Raiding Templars: new AA's: Yeah? Nay? or I dont give a rat's buttoodie? - Page 2

Hoopak · 07-12-2007, 04:59 PM

I thought i noticed a t7 +7 parry forearm adornment. Just want to make sure that parry affects shield ally or not.

Istaril · 07-12-2007, 06:01 PM

As has been mentioned.... frequently... within this topic... we do not have the Parry skill, so adding 7 to it does nothing. Using a flat 2% boost to it, though, grants us 2% parry. Shield Ally ONLY uses your Block (Based off the "protection" value of your shield) and Parry (max of 2*2%, with 2 parry adornments).

Hoopak · 07-12-2007, 08:02 PM

just making sure i understood that right.

EQAditu · 07-12-2007, 11:07 PM

I just want to mention that avoiding every other cast of Furious Storm(stifle) from Gardener with Holy Shield is great. Throw in Sanctuary and Freedom of Mind and that's the first 5 AEs you more or less avoid. With group cure arcane... that's essentially your whole group protected if you throw up Aegis of Faith as well.

Krymson · 07-13-2007, 11:56 AM

With the mention of Furious Storm, does the new Steadfast stifle immunity prevent the stifle portion of Storm? It would seem like it should, but its wording implies that it won't prevent all types of stifle.

EQAditu · 07-15-2007, 12:31 PM

An Inquisitor friend tested it out and said that the stifle immunity would toggle on and off quickly as time went by. Supposedly more off than on. I imagine it would work on any type of stifle though... at least ones you're supposed to be able to cure etc.

Dekedar · 07-15-2007, 12:41 PM

I used to use SA but respeced for crit heals along with faster casting, after reading this I respeced back for SA, but now my question is which provides more benefit, increased casting speed or crit heals,I definitely like divine recovery, but I think crit heals may be more beneficial.

Istaril · 07-15-2007, 01:54 PM

It's a toss-up. I have a Vrak-claw club, so I'm satisfied staying down STA (4-4-7- SMILEY

with AGI (4-4-8-8-2). But really, any combination of Shield Ally, Heal Crits, and Faster Casting = just fine. You're not gimping your character by not having heal crits (accounts for about 3.5% of your heals), you're not gimping him by not having fast cast. Just because double-attack and melee crit work well together, doesn't make AGI/sta any better - as fastcast/casting crits does the same (working synergistically). Holy Shield is a very powerful tool, but Divine Recovery comes in pretty handy too. I'd say that the default spec for a templar should be STA/Int, but once he can afford the adornments/shield which supports Shield Ally, and *if* he is a main-tank RAID healer consistently, he should drop one of Sta/Int for Agi (4-4-8-8, at least, and probably 4-4-8-8-2). I've spent quite a while working at the stats, and of the three lines there's no clear winner.

EQAditu · 07-17-2007, 04:34 AM

I thought I would show off the to-be-released Avoidance Report coming with the next version of ACT.

That was from through a full run of MMIS I did today. The average damage avoided calculations is not simply determined by taking a mob's average attack and multiplying it by the number of occurrences. It takes the average attack, of that type, that the mob inflicted on that person only. That way if the mob hit a bunch of dumbfire pets, the average is not inflated. Except when the mob never successfully hits that specific person, then it uses the average on anyone as a fallback. That's the most accurate way I could think of making a theoretical calculation. I was going to leave it that, but for the sake of comparison... healing crits only accounted for 25-36k of my 611k healing for that zone depending on how you try to calculate it. However that's about as low as it will get as I was not the only Templar there. The other Templar maintained single target reactives on the MT so I could concentrate on the group only spells AND the other Templar did heal proc debuffs (32% of her healing). I still came in 3rd on the heal parses though, so it could be worse. To be honest, I'm somewhat surprised at the results. Shield Ally prevented far more in comparison to how much healing crits added for me on the same run. Even if you add the two Templar's healing together, it doesn't come close. Of course I feel the need to point out the flaw of comparing two things that are not at all alike. *shrug*

Istaril · 07-17-2007, 06:15 AM

Which pretty much matches the calculations I ran by hand earlier on (this topic? it was these boards at least SMILEY

). The comparison may be apple and oranges, but once you factor in a few more factors (as I did) - like the chance of a stoneskin that would have negated a hit you did avoid - you get a fairly realistic impression of the damage YOU prevented, and heal crits are easy to calculate the damage YOU healed. One is focussed on an important target, the other is spread out over many... And as the tanks avoidance rises, as the number of targets taking damage rises, as the mob's non-melee damage rises in comparison to it's melee - STA line becomes better. But I'll take the passive, mana-free, lag-independent Shield Ally SMILEY

