Make SS an unlimited pvp zone.

[Borias]

I agree SS should be unilimited range zone.  Leave the rest of the t6 zones with ranges, but keep SS open.  There are very very few legitimate questers in that zone now anyways.  Everyone goes and does LFay because of the rewards.  Easy access zone with open PvP?  I'm not seeing the drawbacks at this state of the game.  And yes, I leveled up through T6 during the open days.

And I'm sorry Ulvhamne, but you've been 59 since May 14th.  I think you've had enough time to level up to T7.  It's pretty clear why you don't want SS opened up.

[Scatimus]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

Oh yes, I were there. I couldnt get a decent pvp fight woithout a [I cannot control my vocabulary] raid popping in. Actually, the very toon in my sig were the first one to get into that hassle. And if you could outrun the roaming raids, well, you were in luch. What I usually had was a raid dropping from a carpet, snaring or rooting me and then everyone hit their fastest attack to land an attack to get faction before I died. I was usually a 2-3 second ordeal. And oh yeah, the revive ponts and carpets were most of the time camped. It wasnt a sense of danger, it was a sense of utter futility. And hell yeah, make reds more dangerous to grays. Make it near impossible to land stuff on someone 20 lvls above you, then you can take a whack at them while they proceed to oneshot your group one by one. Im perfectly fine with that option. Another option would be to change how pvp works altogether, making levels mean close to nothing apart from the skills you get. Damage is scaled to a specific set (ie mentored to a certain level of effectiveness) so a lvl 70s advantage is just that they ahve more skills, not that their skills do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] more damage. A lvl 10 will still be severely gimped compared to a lvl 70. And due to everyone having a fair chance (well, not really, if its a lvl 10 vs a lvl 70) just remove level ranges and let the mayhem begin. Perhaps make it so that you wont lose/gain anything of the level spread is greater than 10-15% (decided from the lower level guy). Still, everyone is attackable. More pvp, more fun.

No, I couldn't outrun raids... but I ran from quite a few groups and solo hunters. One will always feel utter futility against raids - at level 70 I still get rolled big time with minimal chances of escape if I come across one of those... Anyway, your idea sounds very interesting.... allthough I'm sure there are issues with it though, as there are issues with everything. Ok, so everyone would be white con to eachother all the way from 10-70 right? But you can see the number behind their name, as today. The first thought I had was that while a level 10 will be able to land spells on me as if we were the same level, I'll be wearing pieces of the level 70 PvP and EoF fabled gear, and have all those skills in adept 3/master 1 version + 100 AA points ... while he has no choice but to wear noob gear and have 2 nukes.... gimped doesn't even begin to describe that, lol. I would probably destroy him without even trying. As for gear and spells scaling... what would they scale to? Not your opponent, that wouldn't work as this game is very faction and group based. But maybe scale with the zone you are in, perhaps? I'm sure none of us sees all the possible issues with this, but before I can think of more problems, or someone else points them out - I think it sounds like a possibly good idea.

Just use the %. You get the straight % of what the gear gives you. Not the hard stats, or the hard resists, or the hard damage or the hard health. And no, its not impossible to setup a decent scaling system. And how would it be more gimped than a 45 vs a 70, pray tell? And, guess what, I've tried MMOs that utilized such systems. I liked them better than the silly lvl range system of eq2.

Why not just let it scale to the zone? So that if you're level 70 and zone into Antonica, then you're still 70 PvE wise, but to your opponents you are only level 20. In TS, you're 30, in EL you're 40 and so on.... Or did you want it to scale right down to 10 regardless of what zone you're in?

No, I want the PvP and PvE systems (almost) completely separated. Normalize the damage for spells to a fixed level of pve, or whatever. Just normalize it to a fixed point. All the spells of the same line will always do the same damage in pvp. The only advantage gained from more pve levels would be more skills to toy with. Not greater damage, or ten times the health and so on. That way, no level ranges would ever be needed (removing some silly stunts people pull to circumvent them), level locking would be a thing of the past and mentoring wouldnt be a problem in pvp. Quite a few odd things would go away. (And we would prolly gain a few new ones) Some problems would be heals. How would you decide if the pvp or pve version would be applied? Because having pvp heals in pve would either be vastly overpowered, or completely gimpified. And using pve heals would be the same deal. Largest problem with the whole concept really. And Im still thinking about that one. Automatic mentoring to the level at hand would probably be neat as well, if they ever fix mentoring. Only thing I see as a potential problem with that is people exploiting holes in it. that and always bringing raids of people 4 or 8 levels above you. But meh. That would serve to make levellocking more dangerous and the lower tiers more full of action so I dont mind that too much.

