacks, similar to Wardens' offensive stance.

Sedenten · 09-21-2009, 11:50 AM

Houngan@Nagafen wrote:

Now as far as the buff SoA goes and how I see it, maybe I fully don't understand it usefullness due to the content I am currently experiencing, but to that end I am already planning a respec for my mirror that has the exact same setup except for with and without Enhanced SOA. Once I am ready and capture multiple times through the same zone, with and without it I will honestly give you my opinion on this again. I am not saying I am not wrong, but I am not going to take a reply that amounts to nothing more than a troll post and not respond to it.

Unless you're doing a zone where your group is getting hammered with spell effects, or some of the DPS is donning chokers you're going to be back to post triumphantly that your testing concluded that Shroud of Armor is indeed useless. In the lower levels, you more than likely aren't going to notice Shroud of Armor doing a lot over time. The spell shines in raid situations where spells are pelting your group or in DPS groups where you have several DPS classes using chokers. In the higher level and more difficult instances, you will notice it picking up quite a bit of damage as well. It only ever blocks spell based attacks, and around x4 or x5 what the mystic version blocks of physical. It refreshes in full every tick (6 seconds). At level 80, that's a nearly 900 point ward that is always up and ready to shave some damage off AE effects which costs us no power to maintain.

I'm not going to disagree with you that casting speed would be grand, but when it comes to specialty heals we have the same casting/reuse speed as mystics, templars and inquisitors. All three of those classes have the same exact casting and recast on their class wards and reactives. We share the same casting and reuse as templars for our straight heals, due to the fact that both us and templars have the most potent single shot heals of the priests. While they could add AA's to improve all our wards, it wouldn't make sense from a balancing standpoint for all priests in a PVE situation (I'm well aware that the casting speeds plague PVP defilers).

If you're asking where I'd rather see casting speed AA's added for our wards, I do agree that the Soulward line is where they would best fit. I'd rather them drop the recast on our fear (I'm assuming that's useful in PVP to some extent?) and squeeze the AA in that spot instead. If an AA were added for casting speed, we would probably get at most .5 reduction to our group ward or a similar reduction in recast amount.

Crazywack · 09-21-2009, 02:41 PM

I say drop the debuff casting speed benefits from the heal stance (we already get this from RoK/Cursing line) and add a ward cast/re-use benefit.

Houngan · 09-23-2009, 05:02 PM

I do not intend to take the Enhanced SOA lightly, nor will I come back here after just one test at my tier and pronouce it great or garbage. The fact is that with the amount of people who have spoken up about it, I will honestly be looking at it for my final spec. I just want to start capturing data with it as soon as possible.

I use the AOE fear fairly regularly in PVP and it is definately useful, but I would drop that for a casting time reduction. I am not asking for a personal permanent RoA but we should at least get something to speed up our wards. Yes this is more of an issue for PVP than PVE but it is still an issue for the class as a whole. As far as total time if they shaved 1s off of our group ward it is better than nothing.

Yes PVP hurts, but I do both and see failings that affect both sides. On the raid end of things we do shine, but shouldn't we have all around use in the whole game? I am not asking to be better than every other priest, but I see, especially what AA does for healers as a whole and we seem to be on the short end of that stick.

Iacon · 05-07-2010, 12:18 AM

I have a small Suggestion regarding Leg Bite, the first bubble on the Shaman Tree Strength line. We defilers have a lot of abilities to cast without micro-managing the dog's combat arts. Could we possibly get Leg Bite changed to an innate ability for the dog to use at its lesuire (like the one in Ancestral Pedegree in the Shadow Tree)? Also, instead of a dot + interupt just make it flat damage + interupt. Thanks.

Karihi · 04-15-2011, 09:41 PM

Or you could macro your leg bite to one of your other spells.I have both /pet attack and /useability leg bite attached to some of the other spells to ensure that 1- my dog is on my target, and 2- that leg bite is up and I don't have to actually watch for it to recycle.