. That, and holy shield is a godsend - as mentioned, saved me alot of trouble on Gardener.

myth327-2 · 07-17-2007, 02:27 PM

Very nice Aditu, I'm sure I'm not the only one who will get Great use out of this. Thanks ever so much, I look forward to playing with it to see how much I'm actually doing =)

TheBu · 07-24-2007, 03:55 PM

u rock Aditu. That avoidance report is great.

and we can see the "You parry" so the adornments do work... will any thing else... hum intresting we do not see a monk or pally avoid in ther for ur tank... u guys running three healers? What about intercede will it show up in a report or some where else?

Tuttiax · 07-25-2007, 07:40 PM

how much of an impact will the changes to lend shielding be? On TC it sounds like lend shield will cancel if placed on a character that's being used as an additional avoidance modifier. I'm not sure if I'm understanding that right or not.

EQAditu · 07-25-2007, 09:07 PM

Tuttiax wrote:

how much of an impact will the changes to lend shielding be? On TC it sounds like lend shield will cancel if placed on a character that's being used as an additional avoidance modifier. I'm not sure if I'm understanding that right or not.

None of my Dirges use Lend Shielding, so for me... there will be absolutely no impact. The patch is fixing a mechanics exploit that most had decided would be fixed eventually. Shield Ally stands alone quite nicely without it. TheBuzZ wrote:

u rock Aditu. That avoidance report is great.
and we can see the "You parry" so the adornments do work... will any thing else... hum intresting we do not see a monk or pally avoid in ther for ur tank... u guys running three healers? What about intercede will it show up in a report or some where else?

Other classes such as brawlers/crusaders using their buff along side with Shield Ally will show up much the same. Instead of "YOU block", you might see something like "Crusader1 parries". I don't think that intercede shows up in log files as anything I can parse. Stoneskin isn't logged either... I just make assumptions based on removing other possibilities. It's possible that a 100% intercede shows up as "No Damage", thus is counted under the shared stoneskin row.

wesblueeyes · 07-26-2007, 11:33 AM

I think the biggest reason some pick the line with shield blocks is for the end ability to avoid AE's. In my opinion the line is garbage but that end ability to be able to give an ally AE avoid for 30s with a 1.5 minute refresh is godly. In the MT group you can toss this ability on yourself or a fellow healer right before an AE goes off (if you use timers correctly) to prevent a lot of bad things happening. For instance you are fighting the new Mayong in Throne room, you can toss the avoid up right before he does the AE stun allowing someone in your group (you or another healer) to be able to cure it ASAP. There are plenty of EoF raid mobs that do AE stuns in the higher ends, especially Avatars. All that being said that is one reason to spec into that end line ability.

I am currently spec'd STR/INT but I am not a MT Templar. I am a dps Templar normally placed in the mage group (yes I can pull 1600 dps so we CAN dps if spec'd right).

The benifits of the STR line for a cleric in my position are many.

1. The STR line offers a 40% proc rate (which is 50% with blessings) that procs whenever you do a melee or spell attack. I prefer to use spells only so it goes off quit a bit.

2. There is also a nice 1% per rank and some focus per rank ability that helps you take a few more hits (I think at 6 ranks it added about 700hp)

3. The end line ability of STR makes you immune to interupts and a chance to become immune to stifle. Now I have never seen the stifle part proc but I can tell you the interupt part works great. Example: Fighting contested Mayong you get bat adds that sometimes proc a stun. Whenever it hits you normally, you stop casting. Howeve with this ability I get hit with it and I finish out my spell. This has really pulled my mages out of the fire since I can complete that group heal/reactive. Pretty much unless you get tossed up in the air you will NEVER get interupted.

Anyways my current spec is STR 4-4-8-6-End, INT 4-4-7-8-End in KOS and fully done in the Blessings line for all the debuffs and selectively spec'd all way down the Smite Wrath line in EoF.

This current setup I can tell you from experience I have done a month in. So far I have done Avatars of Flame, Growth, Tranq, Hate, War, and Valor along with all the contested in EOF and zones. Basically I am saying I have come to respect the spec but I would not espose it if you are the MT templar, only if you do mages or offtank.

Tuttiax · 07-26-2007, 11:37 AM

excellent thanks.