That doesn't sound so bad at all, actually. As for heals, they are already toned down some for PvP, and yeah... sometimes that can probably be an issue if you're doing a mob and get jumped etc...

Yah, and if you decide to normalize heals for say, 10k of health, using those heals in t2 pve, ugh. The other way around would be normalizing heals for a 500 health pool. Imagine trying to use those heals in t7 pve. holds tru if you turn it around the other way as well. Which is kindof bothering me. (Even the current pvp implementation suffers from this to a lesser extent.)

look how many quotes i made.

[Vilesummon]

Borias@Venekor wrote:

I agree SS should be unilimited range zone.  Leave the rest of the t6 zones with ranges, but keep SS open.  There are very very few legitimate questers in that zone now anyways.  Everyone goes and does LFay because of the rewards.  Easy access zone with open PvP?  I'm not seeing the drawbacks at this state of the game.  And yes, I leveled up through T6 during the open days.

And I'm sorry Ulvhamne, but you've been 59 since May 14th.  I think you've had enough time to level up to T7.  It's pretty clear why you don't want SS opened up.

I don't know what you are possibly implying with your comments. Clearly, he is exploring the content of the game and that would be the ONLY reason he isn't t7 yet. As you said, the reason is pretty clear...and it is shame because SS is one of the few places that is open enough for people to PVP without the cloud hopping and crap of KOS. The problem is the lil gank [Removed for Content] that are leeching in the zone. You and I are both of the timeline that we grew up in the unlimited SS days...hell, I probably have 100 deaths from trying to find vanadium for my skills, but we managed. Time for the lil grays to actually have to face some of the trials and pains that we all went through. Of course, as we have both stated in other threads too, it would be even less of a problem if the resist/mitigations actually worked properly for the high end players. 2 things that don't require ANY nerfing that would make it better all around are: 1. Open range in SS again 2. Proper mechanics for resists and mitigations of the high end players. No nerf needed so I think those are 2 EASY win/win proposals.

[Cyst]

I have found a lot of 70s hide part of their group, or most of their raid inside Butcherblock, Qeynos Harbor, or Freeport waiting to bait others and gank them. Cheesy tactic.

Soon there will be level 80s with plenty of unlimited zones to fight in, but if 70s really wanted a good tactical zone to fight in, they'd go to Shimmering Citadel (an unlimited zone), not hug carpets in Sinking Sands for easy escape, or hide half thier group/raid in Butcherblock. No, you're only in Sinking Sands because of the carpets and easy to hide group exploits.

Problem is most 70s I've encountered don't want a fair, or challenging fight, they just want to gank.

Sinking Sands is one of the worst zones to PvP in because everyone jumps on a carpet and you spend most your time on carpets chasing them. Or one person lets your group engage him, jumps on carpet as his RAID comes and ganks your vulnerable group. Sinking Sands is a very frustrating place to fight in.

[Cyst]

Another lame tactic in Sinking Sands making it the worst PvP area revolves around the docks being the evac/revive point for exiles.

Your tanks go off out of evac range and a scout evacs all the casters and healers making them immune, and they stand permanently immune at the docks leaving the tanks as your only targets.

[Izzypop]