09-21-2009, 11:50 AM	#32
Sedenten Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 680	Houngan@Nagafen wrote: Now as far as the buff SoA goes and how I see it, maybe I fully don't understand it usefullness due to the content I am currently experiencing, but to that end I am already planning a respec for my mirror that has the exact same setup except for with and without Enhanced SOA. Once I am ready and capture multiple times through the same zone, with and without it I will honestly give you my opinion on this again. I am not saying I am not wrong, but I am not going to take a reply that amounts to nothing more than a troll post and not respond to it. Unless you're doing a zone where your group is getting hammered with spell effects, or some of the DPS is donning chokers you're going to be back to post triumphantly that your testing concluded that Shroud of Armor is indeed useless. In the lower levels, you more than likely aren't going to notice Shroud of Armor doing a lot over time. The spell shines in raid situations where spells are pelting your group or in DPS groups where you have several DPS classes using chokers. In the higher level and more difficult instances, you will notice it picking up quite a bit of damage as well. It only ever blocks spell based attacks, and around x4 or x5 what the mystic version blocks of physical. It refreshes in full every tick (6 seconds). At level 80, that's a nearly 900 point ward that is always up and ready to shave some damage off AE effects which costs us no power to maintain. I'm not going to disagree with you that casting speed would be grand, but when it comes to specialty heals we have the same casting/reuse speed as mystics, templars and inquisitors. All three of those classes have the same exact casting and recast on their class wards and reactives. We share the same casting and reuse as templars for our straight heals, due to the fact that both us and templars have the most potent single shot heals of the priests. While they could add AA's to improve all our wards, it wouldn't make sense from a balancing standpoint for all priests in a PVE situation (I'm well aware that the casting speeds plague PVP defilers). If you're asking where I'd rather see casting speed AA's added for our wards, I do agree that the Soulward line is where they would best fit. I'd rather them drop the recast on our fear (I'm assuming that's useful in PVP to some extent?) and squeeze the AA in that spot instead. If an AA were added for casting speed, we would probably get at most .5 reduction to our group ward or a similar reduction in recast amount.

09-21-2009, 02:41 PM	#33
Crazywack Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 29	I say drop the debuff casting speed benefits from the heal stance (we already get this from RoK/Cursing line) and add a ward cast/re-use benefit. __________________ Uddjubb 80 Defiler of Paradigm Unrest

09-23-2009, 05:02 PM	#34
Houngan Server: Nagafen Guild: R A o V Rank: RAoV Leader Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9	I do not intend to take the Enhanced SOA lightly, nor will I come back here after just one test at my tier and pronouce it great or garbage. The fact is that with the amount of people who have spoken up about it, I will honestly be looking at it for my final spec. I just want to start capturing data with it as soon as possible. I use the AOE fear fairly regularly in PVP and it is definately useful, but I would drop that for a casting time reduction. I am not asking for a personal permanent RoA but we should at least get something to speed up our wards. Yes this is more of an issue for PVP than PVE but it is still an issue for the class as a whole. As far as total time if they shaved 1s off of our group ward it is better than nothing. Yes PVP hurts, but I do both and see failings that affect both sides. On the raid end of things we do shine, but shouldn't we have all around use in the whole game? I am not asking to be better than every other priest, but I see, especially what AA does for healers as a whole and we seem to be on the short end of that stick. __________________

09-18-2009, 03:48 PM	#31
Tehom Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,171	Overall, we get some of the strongest survivability tools of any priest, which makes it a little hard to argue for more stuff. We're pretty much dead last in categories of enhancing dps or doing dps ourselves, although our AE damage isn't terrible in some very rare situations with huge swarm adds and our offensive stance. I think we could get a little more without being totally imbalanced, since I tend to think templar/inquisitor/mystic dps-enhancing tools are a lot higher than ours without being much behind us in group survivability. I do have a gripe in that our dps stance is tied to our dog (gives him a proc), where I'd much prefer it did something like give -us- a proc on hostile casts and melee attacks, similar to Wardens' offensive stance.

05-07-2010, 12:18 AM	#35
Iacon Server: Lucan DLere Guild: Vigilance Rank: Short Stabbers Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 43	I have a small Suggestion regarding Leg Bite, the first bubble on the Shaman Tree Strength line. We defilers have a lot of abilities to cast without micro-managing the dog's combat arts. Could we possibly get Leg Bite changed to an innate ability for the dog to use at its lesuire (like the one in Ancestral Pedegree in the Shadow Tree)? Also, instead of a dot + interupt just make it flat damage + interupt. Thanks.

04-15-2011, 09:41 PM	#36
Karihi Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 134	Or you could macro your leg bite to one of your other spells.I have both /pet attack and /useability leg bite attached to some of the other spells to ensure that 1- my dog is on my target, and 2- that leg bite is up and I don't have to actually watch for it to recycle.