Drazmarth · 08-02-2007, 03:46 PM

I just respec'd for the AGI and STA lines. I think they are going to work out great and I did try out the round shield for the extra protection. I noticed a problem in the AGI line. The shield bash works with a buckler but does not work with the round shield. Has anyone else had this problem and if so has there been a bug submitted for this? I thought they took out the type of shield requirement for these like the weapon ones.

Istaril · 08-04-2007, 08:17 AM

It's intentional, as far as we know. Supposed to only work with bucklers - and still does. It seems that Templars using Round Shields at all is an oversight... but enjoy it while you can. Just throw in a command to equip a buckler before you use the mez - the problem is easily avoided. And as an aside - I was really worried (being me) that AGI/STA would seriously cripple my DPS. On the contrary - it's actually worked out very nicely. My Parses in MT group have gone up considerably, and as we've lost our other templar, I've no longer got the chance to run around with a troub in group, so it's all worked out for the best. EH 2nd floor trash (fun test dummies): [Sorted by ExtDPS, Listing DPS] MT group = Coercer, Dirge, Berserker, Templar, Warden, Defiler No clickies, no god abilities... just straight up Templar goodness. Allies: (00:5 SMILEY

Krymson · 08-04-2007, 02:24 PM

Istaril wrote:

It's intentional, as far as we know. Supposed to only work with bucklers - and still does. It seems that Templars using Round Shields at all is an oversight... but enjoy it while you can. Just throw in a command to equip a buckler before you use the mez - the problem is easily avoided. And as an aside - I was really worried (being me) that AGI/STA would seriously cripple my DPS. On the contrary - it's actually worked out very nicely. My Parses in MT group have gone up considerably, and as we've lost our other templar, I've no longer got the chance to run around with a troub in group, so it's all worked out for the best. EH 2nd floor trash (fun test dummies): [Sorted by ExtDPS, Listing DPS] MT group = Coercer, Dirge, Berserker, Templar, Warden, Defiler No clickies, no god abilities... just straight up Templar goodness. Allies: (00:5 1587128 | 27364.28 CONJ 139926 -|- 2798.52 DPS SWASH 124689 -|- 2397.87 DPS ILLU 116654 -|- 2333.08 DPS SWASH 112130 -|- 2491.78 DPS Istaril 108599 -|- 1974.53 DPS [I cannot control my vocabulary] 98309 -|- 1966.18 DPS NECRO 96582 -|- 2054.94 DPS WIZ 94648 -|- 1855.84 DPS BERSERKER 91115 -|- 1627.05 DPS BRIG 89941 -|- 1729.64 DPS BRIG 82248 -|- 1551.85 DPS GUARD 76750 -|- 1504.90 DPS COERCER 63011 -|- 1260.22 DPS DIRGE 61856 -|- 1237.12 DPS

And this parse was done with 1H and shield (using Shield Ally)? Or was this with the Vrak club?

Gagla · 08-04-2007, 04:56 PM

For those templars raiding in Qeynos on PVP servers, I've just noticed there is a lvl 55 Roundshield equipable by priests with 700+ protection available from the merchants in QH. Alas, I am in exile and am unable to try it out.

Istaril · 08-04-2007, 08:11 PM

That was with a vrak club, though my inquisitor friend swears by his grim brimstone hammer... which I have yet to get my hands on. The trash didn't merit shield ally. Getting the same results (1.8-1.9k tops) on third floor trash today.

Krymson · 08-05-2007, 02:04 AM

I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club.

Kizee · 08-06-2007, 09:00 AM

Krymson wrote:

I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club.

If you guild lets you? SMILEY

If you are the MT templar then why wouldn't they let you use a spec that will help the MT block attacks more?

LowfyrWildforge · 08-07-2007, 01:57 PM

If you're the MT templar and you're not dedicating your full time to healing the raid, who is picking up the slack?

Someone with better DPS than you.

Take a hit for the team, and stop worrying about how big of a dps badarse you are.

If the encounter's that trivial that heals aren't needed at all, then have the tank go offensive. Still too trivial? Transmute the firebrand gloves for me, they look like oven mitts.

Istaril · 08-07-2007, 03:08 PM

That's EH trash. The Tank WAS in offensive... why wouldn't he be? It's trivial stuff. My point was that my full-heal STA/AGI line has not crippled my versatility - my ability to contribute to the raid when my healing isn't needed. Where before I relied entirely on my nukes, now I rely on hybrid dps - but the end result is even more satisfying for an MT group. Preheals and debuffs maintained, the tank took 12991 damage (total) in that specific parse. I'd have been slacking if I wasn't trying to DPS. And I'm afraid I'm not sure I follow about the firebrand gloves.