Stop for 1 minute and ask Why did SOE remove unlimited pvp ranges from T6 zones in the 1st place. Answer:  Because a few 70's were abusing it and making life hell for the level 40's and 50's that were just trying to get up there in levels.  Once CT, Sol Ro, and Permafrost slowed down as xp zones this forced everybody in T5/T6 to grind straight to T7 in instanced zones.  It completely killed T5/T6 pvp as everybody in t5/6 cowered inside instances occasionally popping their heads out of their holes into the sunlight to run in a mad dash from 1 instances into another before the groups of 70's hunted them down like dogs.  Those in T6 who dared climb out of their instanced holes to PvE or PvP were greeted by equal sized groups of 70's there to grief them. Ask Yourself: Are there more gray players leeching infamy off the ss docks than there are innocent t5/t6 players who want to play outside instances and pvp with people in their level range?  If the entire t5/t6 population in the game is greater than the number of leeches wouldn't going back to the days of unlimited pvp in t6 zones do more harm than good? Ask Yourself: What will the real cowardly T7 players that you know and hate do?  Will they stay in T7 and fight people their level, or will they take their groups and go into SS/PoF and grab easy kills? Ask Yourself:  Is good T7 pvp hard to find?  Will sending more of the T7 pvp population into T6 zones to grab easy kills make good PvP more or less likely to happen? Yes: Infamy Leeches can suck a big fat one,choke, and die.  I hate them also, but is the root cause of the problem the level range in SS or the infamy system that is more borked than Bork's beard? Math:  Math is my answer to the problem.  The entire infamy sytem needs a big overhaul IMO and part of that is the math behind how it works. 50% of the Infamy from a kill should be from the DPS inflicted upon the person killed split by how much dammage a player did 50% of the Infamy should be from damage taken from the person who just died. Example #1 a 70 Bruiser Kills a 70 monk with a level 20 Necro leeching infamy. The Bruiser inflicted 96% of the damage on the Monk receiving 48% of the Infamy, the necro gets 2% The Bruiser Received 98% of the damage the monk put out, the Necro's pet received 2% (thorns) Bruiser gets 49% Necro 1% Total Breakdown Bruiser gets 48%+49%=97% of the Infamy, necro gets 1+2=3% Example #2 a 65 Wiz and 65 Guard kill a 70 Bruiser the wiz would get tons from the dps he does the guard from receiving it.  Infamy would be split even between group members so if a full group was fighting someone and a solo jumps in the solo would be really left out.  Healers would not be left out because if they heal someone for 50k in a fight then that's 50k more damage their group received.  The system isn't perfect but it would scale the infamy gained to everybody's actual damage inflicted and received in a fight There are many answers to making PvP and the infamy system better.  Randomly borking all T6 players  is not one of them.

[Amphibia]

Izzypop wrote:

Stop for 1 minute and ask Why did SOE remove unlimited pvp ranges from T6 zones in the 1st place. Answer:  Because a few 70's were abusing it and making life hell for the level 40's and 50's that were just trying to get up there in levels.  Once CT, Sol Ro, and Permafrost slowed down as xp zones this forced everybody in T5/T6 to grind straight to T7 in instanced zones.  It completely killed T5/T6 pvp as everybody in t5/6 cowered inside instances occasionally popping their heads out of their holes into the sunlight to run in a mad dash from 1 instances into another before the groups of 70's hunted them down like dogs.  Those in T6 who dared climb out of their instanced holes to PvE or PvP were greeted by equal sized groups of 70's there to grief them. I'm sure there was a reason they changed the limits yes, but changing something for a reason doesn't always make the end result better, does it? I'm sure the devs have a much better clue than most of us of what's going on in the game they're making, but even they can't possibly imagine all the ways a ruleset can be abused by the players. The leeching has become a problem now, to be honest. And as said before, many of us were in our 40s and 50s when the "Trial of Fire" for PvP'ers was still there. It was a different game back then too.... no Lesser Faydark to go quest in, and we got TONS of xp debt. But it was challenging in an interesting way, and as someone else would say - we didn't come to a PvP server to be safe, did we? Ask Yourself: Are there more gray players leeching infamy off the ss docks than there are innocent t5/t6 players who want to play outside instances and pvp with people in their level range?  If the entire t5/t6 population in the game is greater than the number of leeches wouldn't going back to the days of unlimited pvp in t6 zones do more harm than good? Hard to tell, I run around in SS from time to time and I rarely spot greys out in the sands. No, most seem to be hanging at the docks. Does that mean they are all leeches? No, of course not. But many are. Neither of us have any hard numbers here, so discussing math without numbers is a bit meaningless, isn't it? Another thing to concider is weither ALL grey players want to be safe like that, and also take the label as "leech" if they jump into a fight now and then? Ask Yourself: What will the real cowardly T7 players that you know and hate do?  Will they stay in T7 and fight people their level, or will they take their groups and go into SS/PoF and grab easy kills? If they go to SS to farm our greys, we will go to SS to kick their butts all the way back to Freeport. And tbh, greys are not as attractive to kill as before. Yes, you can farm faction off them but I think most have this maxed anyway. And only color con'ed can give those shiny tokens... Ask Yourself:  Is good T7 pvp hard to find?  Will sending more of the T7 pvp population into T6 zones to grab easy kills make good PvP more or less likely to happen? Yes, good T7 PvP is hard to find. But you see, SS is a place that is easily accessable for everybody. Such things matters on a PvP server. Why do you think there were so many people hanging out in Frostfell? Everyone could get there from their home cities. It's the same thing with SS. And why do you think nobody cares to go PvP in LP? Because you need to either go SS-BB-LF-LP or have a druid port you SF-LP. Plus, all the aggro stunning crap in there makes it kinda suck.... Yes: Infamy Leeches can suck a big fat one,choke, and die.  I hate them also, but is the root cause of the problem the level range in SS or the infamy system that is more borked than Bork's beard? I agree that the infamy system is borked, but the leeches also look for tokens. As said before, there are entire guilds based on that now... lock at 58, twink out and go farm 70's for fame and tokens. Easier to hang out with immunity and wait for a good oppertunity than to level up and risk getting attacked, right? Oh, and SS isn't the only place they've got covered btw, they are also camping spires...  they're interested in all places where 70s may go, except KoS, SC and LP.... those are the only places you will never see them.