Krymson · 08-07-2007, 03:38 PM

Kizee wrote:

Krymson wrote:
I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club.
If you guild lets you?
If you are the MT templar then why wouldn't they let you use a spec that will help the MT block attacks more?

No, no. Not if they let me, if they go along with it. Some people <3 Divine Recovery. Like I said, I'm pretty shoddy at cycling it in anyway either cuz I'm a bad player or because I don't care quite enough about it to keep it coming in a MT setting. The avoidance parses with theoretical number make plenty of sense to me, now it's just a matter of getting the adornments and explaining why I'm using a treasured KoS shield. And as for the firebrand gloves comment? Unless I'm missing something it was just a random slam on the oven mitt model.

Larcain · 08-07-2007, 07:51 PM

Krymson wrote:

Kizee wrote:
Krymson wrote:
I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club.
If you guild lets you?
If you are the MT templar then why wouldn't they let you use a spec that will help the MT block attacks more?
No, no. Not if they let me, if they go along with it. Some people <3 Divine Recovery. Like I said, I'm pretty shoddy at cycling it in anyway either cuz I'm a bad player or because I don't care quite enough about it to keep it coming in a MT setting. The avoidance parses with theoretical number make plenty of sense to me, now it's just a matter of getting the adornments and explaining why I'm using a treasured KoS shield. And as for the firebrand gloves comment? Unless I'm missing something it was just a random slam on the oven mitt model.

I , personally, use DR as an ace in the hole. When the tank starts taking spike damage, I use DR to put as much healing on him as I can. I don't cycle DR in most fights simply because most fights are not won or lost on dps. They are lost because of aggro issues or damage spike issues and I am not willing to risk losing my tank because DR was used to generate dps. But, heck, thats me.

Kizee · 08-08-2007, 09:12 AM

Larcain wrote:

Krymson wrote:
Kizee wrote:
Krymson wrote:
I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club.
If you guild lets you?
If you are the MT templar then why wouldn't they let you use a spec that will help the MT block attacks more?
No, no. Not if they let me, if they go along with it. Some people <3 Divine Recovery. Like I said, I'm pretty shoddy at cycling it in anyway either cuz I'm a bad player or because I don't care quite enough about it to keep it coming in a MT setting. The avoidance parses with theoretical number make plenty of sense to me, now it's just a matter of getting the adornments and explaining why I'm using a treasured KoS shield. And as for the firebrand gloves comment? Unless I'm missing something it was just a random slam on the oven mitt model.
I , personally, use DR as an ace in the hole. When the tank starts taking spike damage, I use DR to put as much healing on him as I can. I don't cycle DR in most fights simply because most fights are not won or lost on dps. They are lost because of aggro issues or damage spike issues and I am not willing to risk losing my tank because DR was used to generate dps. But, heck, thats me.

I was the same way when I was speced intel.

I didn't want to use DR because I was scared it would be down when i actually needed it for rapid healing.

LowfyrWildforge · 08-08-2007, 11:15 AM

It would be kind of silly to shield bash if you didn't have a shield on at all. Since Templars are only supposed to be able to use Bucklers, if you're not using a buckler, you're clearly not using a shield.

Whining about this oversight is much more likely to get the equippable round shields made unusable than the round shields added to shield bash.

Incidentally, there's really not that big of a difference between the Bulwark of the Brave, and the Festering Flesh Buckler. I expect, by the time t8 rolls around, this round shield equipping nonsense will be finally over.

07-12-2007, 04:59 PM	#31
Hoopak Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 32	I thought i noticed a t7 +7 parry forearm adornment. Just want to make sure that parry affects shield ally or not. __________________ Legion Nagafan Blueboy 80 iquisitor 80 Provisioner Nektulos Legion and studboy on naggy Join the Legion of Fiends

07-12-2007, 08:02 PM	#33
Hoopak Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 32	just making sure i understood that right. __________________ Legion Nagafan Blueboy 80 iquisitor 80 Provisioner Nektulos Legion and studboy on naggy Join the Legion of Fiends

07-12-2007, 11:07 PM	#34
EQAditu Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 308	I just want to mention that avoiding every other cast of Furious Storm(stifle) from Gardener with Holy Shield is great. Throw in Sanctuary and Freedom of Mind and that's the first 5 AEs you more or less avoid. With group cure arcane... that's essentially your whole group protected if you throw up Aegis of Faith as well. __________________ (EQ2) Aditu -- Templar of Nektulos(Lavastorm)->Permafrost (EQ1) Aditu Sa`onserei -- Cleric of The Tribunal My parsing project:

07-13-2007, 11:56 AM	#35
Krymson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	With the mention of Furious Storm, does the new Steadfast stifle immunity prevent the stifle portion of Storm? It would seem like it should, but its wording implies that it won't prevent all types of stifle. __________________

07-15-2007, 12:31 PM	#36
EQAditu Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 308	An Inquisitor friend tested it out and said that the stifle immunity would toggle on and off quickly as time went by. Supposedly more off than on. I imagine it would work on any type of stifle though... at least ones you're supposed to be able to cure etc. __________________ (EQ2) Aditu -- Templar of Nektulos(Lavastorm)->Permafrost (EQ1) Aditu Sa`onserei -- Cleric of The Tribunal My parsing project:

07-12-2007, 06:01 PM	#32
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	As has been mentioned.... frequently... within this topic... we do not have the Parry skill, so adding 7 to it does nothing. Using a flat 2% boost to it, though, grants us 2% parry. Shield Ally ONLY uses your Block (Based off the "protection" value of your shield) and Parry (max of 2*2%, with 2 parry adornments).

07-15-2007, 12:41 PM	#37
Dekedar Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 156	I used to use SA but respeced for crit heals along with faster casting, after reading this I respeced back for SA, but now my question is which provides more benefit, increased casting speed or crit heals,I definitely like divine recovery, but I think crit heals may be more beneficial. __________________

07-15-2007, 01:54 PM	#38
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	It's a toss-up. I have a Vrak-claw club, so I'm satisfied staying down STA (4-4-7- with AGI (4-4-8-8-2). But really, any combination of Shield Ally, Heal Crits, and Faster Casting = just fine. You're not gimping your character by not having heal crits (accounts for about 3.5% of your heals), you're not gimping him by not having fast cast. Just because double-attack and melee crit work well together, doesn't make AGI/sta any better - as fastcast/casting crits does the same (working synergistically). Holy Shield is a very powerful tool, but Divine Recovery comes in pretty handy too. I'd say that the default spec for a templar should be STA/Int, but once he can afford the adornments/shield which supports Shield Ally, and if he is a main-tank RAID healer consistently, he should drop one of Sta/Int for Agi (4-4-8-8, at least, and probably 4-4-8-8-2). I've spent quite a while working at the stats, and of the three lines there's no clear winner.

07-17-2007, 04:34 AM	#39
EQAditu Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 308	I thought I would show off the to-be-released Avoidance Report coming with the next version of ACT. That was from through a full run of MMIS I did today. The average damage avoided calculations is not simply determined by taking a mob's average attack and multiplying it by the number of occurrences. It takes the average attack, of that type, that the mob inflicted on that person only. That way if the mob hit a bunch of dumbfire pets, the average is not inflated. Except when the mob never successfully hits that specific person, then it uses the average on anyone as a fallback. That's the most accurate way I could think of making a theoretical calculation. I was going to leave it that, but for the sake of comparison... healing crits only accounted for 25-36k of my 611k healing for that zone depending on how you try to calculate it. However that's about as low as it will get as I was not the only Templar there. The other Templar maintained single target reactives on the MT so I could concentrate on the group only spells AND the other Templar did heal proc debuffs (32% of her healing). I still came in 3rd on the heal parses though, so it could be worse. To be honest, I'm somewhat surprised at the results. Shield Ally prevented far more in comparison to how much healing crits added for me on the same run. Even if you add the two Templar's healing together, it doesn't come close. Of course I feel the need to point out the flaw of comparing two things that are not at all alike. shrug __________________ (EQ2) Aditu -- Templar of Nektulos(Lavastorm)->Permafrost (EQ1) Aditu Sa`onserei -- Cleric of The Tribunal My parsing project:

07-17-2007, 06:15 AM	#40
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	Which pretty much matches the calculations I ran by hand earlier on (this topic? it was these boards at least ). The comparison may be apple and oranges, but once you factor in a few more factors (as I did) - like the chance of a stoneskin that would have negated a hit you did avoid - you get a fairly realistic impression of the damage YOU prevented, and heal crits are easy to calculate the damage YOU healed. One is focussed on an important target, the other is spread out over many... And as the tanks avoidance rises, as the number of targets taking damage rises, as the mob's non-melee damage rises in comparison to it's melee - STA line becomes better. But I'll take the passive, mana-free, lag-independent Shield Ally . That, and holy shield is a godsend - as mentioned, saved me alot of trouble on Gardener.