[Izzypop]

Amphibia wrote:

Izzypop wrote:

Yes: Infamy Leeches can suck a big fat one,choke, and die.  I hate them also, but is the root cause of the problem the level range in SS or the infamy system that is more borked than Bork's beard? I agree that the infamy system is borked, but the leeches also look for tokens. As said before, there are entire guilds based on that now... lock at 58, twink out and go farm 70's for fame and tokens. Easier to hang out with immunity and wait for a good oppertunity than to level up and risk getting attacked, right? Oh, and SS isn't the only place they've got covered btw, they are also camping spires...  they're interested in all places where 70s may go, except KoS, SC and LP.... those are the only places you will never see them.

  Once again a symptom of a deeper problem.  Entire guilds who lock at 58 to stay gray in t2/t3/t4/t6 zones.   The only "absolute" cure is unlimited pvp ranges in all zones.  The middle ground easy fix would be to remove pvp ranges from zones and go with level ranges for playerrs so your level range goes up with your level.   Grouping or raiding should expand your level range.  There is so much SOE needs to to fix the game I'm afraid reverting SS back to unlimited pvp would just be putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.

[Norrsken]

Izzypop wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Izzypop wrote:

Yes: Infamy Leeches can suck a big fat one,choke, and die.  I hate them also, but is the root cause of the problem the level range in SS or the infamy system that is more borked than Bork's beard? I agree that the infamy system is borked, but the leeches also look for tokens. As said before, there are entire guilds based on that now... lock at 58, twink out and go farm 70's for fame and tokens. Easier to hang out with immunity and wait for a good oppertunity than to level up and risk getting attacked, right? Oh, and SS isn't the only place they've got covered btw, they are also camping spires...  they're interested in all places where 70s may go, except KoS, SC and LP.... those are the only places you will never see them.

  Once again a symptom of a deeper problem.  Entire guilds who lock at 58 to stay gray in t2/t3/t4/t6 zones.   The only "absolute" cure is unlimited pvp ranges in all zones.  The middle ground easy fix would be to remove pvp ranges from zones and go with level ranges for playerrs so your level range goes up with your level.   Grouping or raiding should expand your level range.  There is so much SOE needs to to fix the game I'm afraid reverting SS back to unlimited pvp would just be putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.

And I think my sugestion is a far better and less bandaidy solution, only problem is them damned heals. Nut I might have a solution to that too. Gotta think a bit more tho.

[jam3]

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

[Norrsken]

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

[jam3]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [Removed for Content] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [Removed for Content] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

[Norrsken]

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

[jam3]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59. Freeport is generally the faction with the 10+ greys sitting on the docks doing absolutely nothing until a they can leech or gank someone because of level restrictions so i understand you won't see where i am coming from. People have said it before would 5 level 55s attack a level 70 ^^^ of course not why is this any different?

[Norrsken]

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59.

Then why dont you lvl 70ies find a new spot to sit at? Since ss is a zone where 45-59 are supposed to actually be. And whoa! Guess what? Its the same for a solo FP mage.