07-17-2007, 02:27 PM	#41
myth327-2 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12	Very nice Aditu, I'm sure I'm not the only one who will get Great use out of this. Thanks ever so much, I look forward to playing with it to see how much I'm actually doing =)

07-24-2007, 03:55 PM	#42
TheBu General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 400	u rock Aditu. That avoidance report is great. and we can see the "You parry" so the adornments do work... will any thing else... hum intresting we do not see a monk or pally avoid in ther for ur tank... u guys running three healers? What about intercede will it show up in a report or some where else?

07-25-2007, 07:40 PM	#43
Tuttiax Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 14	how much of an impact will the changes to lend shielding be? On TC it sounds like lend shield will cancel if placed on a character that's being used as an additional avoidance modifier. I'm not sure if I'm understanding that right or not.

07-25-2007, 09:07 PM	#44
EQAditu Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 308	Tuttiax wrote: how much of an impact will the changes to lend shielding be? On TC it sounds like lend shield will cancel if placed on a character that's being used as an additional avoidance modifier. I'm not sure if I'm understanding that right or not. None of my Dirges use Lend Shielding, so for me... there will be absolutely no impact. The patch is fixing a mechanics exploit that most had decided would be fixed eventually. Shield Ally stands alone quite nicely without it. TheBuzZ wrote: u rock Aditu. That avoidance report is great. and we can see the "You parry" so the adornments do work... will any thing else... hum intresting we do not see a monk or pally avoid in ther for ur tank... u guys running three healers? What about intercede will it show up in a report or some where else? Other classes such as brawlers/crusaders using their buff along side with Shield Ally will show up much the same. Instead of "YOU block", you might see something like "Crusader1 parries". I don't think that intercede shows up in log files as anything I can parse. Stoneskin isn't logged either... I just make assumptions based on removing other possibilities. It's possible that a 100% intercede shows up as "No Damage", thus is counted under the shared stoneskin row. __________________ (EQ2) Aditu -- Templar of Nektulos(Lavastorm)->Permafrost (EQ1) Aditu Sa`onserei -- Cleric of The Tribunal My parsing project:

07-26-2007, 11:33 AM	#45
wesblueeyes Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hades Posts: 81	I think the biggest reason some pick the line with shield blocks is for the end ability to avoid AE's. In my opinion the line is garbage but that end ability to be able to give an ally AE avoid for 30s with a 1.5 minute refresh is godly. In the MT group you can toss this ability on yourself or a fellow healer right before an AE goes off (if you use timers correctly) to prevent a lot of bad things happening. For instance you are fighting the new Mayong in Throne room, you can toss the avoid up right before he does the AE stun allowing someone in your group (you or another healer) to be able to cure it ASAP. There are plenty of EoF raid mobs that do AE stuns in the higher ends, especially Avatars. All that being said that is one reason to spec into that end line ability. I am currently spec'd STR/INT but I am not a MT Templar. I am a dps Templar normally placed in the mage group (yes I can pull 1600 dps so we CAN dps if spec'd right). The benifits of the STR line for a cleric in my position are many. 1. The STR line offers a 40% proc rate (which is 50% with blessings) that procs whenever you do a melee or spell attack. I prefer to use spells only so it goes off quit a bit. 2. There is also a nice 1% per rank and some focus per rank ability that helps you take a few more hits (I think at 6 ranks it added about 700hp) 3. The end line ability of STR makes you immune to interupts and a chance to become immune to stifle. Now I have never seen the stifle part proc but I can tell you the interupt part works great. Example: Fighting contested Mayong you get bat adds that sometimes proc a stun. Whenever it hits you normally, you stop casting. Howeve with this ability I get hit with it and I finish out my spell. This has really pulled my mages out of the fire since I can complete that group heal/reactive. Pretty much unless you get tossed up in the air you will NEVER get interupted. Anyways my current spec is STR 4-4-8-6-End, INT 4-4-7-8-End in KOS and fully done in the Blessings line for all the debuffs and selectively spec'd all way down the Smite Wrath line in EoF. This current setup I can tell you from experience I have done a month in. So far I have done Avatars of Flame, Growth, Tranq, Hate, War, and Valor along with all the contested in EOF and zones. Basically I am saying I have come to respect the spec but I would not espose it if you are the MT templar, only if you do mages or offtank.

07-26-2007, 11:37 AM	#46
Tuttiax Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 14	excellent thanks.

08-02-2007, 03:46 PM	#47
Drazmarth Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2	I just respec'd for the AGI and STA lines. I think they are going to work out great and I did try out the round shield for the extra protection. I noticed a problem in the AGI line. The shield bash works with a buckler but does not work with the round shield. Has anyone else had this problem and if so has there been a bug submitted for this? I thought they took out the type of shield requirement for these like the weapon ones. __________________ This one time, at band camp, I stuck a flute up....Wait...What?