[jam3]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59.

Then why dont you lvl 70ies find a new spot to sit at? Since ss is a zone where 45-59 are supposed to actually be. And whoa! Guess what? Its the same for a solo FP mage.

Okay so explain how its alright a level 15 can be on the docks if its a tier 6 zone. Im not gonna bother fighting because its obvious if sinking sands was opened up you'd have to lock at a different tier.

[Norrsken]

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59.

Then why dont you lvl 70ies find a new spot to sit at? Since ss is a zone where 45-59 are supposed to actually be. And whoa! Guess what? Its the same for a solo FP mage.

Okay so explain how its alright a level 15 can be on the docks if its a tier 6 zone. Im not gonna bother fighting because its obvious if sinking sands was opened up you'd have to lock at a different tier.

If a lvl 15 can attack you and survive, that is your problem, you should oneshot him. And I dont see any reason why he shoudlnt be ther any less than he should be in nek. So your argument is, open up all zones to have no limits whatsoever because people are going to zones they are too low to go to? Guess what, that would make 70ies go farm grays in t2/3 zones to no end. Same reason SS have lvl restrictions nowadays. All the [I cannot control my vocabulary] couldnt keep their fingers off the grays, farming the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them. Had they not done that, SS would still be an unlimited zone, I guarantee it. AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies. I wouldnt mind having a stab at the easymode lvl 70 pvp where you by design cant fight people higher level than you.

[Amphibia]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59.

Then why dont you lvl 70ies find a new spot to sit at? Since ss is a zone where 45-59 are supposed to actually be. And whoa! Guess what? Its the same for a solo FP mage.

Okay so explain how its alright a level 15 can be on the docks if its a tier 6 zone. Im not gonna bother fighting because its obvious if sinking sands was opened up you'd have to lock at a different tier.

If a lvl 15 can attack you and survive, that is your problem, you should oneshot him. And I dont see any reason why he shoudlnt be ther any less than he should be in nek. So your argument is, open up all zones to have no limits whatsoever because people are going to zones they are too low to go to? Guess what, that would make 70ies go farm grays in t2/3 zones to no end. Same reason SS have lvl restrictions nowadays. All the [I cannot control my vocabulary] couldnt keep their fingers off the grays, farming the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them. Had they not done that, SS would still be an unlimited zone, I guarantee it. AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies. I wouldnt mind having a stab at the easymode lvl 70 pvp where you by design cant fight people higher level than you.

Heh, who'd notice one level 15 when there are like 20 level 40-59 greys swarming you and hitting you at the same time.... As for 70 being easymode.... try it first, please. Nothing wrong with waiting for guildies etc, but as with most things, experience is the best teacher.

[Ashen-Shugar]

Rabbitoh wrote:

As the title suggested, make SS a zone where any lvl can be attacked like it use to be.

On Naggy the swams of grey leeches around the docks are is becoming ridiculous. Anything from lvl 20s to 61's are camping the dock area to leech fame off lvl 70 players engaged in decent pvp fights.

If these little leeches want to abuse the lvl restrictiions then i suggest SS be opened upped. There is no reason why it shouldn't be as there are plenty of zones for the nooblets to quest in, now that EoF has been introduced.

Maybe this will stop the x2 of greys that just sit there waiting to leech.

Molok ranger of Vigilante.

/agree totally

[Ashen-Shugar]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59.

Then why dont you lvl 70ies find a new spot to sit at? Since ss is a zone where 45-59 are supposed to actually be. And whoa! Guess what? Its the same for a solo FP mage.

Okay so explain how its alright a level 15 can be on the docks if its a tier 6 zone. Im not gonna bother fighting because its obvious if sinking sands was opened up you'd have to lock at a different tier.

If a lvl 15 can attack you and survive, that is your problem, you should oneshot him. And I dont see any reason why he shoudlnt be ther any less than he should be in nek. So your argument is, open up all zones to have no limits whatsoever because people are going to zones they are too low to go to? Guess what, that would make 70ies go farm grays in t2/3 zones to no end. Same reason SS have lvl restrictions nowadays. All the [I cannot control my vocabulary] couldnt keep their fingers off the grays, farming the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them. Had they not done that, SS would still be an unlimited zone, I guarantee it. AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies. I wouldnt mind having a stab at the easymode lvl 70 pvp where you by design cant fight people higher level than you.

easymode is stitting level locked in a zone where your pretty much protected .. and lvl 60 + people arriving to try and kill you will be wiped out quick style so your pretty safe to jump in leach fame and farm greens .. Easymode lvl 59 noob ftl

[Norrsken]

Callis@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59.