08-04-2007, 08:17 AM	#48
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	It's intentional, as far as we know. Supposed to only work with bucklers - and still does. It seems that Templars using Round Shields at all is an oversight... but enjoy it while you can. Just throw in a command to equip a buckler before you use the mez - the problem is easily avoided. And as an aside - I was really worried (being me) that AGI/STA would seriously cripple my DPS. On the contrary - it's actually worked out very nicely. My Parses in MT group have gone up considerably, and as we've lost our other templar, I've no longer got the chance to run around with a troub in group, so it's all worked out for the best. EH 2nd floor trash (fun test dummies): [Sorted by ExtDPS, Listing DPS] MT group = Coercer, Dirge, Berserker, Templar, Warden, Defiler No clickies, no god abilities... just straight up Templar goodness. Allies: (00:5 1587128 \| 27364.28 CONJ 139926 -\|- 2798.52 DPS SWASH 124689 -\|- 2397.87 DPS ILLU 116654 -\|- 2333.08 DPS SWASH 112130 -\|- 2491.78 DPS Istaril 108599 -\|- 1974.53 DPS [Removed for Content] 98309 -\|- 1966.18 DPS NECRO 96582 -\|- 2054.94 DPS WIZ 94648 -\|- 1855.84 DPS BERSERKER 91115 -\|- 1627.05 DPS BRIG 89941 -\|- 1729.64 DPS BRIG 82248 -\|- 1551.85 DPS GUARD 76750 -\|- 1504.90 DPS COERCER 63011 -\|- 1260.22 DPS DIRGE 61856 -\|- 1237.12 DPS

08-04-2007, 02:24 PM	#49
Krymson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	Istaril wrote: It's intentional, as far as we know. Supposed to only work with bucklers - and still does. It seems that Templars using Round Shields at all is an oversight... but enjoy it while you can. Just throw in a command to equip a buckler before you use the mez - the problem is easily avoided. And as an aside - I was really worried (being me) that AGI/STA would seriously cripple my DPS. On the contrary - it's actually worked out very nicely. My Parses in MT group have gone up considerably, and as we've lost our other templar, I've no longer got the chance to run around with a troub in group, so it's all worked out for the best. EH 2nd floor trash (fun test dummies): [Sorted by ExtDPS, Listing DPS] MT group = Coercer, Dirge, Berserker, Templar, Warden, Defiler No clickies, no god abilities... just straight up Templar goodness. Allies: (00:5 1587128 \| 27364.28 CONJ 139926 -\|- 2798.52 DPS SWASH 124689 -\|- 2397.87 DPS ILLU 116654 -\|- 2333.08 DPS SWASH 112130 -\|- 2491.78 DPS Istaril 108599 -\|- 1974.53 DPS [I cannot control my vocabulary] 98309 -\|- 1966.18 DPS NECRO 96582 -\|- 2054.94 DPS WIZ 94648 -\|- 1855.84 DPS BERSERKER 91115 -\|- 1627.05 DPS BRIG 89941 -\|- 1729.64 DPS BRIG 82248 -\|- 1551.85 DPS GUARD 76750 -\|- 1504.90 DPS COERCER 63011 -\|- 1260.22 DPS DIRGE 61856 -\|- 1237.12 DPS And this parse was done with 1H and shield (using Shield Ally)? Or was this with the Vrak club? __________________

08-04-2007, 04:56 PM	#50
Gagla General Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New York Posts: 159	For those templars raiding in Qeynos on PVP servers, I've just noticed there is a lvl 55 Roundshield equipable by priests with 700+ protection available from the merchants in QH. Alas, I am in exile and am unable to try it out.

08-04-2007, 08:11 PM	#51
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	That was with a vrak club, though my inquisitor friend swears by his grim brimstone hammer... which I have yet to get my hands on. The trash didn't merit shield ally. Getting the same results (1.8-1.9k tops) on third floor trash today.

08-05-2007, 02:04 AM	#52
Krymson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club. __________________

08-06-2007, 09:00 AM	#53
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	Krymson wrote: I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club. If you guild lets you? If you are the MT templar then why wouldn't they let you use a spec that will help the MT block attacks more?