Then why dont you lvl 70ies find a new spot to sit at? Since ss is a zone where 45-59 are supposed to actually be. And whoa! Guess what? Its the same for a solo FP mage.

Okay so explain how its alright a level 15 can be on the docks if its a tier 6 zone. Im not gonna bother fighting because its obvious if sinking sands was opened up you'd have to lock at a different tier.

If a lvl 15 can attack you and survive, that is your problem, you should oneshot him. And I dont see any reason why he shoudlnt be ther any less than he should be in nek. So your argument is, open up all zones to have no limits whatsoever because people are going to zones they are too low to go to? Guess what, that would make 70ies go farm grays in t2/3 zones to no end. Same reason SS have lvl restrictions nowadays. All the [I cannot control my vocabulary] couldnt keep their fingers off the grays, farming the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them. Had they not done that, SS would still be an unlimited zone, I guarantee it. AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies. I wouldnt mind having a stab at the easymode lvl 70 pvp where you by design cant fight people higher level than you.

easymode is stitting level locked in a zone where your pretty much protected .. and lvl 60 + people arriving to try and kill you will be wiped out quick style so your pretty safe to jump in leach fame and farm greens .. Easymode lvl 59 noob ftl

Like I said earlier, people claming I do that havent seen me around. I've stood by when a lot of 70 fights went down near me. the times I DO butt in are usually when the guys on my side are losing and need the extra hand. But, I guess you havent seen me around, and I cant really hold that against you, so keep trying.

[Norrsken]

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59.

Then why dont you lvl 70ies find a new spot to sit at? Since ss is a zone where 45-59 are supposed to actually be. And whoa! Guess what? Its the same for a solo FP mage.

Okay so explain how its alright a level 15 can be on the docks if its a tier 6 zone. Im not gonna bother fighting because its obvious if sinking sands was opened up you'd have to lock at a different tier.

If a lvl 15 can attack you and survive, that is your problem, you should oneshot him. And I dont see any reason why he shoudlnt be ther any less than he should be in nek. So your argument is, open up all zones to have no limits whatsoever because people are going to zones they are too low to go to? Guess what, that would make 70ies go farm grays in t2/3 zones to no end. Same reason SS have lvl restrictions nowadays. All the [I cannot control my vocabulary] couldnt keep their fingers off the grays, farming the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them. Had they not done that, SS would still be an unlimited zone, I guarantee it. AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies. I wouldnt mind having a stab at the easymode lvl 70 pvp where you by design cant fight people higher level than you.

Heh, who'd notice one level 15 when there are like 20 level 40-59 greys swarming you and hitting you at the same time.... As for 70 being easymode.... try it first, please. Nothing wrong with waiting for guildies etc, but as with most things, experience is the best teacher.

All good and true. And yeah, Im usually not really noticing them lowbie grays either, especially on my sk, since they usually just kill themselves on my procs. And I'll get there, preferably before RoK too. Hehe.

[HighlandsDrift]

I think if they dont want open the zone back up a more reasonable way to cure the problem is to make it that evertime a grey attacks a red con player they become carnaged flagged for thirty minuets.  This would allow the players that want to use the zone as intended and would make greys think twice before fame leaching.

PLus would allow the person that just got ganked by the leachers to get a lil payback.

Lets face it a group of 59 has a huge advantage over a lvl 70 especialy if that 70 is engaged in pvp with another 70.  Greys have the chance to all gather around thier target and attack at once and now that lower lvl targets land more often you stay stunned or rooted whole time. Why they made it so lower lvl can hit you is beyound me.  IMHO a payer 11 levels lowers should not be able to touch a lvl 70, yet twinked out 59's and thier groups do it all the time.

level locking guilds are just another avenue to get a stupid title that means nothing. 

[shalom]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Aeeron@Nagafen wrote:

my problem is level 15 dreadnaughts have no reason to be there and shoudn't, regardless of if t7 players abused t6 levelers. I dealt with being killed by reds as a grey clothie..alot of us did and now alot of people dont have to deal with it at all. LAME IMO.

So, the lame bit is that you cant harass players as you yourself were harassed? Hmm...

the lame bit is people like you who sit on sinking sands docks and wait for a tier 7 fight to happen and you cast one spell and bull [I cannot control my vocabulary] leech the fame/status/faction/token whatever. and yes its [I cannot control my vocabulary] that people were griefed countlessly in tier 6 and then they suddenly change the pvp limit.

Lol. You obviously havent seen me around then. Np, wont hold that against you. Keep on whining about not being able to farm grays in a zone you really dont have any buisness being in. IT makes you look so good.

,go play qeynos please sit on sinking sands docks as a mage and watch how many level 59s stand next to you for 1 minute swarming and kililng you. It USED to be a nice place to find fights but its now used to get free faction fame and status at level 10-59.

Then why dont you lvl 70ies find a new spot to sit at? Since ss is a zone where 45-59 are supposed to actually be. And whoa! Guess what? Its the same for a solo FP mage.

Okay so explain how its alright a level 15 can be on the docks if its a tier 6 zone. Im not gonna bother fighting because its obvious if sinking sands was opened up you'd have to lock at a different tier.

If a lvl 15 can attack you and survive, that is your problem, you should oneshot him. And I dont see any reason why he shoudlnt be ther any less than he should be in nek. So your argument is, open up all zones to have no limits whatsoever because people are going to zones they are too low to go to? Guess what, that would make 70ies go farm grays in t2/3 zones to no end. Same reason SS have lvl restrictions nowadays. All the [I cannot control my vocabulary] couldnt keep their fingers off the grays, farming the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out of them. Had they not done that, SS would still be an unlimited zone, I guarantee it. AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies. I wouldnt mind having a stab at the easymode lvl 70 pvp where you by design cant fight people higher level than you.

Easymode? Once you grow some and lvl to 60 you'll find 70s are a different fish.  You don't know if this lvl70 has M/C gear or EOF Raid gear...the difference is tremendous.  At 70 you have to know your opponents, what gear they have, how they like to open, etc.

If you think 70 is easymode compared to 59, do yourself a favor and stay there...you wont like 70.

[Darkor]

Cant be arsed to argue with locked lvl 59 player.

[Tanan]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies.

I invite everyone to go look at the guild roster of Shadow Lords of Nagafan and make your own decision.

[Darkor]

Tanan@Venekor wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies.

I invite everyone to go look at the guild roster of Shadow Lords of Nagafan and make your own decision.

Ulvhammer just got pwned - ROFLMAO!

[Izzypop]

Let's start hearing ways that the problem of leeches can be fixed in all zones. Universal level ranges in all zones.  The level range players can attack you in should not change from zone to zone. I have heard many players ask for this.  They usual example is a 4 level range until level X, then a 6 until level Y then an 8 until level Z all the way up until at some point your ranges become unlimited. Nerf Gray vhs Red infamy hits both ways.  Grays and reds can fight, sometimes it's fun, but it shouldn't count for full infamy hits.  It's usually going to be either a swarm of grays attacking a horribly outnumbered reds, or a red attempting to trick grays into attacking him while grays are fighting other grays. Targeting the SS docks just means the gangs of infamy leeching red ganking grays will move to the KoS spires and still gank reds while protected by gray immunity.

[Bloodfa]

Level range following through zones regardless of where you are, I like that.  But what about groups?  Average level vs average level?  Raids?  Just curious as to how that would be implemented.

[Norrsken]

Tanan@Venekor wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

AND, the reason I am staying 59 is Im waiting for slow leveling guildies.

I invite everyone to go look at the guild roster of Shadow Lords of Nagafan and make your own decision.

Uhm, whats wrong with it? We really dont have anyone at 70 since up till about gu36, people didnt like the way t7 pvp were completely unbalanced. So, we never moved into those levels. We also lost about 3/4 of our members a few monts back, and the current plan is to make it to 70 with a solid group to get some new casual hardcore pvpers. Feel free to look at the roster all you like. PRetty much every member we have is a kickass pvper. And yeha, most of us have locked lowbie toons. Most people have you know, and I've never even tried to hide that we in shadow lords do.