08-07-2007, 01:57 PM	#54
LowfyrWildforge Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 112	If you're the MT templar and you're not dedicating your full time to healing the raid, who is picking up the slack? Someone with better DPS than you. Take a hit for the team, and stop worrying about how big of a dps badarse you are. If the encounter's that trivial that heals aren't needed at all, then have the tank go offensive. Still too trivial? Transmute the firebrand gloves for me, they look like oven mitts.

08-07-2007, 03:08 PM	#55
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	That's EH trash. The Tank WAS in offensive... why wouldn't he be? It's trivial stuff. My point was that my full-heal STA/AGI line has not crippled my versatility - my ability to contribute to the raid when my healing isn't needed. Where before I relied entirely on my nukes, now I rely on hybrid dps - but the end result is even more satisfying for an MT group. Preheals and debuffs maintained, the tank took 12991 damage (total) in that specific parse. I'd have been slacking if I wasn't trying to DPS. And I'm afraid I'm not sure I follow about the firebrand gloves.

08-07-2007, 03:38 PM	#56
Krymson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	Kizee wrote: Krymson wrote: I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club. If you guild lets you? If you are the MT templar then why wouldn't they let you use a spec that will help the MT block attacks more? No, no. Not if they let me, if they go along with it. Some people <3 Divine Recovery. Like I said, I'm pretty shoddy at cycling it in anyway either cuz I'm a bad player or because I don't care quite enough about it to keep it coming in a MT setting. The avoidance parses with theoretical number make plenty of sense to me, now it's just a matter of getting the adornments and explaining why I'm using a treasured KoS shield. And as for the firebrand gloves comment? Unless I'm missing something it was just a random slam on the oven mitt model. __________________

08-07-2007, 07:51 PM	#57
Larcain Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 45	Krymson wrote: Kizee wrote: Krymson wrote: I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club. If you guild lets you? If you are the MT templar then why wouldn't they let you use a spec that will help the MT block attacks more? No, no. Not if they let me, if they go along with it. Some people <3 Divine Recovery. Like I said, I'm pretty shoddy at cycling it in anyway either cuz I'm a bad player or because I don't care quite enough about it to keep it coming in a MT setting. The avoidance parses with theoretical number make plenty of sense to me, now it's just a matter of getting the adornments and explaining why I'm using a treasured KoS shield. And as for the firebrand gloves comment? Unless I'm missing something it was just a random slam on the oven mitt model. I , personally, use DR as an ace in the hole. When the tank starts taking spike damage, I use DR to put as much healing on him as I can. I don't cycle DR in most fights simply because most fights are not won or lost on dps. They are lost because of aggro issues or damage spike issues and I am not willing to risk losing my tank because DR was used to generate dps. But, heck, thats me. __________________

08-08-2007, 09:12 AM	#58
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	Larcain wrote: Krymson wrote: Kizee wrote: Krymson wrote: I've been running STA/INT since time began, it seems. If I can get my guild to go along with it, I'm going to how they feel about me going AGI/STA (I've always been bad about casting Divine Recovery anyway) and helping with the trio of adornments. Oddly enough it would probably be easier for me to get a Grim Brimstone Hammer than the Vrak Club. If you guild lets you? If you are the MT templar then why wouldn't they let you use a spec that will help the MT block attacks more? No, no. Not if they let me, if they go along with it. Some people <3 Divine Recovery. Like I said, I'm pretty shoddy at cycling it in anyway either cuz I'm a bad player or because I don't care quite enough about it to keep it coming in a MT setting. The avoidance parses with theoretical number make plenty of sense to me, now it's just a matter of getting the adornments and explaining why I'm using a treasured KoS shield. And as for the firebrand gloves comment? Unless I'm missing something it was just a random slam on the oven mitt model. I , personally, use DR as an ace in the hole. When the tank starts taking spike damage, I use DR to put as much healing on him as I can. I don't cycle DR in most fights simply because most fights are not won or lost on dps. They are lost because of aggro issues or damage spike issues and I am not willing to risk losing my tank because DR was used to generate dps. But, heck, thats me. I was the same way when I was speced intel. I didn't want to use DR because I was scared it would be down when i actually needed it for rapid healing.

08-08-2007, 11:15 AM	#59
LowfyrWildforge Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 112	It would be kind of silly to shield bash if you didn't have a shield on at all. Since Templars are only supposed to be able to use Bucklers, if you're not using a buckler, you're clearly not using a shield. Whining about this oversight is much more likely to get the equippable round shields made unusable than the round shields added to shield bash. Incidentally, there's really not that big of a difference between the Bulwark of the Brave, and the Festering Flesh Buckler. I expect, by the time t8 rolls around, this round shield equipping nonsense will be finally over.